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**NBA Draft Discussion 2025**

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Who's the guard pick if all available at 20?

Poll ended at Thu Jun 26, 2025 1:35 pm

Jase Richardson
2
9%
Nolan Traore
4
17%
Walter Clayton Jr
14
61%
Ben Saraf
3
13%
 
Total votes: 23

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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2025** 

Post#941 » by lastb1ckman » Sun May 25, 2025 10:38 pm

RexBoyWonder wrote:
twix2500 wrote:
RexBoyWonder wrote:

Agreed.

And that's exactly why it will be the wrong pick.

We don't need more solid safe players, we need game changers with real upside.


So Rex is this type of player? Unconventional player regardless of position?


tbh I dont like his game at all.

And I dont think we need a PF.

High upside PG or SF would be ideal


Oh man I saw him shooting in combine footage. He can't shoot at all lol. It's really rough at the 3 point line. I dont know how'd he even sniff the court on the Heat. Atleast Highsmith has the corner 3.
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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2025** 

Post#942 » by twix2500 » Sun May 25, 2025 11:13 pm

lastb1ckman wrote:
RexBoyWonder wrote:
twix2500 wrote:
So Rex is this type of player? Unconventional player regardless of position?


tbh I dont like his game at all.

And I dont think we need a PF.

High upside PG or SF would be ideal


Oh man I saw him shooting in combine footage. He can't shoot at all lol. It's really rough at the 3 point line. I dont know how'd he even sniff the court on the Heat. Atleast Highsmith has the corner 3.
I mean do you want an off ball player or someone to play off of? Idk are we looking for a safe player that is complementary that doesn't have a scoring mentality or a player is aggressive that get buckets draw fouls, unique out of the box etc? Rex literally stop picking safe picks just like because they have a low floor. Take a gamble

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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2025** 

Post#943 » by lastb1ckman » Sun May 25, 2025 11:29 pm

twix2500 wrote:
lastb1ckman wrote:
RexBoyWonder wrote:tbh I dont like his game at all.

And I dont think we need a PF.

High upside PG or SF would be ideal


Oh man I saw him shooting in combine footage. He can't shoot at all lol. It's really rough at the 3 point line. I dont know how'd he even sniff the court on the Heat. Atleast Highsmith has the corner 3.
I mean do you want an off ball player or someone to play off of? Idk are we looking for a safe player that is complementary that doesn't have a scoring mentality or a player is aggressive that get buckets draw fouls, unique out of the box etc? Rex literally safe stop picking safe picks because they have a low ceiling.

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Tbh, I haven't been a fan of CMB nba wise all season. What's his high level outcome? He always struck me as a poor man's Draymond Green. I can understand Derrick Queen, his high end archetype is out there in a offense hub like Sabonis, Segun or hell even Bam.

Personally, I think the guy with the highest ceiling at our range is Ben Saraf. Skilled 6'6" point guard with great vision and passing skills, good athleticism, decent defensive tools and iq, and plenty of shooting potential. He started out shaky overseas, but has come on and finished strong on a playoff team with pros. I can see him turning into a Dragic level player in the NBA. (I dont think he plays like dragic tho)
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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2025** 

Post#944 » by twix2500 » Sun May 25, 2025 11:41 pm

lastb1ckman wrote:
twix2500 wrote:
lastb1ckman wrote:
Oh man I saw him shooting in combine footage. He can't shoot at all lol. It's really rough at the 3 point line. I dont know how'd he even sniff the court on the Heat. Atleast Highsmith has the corner 3.
I mean do you want an off ball player or someone to play off of? Idk are we looking for a safe player that is complementary that doesn't have a scoring mentality or a player is aggressive that get buckets draw fouls, unique out of the box etc? Rex literally safe stop picking safe picks because they have a low ceiling.

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Tbh, I haven't been a fan of CMB nba wise all season. What's his high level outcome? He always struck me as a poor man's Draymond Green. I can understand Derrick Queen, his high end archetype is out there in a offense hub like Sabonis, Segun or hell even Bam.

Personally, I think the guy with the highest ceiling at our range is Ben Saraf. Skilled 6'6" point guard with great vision and passing skills, good athleticism, decent defensive tools and iq, and plenty of shooting potential. He started out shaky overseas, but has come on and finished strong on a playoff team with pros. I can see him turning into a Dragic level player in the NBA. (I dont think he plays like dragic tho)



I have a feeling many just want an elite point guard.

CMB is more like Randle. CMB score without space and gets to the line, along with being a good passer. Neither Bam and Ware was that coming out of college.


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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2025** 

Post#945 » by twix2500 » Mon May 26, 2025 12:09 am

twix2500 wrote:
lastb1ckman wrote:
twix2500 wrote:I mean do you want an off ball player or someone to play off of? Idk are we looking for a safe player that is complementary that doesn't have a scoring mentality or a player is aggressive that get buckets draw fouls, unique out of the box etc? Rex literally safe stop picking safe picks because they have a low ceiling.

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Tbh, I haven't been a fan of CMB nba wise all season. What's his high level outcome? He always struck me as a poor man's Draymond Green. I can understand Derrick Queen, his high end archetype is out there in a offense hub like Sabonis, Segun or hell even Bam.

Personally, I think the guy with the highest ceiling at our range is Ben Saraf. Skilled 6'6" point guard with great vision and passing skills, good athleticism, decent defensive tools and iq, and plenty of shooting potential. He started out shaky overseas, but has come on and finished strong on a playoff team with pros. I can see him turning into a Dragic level player in the NBA. (I dont think he plays like dragic tho)



I have a feeling many just want an elite point guard.

CMB is more like Randle. CMB score without space and gets to the line, long with being a good passer. Neither Bam and Ware was that coming out of college.


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Just looked up CMB measurement vs Green and Randle. He is somewhere inbetween the two

Murray-Boyles 6'6.5 ht. 7'0.75 wingspan
Randle 6'7.75 ht, 7'0 wingspan
Green 6'5.75 ht, 7'1.25 wingspan
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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2025** 

Post#946 » by MettaWorldPanda » Mon May 26, 2025 12:21 am

twix2500 wrote:
lastb1ckman wrote:
twix2500 wrote:I mean do you want an off ball player or someone to play off of? Idk are we looking for a safe player that is complementary that doesn't have a scoring mentality or a player is aggressive that get buckets draw fouls, unique out of the box etc? Rex literally safe stop picking safe picks because they have a low ceiling.

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Tbh, I haven't been a fan of CMB nba wise all season. What's his high level outcome? He always struck me as a poor man's Draymond Green. I can understand Derrick Queen, his high end archetype is out there in a offense hub like Sabonis, Segun or hell even Bam.

Personally, I think the guy with the highest ceiling at our range is Ben Saraf. Skilled 6'6" point guard with great vision and passing skills, good athleticism, decent defensive tools and iq, and plenty of shooting potential. He started out shaky overseas, but has come on and finished strong on a playoff team with pros. I can see him turning into a Dragic level player in the NBA. (I dont think he plays like dragic tho)



I have a feeling many just want an elite point guard.

CMB is more like Randle. CMB score without space and gets to the line, along with being a good passer. Neither Bam and Ware was that coming out of college.


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CMB is a good player but doesn’t fit what this current roster needs right now. Of course everyone wants a PG. Look at the depth chart and all you have is Rozier there right now lol
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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2025** 

Post#947 » by twix2500 » Mon May 26, 2025 1:29 am

MettaWorldPanda wrote:
twix2500 wrote:
lastb1ckman wrote:Tbh, I haven't been a fan of CMB nba wise all season. What's his high level outcome? He always struck me as a poor man's Draymond Green. I can understand Derrick Queen, his high end archetype is out there in a offense hub like Sabonis, Segun or hell even Bam.

Personally, I think the guy with the highest ceiling at our range is Ben Saraf. Skilled 6'6" point guard with great vision and passing skills, good athleticism, decent defensive tools and iq, and plenty of shooting potential. He started out shaky overseas, but has come on and finished strong on a playoff team with pros. I can see him turning into a Dragic level player in the NBA. (I dont think he plays like dragic tho)



I have a feeling many just want an elite point guard.

CMB is more like Randle. CMB score without space and gets to the line, along with being a good passer. Neither Bam and Ware was that coming out of college.


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CMB is a good player but doesn’t fit what this current roster needs right now. Of course everyone wants a PG. Look at the depth chart and all you have is Rozier there right now lol


The point is to pick talent over need aka the safe pick, right? If the Heat are drafting player who can contribute right now, then that means drafting a more developed like a senior or junior like Jaquez.
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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2025** 

Post#948 » by lastb1ckman » Mon May 26, 2025 1:45 am

Like what is even bold about taking CMB at 20? What's the high end star they would be swinging for? A Randle? A Draymond Green?

Could someone tell me what is so special about him that the Heat should draft him when we have Bam and Ware. I mean this literally, I haven't seen the appeal of him all season.
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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2025** 

Post#949 » by lastb1ckman » Mon May 26, 2025 1:54 am

The only way I would think the Heay would consider CMB, is if he was a potential Bam replacement. All the stuff I read is basically diet Bam, except he got to show his skill in college.
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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2025** 

Post#950 » by twix2500 » Mon May 26, 2025 2:02 am

lastb1ckman wrote:Like what is even bold about taking CMB at 20? What's the high end star they would be swinging for? A Randle? A Draymond Green?

Could someone tell me what is so special about him that the Heat should draft him when we have Bam and Ware. I mean this literally, I haven't seen the appeal of him all season.


The idea is to draft the best talent potential over need. However, my original question was to Rex on what is this specific talent description that shows that player has a HIGH ceiling or potential. For me personally getting to the free throw line which is evidence that one doesnt need space to be effective and likely has to ability to create space for others because the defense is overplaying him to stop him. CMB got to the free throw line 5.9 times a game, which shows this is not a guy who just scoring when he is open. And he has shown good vision as a passer as well. Which is other star potential characteristics in my book. Not only are you scoring when teams are overplaying you but you are also cable of making players better around you.
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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2025** 

Post#951 » by twix2500 » Mon May 26, 2025 2:14 am

Let me make a quick statment because I know people seen me be critical of Randle. I have always respected Randles talent. Hell I thought he was the most talented player out of all of the group of players that Lakers had drafted in Ball, Randle, Ingram, Russell, Hart and Kuzma. However as he developed I disliked a lot of his judgements during games and a lot of his mental lapses. A smarter Randle and a better shooting Randle would be a top five player in the league.
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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2025** 

Post#952 » by MettaWorldPanda » Mon May 26, 2025 3:15 am

lastb1ckman wrote:Like what is even bold about taking CMB at 20? What's the high end star they would be swinging for? A Randle? A Draymond Green?

Could someone tell me what is so special about him that the Heat should draft him when we have Bam and Ware. I mean this literally, I haven't seen the appeal of him all season.

Many mocks have CMB as a potential lottey pick. A good amount of teams from 10-19 will have needs in the front court so if they all pass on him and he falls to 20 i would say that those teams found a major flaw. Unless the Heat work him out and completely vet him and feel he’s worth taking over the plethora of talented guards who will be there i feel it could end up being Achuiwa 2.0 again. Let’s not do that again. Saraf, Philon, WCJ, Jace, and Traore all have a great chance to be there at 20. I’ll never ever forget us working out Devin Booker and saying he was our guy only to take Winslow who we never even looked at cause he slipped. Smdh
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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2025** 

Post#953 » by lastb1ckman » Mon May 26, 2025 3:28 am

twix2500 wrote:
lastb1ckman wrote:Like what is even bold about taking CMB at 20? What's the high end star they would be swinging for? A Randle? A Draymond Green?

Could someone tell me what is so special about him that the Heat should draft him when we have Bam and Ware. I mean this literally, I haven't seen the appeal of him all season.


The idea is to draft the best talent potential over need. However, my original question was to Rex on what is this specific talent description that shows that player has a HIGH ceiling or potential. For me personally getting to the free throw line which is evidence that one doesnt need space to be effective and likely has to ability to create space for others because the defense is overplaying him to stop him. CMB got to the free throw line 5.9 times a game, which shows this is not a guy who just scoring when he is open. And he has shown good vision as a passer as well. Which is other star potential characteristics in my book. Not only are you scoring when teams are overplaying you but you are also cable of making players better around you.


Those are definitely good characteristics in a prospect. I do wonder how valuable that is when you are a complete non shooter beyond the arc. Hes going to need a lot of BBIQ, and skill in the paint and midrange to overcome what I've seen from him shooting. Besides the fact that he's even smaller than Bam.
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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2025** 

Post#954 » by MettaWorldPanda » Mon May 26, 2025 4:50 am

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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2025** 

Post#955 » by RexBoyWonder » Mon May 26, 2025 7:09 am

twix2500 wrote:
RexBoyWonder wrote:
twix2500 wrote:
So Rex is this type of player? Unconventional player regardless of position?


tbh I dont like his game at all.

And I dont think we need a PF.

High upside PG or SF would be ideal


What physical attributes are you looking for to feel they have high upside?


When I try to asses long term potential I consider a few factors, most players in our range won't excel in all of them so we have to prioritize depending on the player :

1) Does he have the raw measurements?
is he big or long for his position? does he have a quickness advantage? is he exceptionally strong or bouncy or smooth? any physical factor that sets him apart from the average player is big.

2) Mentally - was he "the guy" since he was a kid on the court? Is he used to taking over games in the lower levels? is he aggressive? Is he the leader on his team?

3)Is he young? Both in age and in his improvement curve. or did he beat up on kid 3-4 younger then him and is closer to being a finished product as a senior. Does he have that one subpar skill that is holding him back that once improved on can take his game to an all other level?

4) Statistical indicators - FT rate tells you a lot about a player ability to create something out of nothing, which is an indication of a leading scorer type, aggressiveness and skillset. FT % tells you alot about a players shooting potential, which is pretty much crucial now days for any position except maybe Center. High stocks numbers translate to good athleticism and BB IQ, high raw PPG and assist numbers indicate readiness to the next level and assertiveness - important for a leading guy.


5) does he have "It"? after watching enough BB over the years you can just tell some guys have that spark to their games, it can be creativity or aggressiveness or some sort of a superskill that makes them stand out. Guys like Saraf, Traore, Richardson seem to have "it" this year. They might not pan out, but you can see the upside if they figure it out.


I look at every player we consider in the draft through these lens - If they don't fit these criteria They're not what we should go for at our position as an organization.
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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2025** 

Post#956 » by MettaWorldPanda » Mon May 26, 2025 4:58 pm

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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2025** 

Post#957 » by lastb1ckman » Mon May 26, 2025 9:22 pm

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Aw damn, I hope he's not gone by 20 now
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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2025** 

Post#958 » by MettaWorldPanda » Mon May 26, 2025 10:04 pm

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Aw damn, I hope he's not gone by 20 now

Afraid of BK at 19
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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2025** 

Post#959 » by Voltron914 » Mon May 26, 2025 11:04 pm

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oh damn this is exactly what we need on this team. Bam Ware and Herro could benefit from him day 1
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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2025** 

Post#960 » by MettaWorldPanda » Tue May 27, 2025 1:11 am

Voltron914 wrote:
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oh damn this is exactly what we need on this team. Bam Ware and Herro could benefit from him day 1

Need BK to draft a guard at 8. Hopefully they take Jakucionus or Egor Demin. I hear they really want to jump up and take Dylan Harper. Would make there 19th pick more predictable if they just went guard early in the lottery.

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