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2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8

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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#321 » by DG88 » Mon May 26, 2025 1:21 pm

Clutch0z24 wrote:
PhilBlackson wrote:I said it earlier but people really need to simmah down on the Kawhi comparison….Kawhi made an astronomical jump & improvement in his entire offensive game from dribble combinations, to footwork, to post game etc etc and the even bigger difference is he has an almost innate ability to play at his own pace. That’s a VERY rare quality that generally only the truly elite players have…just assuming Coward will add all of that it’s absolutely insane as it’s obv an anomaly.

Again I think a smaller, slower Glen Rice is a far more realistic hope for his potential even though I understand how eerily similar Coward’s jumper looks to Kawhi’s.


No one is comparing Kawhi to anyone the convo is about....In college Kawhi if you actually take the time to watch film on him in college....There are flashes you can see him creating his own shot and getting to his spots and hitting tough shots....For a player like Bryant in college not much film like that exists.....It took Kawhi who showed flashes of it to make a rare curve in becoming what he became....Imagine what it would take for a player like Bryant who has not even showed flashes of it in college what kinda super rare curve it would take....Prolly not gonna happen for him and at 9th i think we can get more than a role player....

Coward compared to Bryant at least showed flashes of it...

On top of that he never showed it in HS either. He struggled to get past his defender and either failed to finish or rise up for the shot.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#322 » by Yallbecrazy » Mon May 26, 2025 1:22 pm

I haven't really weighed in on Kon before, but after taking a deeper dive into prospects with high oBPMs and their supporting casts I am lower on him than consensus. I found that guys who have seemingly put up really good stats, but had other good players around them with good spacing have busted at a much higher rate. I will mention this with a caveat that I haven't come across too many guys in my comparisons that shot >91% from the free throw line which is why I'm not super down on him.

He has a lot of great metrics, but he had guards and other wings playing with him that all shot nearly 40% from 3 (team as a whole shot 39%!), had a 7'2 big with excellent touch around the rim (I'm low on Malauch, but he will always demand defensive attention). He was pretty much never initiating offense against the other team's best wing defender and was never top of the scouting report either. He had excellent point guard play as well with Proctor and Evans, and even the 3rd wing in Sion James was really good too.

The ACC was also really bad this season, the worst it has ever been in my lifetime and CONSIDERABLY worse than the big 12 which was the next weakest major conference.
(edit: forgot about the Big East which was also significantly better than the ACC last year)


I can't write him off as the stats are really good, but I also can't put full faith in those stats projecting him as an offensive weapon in the NBA either.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#323 » by wegotthabeet » Mon May 26, 2025 1:50 pm

Our fan base has the pick down to Bryant vs Coward. Seems about right.

Flagg
Harper
Bailey
Edgecombe
Tre
Kon
Maluach
Fears

Aside from one of the top 8 guys falling who else is a real option at 9? Queen, Egor, Jak? Or did all of them fall off too much? Who else am I missing?
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#324 » by dohboy_24 » Mon May 26, 2025 2:08 pm

mademan wrote:I can get behind other prospects, but im against not drafting Coward over his age. He's shown a propensity for great improvement and ill take that over a hope and a wish on a 19 year old.


Other than putting up more assists and blocks than last season at Eastern Washington, what great improvements are you talking about?

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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#325 » by DreamTeam09 » Mon May 26, 2025 2:08 pm

wegotthabeet wrote:Our fan base has the pick down to Bryant vs Coward. Seems about right.

Flagg
Harper
Bailey
Edgecombe
Tre
Kon
Maluach
Fears

Aside from one of the top 8 guys falling who else is a real option at 9? Queen, Egor, Jak? Or did all of them fall off too much? Who else am I missing?


I'm hoping Queen goes before Khaman and then he falls to us at 9. I'd go with Noa before I go with Carter Bryant or Coward. This board loved the mystery box so why on earth are we stopping that with Noa now all of a sudden. At least Noa has played NBA comp & is playing professionally as we speak. Is long enough to impact the game without the basketball.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#326 » by Jerry Lucas » Mon May 26, 2025 2:21 pm

WuTang_OG wrote:https://hoopshype.com/lists/aggregate-2025-nba-mock-draft-6-0-post-combine-scouting-and-intel/

It's only been 2 weeks since Aggregate 5.0, but a lot changed from 5.0 to 6.0. Going to update my tier list again as well (link to previous list: https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=118532108#p118532108).


NOTE: These rankings reflect the composite score of 10 mock drafts (ESPN, CBS Sports, The Athletic, Bleacher Report, Babcock Hoops, USA Today, NBAdraft.net, SB Nation and FTW) to get a feel for the overall consensus. It’s not our opinion.


Tier 1) Will not be available at Pick #9 (Worst rank no lower than 8):
Cooper Flagg
Dylan Harper

Ace Bailey
VJ Edgecombe
Jeremiah Fears


Tier 2) Could be available at Pick #9 but not guaranteed (Best rank no lower than 8 and Worst rank is lower than 8):
Tre Johnson
Kon Knueppel
Khaman Maluach
Derik Queen
Collin Murray-Boyles

Egor Demin

Tier 3) Almost certainly will be available at Pick #9 (Best rank is 9):
Kasparas Jakucionis
Noa Essengue
Nolan Traore

Tier 4) Other Masai-type FRPs that are probably mocked too low to be realistic options at Pick #9 (Best rank is lower than 9):
Asa Newell (Best rank is 10)
Jase Richardson (Best rank is 12)
Adou Thiero (Best rank is 23)

I highlighted names in green if they produced like Masai-type FRPs, and red if they did not produce like Masai-type FRPs. The non-highlighted names I'm unsure about. For any non-NCAA prospect, I can't evaluate with any degree of confidence because these Masai-type FRP queries only work with NCAA prospects.
My Masai/Bobby-type FRP Barttorvik queries: 4/4, zero misses

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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#327 » by dohboy_24 » Mon May 26, 2025 2:34 pm

S.W.A.N wrote:
this whole conversation is wierd and pointless.

A covid year and now NIL money are going to change all the age dynamics.

Anyone looking at his age is looking at the wrong things


Ok, so all else being equal, the age difference and between Cedric Coward and Carter Bryant and the number of games they've played throughout their careers so far is not a factor of consideration when scouting them?

Cedric is currently 21 and will turn 22 before the season begins. In high school, he played 23 games as a junior on the varsity team and 19 games as a senior. In college, he played 24 games at Williamette as a freshmen, 34 games at Eastern Washington as a sophomore, 32 games as a junior, and 6 games as a senior attending Washington State.

Throughout his high school and college career, Coward has played a total of 138 games and while I can understand the allure of him being a late bloomer who could develop into something more than just a rotational player in the league - I don't see anything that would suggest he could become an all-star, all-NBA, or even the 2nd option on a championship contending team after a few years of experience in the NBA.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#328 » by billy_hoyle » Mon May 26, 2025 2:45 pm

dohboy_24 wrote:
Mark_83 wrote:
dohboy_24 wrote:Before next season starts, Cedric Coward will be 22 years old. He played 2 seasons (66 games) at Eastern Washington (Big Sky Conference) and 1 season (6 games) at Washington State (West Coast Conference).

Can you or anyone else on this board name at least ten (10) players who played against sub-par competition in weak college conferences who were 22 years old before their rookie season began that have earned at least one (1) All-Star appearance OR one (1) All-NBA team nomination OR one (1) All-Defense team nomination OR one (1) end of season NBA award (Most Improved Player, Sixth Man of the Year, Defensive Player of the Year, Most Valuable Player) during their career?

Here's at least 14:

Larry Johnson
John Starks
Derrick White
Damian Lillard
Danny Granger
Bruce Bowen
Ben Wallace
Kyle Korver
George Hill
C.J. McCollum
Paul Millsap
Pascal Siakam
Robert Convington
Hassan Whiteside

OK... so during the past 37 drafts only 14 of the more than 2,000 players drafted fit the criteria.

Since 1988, that's still less than 1% of the players drafted.

How many of those players were drafted in the lottery?

LJ
Lillard
McCullom

That's only 3 of the more than 2,000 players drafted, or a 1 in 666 chance that a player aged 22 years or older before the season starts who played in a weak conference is able to achieve those accolades.

How much are you willing to bet that Cedric Coward is going to become the fourth?


Wasn't Steve Nash also 22?

I'm not sure this guy's list is all that exhaustive if bloody Nash - the Canadian 2xMVP didn't make the list.

Drafted just outside the lottery btw.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#329 » by God Squad » Mon May 26, 2025 2:53 pm

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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#330 » by God Squad » Mon May 26, 2025 2:59 pm

WuTang_OG wrote:The similarities between Cedric's and JDub's games, measurements, both played almost same amount of college games (72,84jwill) and how they rose up the draft boards is actually pretty interesting

if we do pick Cedric, you can only hope his impact will be close to what JDub is doing in the NBA


I like Ced's measurements and shooting... But C'mon, his games resemble this?


I hate the Jdub comparison, and it seems kinda lazy due to lotto rise. Dubs' game was far more advanced, especially as a creator and initiator.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#331 » by ill-Will03 » Mon May 26, 2025 3:00 pm

dohboy_24 wrote:
S.W.A.N wrote:
this whole conversation is wierd and pointless.

A covid year and now NIL money are going to change all the age dynamics.

Anyone looking at his age is looking at the wrong things


Ok, so all else being equal, the age difference and between Cedric Coward and Carter Bryant and the number of games they've played throughout their careers so far is not a factor of consideration when scouting them?

Cedric is currently 21 and will turn 22 before the season begins. In high school, he played 23 games as a junior on the varsity team and 19 games as a senior. In college, he played 24 games at Williamette as a freshmen, 34 games at Eastern Washington as a sophomore, 32 games as a junior, and 6 games as a senior attending Washington State.

Throughout his high school and college career, Coward has played a total of 138 games and while I can understand the allure of him being a late bloomer who could develop into something more than just a rotational player in the league - I don't see anything that would suggest he could become an all-star, all-NBA, or even the 2nd option on a championship contending team after a few years of experience in the NBA.



And you’re saying that you can see Carter Bryant becoming any of those things?

Seems to me you just keep moving the goal post tbh lol
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#332 » by WuTang_CMB » Mon May 26, 2025 3:12 pm

God Squad wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:The similarities between Cedric's and JDub's games, measurements, both played almost same amount of college games (72,84jwill) and how they rose up the draft boards is actually pretty interesting

if we do pick Cedric, you can only hope his impact will be close to what JDub is doing in the NBA


I like Ced's measurements and shooting... But C'mon, his games resemble this?


I hate the Jdub comparison, and it seems kinda lazy due to lotto rise. Dubs' game was far more advanced, especially as a creator and initiator.


maybe, maybe not. JDub is clearly more talented but they do have similarities. Jdub has better creation cuz his handle is better where I think Cedric's biggest swing would need to be improving that aspect cuz it will open up his whole game. But the size, shot, age are on par.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#333 » by dohboy_24 » Mon May 26, 2025 3:13 pm

Carter Bryant Scouting Reports:





If you look at the teams left in the NBA Finals, Carter Bryant has the skills and abilities to play the same or similar role as Aaron Nesmith, Bennedict Mathurin, Nickeil Alexander-Walker, Jaden McDaniels, Mikal Bridges, OG Anunoby, Lu Dort, or Aaron Wiggins.

Alongside IQ, RJ, BI3 and Scottie as the primary offensive weapons in the starting lineup and Dick/Walter/Agbaji as the scorers off the bench, Bryant would fit well with this group next season and still have lots of room to grow and develop into the same, or similar role as the players noted above.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#334 » by God Squad » Mon May 26, 2025 3:14 pm

wegotthabeet wrote:Our fan base has the pick down to Bryant vs Coward. Seems about right.

Flagg
Harper
Bailey
Edgecombe
Tre
Kon
Maluach
Fears

Aside from one of the top 8 guys falling who else is a real option at 9? Queen, Egor, Jak? Or did all of them fall off too much? Who else am I missing?

Nope.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#335 » by arbsn » Mon May 26, 2025 3:22 pm

I'm a big no to Bryant or Coward. I have them in the Maluach range. Neither strike me as guys who could become elite NBA players. I'd way rather go with Kasparas, Egor, Jace Richardson.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#336 » by DG88 » Mon May 26, 2025 3:30 pm

I still think getting another creator on the team would be beneficial to the half court offense. Still need to see what BI brings to the table. Still I wouldn't be drafting for fit/need. It should always be best talent available to us. Regardless of position.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#337 » by God Squad » Mon May 26, 2025 3:34 pm

DG88 wrote:I still think getting another creator on the team would be beneficial to the half court offense. Still need to see what BI brings to the table. Still I wouldn't be drafting for fit/need. It should always be best talent available to us. Regardless of position.

Question. What does BPA mean to you? The player who falls from the top 8? The player "You" think has the highest ceiling? Or a mix of ceiling/production?

IMO it's all subjective, unless it's clearly obvious.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#338 » by dohboy_24 » Mon May 26, 2025 3:41 pm

ill-Will03 wrote:
And you’re saying that you can see Carter Bryant becoming any of those things?

Seems to me you just keep moving the goal post tbh lol


Carter Bryant's HS team during his senior year had a 21-14 record and was ranked #37 in the state of California.
Coward's HS team (senior year) had a 12-7 record and was ranked #152 in the state of California.

Carter Bryant was a 5-star recruit. Cedric Coward was not.
Carter Bryant was a McDonald's All-American. Cedric Coward was not.
Carter Bryant (#20) was ranked in the ESPN100 prior to attending college. Cedric Coward was not.

At 19 years old, Carter Bryant was a valuable and contributing member of an Arizona Wildcat team that made it to the Sweet Sixteen.

At 19 years old, Cedric Coward was playing at Williamette (D3) and while he was named the Northwest Conference Freshman of the Year, his team finished with a 6-18 record and didn't make it past the regular season.

Carter Bryant at 19 years old is a much better player than Cedric Coward was at the same age and in 3 years, he will be a much better player than Cedric Coward is today.

Whether or not he can become any of those things or not, Carter Bryant has been a better prospect than Cedric Coward was at the same age during every stage of his development and there is absolutely no convincing evidence to suggest that Cedric Coward will somehow eclipse him during the next few years to become a better NBA player.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#339 » by Thaddy » Mon May 26, 2025 3:41 pm

God Squad wrote:
DG88 wrote:I still think getting another creator on the team would be beneficial to the half court offense. Still need to see what BI brings to the table. Still I wouldn't be drafting for fit/need. It should always be best talent available to us. Regardless of position.

Question. What does BPA mean to you? The player who falls from the top 8? The player "You" think has the highest ceiling? Or a mix of ceiling/production?

IMO it's all subjective, unless it's clearly obvious.

BPA would be the player with the most outlier skill. Whether that's size/burst (Fears), size/shooting (Fleming? Maluach?), etc.

In our range I would take a player that drops. See if there's some fire behind him to prove the teams that passed on him wrong. If it's Kon I'd probably pass and look at the best player from the next tier of prospects.

The safest pick would probably be Fleming. Him and Poeltl have the same standing reach. We'd essentially have two Cs on the floor if we wanted with the versatility to finally player 5 out.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#340 » by DreamTeam09 » Mon May 26, 2025 3:44 pm

God Squad wrote:
DG88 wrote:I still think getting another creator on the team would be beneficial to the half court offense. Still need to see what BI brings to the table. Still I wouldn't be drafting for fit/need. It should always be best talent available to us. Regardless of position.

Question. What does BPA mean to you? The player who falls from the top 8? The player "You" think has the highest ceiling? Or a mix of ceiling/production?

IMO it's all subjective, unless it's clearly obvious.


Yeah that saying is so antiquated now. Whoever they select will be the BPA to them, and I'm sure they will fit a need regardless.
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