2025 NBA Draft (2)

[Negrodamus]

If we got the first pick i think we would still have some guys thinking we should trade down to get some picks and a advanced stats darling

Sent from my SM-G780G using RealGM mobile app

Doubt it, Cooper Flagg actually has good advanced stats.

[Arsenal]

Was the Evan Turner draft discussion this heated lol? I remember almost everyone wanted the guy, except for me and a few others who wanted Favors or Cousins instead.

And I'll freely admit I wasn't on board with picking Maxey solely due to weak advanced stats. His success was a key factor in deciding to put advanced stats into their proper, limited perspective.

[76ciology]

yall wouldn't have survived the Thad vs Al Thorton days

Thad vs Jeff Green was also a thing back then

[Arsenal]

yall wouldn't have survived the Thad vs Al Thorton days

Baddeus was a great pick. The only superior player picked after him was Marc Gasol, who was almost a Jokic level surprise.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2007.html

Thad Young over Al Thornton would be like taking Airous Bailey over Derik Queen. A total no brainer!

[Negrodamus]

Read on Twitter

Can't believe he's returning to college. They must be giving him an obscene amount of money.

[Mik317]

Was the Evan Turner draft discussion this heated lol? I remember almost everyone wanted the guy, except for me and a few others who wanted Favors or Cousins instead.

And I'll freely admit I wasn't on board with picking Maxey solely due to weak advanced stats. His success was a key factor in deciding to put advanced stats into their proper, limited perspective.

yes. Every time we have had a lottery pick its been pretty "heated"

which as long as no one gets too personal, its great for discussion and honestly one of my favorite parts of this sport lol.

As always there are simply things we don't know and won't know so we can only go off of what we have which is stats and eye tests and yes even vibes lol.

its heightened tension wise because we kinda need to hit on this pick or else we are back to hoping a breaking down giant man's body...stops breaking down as our main source of "hope"

Funny you mention past guys like Turner tho...as it feels like the consensus guys from those periods ended up being the wrong choice (Turner, Noel Okafor, Ben (to a lesser extent) and then Fultz) BUT the other consensus choices at the time didn't really turn out much better. Cousins did end up being a headcase and eventually out of the league...with the correct hindsioght choice being PG. Should have taken CJ over Noel in retrospect....with Giannis being the super retroactive choice of course. KP didn't want to play here so it was moot but Okafor should have been traded ON DRAFT DAY but again who knows if the ownership would allow that...but the real actual choice was Booker. It was Ben vs Ingram; and while better than current Ben..Ingram isn't a world beater and thus the correct choice was Brown who is an outlier developer. Fultz is yeah...it was Tatum so there is that (I again was a Josh Jackson simp which is why I tend to shut the **** up nowadays lol).

So the real pick should thus be Cedric Coward...based off of the above.

[Arsenal]

What do you want to talk about? Decent weather today given it's so close to summer.

How about that Sorber is a better prospect than Queen, especially because he is one year younger (not that you care lol), has much better measurements, superior athleticism, and put up better stats with a worse supporting cast?

Sorber is mocked to go mid to late teens, which is where Queen should be.

I could see the argument for Sorber over Queen. Sorber is a safer bet since he's a way better defender, has an interesting shot profile for a big (like the 73% FT for a big man).

The question is whether you think Sorber has much meat on the bones on offense and if he has the athleticism to defend other larger Cs at the next level. Queen's shortcomings on defense are obvious but he does have good hands (STL% is good for a PF). I think the strength and agility testing is noteworthy but not a total condemnation of his stock (Sorber didn't partake, btw). Queen's future is at PF and he has arguably the most dynamic offensive game in the top of this draft. I value creators of offense for both themselves and others as a superstar trait, so I like Queen better. After watching plenty of games for both along with the statistical evidence, I can see the argument for either, it's really just preference.

See, I can be objective in this conversation even though I've liked Queen more as a prospect. I've had Sorber in my top 10 fairly frequently throughout this conversation. I'm not sure you can show the same objectivity towards Ace since you defend him like he's a family member.

And cut the "age" **** out, I gave you Tatum (19.29 yrs at draft), Brown (19.65), Ingram (18.79), RJ Barrett (19.01) to compare to Ace (18.85) and you just didn't like it so you focused on the older guys to disprove my point. Your arguments have been dishonest and largely strawmen which has made this irritating. The narrative that I have some kind of vendetta against Ace is so remarkably stupid and lacking of reading comprehension that I really should take my own advice and stop engaging.

I'll ignore the insults and personal attacks and focus on the substance of your post here. Derik Queen is not good enough to be the offensive engine on a contender. I mean you are all over Ace for his distribution weaknesses, meanwhile Queen has a putrid 0.79 Assist to Turnover ratio. Why so terrible if he's such a great offensive distributor?

Then factor in his inability to protect the rim or switch on D which are paramount for a modern big, and you have a losing archetype. His very peak upside case is someone like Domantas Sabonis, a guy you can never be a contender with. Basically a guy who puts up numbers on bad or mediocre teams. And that's the upside case.

Meanwhile, Sorber provides exactly what you need as a modern big, rim protection, ability to switch, and can finish on offense so he can play a complementary role alongside a real offensive engine.

[Stanford]

If we got the first pick i think we would still have some guys thinking we should trade down to get some picks and a advanced stats darling

Sent from my SM-G780G using RealGM mobile app

Cooper Flagg is the advanced stat darling. He's the belle of the BPM ball.

[Sixersftw]

Boogie is too fat and will eat himself out of the league.

[Mik317]

I still say he and Doug Collins would have had a deathmatch at mid court

[Arsenal]

Read on Twitter

Can't believe he's returning to college. They must be giving him an obscene amount of money.

Apparently he got $5m from Michigan and did not receive a 1st round draft promise. That'll do it.

[Black Mage]

Do teams ever invite possible draftees to go work out with their roster?

Would be amazing to see a try out style workout with who ever is not in a wheelchair on the sixers before the draft.

I have long wanted this to be a thing, but NBAPA and agents would freak the hell out if a player got hurt doing a draftee workout. I still wish players took more interest in doing it regardless of their agent's and NBAPA desires.

[Negrodamus]

I'll ignore the insults and personal attacks and focus on the substance of your post here. Derik Queen is not good enough to be the offensive engine on a contender. I mean you are all over Ace for his distribution weaknesses, meanwhile Queen has a putrid 0.79 Assist to Turnover ratio. Why so terrible if he's such a great offensive distributor?

Then factor in his inability to protect the rim or switch on D which are paramount for a modern big, and you have a losing archetype. His very peak upside case is someone like Domantas Sabonis, a guy you can never be a contender with. Basically a guy who puts up numbers on bad or mediocre teams. And that's the upside case.

Meanwhile, Sorber provides exactly what you need as a modern big, rim protection, ability to switch, and can finish on offense so he can play a complementary role alongside a real offensive engine.

Not an insult or personal attack; calling you "Deranged" would be a personal attack. Calling the narrative of me having an anti-Ace bias "stupid" is not me calling you stupid. Saying your arguments are "strawmen" and "dishonest" is not calling YOU dishonest. I suppose the bit about your reading comprehension could be interpreted as an insult, and I apologize if that was too harsh. Just wanted to clarify that.

I think the upside case is Alperen Sengun, who had a pretty decent first round in the playoffs. Not sure if Queen or Alperen will ever be a top 10 player in the league, but based on what I'm looking at on the big board, that's the highest level of talent I'm seeing in the general area.

I factor in (possibly too much) how well they finish out the season, which Queen ballooned his scoring output quite a bit while scaling back distribution. He's not the point guard for the team, but watching him, it's clear he has the chops and the stats do back it up (even if he's turnover prone at times). Turnovers can be a concern if it's egregious (part of the reason I'm a bit wary of Kasparas), but I don't really see it as prohibitive in the case of Queen.

I don't know if you in earnest want to hear more of my thoughts about Queen or if it's being used as a parallel argument to negate my argument against Ace, but I can expound more.

[Negrodamus]

Boogie is too fat and will eat himself out of the league.

Not that my arguments for Boogie were rooted in anything other than I wanted an insanely talented C on that team regardless of his personality and I was a UK fan, but the arguments of him destined to get arrested or eat himself out of the league would break my brain on here back then.

That was pretty intense back then, but I think the Ben Simmons one was more contentious for me since he was disguised as a unanimous #1 pick (like Flagg) despite obviously having zero change of developing a shot.

[Negrodamus]

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

New Ringer big board:

1. Flagg
2. Harper.
3. Edgecombe
4. Tre
5. Knueppel
6. Bailey
7. Carter Bryant
8. Queen
9. Maluach
10. Fears

[Sixersftw]

Boogie is too fat and will eat himself out of the league.

Not that my arguments for Boogie were rooted in anything other than I wanted an insanely talented C on that team regardless of his personality and I was a UK fan, but the arguments of him destined to get arrested or eat himself out of the league would break my brain on here back then.

That was pretty intense back then, but I think the Ben Simmons one was more contentious for me since he was disguised as a unanimous #1 pick (like Flagg) despite obviously having zero change of developing a shot.

Despite being a UK fan, I was sympathetic to the weight arguments because wasn't he like the highest bodyfat percentage of a drafted player or something crazy like that? I'm gonna always take a second look at negative outlier stats. The criminality stuff was horse **** and should have always been disregarded.

Towards the top, I was in on Ben. I liked Brown, but not at 3. I hated Ingram and Hield. I guess there was some Ingram backers but I don't remember it being contentious because, like you said, Ben was the unanimous pick.

Honestly, despite the inability to ever develop a shot, Ben Simmons with a normal brain is still a generational player. If he wasn't hell bent on playing pg, if he would drive to the basket, and if he would put up a shot (despite there being no chance that it would go in) when open ... Thats still a god tier PF considering he was the best defender in the league. I basically just described Giannis with less length and more passing.

[76ciology]

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

New Ringer big board:

1. Flagg
2. Harper.
3. Edgecombe
4. Tre
5. Knueppel
6. Bailey
7. Carter Bryant
8. Queen
9. Maluach
10. Fears

I’m watching Edgecombe now, and if he can turn more of those rim attempts into free throws, he could be a legit top 3 option. I’m still unsure about the shooting, he dipped below 30% from three over the last 14 games, and his FT% sits in the mid-70s. I feel like 80% is the real threshold for projecting low risk shooting upside.

Overall, Edgecombe gives me Jrue Holiday vibes, average offense, super elite defense, and questionable but promising shooting, with maybe better than 60% chance of it developing.

Would love to select him with 3rd overall if only he has a higher upside on offense, atleast a better 3pt shooter. He shot 85% on his FT% prior-Baylor.

I’d be more happy if the choice would be Tre or VJ. Those two would be more reasonable options for me.

[the_process]

I still say he and Doug Collins would have had a deathmatch at mid court

Boogie? Absolutely. Doug would've tried to kill him.

[the_process]

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

New Ringer big board:

1. Flagg
2. Harper.
3. Edgecombe
4. Tre
5. Knueppel
6. Bailey
7. Carter Bryant
8. Queen
9. Maluach
10. Fears

I’m watching Edgecombe now, and if he can turn more of those rim attempts into free throws, he could be a legit top-3 option. I’m still unsure about the shooting, he dipped below 30% from three over the last 14 games, and his FT% sits in the mid-70s. I feel like 80% is the real threshold for projecting low risk shooting upside.

Overall, Edgecombe gives me Jrue Holiday vibes, average offense, elite defense, and questionable but promising shooting, with maybe better than 60% chance of it developing.

Would love to select him with 3rd overall if only he has a higher upside on offense.

More Melton than Jrue. If he could run an offense some he'd be more valuable, but don't see him as anything more than a connective passer.

[the_process]

I think Morey has the highest non-Flagg or Harper grade on Nipples.