NBA Trade Thread #12

[WesPeace]

Mavs thinking about Lonzo as option until Irving comes back.. Lonzo and Terry for Gafford and 2nd would be cool deal.

Link?

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/280534/Mavericks-Interested-In-Jrue-Holiday-Lonzo-Ball-Chris-Paul

[sco]

Mavs thinking about Lonzo as option until Irving comes back.. Lonzo and Terry for Gafford and 2nd would be cool deal.

Gotta think CP3 would come cheaper, but if DAL took Terry in the deal too, I'd be happy to add our 2nd instead of getting one. Still, I don't see AK wanting Gafford back

[Infinity2152]

How are Sabonis and Giannis remotely comparable?

Sacramento got 3 FRPs and 3 SRPs along with the 2nd best prime player in the deal (Lavine), while dumping what they considered a deadweight contract in Huerter. Why would Sabonis’ price tag not be the same, if not higher? His numbers and advanced stats are much better; he’s got 3 ASGs to Fox’s 1.

There’s just no reason Kings would sell him for less than 3 FRPs or one really good player. Vuc, Collins and lotto protected Portland pick that may not convey? That’s the kind of offer you make for Kyle Kuzma, before he further tanked his value in Milwaukee.

Sure- they’ll take Coby, Vuc and 2 Bulls FRPs, but I don’t see them taking any less, and I don’t see why we would entertain that.

They're comparable if you're using age as a reason to disqualify Sabonis, they're both 29 yr old PF in good health. It's wild to treat 29 as old in the NBA.

Coby, Vucevic, we probably add another player in there to come close to matching salary. That makes up for a pick. The deal you're talking about was for De'Aaron Fox. The actual Sabonis trade was Haliburton, Buddy Hield and Tristan Thompson and in addition to Sabonis, the Kings got Justin Holiday, Jeremy Lamb, and a second round pick. This was the ACTUAL trade value for Sabonis. Haliburton was picked with pick 12 one years prior, averaging 15pts, 8 assists with average defense. Nowhere near 3 first round picks plus a 26 yr 20Pt scorer, plus an 18/10 center shooting 40% from 3 last year plus another player to match salary. Your trade value for Sabonis isn't close to what they actually gave up for him.

Again, state what you think the minimum offer the Kings would accept, and we can go from there. You still haven't said what this asking price will be that's too high for us. The Portland first was initially mentioned, no value to that? Couldn't our picks be protected too?

Sample offer: Coby, Vucevic, Ayo, Portland 1st, Bulls 2028 first for Sabonis. All three of those players could be gone in 2026, with us getting little in return. They're all expiring. So in 2026 we'd be talking about having the Portland 1st, our 2028 first and whatever assets we got from those players, vs Sabonis.

For the Kings, they already messed up taking the Lavine/Derozan contracts. These contracts plus picks give them way more flexibility in what they can do.

Of course they could say no. Maybe they have no plans at all to move Sabonis. Wouldn't stop me from trying. Who do you want to add to improve the team, or do you not want us to add better players? It's not going to be free. Welcoming some alternative prospects.

It doesn't matter that Haliburton was picked #12. He was coming off a promising rookie season, which is why Indiana traded a 24/25 year old two time all-star for him (Sabonis).

Why would the Kings be interested in Coby? They currently have Malik Monk, Zach LaVine, Devin Carter and Keon Ellis at the guard positions. Is Coby worth the downgrade at C?

I know you added Vuc (meh) and the Portland 1st plus a 2028 first. Those picks have value, but if picks are what the Kings want for Sabonis then they can probably do better elsewhere (or a different trade with the Bulls).

My two cents is that the Bulls should be hesitant to trade future first round picks. We've all seen how that worked out with the Vucevic trade.

I mean, Sabonis is not at the top of my list for possible moves the Bulls could do. Honestly, pretty much every proposal for any significant player is criticized or deemed impossible. Not trying to change people's minds. Some people may want to discuss trade possibilities others think are impossible or improbable. Doubt many outside this room would argue he's not instantly the best player on this team.

Like my point with Haliburton is, yes, he was coming off a promising rookie season. He wasn't this Haliburton, and probably not considered worth more than Coby and 3 first round picks at the time.

Don't see much value in debating what a team would accept for a player, when the people on the other side rarely present what they would consider a reasonable offer. It's usually just "They'd never do it for this", not "I think it would cost X" then we can debate if X is worth it. How do you even argue with "they'd never accept this"?

Again, I present my trade proposals from a Bulls perspective. I try to present them in a close enough range to be debatable, but not unreasonable. Others can consider them unreasonable, I accept the fact that I have NO idea what most NBA teams are trying to right now, so motive is a very small part. I could come up with at least 4 reasons why the Kings would want to do this, but what's the point?

Plus I think most of the people in here undervalue most of our players. I could be wrong, of course. An example is I never see Vucevic as worse than the 18th or so ranked center on anybody's list outside this forum. Have looked at quite a few lists.

And i feel you on the future first trades. My feeling is with Matas on the team, Giddey about to be signed, and us about to add another rookie, plus 2026 rookie, future firsts fall way behind adding high-end talent right now. This team is likely to be very young and hopefully not drafting high in 2-3 years.

[MrSparkle]

They're comparable if you're using age as a reason to disqualify Sabonis, they're both 29 yr old PF in good health. It's wild to treat 29 as old in the NBA.

Coby, Vucevic, we probably add another player in there to come close to matching salary. That makes up for a pick. The deal you're talking about was for De'Aaron Fox. The actual Sabonis trade was Haliburton, Buddy Hield and Tristan Thompson and in addition to Sabonis, the Kings got Justin Holiday, Jeremy Lamb, and a second round pick. This was the ACTUAL trade value for Sabonis. Haliburton was picked with pick 12 one years prior, averaging 15pts, 8 assists with average defense. Nowhere near 3 first round picks plus a 26 yr 20Pt scorer, plus an 18/10 center shooting 40% from 3 last year plus another player to match salary. Your trade value for Sabonis isn't close to what they actually gave up for him.

Again, state what you think the minimum offer the Kings would accept, and we can go from there. You still haven't said what this asking price will be that's too high for us. The Portland first was initially mentioned, no value to that? Couldn't our picks be protected too?

Sample offer: Coby, Vucevic, Ayo, Portland 1st, Bulls 2028 first for Sabonis. All three of those players could be gone in 2026, with us getting little in return. They're all expiring. So in 2026 we'd be talking about having the Portland 1st, our 2028 first and whatever assets we got from those players, vs Sabonis.

For the Kings, they already messed up taking the Lavine/Derozan contracts. These contracts plus picks give them way more flexibility in what they can do.

Of course they could say no. Maybe they have no plans at all to move Sabonis. Wouldn't stop me from trying. Who do you want to add to improve the team, or do you not want us to add better players? It's not going to be free. Welcoming some alternative prospects.

It doesn't matter that Haliburton was picked #12. He was coming off a promising rookie season, which is why Indiana traded a 24/25 year old two time all-star for him (Sabonis).

Why would the Kings be interested in Coby? They currently have Malik Monk, Zach LaVine, Devin Carter and Keon Ellis at the guard positions. Is Coby worth the downgrade at C?

I know you added Vuc (meh) and the Portland 1st plus a 2028 first. Those picks have value, but if picks are what the Kings want for Sabonis then they can probably do better elsewhere (or a different trade with the Bulls).

My two cents is that the Bulls should be hesitant to trade future first round picks. We've all seen how that worked out with the Vucevic trade.

I mean, Sabonis is not at the top of my list for possible moves the Bulls could do. Honestly, pretty much every proposal for any significant player is criticized or deemed impossible. Not trying to change people's minds. Some people may want to discuss trade possibilities others think are impossible or improbable.

Like my point with Haliburton is, yes, he was coming off a promising rookie season. He wasn't this Haliburton, and probably not considered worth more than Coby and 3 first round picks at the time.

Don't see much value in debating what a team would accept for a player, when the people on the other side rarely present what they would consider a reasonable offer. It's usually just "They'd never do it for this", not "I think it would cost X" then we can debate if X is worth it. How do you even argue with "they'd never accept this"?

Again, I present my trade proposals from a Bulls perspective. I try to present them in a close enough range to be debatable, but not unreasonable. Others can consider them unreasonable, I accept the fact that I have NO idea what most NBA teams are trying to right now, so motive is a very small part. I could come up with at least 4 reasons why the Kings would want to do this, but what's the point?

Plus I think most of the people in here undervalue most of our players. I could be wrong, of course. An example is I never see Vucevic as worse than the 18th or so ranked center on anybody's list outside this forum. Have looked at quite a few lists.

Is Vucevic worth more than Lavine or Demar?

What did we get for Lavine? Unwanted contracts (by their teams- tbf they played much better for us than they did for them, but I wouldn’t rely on the 15-game honey moon… small sample size) and our FRP back (thank god). Theoretically we had some leverage against SAS, as it was looking like a 50/50 chance of not conveying, esp. since Bulls were sending their best player out (logically, sending Lavine actually increased the chance of protection, making it less valuable to SAS). If it was an unprotected pick, I’m not sure Spurs agree to sending that final chip.

What did we get for Demar? 2 SRPs and a player who got bought out.

So based on these two much better players’ trade return, the only real plus for Vuc is his smaller salary, which is still a sizable $20M. What is his trade value then? It can’t be as good, since he’s older and worse.

All these proposals are possible, once Bulls offer their FRP (if not multiple).

You’re just talking about sending crucial FRPs again, when there is zero guarantee of us even being a 1st round playoff team. Especially if Coby is sent out; I hate the idea of ditching our best iso shot maker, 3P shooter and leading scorer who hasn’t even hit his prime, along with picks, for a late-prime big man who can’t lead his team to the playoffs.

He’s missed 5/6 of the last post-seasons. Do you really not see any red flags or Deja-Vucevic?!?

[Dan Z]

They're comparable if you're using age as a reason to disqualify Sabonis, they're both 29 yr old PF in good health. It's wild to treat 29 as old in the NBA.

Coby, Vucevic, we probably add another player in there to come close to matching salary. That makes up for a pick. The deal you're talking about was for De'Aaron Fox. The actual Sabonis trade was Haliburton, Buddy Hield and Tristan Thompson and in addition to Sabonis, the Kings got Justin Holiday, Jeremy Lamb, and a second round pick. This was the ACTUAL trade value for Sabonis. Haliburton was picked with pick 12 one years prior, averaging 15pts, 8 assists with average defense. Nowhere near 3 first round picks plus a 26 yr 20Pt scorer, plus an 18/10 center shooting 40% from 3 last year plus another player to match salary. Your trade value for Sabonis isn't close to what they actually gave up for him.

Again, state what you think the minimum offer the Kings would accept, and we can go from there. You still haven't said what this asking price will be that's too high for us. The Portland first was initially mentioned, no value to that? Couldn't our picks be protected too?

Sample offer: Coby, Vucevic, Ayo, Portland 1st, Bulls 2028 first for Sabonis. All three of those players could be gone in 2026, with us getting little in return. They're all expiring. So in 2026 we'd be talking about having the Portland 1st, our 2028 first and whatever assets we got from those players, vs Sabonis.

For the Kings, they already messed up taking the Lavine/Derozan contracts. These contracts plus picks give them way more flexibility in what they can do.

Of course they could say no. Maybe they have no plans at all to move Sabonis. Wouldn't stop me from trying. Who do you want to add to improve the team, or do you not want us to add better players? It's not going to be free. Welcoming some alternative prospects.

It doesn't matter that Haliburton was picked #12. He was coming off a promising rookie season, which is why Indiana traded a 24/25 year old two time all-star for him (Sabonis).

Why would the Kings be interested in Coby? They currently have Malik Monk, Zach LaVine, Devin Carter and Keon Ellis at the guard positions. Is Coby worth the downgrade at C?

I know you added Vuc (meh) and the Portland 1st plus a 2028 first. Those picks have value, but if picks are what the Kings want for Sabonis then they can probably do better elsewhere (or a different trade with the Bulls).

My two cents is that the Bulls should be hesitant to trade future first round picks. We've all seen how that worked out with the Vucevic trade.

I mean, Sabonis is not at the top of my list for possible moves the Bulls could do. Honestly, pretty much every proposal for any significant player is criticized or deemed impossible. Not trying to change people's minds. Some people may want to discuss trade possibilities others think are impossible or improbable. Doubt many outside this room would argue he's not instantly the best player on this team.

Like my point with Haliburton is, yes, he was coming off a promising rookie season. He wasn't this Haliburton, and probably not considered worth more than Coby and 3 first round picks at the time.

Don't see much value in debating what a team would accept for a player, when the people on the other side rarely present what they would consider a reasonable offer. It's usually just "They'd never do it for this", not "I think it would cost X" then we can debate if X is worth it. How do you even argue with "they'd never accept this"?

Again, I present my trade proposals from a Bulls perspective. I try to present them in a close enough range to be debatable, but not unreasonable. Others can consider them unreasonable, I accept the fact that I have NO idea what most NBA teams are trying to right now, so motive is a very small part. I could come up with at least 4 reasons why the Kings would want to do this, but what's the point?

Plus I think most of the people in here undervalue most of our players. I could be wrong, of course. An example is I never see Vucevic as worse than the 18th or so ranked center on anybody's list outside this forum. Have looked at quite a few lists.

And i feel you on the future first trades. My feeling is with Matas on the team, Giddey about to be signed, and us about to add another rookie, plus 2026 rookie, future firsts fall way behind adding high-end talent right now.

The only thing we can do is look at what a team needs and make an educated guess as to what they might want or do in a trade.

I agree with you that Sabonis is a good player, which is why I think the Kings will want a lot for him if they trade him (I don't think they'll really trade Sabonis). Would he be the best player on the Bulls? Maybe.

I get why people think AK will try to get him, but I don't think they should. There's a good chance that he won't make the team a real contender, so they might as well continue drafting and improve any other way they can.

[Infinity2152]

It doesn't matter that Haliburton was picked #12. He was coming off a promising rookie season, which is why Indiana traded a 24/25 year old two time all-star for him (Sabonis).

Why would the Kings be interested in Coby? They currently have Malik Monk, Zach LaVine, Devin Carter and Keon Ellis at the guard positions. Is Coby worth the downgrade at C?

I know you added Vuc (meh) and the Portland 1st plus a 2028 first. Those picks have value, but if picks are what the Kings want for Sabonis then they can probably do better elsewhere (or a different trade with the Bulls).

My two cents is that the Bulls should be hesitant to trade future first round picks. We've all seen how that worked out with the Vucevic trade.

I mean, Sabonis is not at the top of my list for possible moves the Bulls could do. Honestly, pretty much every proposal for any significant player is criticized or deemed impossible. Not trying to change people's minds. Some people may want to discuss trade possibilities others think are impossible or improbable.

Like my point with Haliburton is, yes, he was coming off a promising rookie season. He wasn't this Haliburton, and probably not considered worth more than Coby and 3 first round picks at the time.

Don't see much value in debating what a team would accept for a player, when the people on the other side rarely present what they would consider a reasonable offer. It's usually just "They'd never do it for this", not "I think it would cost X" then we can debate if X is worth it. How do you even argue with "they'd never accept this"?

Again, I present my trade proposals from a Bulls perspective. I try to present them in a close enough range to be debatable, but not unreasonable. Others can consider them unreasonable, I accept the fact that I have NO idea what most NBA teams are trying to right now, so motive is a very small part. I could come up with at least 4 reasons why the Kings would want to do this, but what's the point?

Plus I think most of the people in here undervalue most of our players. I could be wrong, of course. An example is I never see Vucevic as worse than the 18th or so ranked center on anybody's list outside this forum. Have looked at quite a few lists.

Is Vucevic worth more than Lavine or Demar?

What did we get for Lavine? Unwanted contracts (by their teams- tbf they played much better for us than they did for them, but I wouldn’t rely on the 15-game honey moon… small sample size) and our FRP back (thank god). Theoretically we had some leverage against SAS, as it was looking like a 50/50 chance of not conveying, esp. since Bulls were sending their best player out (logically, sending Lavine actually increased the chance of protection, making it less valuable to SAS). If it was an unprotected pick, I’m not sure Spurs agree to sending that final chip.

What did we get for Demar? 2 SRPs and a player who got bought out.

So based on these two much better players’ trade return, the only real plus for Vuc is his smaller salary, which is still a sizable $20M. What is his trade value then? It can’t be as good, since he’s older and worse.

All these proposals are possible, once Bulls offer their FRP (if not multiple).

You’re just talking about sending crucial FRPs again, when there is zero guarantee of us even being a 1st round playoff team. Especially if Coby is sent out; I hate the idea of ditching our best iso shot maker, 3P shooter and leading scorer who hasn’t even hit his prime, along with picks, for a late-prime big man who can’t lead his team to the playoffs.

He’s missed 5/6 of the last post-seasons. Do you really not see any red flags or Deja-Vucevic?!?

We didn't trade Demar. Sign and trade is completely different in value, especially for an unrestricted free agent. We were part of a three way.

What did we get for Lavine? Two players who were effective for us and a lottery pick. Contracts that are soon to be expiring and valuable in and of themselves. Until Collins/Huerter re-sign, traded, play another season, can't say what we got for Zach other than two good soon to be expiring players and a first.

I believe I said 2028 first. Crucial first round picks, lmao! So we should never trade first round picks? Or only for the players you approve of? Which is it? The point of picks is adding All Star talent, Sabonis guaranteed All Star talent.

I'm not saying Vucevic has a super high trade demand. I'm saying he's not the piece of crap he keeps being represented as and worth little to nothing in trade. That's not the same thing.

[Infinity2152]

It doesn't matter that Haliburton was picked #12. He was coming off a promising rookie season, which is why Indiana traded a 24/25 year old two time all-star for him (Sabonis).

Why would the Kings be interested in Coby? They currently have Malik Monk, Zach LaVine, Devin Carter and Keon Ellis at the guard positions. Is Coby worth the downgrade at C?

I know you added Vuc (meh) and the Portland 1st plus a 2028 first. Those picks have value, but if picks are what the Kings want for Sabonis then they can probably do better elsewhere (or a different trade with the Bulls).

My two cents is that the Bulls should be hesitant to trade future first round picks. We've all seen how that worked out with the Vucevic trade.

I mean, Sabonis is not at the top of my list for possible moves the Bulls could do. Honestly, pretty much every proposal for any significant player is criticized or deemed impossible. Not trying to change people's minds. Some people may want to discuss trade possibilities others think are impossible or improbable. Doubt many outside this room would argue he's not instantly the best player on this team.

Like my point with Haliburton is, yes, he was coming off a promising rookie season. He wasn't this Haliburton, and probably not considered worth more than Coby and 3 first round picks at the time.

Don't see much value in debating what a team would accept for a player, when the people on the other side rarely present what they would consider a reasonable offer. It's usually just "They'd never do it for this", not "I think it would cost X" then we can debate if X is worth it. How do you even argue with "they'd never accept this"?

Again, I present my trade proposals from a Bulls perspective. I try to present them in a close enough range to be debatable, but not unreasonable. Others can consider them unreasonable, I accept the fact that I have NO idea what most NBA teams are trying to right now, so motive is a very small part. I could come up with at least 4 reasons why the Kings would want to do this, but what's the point?

Plus I think most of the people in here undervalue most of our players. I could be wrong, of course. An example is I never see Vucevic as worse than the 18th or so ranked center on anybody's list outside this forum. Have looked at quite a few lists.

And i feel you on the future first trades. My feeling is with Matas on the team, Giddey about to be signed, and us about to add another rookie, plus 2026 rookie, future firsts fall way behind adding high-end talent right now.

The only thing we can do is look at what a team needs and make an educated guess as to what they might want or do in a trade.

I agree with you that Sabonis is a good player, which is why I think the Kings will want a lot for him if they trade him (I don't think they'll really trade Sabonis). Would he be the best player on the Bulls? Maybe.

I get why people think AK will try to get him, but I don't think they should. There's a good chance that he won't make the team a real contender, so they might as well continue drafting and improve any other way they can.

Bulls have a few ways to go this summer. They're not likely to draft that 1A with pick 12. With the amount of analysis I see in here, I'm really surprised there's not more agreement that the Bulls best time to make a power move is between this summer and summer 2026. I look at team building and I believe timing and contracts are huge in talent acquisition windows. Don't want to wait till Matas extension to try to add a big contract.

There are 30 teams in the league. Maybe 8-10 top players it's incredibly hard to get and hard to win championships without them. We've been a mid-team for a long time with hard to trade, reduced value assets. Barring fantastic luck, we're not going to be contenders soon. We can greatly increase our talent level, while trying to maintain some flexibility.

I see no value in waiting to trade most of these players, outside Williams. We have like 5 mid players to trade, most with expiring contracts. We're going to be a mid team regardless. We're not losing 60 games with Giddey, Coby and Matas. I'm not saying take any move, but if we have a chance to add AllStar talent using mostly expiring pieces, this is a great time. We only have Giddey and Matas.

If a 1A trade becomes available, we need a central player to send out. Coby ain't it. If we don't want it to be Giddey or Matas, we need somebody else to send. After Giddey's contract, we can probably afford two star level players to add to Giddey and Matas, not one.

[Dan Z]

I mean, Sabonis is not at the top of my list for possible moves the Bulls could do. Honestly, pretty much every proposal for any significant player is criticized or deemed impossible. Not trying to change people's minds. Some people may want to discuss trade possibilities others think are impossible or improbable. Doubt many outside this room would argue he's not instantly the best player on this team.

Like my point with Haliburton is, yes, he was coming off a promising rookie season. He wasn't this Haliburton, and probably not considered worth more than Coby and 3 first round picks at the time.

Don't see much value in debating what a team would accept for a player, when the people on the other side rarely present what they would consider a reasonable offer. It's usually just "They'd never do it for this", not "I think it would cost X" then we can debate if X is worth it. How do you even argue with "they'd never accept this"?

Again, I present my trade proposals from a Bulls perspective. I try to present them in a close enough range to be debatable, but not unreasonable. Others can consider them unreasonable, I accept the fact that I have NO idea what most NBA teams are trying to right now, so motive is a very small part. I could come up with at least 4 reasons why the Kings would want to do this, but what's the point?

Plus I think most of the people in here undervalue most of our players. I could be wrong, of course. An example is I never see Vucevic as worse than the 18th or so ranked center on anybody's list outside this forum. Have looked at quite a few lists.

And i feel you on the future first trades. My feeling is with Matas on the team, Giddey about to be signed, and us about to add another rookie, plus 2026 rookie, future firsts fall way behind adding high-end talent right now.

The only thing we can do is look at what a team needs and make an educated guess as to what they might want or do in a trade.

I agree with you that Sabonis is a good player, which is why I think the Kings will want a lot for him if they trade him (I don't think they'll really trade Sabonis). Would he be the best player on the Bulls? Maybe.

I get why people think AK will try to get him, but I don't think they should. There's a good chance that he won't make the team a real contender, so they might as well continue drafting and improve any other way they can.

Bulls have a few ways to go this summer. They're not likely to draft that 1A with pick 12. With the amount of analysis I see in here, I'm really surprised there's not more agreement that the Bulls best time to make a power move is between this summer and summer 2026. I look at team building and I believe timing and contracts are huge in talent acquisition windows. Don't want to wait till Matas extension to try to add a big contract.

There are 30 teams in the league. Maybe 8-10 top players it's incredibly hard to get and hard to win championships without them. We've been a mid-team for a long time with hard to trade, reduced value assets. Barring fantastic luck, we're not going to be contenders soon. We can greatly increase our talent level, while trying to maintain some flexibility.

I see no value in waiting to trade most of these players, outside Williams. We have like 5 mid players to trade, most with expiring contracts. We're going to be a mid team regardless. We're not losing 60 games with Giddey, Coby and Matas. I'm not saying take any move, but if we have a chance to add AllStar talent using mostly expiring pieces, this is a great time. We only have Giddey and Matas.

If a 1A trade becomes available, we need a central player to send out. Coby ain't it. If we don't want it to be Giddey or Matas, we need somebody else to send. After Giddey's contract, we can probably afford two star level players to add to Giddey and Matas, not one.

I'd hate for the Bulls to do the Vucevic trade 2.0.

It hasn't worked and I'd prefer they try something else. Giving up future assets to win now has lead to three seasons in a row with no playoffs.

I'm not against trading Coby, but if they do the team needs someone to score the ball. Giddey and Matas aren't those kind of players.

[sco]

The only thing we can do is look at what a team needs and make an educated guess as to what they might want or do in a trade.

I agree with you that Sabonis is a good player, which is why I think the Kings will want a lot for him if they trade him (I don't think they'll really trade Sabonis). Would he be the best player on the Bulls? Maybe.

I get why people think AK will try to get him, but I don't think they should. There's a good chance that he won't make the team a real contender, so they might as well continue drafting and improve any other way they can.

Bulls have a few ways to go this summer. They're not likely to draft that 1A with pick 12. With the amount of analysis I see in here, I'm really surprised there's not more agreement that the Bulls best time to make a power move is between this summer and summer 2026. I look at team building and I believe timing and contracts are huge in talent acquisition windows. Don't want to wait till Matas extension to try to add a big contract.

There are 30 teams in the league. Maybe 8-10 top players it's incredibly hard to get and hard to win championships without them. We've been a mid-team for a long time with hard to trade, reduced value assets. Barring fantastic luck, we're not going to be contenders soon. We can greatly increase our talent level, while trying to maintain some flexibility.

I see no value in waiting to trade most of these players, outside Williams. We have like 5 mid players to trade, most with expiring contracts. We're going to be a mid team regardless. We're not losing 60 games with Giddey, Coby and Matas. I'm not saying take any move, but if we have a chance to add AllStar talent using mostly expiring pieces, this is a great time. We only have Giddey and Matas.

If a 1A trade becomes available, we need a central player to send out. Coby ain't it. If we don't want it to be Giddey or Matas, we need somebody else to send. After Giddey's contract, we can probably afford two star level players to add to Giddey and Matas, not one.

I'd hate for the Bulls to do the Vucevic trade 2.0.

It hasn't worked and I'd prefer they try something else. Giving up future assets to win now has lead to three seasons in a row with no playoffs.

I'm not against trading Coby, but if they do the team needs someone to score the ball. Giddey and Matas aren't those kind of players.

I get Infinity's logic for Sabonis. He's objectively a very good NBA player, and he's been rumored to be available. It also follows AK's style of hub-based playmaking C's. Also AK is more about showing incremental progress than contending. Also AK is a euro-lover. So the notion has higher-than-average plausibillity. Sabonis, at his mid-career level, is arguably better than any current Bull.

I, and seemingly others, see Vucavic as perhaps the worst thing that has happened to the Bulls since the Rose injury. He was brought here to be our Joker, and worked out as well as any team bringing in JR Smith to be their MJ. My single biggest objection to Vucavic is the fact that he is among the worst, if not the worst, rim protecting C in NBA. Sabonis, regardless of whether he is played at the 4 or the 5 will materially weaking our team defensively (assuming Vucavic is gone). Also, I asked Chatgpt about Sabonis being a top 15 vote getter for DPOY, and it did corroborate Infinity's point; however it added:

This was a surprising development, as Sabonis is primarily recognized for his offensive prowess and rebounding abilities rather than his defensive impact. The lone third-place vote was cast by Ignacio Garcia of MARCA, who also voted for Sabonis in several other award categories, including First Team All-NBA, First Team All-Defense, and fourth place in MVP voting.

So some other Euro-lover, perhaps a cousin, voted for him. Pfft.

I would strongly argue that this team would have a better record, all else being equal, just starting Collins/Smith over Sabonis.

[Infinity2152]

Yeah, I keep seeing the main objection is comparison to Vucevic and results. I'll repeat I don't want him at center, I'd want him at PF. He's 20 lbs lighter than Vuc. Not counting on him for rim protection. There are a lot of big PF's in the league, he's a solid matchup against those teams with 6'9+ power forwards. Get the feeling most here are hoping Matas plays PF or we get a smaller guy, but a LOT of successful teams are running with big PF's now. He'd possibly be the top rebounding PF in the league, which is a huge help defensively.

There are pros and cons to both types of PF. Again, look at the PF's in the conference Finals. Sabonis probably matches up with KAT or Chet better than most 6'7, 210 lbs guys considered "better" defenders.

Top choice for move is still Desmond Bane trade, but wouldn't mind Sabonis trade at all. We can guess all day how it would work out, but it could be a spectacular fit, or a bad one.

[sco]

Yeah, I keep seeing the main objection is comparison to Vucevic and results. I'll repeat I don't want him at center, I'd want him at PF. He's 20 lbs lighter than Vuc. Not counting on him for rim protection. There are a lot of big PF's in the league, he's a solid matchup against those teams with 6'9+ power forwards. Get the feeling most here are hoping Matas plays PF or we get a smaller guy, but a LOT of successful teams are running with big PF's now. He'd possibly be the top rebounding PF in the league, which is a huge help defensively.

There are pros and cons to both types of PF. Again, look at the PF's in the conference Finals. Sabonis probably matches up with KAT or Chet better than most 6'7, 210 lbs guys considered "better" defenders.

On the PF thing, I get it, because it allows us to find a good defensive C, while adding a good player. That said, IMO, even playing him at PF, weakens us defensively because we lose the ability to play a POA defender. Also, I'm against adding anyone who would bump Matas back in the offensive pecking order, especially someone who isn't a legit #1 option.

So again, I see the logic, but I disagree that it's a good move.

Please don't take my disagreement as not loving the fact that you bring interesting ideas here...KEEP IT UP!

[Infinity2152]

Yeah, I keep seeing the main objection is comparison to Vucevic and results. I'll repeat I don't want him at center, I'd want him at PF. He's 20 lbs lighter than Vuc. Not counting on him for rim protection. There are a lot of big PF's in the league, he's a solid matchup against those teams with 6'9+ power forwards. Get the feeling most here are hoping Matas plays PF or we get a smaller guy, but a LOT of successful teams are running with big PF's now. He'd possibly be the top rebounding PF in the league, which is a huge help defensively.

There are pros and cons to both types of PF. Again, look at the PF's in the conference Finals. Sabonis probably matches up with KAT or Chet better than most 6'7, 210 lbs guys considered "better" defenders.

On the PF thing, I get it, because it allows us to find a good defensive C, while adding a good player. That said, IMO, even playing him at PF, weakens us defensively because we lose the ability to play a POA defender. Also, I'm against adding anyone who would bump Matas back in the offensive pecking order, especially someone who isn't a legit #1 option.

So again, I see the logic, but I disagree that it's a good move.

Please don't take my disagreement as not loving the fact that you bring interesting ideas here...KEEP IT UP!

My man! Idea is Giddey, Two way SG, Matas, Sabonis, defensive center. We should have enough cap space to add a high level player at either SG or center. We also have picks/expirings and a new rookie incoming. SG is POA defender, center is rim protector.

I don't view it as necessarily a forever move. I see it as a chance to grab the most valuable player we can, that could possibly fit with our guys. He'd be an extremely valuable trade asset on a team that's pretty asset poor once we lose all these expirings.

Really opposed to waiting and wasting the first $25-30 mill yr of Giddey and another cheap year of Matas, not to mention $70+ mill of expirings. Lot of teams have cap space next summer. People keep saying everybody will outbid us in every trade, most teams don't have 70+ mill of expirings that they're willing to trade, plus all their picks. Think we're in a better position than most to make trades this summer.

On the plus side, I think people are counting on Ball, Wiliams, Carter, Phillips, Ayo, Terry and Smith to add very little to the team. I'm hoping at least a few of them prove to be valuable players here. Vucevic goes in a Sabonis trade, think Smith gets real minutes, if not starting.

[ShouldaPaidBG]

I want Terrence Shannon Jr.

[boozapalooza]

Yeah, I keep seeing the main objection is comparison to Vucevic and results. I'll repeat I don't want him at center, I'd want him at PF. He's 20 lbs lighter than Vuc. Not counting on him for rim protection. There are a lot of big PF's in the league, he's a solid matchup against those teams with 6'9+ power forwards. Get the feeling most here are hoping Matas plays PF or we get a smaller guy, but a LOT of successful teams are running with big PF's now. He'd possibly be the top rebounding PF in the league, which is a huge help defensively.

There are pros and cons to both types of PF. Again, look at the PF's in the conference Finals. Sabonis probably matches up with KAT or Chet better than most 6'7, 210 lbs guys considered "better" defenders.

On the PF thing, I get it, because it allows us to find a good defensive C, while adding a good player. That said, IMO, even playing him at PF, weakens us defensively because we lose the ability to play a POA defender. Also, I'm against adding anyone who would bump Matas back in the offensive pecking order, especially someone who isn't a legit #1 option.

So again, I see the logic, but I disagree that it's a good move.

Please don't take my disagreement as not loving the fact that you bring interesting ideas here...KEEP IT UP!

My man! Idea is Giddey, Two way SG, Matas, Sabonis, defensive center. We should have enough cap space to add a high level player at either SG or center. We also have picks/expirings and a new rookie incoming. SG is POA defender, center is rim protector.

I don't view it as necessarily a forever move. I see it as a chance to grab the most valuable player we can, that could possibly fit with our guys. He'd be an extremely valuable trade asset on a team that's pretty asset poor once we lose all these expirings.

Really opposed to waiting and wasting the first $25-30 mill yr of Giddey and another cheap year of Matas, not to mention $70+ mill of expirings. Lot of teams have cap space next summer. People keep saying everybody will outbid us in every trade, most teams don't have 70+ mill of expirings that they're willing to trade, plus all their picks. Think we're in a better position than most to make trades this summer.

The way I see it, Coby/Giddey/Matas/Sabonis is a solid foundation to build upon. I’d trade Coby for a solid C as the next move, but for next year, were a playoff team in the East

Prior to Demar/Zach, Sabonis had his best season at 19/13/8 over 82 games. Hes not getting enough respect solely due to how underwhelming last year was for Sacramento. Unquestionably a very solid player, and we need more of those

[Infinity2152]

On the PF thing, I get it, because it allows us to find a good defensive C, while adding a good player. That said, IMO, even playing him at PF, weakens us defensively because we lose the ability to play a POA defender. Also, I'm against adding anyone who would bump Matas back in the offensive pecking order, especially someone who isn't a legit #1 option.

So again, I see the logic, but I disagree that it's a good move.

Please don't take my disagreement as not loving the fact that you bring interesting ideas here...KEEP IT UP!

My man! Idea is Giddey, Two way SG, Matas, Sabonis, defensive center. We should have enough cap space to add a high level player at either SG or center. We also have picks/expirings and a new rookie incoming. SG is POA defender, center is rim protector.

I don't view it as necessarily a forever move. I see it as a chance to grab the most valuable player we can, that could possibly fit with our guys. He'd be an extremely valuable trade asset on a team that's pretty asset poor once we lose all these expirings.

Really opposed to waiting and wasting the first $25-30 mill yr of Giddey and another cheap year of Matas, not to mention $70+ mill of expirings. Lot of teams have cap space next summer. People keep saying everybody will outbid us in every trade, most teams don't have 70+ mill of expirings that they're willing to trade, plus all their picks. Think we're in a better position than most to make trades this summer.

The way I see it, Coby/Giddey/Matas/Sabonis is a solid foundation to build upon. I’d trade Coby for a solid C as the next move, but for next year, were a playoff team in the East

Prior to Demar/Zach, Sabonis had his best season at 19/13/8 over 82 games. Hes not getting enough respect solely due to how underwhelming last year was for Sacramento. Unquestionably a very solid player, and we need more of those

They're also forgetting the risk AK decides to stand pat, Coby has a good season, and we re-sign him to $40 mill AAV next summer to pair with Giddey for the next 4 years. If Coby is here past the deadline, he's likely getting a bag, and from us.

Giddey gets re-signed, Coby needs to be traded unless we're prepared for a Giddey/White backcourt. Coby needs to be traded by deadline for maximum value. Let's get the best player we can get.

[GuardianEnzo]

If I were Memphis and had to move somebody, I'd deal Ja and build around JJ and Bane. Obviously a guy with serious question marks off the court and flaws on it, but an unreal basketball athlete. If he's going at a discount that's somebody a team like the Bulls, with no obvious path to an alpha or contention, would have to consider.

[Infinity2152]

If I were Memphis and had to move somebody, I'd deal Ja and build around JJ and Bane. Obviously a guy with serious question marks off the court and flaws on it, but an unreal basketball athlete. If he's going at a discount that's somebody a team like the Bulls, with no obvious path to an alpha or contention, would have to consider.

Ooooh! Would be torn. Really high on Giddey, and he'd reasonably be the centerpiece of a Ja trade. Great fit with bane and JJJ, relatively cheap contract to Ja, horrible fit with Ja. But Morant is young enough and good enough I'd take the chance it could come back and bite us. I think Giddey is going to be great, though. But Ja is already near top tier.

[sco]

If I were Memphis and had to move somebody, I'd deal Ja and build around JJ and Bane. Obviously a guy with serious question marks off the court and flaws on it, but an unreal basketball athlete. If he's going at a discount that's somebody a team like the Bulls, with no obvious path to an alpha or contention, would have to consider.

Ooooh! Would be torn. Really high on Giddey, and he'd reasonably be the centerpiece of a Ja trade. Great fit with bane and JJJ, relatively cheap contract to Ja, horrible fit with Ja. But Morant is young enough and good enough I'd take the chance it could come back and bite us. I think Giddey is going to be great, though. But Ja is already near top tier.

I'm with you. That said, they could do way better for Ja.

[Chi town]

I think these 2nd apron teams will be losing some players and making some trades.

I could see Jalen Smith and Zo or Ayo for Naz Reid.

Wolves basically gets two players for the price of one.

Love Naz Reid with Giddey.

[Infinity2152]

If I were Memphis and had to move somebody, I'd deal Ja and build around JJ and Bane. Obviously a guy with serious question marks off the court and flaws on it, but an unreal basketball athlete. If he's going at a discount that's somebody a team like the Bulls, with no obvious path to an alpha or contention, would have to consider.

Ooooh! Would be torn. Really high on Giddey, and he'd reasonably be the centerpiece of a Ja trade. Great fit with bane and JJJ, relatively cheap contract to Ja, horrible fit with Ja. But Morant is young enough and good enough I'd take the chance it could come back and bite us. I think Giddey is going to be great, though. But Ja is already near top tier.

I'm with you. That said, they could do way better for Ja.

Think in any trade for Ja right now, you're looking at best case getting the next tier down type player. You're not getting a Morant level player for Ja, imo. What would you consider way better than Giddey at 30 mill for the next four years as a starting point?

That's like the main objection in here, lmao! Somebody else will offer more, with no mention of possible offers. Lot of teams that could bid more, like the Spurs or Thunder, would have no need or desire to, imo. I do want to hear who "way better than giddey" they'd be getting. Don't see the Magic sending Banchero or Cavs sending Mitchell, for instance.

He did say Ja going at a discount.