ImageImageImageImageImage

PG: Saved By The KAT

Moderators: mpharris36, j4remi, HerSports85, NoLayupRule, GONYK, Jeff Van Gully, dakomish23, Deeeez Knicks

User avatar
Deeeez Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 49,280
And1: 55,208
Joined: Nov 12, 2004

Re: PG: Saved By The KAT 

Post#801 » by Deeeez Knicks » Mon May 26, 2025 6:14 pm

The KnicksFix wrote:There’s a reason why shamet deuce and wright worked with KAT. Shamet deuce and wright get over the pick. They get skinny and rotate quickly so the pacers can’t target the switch on KAT. That’s why it worked.

AND hart or OG were back there to help


That's a key part of it. Bench lineup and fight over the screens so they can't isolate KAT.
Mavs
C: Horford | Goga | Paul Reed |
PF: Lauri Markkanen | Randle | Tucker
SF: Trey Murphy | Trent | Anderson | Simone
SG: Vassell | Trent | Livingston
PG: Spida | Mann | Deuce
User avatar
Chanel Bomber
RealGM
Posts: 23,902
And1: 42,015
Joined: Sep 20, 2018
 

Re: PG: Saved By The KAT 

Post#802 » by Chanel Bomber » Mon May 26, 2025 6:17 pm

K_ick_God wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:The stretch where Indy went on a run was mostly self inflicted. Bad turnovers led to some easy buckets and open looks. Brunson looked way off. We really didn't even play that well in this one.

Need to put together a complete 48min game in the next one. Turnovers are so key cause that's when Indy gets out and runs


Won one we played poorly in and lost one we played well in

Both times JB came out, G1 and G3, we went on runs

This episode is excellent and they mention how the Knicks defense held up in the 4th quarter with KAT at the 5 without Mitch and with Brunson on the bench.



This isn't to take a shot at Brunson but while he's our best player, he's also our worst defender. He fights valiantly, and he can hold his own guarding one-on-one, but he's a non-entity against an offense that moves the ball like Indiana. He simply doesn't have the size or the length to disrupt the passing lanes or contest shots when the Knicks are in rotation.

Jalen's defense is so bad in this series - and again, this isn't meant as a criticism - that I think Thibs has to be pragmatic with his minutes. He needs to make offense-defense substitutions based on the situation, and if needed bench Brunson for periods of the game.

Of course, in a one-possession game you want him on the floor to close, but I think there's a case to be made for benching him to protect a lead.
ctorres
RealGM
Posts: 17,672
And1: 5,886
Joined: Jun 04, 2005

Re: PG: Saved By The KAT 

Post#803 » by ctorres » Mon May 26, 2025 6:18 pm

NiceLikeChrist wrote:
F N 11 wrote:Marcus Morris says Thibs played Delon and Shamet because he had to. will be interesting to see if he goes back to them. Also says Towns had towns to work without Brunson very interesting. Maybe go back to Kat with bench so we can slit Brunson and Kat with defenders.

everyone who follows the team knows that thibs played them because guys were in foul trouble and he had no other choice. that's usually how it happens.

but usually once he stumbles and bumbles into something that works he is willing to try it again next game on his own accord. so hopefully they see the floor tomorrow night.


I just hope he staggers them.

He doesn't have to play an all bench lineup. We got four guys in Brunson, Mikal, OG, and KAT who could be the focal point on offense playing alongside 4 bench players.
Calinks
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Posts: 50,367
And1: 17,295
Joined: Mar 29, 2006
   

Re: PG: Saved By The KAT 

Post#804 » by Calinks » Mon May 26, 2025 6:23 pm

People worry too much about this team. This is year one of a rebuilding with a new roster, and I don't think the Knicks have figured out how to best use these guys.

You are even using KAT to his full potential. The drop is a horrible scheme for him, and on offense I don't think the spots he get used in are maximized at all. They weren't in Minnesota either since the Gobert trade.

This guy has a bag that reaches deep. As time goes on the roster gets closer and the coaches will figure out how to optimize what they have. The Knicks are just going to get better.

This is an incredible run for year 1. People need to realize that. Every other team in the playoffs right now has had a more cohesive roster they have been improving for 2-5 years. None of them have made as many key changes as the Knicks.
When luck shuts the door skill comes in through the window.
User avatar
Deeeez Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 49,280
And1: 55,208
Joined: Nov 12, 2004

Re: PG: Saved By The KAT 

Post#805 » by Deeeez Knicks » Mon May 26, 2025 6:26 pm

Chanel Bomber wrote:
K_ick_God wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:The stretch where Indy went on a run was mostly self inflicted. Bad turnovers led to some easy buckets and open looks. Brunson looked way off. We really didn't even play that well in this one.

Need to put together a complete 48min game in the next one. Turnovers are so key cause that's when Indy gets out and runs


Won one we played poorly in and lost one we played well in

Both times JB came out, G1 and G3, we went on runs

This episode is excellent and they mention how the Knicks defense held up in the 4th quarter with KAT at the 5 without Mitch and with Brunson on the bench.



This isn't to take a shot at Brunson but while he's our best player, he's also our worst defender. He fights valiantly, and he can hold his own guarding one-on-one, but he's a non-entity against an offense that moves the ball like Indiana. He simply doesn't have the size or the length to disrupt the passing lanes or contest shots when the Knicks are in rotation.

Jalen's defense is so bad in this series - and again, this isn't meant as a criticism - that I think Thibs has to be pragmatic with his minutes. He needs to make offense-defense substitutions based on the situation, and if needed bench Brunson for periods of the game.

Of course, in a one-possession game you want him on the floor to close, but I think there's a case to be made for benching him to protect a lead.


I do think his ankle is worst then they are letting on. He's just not moving well on both ends. Can see real pain whenever someone lands on it or he doesn't come down right. He's never been a good defender, but at least could get in front of people for chargers and move better
Mavs
C: Horford | Goga | Paul Reed |
PF: Lauri Markkanen | Randle | Tucker
SF: Trey Murphy | Trent | Anderson | Simone
SG: Vassell | Trent | Livingston
PG: Spida | Mann | Deuce
User avatar
Iron Mantis
RealGM
Posts: 27,201
And1: 27,921
Joined: Aug 12, 2006

Re: PG: Saved By The KAT 

Post#806 » by Iron Mantis » Mon May 26, 2025 6:27 pm

Thibs accidentally getting the W after foul trouble forced him to use the bench he was SURE could never help us win:

Image
Image
User avatar
Capn'O
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 90,445
And1: 110,427
Joined: Dec 16, 2005
Location: Bone Goal
 

Re: PG: Saved By The KAT 

Post#807 » by Capn'O » Mon May 26, 2025 6:28 pm

Chanel Bomber wrote:
K_ick_God wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:The stretch where Indy went on a run was mostly self inflicted. Bad turnovers led to some easy buckets and open looks. Brunson looked way off. We really didn't even play that well in this one.

Need to put together a complete 48min game in the next one. Turnovers are so key cause that's when Indy gets out and runs


Won one we played poorly in and lost one we played well in

Both times JB came out, G1 and G3, we went on runs

This episode is excellent and they mention how the Knicks defense held up in the 4th quarter with KAT at the 5 without Mitch and with Brunson on the bench.



This isn't to take a shot at Brunson but while he's our best player, he's also our worst defender. He fights valiantly, and he can hold his own guarding one-on-one, but he's a non-entity against an offense that moves the ball like Indiana. He simply doesn't have the size or the length to disrupt the passing lanes or contest shots when the Knicks are in rotation.

Jalen's defense is so bad in this series - and again, this isn't meant as a criticism - that I think Thibs has to be pragmatic with his minutes. He needs to make offense-defense substitutions based on the situation, and if needed bench Brunson for periods of the game.

Of course, in a one-possession game you want him on the floor to close, but I think there's a case to be made for benching him to protect a lead.


Should we pull off a miracle, the lessons learned would be very instructive against OKC.
BAF Clippers:
UNDER CONSTRUCTION

:beer:
Clyde_Style
RealGM
Posts: 71,855
And1: 69,930
Joined: Jul 12, 2009

Re: PG: Saved By The KAT 

Post#808 » by Clyde_Style » Mon May 26, 2025 6:34 pm

Iron Mantis wrote:Thibs accidentally getting the W after foul trouble forced him to use the bench he was SURE could never help us win:

Image


:lol: That's perfect :lol:
User avatar
F N 11
RealGM
Posts: 95,125
And1: 67,850
Joined: Jun 27, 2006
Location: Getting over screens with Gusto.
Contact:
 

Re: PG: Saved By The KAT 

Post#809 » by F N 11 » Mon May 26, 2025 6:38 pm

ctorres wrote:
NiceLikeChrist wrote:
F N 11 wrote:Marcus Morris says Thibs played Delon and Shamet because he had to. will be interesting to see if he goes back to them. Also says Towns had towns to work without Brunson very interesting. Maybe go back to Kat with bench so we can slit Brunson and Kat with defenders.

everyone who follows the team knows that thibs played them because guys were in foul trouble and he had no other choice. that's usually how it happens.

but usually once he stumbles and bumbles into something that works he is willing to try it again next game on his own accord. so hopefully they see the floor tomorrow night.


I just hope he staggers them.

He doesn't have to play an all bench lineup. We got four guys in Brunson, Mikal, OG, and KAT who could be the focal point on offense playing alongside 4 bench players.

I have to agree every now and then Thibs stumbles into something that works. He needs to go back to them for perimeter defense. Pacers made it be Known bench defense was the difference. I think if we let mikal and OG stick to Guys we can get off to a better start with Mitch in the paint. The Difference was Mikal could not hit anything during the pacers runs. Deuce made up for that.
CEO of the not trading RJ Club
User avatar
F N 11
RealGM
Posts: 95,125
And1: 67,850
Joined: Jun 27, 2006
Location: Getting over screens with Gusto.
Contact:
 

Re: PG: Saved By The KAT 

Post#810 » by F N 11 » Mon May 26, 2025 6:40 pm

Best thing about this game it uncovered the formula.

Try to get off to a good start with starters. Then surround one of towns and Brunson with defenders.
CEO of the not trading RJ Club
User avatar
Gravy
Head Coach
Posts: 7,055
And1: 9,504
Joined: Jun 25, 2015
     

Re: PG: Saved By The KAT 

Post#811 » by Gravy » Mon May 26, 2025 6:42 pm

All time Top 3 Knicks coach

Read on Twitter
User avatar
Chanel Bomber
RealGM
Posts: 23,902
And1: 42,015
Joined: Sep 20, 2018
 

Re: PG: Saved By The KAT 

Post#812 » by Chanel Bomber » Mon May 26, 2025 6:51 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:
K_ick_God wrote:
Won one we played poorly in and lost one we played well in

Both times JB came out, G1 and G3, we went on runs

This episode is excellent and they mention how the Knicks defense held up in the 4th quarter with KAT at the 5 without Mitch and with Brunson on the bench.



This isn't to take a shot at Brunson but while he's our best player, he's also our worst defender. He fights valiantly, and he can hold his own guarding one-on-one, but he's a non-entity against an offense that moves the ball like Indiana. He simply doesn't have the size or the length to disrupt the passing lanes or contest shots when the Knicks are in rotation.

Jalen's defense is so bad in this series - and again, this isn't meant as a criticism - that I think Thibs has to be pragmatic with his minutes. He needs to make offense-defense substitutions based on the situation, and if needed bench Brunson for periods of the game.

Of course, in a one-possession game you want him on the floor to close, but I think there's a case to be made for benching him to protect a lead.


I do think his ankle is worst then they are letting on. He's just not moving well on both ends. Can see real pain whenever someone lands on it or he doesn't come down right. He's never been a good defender, but at least could get in front of people for chargers and move better

That's entirely possible. The guy's been a warrior throughout the playoffs.
User avatar
K_ick_God
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 80,879
And1: 43,336
Joined: Oct 10, 2003
   

Re: PG: Saved By The KAT 

Post#813 » by K_ick_God » Mon May 26, 2025 6:55 pm

Image
User avatar
K_ick_God
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 80,879
And1: 43,336
Joined: Oct 10, 2003
   

Re: PG: Saved By The KAT 

Post#814 » by K_ick_God » Mon May 26, 2025 6:57 pm

Gravy wrote:All time Top 3 Knicks coach

Read on Twitter


He's doing the worst possible job imaginable basically
User avatar
F N 11
RealGM
Posts: 95,125
And1: 67,850
Joined: Jun 27, 2006
Location: Getting over screens with Gusto.
Contact:
 

Re: PG: Saved By The KAT 

Post#815 » by F N 11 » Mon May 26, 2025 6:57 pm

We not talking about OG Dirk fake for the 3 that rolled in to get us down 10 with the shot clock winding down.
CEO of the not trading RJ Club
User avatar
F N 11
RealGM
Posts: 95,125
And1: 67,850
Joined: Jun 27, 2006
Location: Getting over screens with Gusto.
Contact:
 

Re: PG: Saved By The KAT 

Post#816 » by F N 11 » Mon May 26, 2025 6:58 pm

K_ick_God wrote:
Gravy wrote:All time Top 3 Knicks coach

Read on Twitter


He's doing the worst possible job imaginable basically

He has 9 lives he needs to ride what is working. Knowing him he’ll do the opposite.
CEO of the not trading RJ Club
User avatar
NoDopeOnSundays
RealGM
Posts: 27,196
And1: 56,425
Joined: Nov 22, 2005
         

Re: PG: Saved By The KAT 

Post#817 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Mon May 26, 2025 7:01 pm

Read on Twitter




Nesmith is GTD.
LFGK
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,842
And1: 1,483
Joined: Apr 24, 2024
       

Re: PG: Saved By The KAT 

Post#818 » by LFGK » Mon May 26, 2025 7:01 pm

K_ick_God wrote:Image


One of the most brutal calls I ever seen in all my life, and the travel call. If they let KAT operate on offense, inside out, outside in, there's no way anyone on the pacers stops him, he's to big for the small guys they put on him on the block, and to quick for the big guys on him on the perimeter. 2-2 tomorrow night and Indiana is in shambles worse then the Knicks after game 1 :nod:
LFGK
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,842
And1: 1,483
Joined: Apr 24, 2024
       

Re: PG: Saved By The KAT 

Post#819 » by LFGK » Mon May 26, 2025 7:02 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Read on Twitter




Nesmith is GTD.


Hopefully he plays because he will be compromised and Brunson will take advantage of the matchup even more then he already has all series
ctorres
RealGM
Posts: 17,672
And1: 5,886
Joined: Jun 04, 2005

Re: PG: Saved By The KAT 

Post#820 » by ctorres » Mon May 26, 2025 7:10 pm

Calinks wrote:I think people worry too much about this team. This is year one of a rebuild with a new roster. I don't think the Knicks have figured out how to best use these guys.

I really don't think you are even using KAT to his full potential. The drop is a horrible scheme for him, and on offense I don't think the spots he get used in are maximized at all. They weren't in Minnesota either some the Gobert trade.

This guy has a bag that reaches deep, as time goes on the roster gets closer and the coaches figure out how to optimize what they got the Knicks are just going to get better.

This is an incredible run for year 1. People need to realize that. Every other team in the playoffs right now has had a more cohesive roster that has been improving for 2-5 years. None of them have made as many key changes as the Knicks.


I feel like part of why we played our top 5 guys heavy minutes together was to speed up the process of building chemistry. They were also healthy all-season.

Mitch was the only guy we didn't have all year who took until the middle of the playoffs to be in shape to play heavy minutes. So we never got to fully see what we had with a KAT/Mitch front court until now.

I'd preferably want to build around our top 7 guys. Need to find 3 guys this summer that Thibs would like enough to find minutes for.

Cavs and Celtics, we were ready to waive the white flag before a series started against either of them.

Against the Pacers, especially with the Knicks having homecourt advantage, it has been difficult for fans to accept them being a bad matchup for us. So we can wait a year to be better, but they will also be better a year from now if they keep the same cast of players. Pacers also have the advantage that many of their key guys are younger than ours with less mileage: Haliburton (24), Nembhard (25), Nesmith (25), Mathurin (22), Sheppard (23), Toppin (26), Turner (28)

The only guys in their 30's are Siakam (30) and McConnell (32)

Return to New York Knicks