2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8

[Mark_83]

This is as nuanced and well-articulated an analysis of draft evaluation as I've watched in a while. I don't necessarily agree with all the rankings, but the process behind them is transparent, thoughtful, and clearly grounded in sound reasoning and a strong grasp of player development, role projection, context of production, and long-term upside.

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[Buff]

My point is...

Jase is better at Self creating, Shots off the dribble, Ball handling, Attacking the rim, Getting to the FT line, Finishing around the basket, Passing, Foot work, Breaking defenders down, 3 Point shooting, 3 Point % , While also not being far behind on the defensive end compared to Bryant (Jase is still a pretty great defender despite his size he is very capable of defending PGs/SGs at an elite level)....Jase just has the superior game overall...

Jase is better at all that than OG. And is 6'0. Sorry, I keep OG over... whos Jase? JRich?

Same could be said about Coward since Coward showed he can get to his spots on the floor and make shots....Bryant in college had a very limited Role...With higher usage he could get worse....Which means he might be a utility player his whole career....At 9th for me personally id take the swing on a player who has more overall skills on the basketball court because them are the players that usually break out to being more than just a role player...

Well, you know the problem with taking swings, it is very easy to miss. Now regarding usage, if you draft him is not to make it into a star, like I said, can your corners and defend their best player and that is one hell of a player (assuming he doesn't improve at all). With the high upside swing at an historically weak #1 you may just blow it. Get the 6'0 non-pg or some frenchie that you hope is better than the #1 pick last year... that stuff get people fired.

But again, I don't pretend to be right but I take OG over any small guard outside the top 5.

[S.W.A.N]

And you’re saying that you can see Carter Bryant becoming any of those things?

Seems to me you just keep moving the goal post tbh lol

Carter Bryant's HS team during his senior year had a 21-14 record and was ranked #37 in the state of California.
Coward's HS team (senior year) had a 12-7 record and was ranked #152 in the state of California.

Carter Bryant was a 5-star recruit. Cedric Coward was not.
Carter Bryant was a McDonald's All-American. Cedric Coward was not.
Carter Bryant (#20) was ranked in the ESPN100 prior to attending college. Cedric Coward was not.

At 19 years old, Carter Bryant was a valuable and contributing member of an Arizona Wildcat team that made it to the Sweet Sixteen.

At 19 years old, Cedric Coward was playing at Williamette (D3) and while he was named the Northwest Conference Freshman of the Year, his team finished with a 6-18 record and didn't make it past the regular season.

Carter Bryant at 19 years old is a much better player than Cedric Coward was at the same age and in 3 years, he will be a much better player than Cedric Coward is today.

Whether or not he can become any of those things or not, Carter Bryant has been a better prospect than Cedric Coward was at the same age during every stage of his development and there is absolutely no convincing evidence to suggest that Cedric Coward will somehow eclipse him during the next few years to become a better NBA player.

I actually prefer Carter but you are wrong. Statistically Coward is the better player this year. His shooting and passing is straight up better.

His college stats are impressive. His shooting is solid bordering on elite and it didn't drop off going to a higher level of competition. He's got the 3 and d potential that every team is looking for.

I think he needs to be in the conversation at 9.

[mademan]

I can get behind other prospects, but im against not drafting Coward over his age. He's shown a propensity for great improvement and ill take that over a hope and a wish on a 19 year old.

Other than putting up more assists and blocks than last season at Eastern Washington, what great improvements are you talking about?

From starting 2 game and playing low minutes to being able to scale up and keep his efficiency. He was doing the same this season as well through 6 games.

Guards that take the amount of jumpers he does arent supposed to be this efficient. He genuinely breaks the mold

[Dalek]

While taking a big man like KM is an obvious selection at 9, many predict he will be gone by then. I am actually believing that the next level tiers of bigs are not worth it at 9. Queen is already 21 and you wonder how much room he has to improve. Sorber is my favorite but he had a major foot injury and is a non-stretch big. Raynaud and Wolf just don't make sense being taken this high.

Wings are weaker in this class without a doubt. The fact we are debating Cedric Coward a guy who played 6 games and is a div 3 guy shows there is a huge gap from Cooper and the rest.

That leaves guards, and to me I like Jase Richardson's game on paper, but in reexamining him he is a pretty low volume scorer and playmaker. He is going to be a really good back-up, but I struggle seeing him start because of his size. It seems like too many things have to break right for him to be effective.

This leaves two strong options at 9 for me: Jeremiah Fears and Kasparas Jakucionis. Both have exciting PG style with excellent handle, and creation ability. I am leaning towards Jak because he is around 6'6" / 205 lbs and has had hot streaks with outside shooting and his 84% FT mark and history playing in Europe which makes me think he has had more high level instruction and physically he is more ready for the NBA.

He definitely has the wanna be Luka-vibe to his game, but Darko can iron him out to making smarter plays and really use his strength which is playing in pick and roll. Also, given his size he can play off-guard pretty easily.

Biggest difference to me is 3P rate. KJ 54/170 (32%) vs Fears 38/134 (28%). That is 36 less shots from three on a lower percentage. Also for what its worth KJ outperformed Fears on agility tests. KJ (14-27) also doubled Fears (7-27) in 3P side shooting drills at the combine.

[WuTang_OG]

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[PhilBlackson]

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I highly, highly doubt the Nets reach on Demin that much when they can very likely get him with their next pick and/or combine their next one with one of the other 2 to move up a couple spots but secure a better player at 8 ie/ Jak, Kon or Malauch.

[DG88]

I still think getting another creator on the team would be beneficial to the half court offense. Still need to see what BI brings to the table. Still I wouldn't be drafting for fit/need. It should always be best talent available to us. Regardless of position.

Question. What does BPA mean to you? The player who falls from the top 8? The player "You" think has the highest ceiling? Or a mix of ceiling/production?

IMO it's all subjective, unless it's clearly obvious.

For me it's the most talented prospect. It could be someone who falls or someone who is near our pick that we take. Again all this is subjective and it comes down to who the FO believes will grow into a really good player in the future.

[Rapsfan07]

Really hoping either New Orleans or Brooklyn fall in love with Maluach and takes him at #7 or #8.

We should stay at #9 if we're going to roll the dice on Kasp. Otherwise, we might look at moving down with ATL for #13 + #22.

Use #13 on Fleming and #22 on Coward if he's down there.

[dohboy_24]

At 19 years old, Carter Bryant was a valuable and contributing member of an Arizona Wildcat team that made it to the Sweet Sixteen.

At 19 years old, Cedric Coward was playing at Williamette (D3) and while he was named the Northwest Conference Freshman of the Year, his team finished with a 6-18 record and didn't make it past the regular season.

Carter Bryant at 19 years old is a much better player than Cedric Coward was at the same age and in 3 years, he will be a much better player than Cedric Coward is today.

Whether or not he can become any of those things or not, Carter Bryant has been a better prospect than Cedric Coward was at the same age during every stage of his development and there is absolutely no convincing evidence to suggest that Cedric Coward will somehow eclipse him during the next few years to become a better NBA player.

I actually prefer Carter but you are wrong. Statistically Coward is the better player this year. His shooting and passing is straight up better.

His college stats are impressive. His shooting is solid bordering on elite and it didn't drop off going to a higher level of competition. He's got the 3 and d potential that every team is looking for.

Cedric Coward was born on September 11, 2003. Carter Bryant was born on November 26, 2005.

Bryant was 19 years old this year. Cedric Coward was not the same age as him this year. He's 26 months older.

Before entering college as a freshman, Cedric Coward was not a McDonald's All-American.
Before entering college as a freshman, Cedric Coward was not a 5-star recruit.
Before entering college as a freshman, Cedric Coward was not ranked in the ESPN100.

Before entering college as a freshman, Carter Bryant was a much better prospect than Cedric Coward.

If you want to compare them at the same age, you would need to compare what Carter Bryant did this year to Cedric Coward's 2021 season at Williamette (D3), not his season this year at Washington State or even last year at Eastern Washington when he played a full season.

Before he plays his first game as a rookie this season, Cedric Coward will be 22 years old. Carter Bryant won't be 22 years old until Nov 26, 2027.

By that time, Carter Bryant will have just entered his third season in the NBA.

After two (2) full years of playing in the NBA and three (3) off-seasons to work on his development with an NBA team and staff who've committed millions of dollars to his development, who do you believe will be the better player - Cedric Coward as he is today or that future version of Carter Bryant?

[Indeed]

You have to look at film....Rather than the %s.....Film shows that he shows the ability to create his own shot in college....If you show flashes of it at the lower levels means it has a good chance to translate to the NBA.....Guys like Noa/Bryant have not shown they can do these things at the lower level (College) On film....It would take a wild development curve for a player who can't do it in college to all of sudden do it in the NBA is what im saying....Kawhi showed flashes of it in college ....He was not just a 3&D guy....Thats why it developed in the NBA to where he is a very good self creator now....

I looked at both the film you posted, but I cannot claim Leonard can create his own shot on his first year. Second year he can get to his spot, but that was a low percentage shot (I am unsure if back in the day that would be acceptable, but certainly not making a lot of it). He might showed some flashes getting into his spot, but I can't say he created his shot.

Meanwhile, Leonard wasn't even a 3&D in his first year, only shooting 20% from 3.

I guess what im saying is on film you can clearly see a player who is much more than just a 3&D guy....Hes a player who showed flashes of being a good player at 3 levels....Bryant for example has not shown he can put the ball on the floor and create for himself, He also is very poor at getting to the rim....Hes athletic sure ....But he lacks alot of basketball skills to be anything more than a corner 3 point shooter/defender....OG even had more ability to attack the rim in his college season...

I just think at 9 there will be better players to choose from than a utility player....I think there are a few players avail that have much more skills all around.

I disagree, I do not see more from Leonard, mainly just D on his first year, while his second year was not a good player with only 51% TS, more or less just project to be a 3&D. Furthermore, I never compare Bryant to Leonard.

Bryant to me is Michael Porter Jr., or maybe Klay Thompson lite, said it many times. I think he is better than Anunoby on offense, while not as elite on defense.

As for Leonard comparison, that would be Adou Thiero or Mackenzie Mgbako, but they are unlikely to reach the level or Leonard, and Leonard is a bit of outlier as well, particularly, with his measurement being better.

[mademan]

Now that it looks more and more like we're drafting a wing (Queen's measurements were awful and KM will probably be gone as an upside pick, and if he isnt, the red flags probably scare us away too), its gonna cause a real glut. Battle/Dick/RJ/Ingram/JKW/9th pick.....thats a lot of wings and not a lot of minutes. I dunno how you carry all of them into the RS

[tsherkin]

Now that it looks more and more like we're drafting a wing (Queen's measurements were awful and KM will probably be gone as an upside pick, and if he isnt, the red flags probably scare us away too), its gonna cause a real glut. Battle/Dick/RJ/Ingram/JKW/9th pick.....thats a lot of wings and not a lot of minutes. I dunno how you carry all of them into the RS

I'm hopeful that we don't... there are no minutes for a wing unless we then turn around and trade a bunch of guys. So I guess maybe there's that, but still. We need to focus less on these 6'6 - 6'9 dudes and try to bolster our backcourt and center position.

[DG88]

I'm going to look back into Kasparas Jakucionis again. I loved him at the beginning of the college season but he wasn't the same after his injury. He's another guy I like in our range.

[JCP11]

At 19 years old, Carter Bryant was a valuable and contributing member of an Arizona Wildcat team that made it to the Sweet Sixteen.

At 19 years old, Cedric Coward was playing at Williamette (D3) and while he was named the Northwest Conference Freshman of the Year, his team finished with a 6-18 record and didn't make it past the regular season.

Carter Bryant at 19 years old is a much better player than Cedric Coward was at the same age and in 3 years, he will be a much better player than Cedric Coward is today.

Whether or not he can become any of those things or not, Carter Bryant has been a better prospect than Cedric Coward was at the same age during every stage of his development and there is absolutely no convincing evidence to suggest that Cedric Coward will somehow eclipse him during the next few years to become a better NBA player.

I actually prefer Carter but you are wrong. Statistically Coward is the better player this year. His shooting and passing is straight up better.

His college stats are impressive. His shooting is solid bordering on elite and it didn't drop off going to a higher level of competition. He's got the 3 and d potential that every team is looking for.

Cedric Coward was born on September 11, 2003. Carter Bryant was born on November 26, 2005.

Bryant was 19 years old this year. Cedric Coward was not the same age as him this year. He's 26 months older.

Before entering college as a freshman, Cedric Coward was not a McDonald's All-American.
Before entering college as a freshman, Cedric Coward was not a 5-star recruit.
Before entering college as a freshman, Cedric Coward was not ranked in the ESPN100.

Before entering college as a freshman, Carter Bryant was a much better prospect than Cedric Coward.

If you want to compare them at the same age, you would need to compare what Carter Bryant did this year to Cedric Coward's 2021 season at Williamette (D3), not his season this year at Washington State or even last year at Eastern Washington when he played a full season.

Before he plays his first game as a rookie this season, Cedric Coward will be 22 years old. Carter Bryant won't be 22 years old until Nov 26, 2027.

By that time, Carter Bryant will have just entered his third season in the NBA.

After two (2) full years of playing in the NBA and three (3) off-seasons to work on his development with an NBA team and staff who've committed millions of dollars to his development, who do you believe will be the better player - Cedric Coward as he is today or that future version of Carter Bryant?

Sometimes there's outliers and as an organization it's your job to spot them. Coward is a rare case of late bloomers who has all the measurables you want. He already showed he has an incredible work ethic to come from where he was to get to this point.

One important thing you can base yourself on to evaluate both when you have two different paths like that is when they get together in a setting like the combine. Coward showed he's right on par with the best athletes in the draft so that right there bridges the gap a bit. He's been through a lot of adversity and came out of it better and stronger than ever. Sometimes that has more value than the guy who's been told he'd make it all along. Bryant has a loooong way to go while Coward has already proven he will do whatever it takes to get where he wants to go.

I like both guys mentality but as a former athlete myself I have a soft spot for guys like Coward, he worked his butt off to get there and he's not done. You can't teach 7'2 wingspan at 6'6, his strength and his desire to get better. I agree chances are he will fail but if he made it this far there's also a chance he's the next Scottie Pippen.

[mademan]

Now that it looks more and more like we're drafting a wing (Queen's measurements were awful and KM will probably be gone as an upside pick, and if he isnt, the red flags probably scare us away too), its gonna cause a real glut. Battle/Dick/RJ/Ingram/JKW/9th pick.....thats a lot of wings and not a lot of minutes. I dunno how you carry all of them into the RS

I'm hopeful that we don't... there are no minutes for a wing unless we then turn around and trade a bunch of guys. So I guess maybe there's that, but still. We need to focus less on these 6'6 - 6'9 dudes and try to bolster our backcourt and center position.

It feels like the only guy in our range that isnt a wing is Kasp and maybe Jase? All the other prospects are 6'6-69 SG-PF

[Indeed]

I still think getting another creator on the team would be beneficial to the half court offense. Still need to see what BI brings to the table. Still I wouldn't be drafting for fit/need. It should always be best talent available to us. Regardless of position.

Question. What does BPA mean to you? The player who falls from the top 8? The player "You" think has the highest ceiling? Or a mix of ceiling/production?

IMO it's all subjective, unless it's clearly obvious.

It might be even complicated than what you explained.
Best is based on transferable skills (including potential / flashes) and categorize them by position, and separate them into tiers.
For example, a bad rebounder, if he is a guard, it would weight less, but if he is a big (eg. Maluach), it would weight more. Rebounding is one important skill that transfer very well to the NBA. So if he is a bad rebound at a rebounding position, his tier rank would be lower.

Afterall, you may get a tier list, and different positions maybe on the same tier, then you based on fit (fit our system first, than fit our development program, than fit our players).

[tsherkin]

Now that it looks more and more like we're drafting a wing (Queen's measurements were awful and KM will probably be gone as an upside pick, and if he isnt, the red flags probably scare us away too), its gonna cause a real glut. Battle/Dick/RJ/Ingram/JKW/9th pick.....thats a lot of wings and not a lot of minutes. I dunno how you carry all of them into the RS

I'm hopeful that we don't... there are no minutes for a wing unless we then turn around and trade a bunch of guys. So I guess maybe there's that, but still. We need to focus less on these 6'6 - 6'9 dudes and try to bolster our backcourt and center position.

It feels like the only guy in our range that isnt a wing is Kasp and maybe Jase? All the other prospects are 6'6-69 SG-PF

But we can move the pick, or maybe reach. Or perhaps take a wing with intent to package them with others to address the glut? There are some options.

[PushDaRock]

Now that it looks more and more like we're drafting a wing (Queen's measurements were awful and KM will probably be gone as an upside pick, and if he isnt, the red flags probably scare us away too), its gonna cause a real glut. Battle/Dick/RJ/Ingram/JKW/9th pick.....thats a lot of wings and not a lot of minutes. I dunno how you carry all of them into the RS

I'm hopeful that we don't... there are no minutes for a wing unless we then turn around and trade a bunch of guys. So I guess maybe there's that, but still. We need to focus less on these 6'6 - 6'9 dudes and try to bolster our backcourt and center position.

I think it's more likely than not that whoever we take at #9 is not in the rotation on day 1. I think that's likely the case regardless of position.

[Clutch0z24]

Now that it looks more and more like we're drafting a wing (Queen's measurements were awful and KM will probably be gone as an upside pick, and if he isnt, the red flags probably scare us away too), its gonna cause a real glut. Battle/Dick/RJ/Ingram/JKW/9th pick.....thats a lot of wings and not a lot of minutes. I dunno how you carry all of them into the RS

There is no evidence that we are more likely to draft a wing....We have no idea what Masai is thinking....There are no reports of anything....This thread is all about people talking about their personal favs and their personal do not drafts.....Masai could actually be very very high on both Maluach & Queen....He scouted Queen multiple times in games which Queen had big games, Maluach and Masai obv have a personal connection....

There is no reason to rule them out as potential picks as of today considering there are no reports saying they are ruling them out...Just because a realgm board are not high on them doesn't mean Masai is agreeing .....Barnes wasn't the fav at 4 and yet Masai picked him...