What if Giannis chooses and Toronto on short list - Does this change Conversation?

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If anything, the weaker East makes more sense for Giannis to demand a trade to another Eastern Conference team. Thank you Bucks for helping our situation lol.

I guess I just think about it from a competition standpoint, the teams that would have a legit chance in the east don't have the assets to trade for him without completely gutting or overturning their roster, like maybe the cavs would work, but I dont see why the Bucks would try and gift them a chip.

That's why, the Raps are probably the only team that could make a deal and still not gut their starting lineup, if Barnes is the main trade piece. All they are doing is swapping Barnes for Giannis. If the Raps offer Barnes, Dick, Ochai & the 9th pick, is there a team that can better that deal in the East?

Cavs would have to start with Mobley, but what else do they have to offer, that doesn't gut their team?

The Magic are probably the closest to matching what the Raps could offer, if they offer Franz, Black, Da Silva & the 16th pick.

The raps then become a worse defensive AND shooting team, just because we're swapping Scottie for Giannis doesn't mean there's no hit to the team. It would definitely make them better overall, but still not even a legit contender before Giannis' 2 years are up.

These types of trades are worth it when your team has some semblance of stability and success, not coming off the back of 25 and 30 win seasons where your bench is staffed entirely by SRPs and undrafted players. Throw in Giannis' injury issues the last few years, and BIs injury issues his entire career, and you're making a massive gamble for a team that likely still couldn't beat the upper echelon teams in the east.

This is what I mean by gutting the team, it's why KD made no sense, it's why Lillard made no sense, and it's why this would make no sense. In 2-3 years, if the guys we've picked up in the later rounds pan out, absolutely, but now it's nothing more than an attempt for relevancy with no real end game aside from a couple playoff appearances.

If that's the deal offered, yeah the Bucks should take it, but we shouldn't be offering it IMO.

[JB7]

I guess I just think about it from a competition standpoint, the teams that would have a legit chance in the east don't have the assets to trade for him without completely gutting or overturning their roster, like maybe the cavs would work, but I dont see why the Bucks would try and gift them a chip.

That's why, the Raps are probably the only team that could make a deal and still not gut their starting lineup, if Barnes is the main trade piece. All they are doing is swapping Barnes for Giannis. If the Raps offer Barnes, Dick, Ochai & the 9th pick, is there a team that can better that deal in the East?

Cavs would have to start with Mobley, but what else do they have to offer, that doesn't gut their team?

The Magic are probably the closest to matching what the Raps could offer, if they offer Franz, Black, Da Silva & the 16th pick.

The raps then become a worse defensive AND shooting team, just because we're swapping Scottie for Giannis doesn't mean there's no hit to the team. It would definitely make them better overall, but still not even a legit contender before Giannis' 2 years are up.

These types of trades are worth it when your team has some semblance of stability and success, not coming off the back of 25 and 30 win seasons where your bench is staffed entirely by SRPs and undrafted players. Throw in Giannis' injury issues the last few years, and BIs injury issues his entire career, and you're making a massive gamble for a team that likely still couldn't beat the upper echelon teams in the east.

This is what I mean by gutting the team, it's why KD made no sense, it's why Lillard made no sense, and it's why this would make no sense. In 2-3 years, if the guys we've picked up in the later rounds pan out, absolutely, but now it's nothing more than an attempt for relevancy with no real end game aside from a couple playoff appearances.

If that's the deal offered, yeah the Bucks should take it, but we shouldn't be offering it IMO.

In the East, they would definitely be a contender, from a getting to the finals perspective. And then who knows from there.

Problem for the Raps, is they are going to have decisions to make soon on Ochai and Gradey anyways. Do they retain them and go above the apron, and does that mean moving RJ?

In some ways, a deal for Giannis helps clear up a lot of questions. It makes them more competitive in the next 3-5 years, while weakening them beyond that time frame. But with the way the East is going, the window seems to be now.

[sidsid]

I guess I just think about it from a competition standpoint, the teams that would have a legit chance in the east don't have the assets to trade for him without completely gutting or overturning their roster, like maybe the cavs would work, but I dont see why the Bucks would try and gift them a chip.

That's why, the Raps are probably the only team that could make a deal and still not gut their starting lineup, if Barnes is the main trade piece. All they are doing is swapping Barnes for Giannis. If the Raps offer Barnes, Dick, Ochai & the 9th pick, is there a team that can better that deal in the East?

Cavs would have to start with Mobley, but what else do they have to offer, that doesn't gut their team?

The Magic are probably the closest to matching what the Raps could offer, if they offer Franz, Black, Da Silva & the 16th pick.

The raps then become a worse defensive AND shooting team, just because we're swapping Scottie for Giannis doesn't mean there's no hit to the team. It would definitely make them better overall, but still not even a legit contender before Giannis' 2 years are up.

These types of trades are worth it when your team has some semblance of stability and success, not coming off the back of 25 and 30 win seasons where your bench is staffed entirely by SRPs and undrafted players. Throw in Giannis' injury issues the last few years, and BIs injury issues his entire career, and you're making a massive gamble for a team that likely still couldn't beat the upper echelon teams in the east.

This is what I mean by gutting the team, it's why KD made no sense, it's why Lillard made no sense, and it's why this would make no sense. In 2-3 years, if the guys we've picked up in the later rounds pan out, absolutely, but now it's nothing more than an attempt for relevancy with no real end game aside from a couple playoff appearances.

If that's the deal offered, yeah the Bucks should take it, but we shouldn't be offering it IMO.

The argument of gutting starting lineups doesn't make sense in terms of what all-in teams are looking at. These are good but not great playoff teams coming up short with these moves already made. Doing a 2 for 1 when it's Giannis is an extremely easy decision. Giannis will absolutely make them better, and they're already on the doorstep.

Sure, the Raptors may keep their starting rotation, but that currently includes a contract that would be considered bad by the rest of the league at PG, a SG who's upped his value to likely neutral in a trade, an off-injured former star SF who would then be our best player, and a non-shooting role playing C that doesn't even fit with Giannis. In other words, a worse version of any team Giannis has played with on the Bucks in his contender years.

The Knicks would have 2 players in Brunson and OG who they wouldn't trade for any of our players to fit with Giannis - two former players the Knicks traded specifically to upgrade in the starting lineup with OG! - and more importantly, the actual star that Giannis would want to play with.

This is the same for every other thin, all-in team.

[Scase]

That's why, the Raps are probably the only team that could make a deal and still not gut their starting lineup, if Barnes is the main trade piece. All they are doing is swapping Barnes for Giannis. If the Raps offer Barnes, Dick, Ochai & the 9th pick, is there a team that can better that deal in the East?

Cavs would have to start with Mobley, but what else do they have to offer, that doesn't gut their team?

The Magic are probably the closest to matching what the Raps could offer, if they offer Franz, Black, Da Silva & the 16th pick.

The raps then become a worse defensive AND shooting team, just because we're swapping Scottie for Giannis doesn't mean there's no hit to the team. It would definitely make them better overall, but still not even a legit contender before Giannis' 2 years are up.

These types of trades are worth it when your team has some semblance of stability and success, not coming off the back of 25 and 30 win seasons where your bench is staffed entirely by SRPs and undrafted players. Throw in Giannis' injury issues the last few years, and BIs injury issues his entire career, and you're making a massive gamble for a team that likely still couldn't beat the upper echelon teams in the east.

This is what I mean by gutting the team, it's why KD made no sense, it's why Lillard made no sense, and it's why this would make no sense. In 2-3 years, if the guys we've picked up in the later rounds pan out, absolutely, but now it's nothing more than an attempt for relevancy with no real end game aside from a couple playoff appearances.

If that's the deal offered, yeah the Bucks should take it, but we shouldn't be offering it IMO.

In the East, they would definitely be a contender, from a getting to the finals perspective. And then who knows from there.

Problem for the Raps, is they are going to have decisions to make soon on Ochai and Gradey anyways. Do they retain them and go above the apron, and does that mean moving RJ?

In some ways, a deal for Giannis helps clear up a lot of questions. It makes them more competitive in the next 3-5 years, while weakening them beyond that time frame. But with the way the East is going, the window seems to be now.

Contenders are not conference dependent, it refers to whether or not they are legitimate contenders for the chip. If you coast through a conference that can barely post 5 winning records out of 16 teams, that doesn't make you a contender for the chip, it makes you cannon fodder for the real teams out west.

The nets in 01-02 and 02-03 made the finals and had 0% chance of winning it, and they made it there by being the best of the worst. No one ever considered them contenders. This is very much the same type of situation, sure you'll do well in your conference, but you'll still get smoked by real teams in the west.

[JB7]

The raps then become a worse defensive AND shooting team, just because we're swapping Scottie for Giannis doesn't mean there's no hit to the team. It would definitely make them better overall, but still not even a legit contender before Giannis' 2 years are up.

These types of trades are worth it when your team has some semblance of stability and success, not coming off the back of 25 and 30 win seasons where your bench is staffed entirely by SRPs and undrafted players. Throw in Giannis' injury issues the last few years, and BIs injury issues his entire career, and you're making a massive gamble for a team that likely still couldn't beat the upper echelon teams in the east.

This is what I mean by gutting the team, it's why KD made no sense, it's why Lillard made no sense, and it's why this would make no sense. In 2-3 years, if the guys we've picked up in the later rounds pan out, absolutely, but now it's nothing more than an attempt for relevancy with no real end game aside from a couple playoff appearances.

If that's the deal offered, yeah the Bucks should take it, but we shouldn't be offering it IMO.

In the East, they would definitely be a contender, from a getting to the finals perspective. And then who knows from there.

Problem for the Raps, is they are going to have decisions to make soon on Ochai and Gradey anyways. Do they retain them and go above the apron, and does that mean moving RJ?

In some ways, a deal for Giannis helps clear up a lot of questions. It makes them more competitive in the next 3-5 years, while weakening them beyond that time frame. But with the way the East is going, the window seems to be now.

Contenders are not conference dependent, it refers to whether or not they are legitimate contenders for the chip. If you coast through a conference that can barely post 5 winning records out of 16 teams, that doesn't make you a contender for the chip, it makes you cannon fodder for the real teams out west.

The nets in 01-02 and 02-03 made the finals and had 0% chance of winning it, and they made it there by being the best of the worst. No one ever considered them contenders. This is very much the same type of situation, sure you'll do well in your conference, but you'll still get smoked by real teams in the west.

That depends on how the West teams come out of their conference play. If by the time they get to the finals they have a bunch of injuries, from playing three high intensity rounds of playoff basketball, they might be more susceptible to losing in the finals.

This is the advantage East teams have. They don't have the same level of competition, and could potentially have a much lighter run through their conference, such as Boston last year.

[Scase]

In the East, they would definitely be a contender, from a getting to the finals perspective. And then who knows from there.

Problem for the Raps, is they are going to have decisions to make soon on Ochai and Gradey anyways. Do they retain them and go above the apron, and does that mean moving RJ?

In some ways, a deal for Giannis helps clear up a lot of questions. It makes them more competitive in the next 3-5 years, while weakening them beyond that time frame. But with the way the East is going, the window seems to be now.

Contenders are not conference dependent, it refers to whether or not they are legitimate contenders for the chip. If you coast through a conference that can barely post 5 winning records out of 16 teams, that doesn't make you a contender for the chip, it makes you cannon fodder for the real teams out west.

The nets in 01-02 and 02-03 made the finals and had 0% chance of winning it, and they made it there by being the best of the worst. No one ever considered them contenders. This is very much the same type of situation, sure you'll do well in your conference, but you'll still get smoked by real teams in the west.

That depends on how the West teams come out of their conference play. If by the time they get to the finals they have a bunch of injuries, from playing three high intensity rounds of playoff basketball, they might be more susceptible to losing in the finals.

This is the advantage East teams have. They don't have the same level of competition, and could potentially have a much lighter run through their conference, such as Boston last year.

Ok but we're using the Raps as the example here, Scottie has played 60 and 65 games the last 2 seasons, and while I'm not going to call him injury prone, he's not been an ironman either. BI has been chronically injured for the last 7-8 years, Giannis has been over 70 games once in the last 6 seasons and missed considerable playoff time as well, so it's not really a great place to start.

If you mean the hypothetical non Raps team he goes to, yeah you could be right, but I wouldn't put money on it.

[Pointgod]

I guess I just think about it from a competition standpoint, the teams that would have a legit chance in the east don't have the assets to trade for him without completely gutting or overturning their roster, like maybe the cavs would work, but I dont see why the Bucks would try and gift them a chip.

That's why, the Raps are probably the only team that could make a deal and still not gut their starting lineup, if Barnes is the main trade piece. All they are doing is swapping Barnes for Giannis. If the Raps offer Barnes, Dick, Ochai & the 9th pick, is there a team that can better that deal in the East?

Cavs would have to start with Mobley, but what else do they have to offer, that doesn't gut their team?

The Magic are probably the closest to matching what the Raps could offer, if they offer Franz, Black, Da Silva & the 16th pick.

The raps then become a worse defensive AND shooting team, just because we're swapping Scottie for Giannis doesn't mean there's no hit to the team. It would definitely make them better overall, but still not even a legit contender before Giannis' 2 years are up.

These types of trades are worth it when your team has some semblance of stability and success, not coming off the back of 25 and 30 win seasons where your bench is staffed entirely by SRPs and undrafted players. Throw in Giannis' injury issues the last few years, and BIs injury issues his entire career, and you're making a massive gamble for a team that likely still couldn't beat the upper echelon teams in the east.

This is what I mean by gutting the team, it's why KD made no sense, it's why Lillard made no sense, and it's why this would make no sense. In 2-3 years, if the guys we've picked up in the later rounds pan out, absolutely, but now it's nothing more than an attempt for relevancy with no real end game aside from a couple playoff appearances.

If that's the deal offered, yeah the Bucks should take it, but we shouldn't be offering it IMO.

You make that trade and figure the rest out later. Giannis raises your floor and he’s easier to build around than Scottie. This is in no way the final form of the team, but you essentially still have Ingram, RJ, Poeltl and Quickley to trade. You make this trade and you still have pieces to build around Giannis. Although I’m highly skeptical Milwaukee is making this trade without Poeltl or Quickley

[JB7]

Contenders are not conference dependent, it refers to whether or not they are legitimate contenders for the chip. If you coast through a conference that can barely post 5 winning records out of 16 teams, that doesn't make you a contender for the chip, it makes you cannon fodder for the real teams out west.

The nets in 01-02 and 02-03 made the finals and had 0% chance of winning it, and they made it there by being the best of the worst. No one ever considered them contenders. This is very much the same type of situation, sure you'll do well in your conference, but you'll still get smoked by real teams in the west.

That depends on how the West teams come out of their conference play. If by the time they get to the finals they have a bunch of injuries, from playing three high intensity rounds of playoff basketball, they might be more susceptible to losing in the finals.

This is the advantage East teams have. They don't have the same level of competition, and could potentially have a much lighter run through their conference, such as Boston last year.

Ok but we're using the Raps as the example here, Scottie has played 60 and 65 games the last 2 seasons, and while I'm not going to call him injury prone, he's not been an ironman either. BI has been chronically injured for the last 7-8 years, Giannis has been over 70 games once in the last 6 seasons and missed considerable playoff time as well, so it's not really a great place to start.

If you mean the hypothetical non Raps team he goes to, yeah you could be right, but I wouldn't put money on it.

The reason Giannis is probably interested in staying in the East, is not only that the path is easier, the chances of him making to the Finals healthier is much greater, because of that easier path. Curry is the perfect example. The strain of getting the Warriors to a decent seed, plus all the high intensity play of the early playoffs in the West for them, ultimately took its toll on his body.

Once the Raps move into a mode of trying to contend, I would expect to see less time lost due to injury. Not because injuries are not happening, but rather they probably would just play through more of the minor stuff, compared to the previous two seasons, where the team was outright trying to tank, and happy to sit players.

[WuTang_CMB]

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[Scase]

That's why, the Raps are probably the only team that could make a deal and still not gut their starting lineup, if Barnes is the main trade piece. All they are doing is swapping Barnes for Giannis. If the Raps offer Barnes, Dick, Ochai & the 9th pick, is there a team that can better that deal in the East?

Cavs would have to start with Mobley, but what else do they have to offer, that doesn't gut their team?

The Magic are probably the closest to matching what the Raps could offer, if they offer Franz, Black, Da Silva & the 16th pick.

The raps then become a worse defensive AND shooting team, just because we're swapping Scottie for Giannis doesn't mean there's no hit to the team. It would definitely make them better overall, but still not even a legit contender before Giannis' 2 years are up.

These types of trades are worth it when your team has some semblance of stability and success, not coming off the back of 25 and 30 win seasons where your bench is staffed entirely by SRPs and undrafted players. Throw in Giannis' injury issues the last few years, and BIs injury issues his entire career, and you're making a massive gamble for a team that likely still couldn't beat the upper echelon teams in the east.

This is what I mean by gutting the team, it's why KD made no sense, it's why Lillard made no sense, and it's why this would make no sense. In 2-3 years, if the guys we've picked up in the later rounds pan out, absolutely, but now it's nothing more than an attempt for relevancy with no real end game aside from a couple playoff appearances.

If that's the deal offered, yeah the Bucks should take it, but we shouldn't be offering it IMO.

You make that trade and figure the rest out later. Giannis raises your floor and he’s easier to build around than Scottie. This is in no way the final form of the team, but you essentially still have Ingram, RJ, Poeltl and Quickley to trade. You make this trade and you still have pieces to build around Giannis. Although I’m highly skeptical Milwaukee is making this trade without Poeltl or Quickley

I'm not against the trade, I'm against the mindset that it makes us a contender.

That depends on how the West teams come out of their conference play. If by the time they get to the finals they have a bunch of injuries, from playing three high intensity rounds of playoff basketball, they might be more susceptible to losing in the finals.

This is the advantage East teams have. They don't have the same level of competition, and could potentially have a much lighter run through their conference, such as Boston last year.

Ok but we're using the Raps as the example here, Scottie has played 60 and 65 games the last 2 seasons, and while I'm not going to call him injury prone, he's not been an ironman either. BI has been chronically injured for the last 7-8 years, Giannis has been over 70 games once in the last 6 seasons and missed considerable playoff time as well, so it's not really a great place to start.

If you mean the hypothetical non Raps team he goes to, yeah you could be right, but I wouldn't put money on it.

The reason Giannis is probably interested in staying in the East, is not only that the path is easier, the chances of him making to the Finals healthier is much greater, because of that easier path. Curry is the perfect example. The strain of getting the Warriors to a decent seed, plus all the high intensity play of the early playoffs in the West for them, ultimately took its toll on his body.

Once the Raps move into a mode of trying to contend, I would expect to see less time lost due to injury. Not because injuries are not happening, but rather they probably would just play through more of the minor stuff, compared to the previous two seasons, where the team was outright trying to tank, and happy to sit players.

I'm not arguing that though, getting to the finals in a weak conference doesn't make you a legit contender, the quality of the team does. A college team playing in a conference of highschool teams is a lock to make it to the finals, but not a contender if the other conference is filled with NBA teams.

Look at the Cavs, 2nd best record in the league, best in the east, and clapped in the second round.

[Pointgod]

The raps then become a worse defensive AND shooting team, just because we're swapping Scottie for Giannis doesn't mean there's no hit to the team. It would definitely make them better overall, but still not even a legit contender before Giannis' 2 years are up.

These types of trades are worth it when your team has some semblance of stability and success, not coming off the back of 25 and 30 win seasons where your bench is staffed entirely by SRPs and undrafted players. Throw in Giannis' injury issues the last few years, and BIs injury issues his entire career, and you're making a massive gamble for a team that likely still couldn't beat the upper echelon teams in the east.

This is what I mean by gutting the team, it's why KD made no sense, it's why Lillard made no sense, and it's why this would make no sense. In 2-3 years, if the guys we've picked up in the later rounds pan out, absolutely, but now it's nothing more than an attempt for relevancy with no real end game aside from a couple playoff appearances.

If that's the deal offered, yeah the Bucks should take it, but we shouldn't be offering it IMO.

You make that trade and figure the rest out later. Giannis raises your floor and he’s easier to build around than Scottie. This is in no way the final form of the team, but you essentially still have Ingram, RJ, Poeltl and Quickley to trade. You make this trade and you still have pieces to build around Giannis. Although I’m highly skeptical Milwaukee is making this trade without Poeltl or Quickley

I'm not against the trade, I'm against the mindset that it makes us a contender.

Agreed that trade alone doesn’t make us a contender but I think it leaves enough pieces for the next 2-3 moves to make us a contender. I just believe it’s fundamentally easier to build around Giannis than it is to build around Scottie despite the cost to acquire Giannis.

[Scase]

You make that trade and figure the rest out later. Giannis raises your floor and he’s easier to build around than Scottie. This is in no way the final form of the team, but you essentially still have Ingram, RJ, Poeltl and Quickley to trade. You make this trade and you still have pieces to build around Giannis. Although I’m highly skeptical Milwaukee is making this trade without Poeltl or Quickley

I'm not against the trade, I'm against the mindset that it makes us a contender.

Agreed that trade alone doesn’t make us a contender but I think it leaves enough pieces for the next 2-3 moves to make us a contender. I just believe it’s fundamentally easier to build around Giannis than it is to build around Scottie despite the cost to acquire Giannis.

Realistically those post Giannis trades would need a year or two of fleshing out before turning into a legit title threat, and by then, his contract is up and I can't see any reason to stay tbh.

This would be the inverse of the Kawhi move, team that has achieved nothing and you push for that major piece, vs team that has everything in place and all you're missing is that piece. It's not one I would put a lot of money behind.

[TheRaptor!]

I'm not against the trade, I'm against the mindset that it makes us a contender.

Agreed that trade alone doesn’t make us a contender but I think it leaves enough pieces for the next 2-3 moves to make us a contender. I just believe it’s fundamentally easier to build around Giannis than it is to build around Scottie despite the cost to acquire Giannis.

Realistically those post Giannis trades would need a year or two of fleshing out before turning into a legit title threat, and by then, his contract is up and I can't see any reason to stay tbh.

This would be the inverse of the Kawhi move, team that has achieved nothing and you push for that major piece, vs team that has everything in place and all you're missing is that piece. It's not one I would put a lot of money behind.

in my opinion, your takes are bad.

Consistency wrong, including your valuation on our players and potential outlook of the Raptors with Giannis

[JB7]

The raps then become a worse defensive AND shooting team, just because we're swapping Scottie for Giannis doesn't mean there's no hit to the team. It would definitely make them better overall, but still not even a legit contender before Giannis' 2 years are up.

These types of trades are worth it when your team has some semblance of stability and success, not coming off the back of 25 and 30 win seasons where your bench is staffed entirely by SRPs and undrafted players. Throw in Giannis' injury issues the last few years, and BIs injury issues his entire career, and you're making a massive gamble for a team that likely still couldn't beat the upper echelon teams in the east.

This is what I mean by gutting the team, it's why KD made no sense, it's why Lillard made no sense, and it's why this would make no sense. In 2-3 years, if the guys we've picked up in the later rounds pan out, absolutely, but now it's nothing more than an attempt for relevancy with no real end game aside from a couple playoff appearances.

If that's the deal offered, yeah the Bucks should take it, but we shouldn't be offering it IMO.

You make that trade and figure the rest out later. Giannis raises your floor and he’s easier to build around than Scottie. This is in no way the final form of the team, but you essentially still have Ingram, RJ, Poeltl and Quickley to trade. You make this trade and you still have pieces to build around Giannis. Although I’m highly skeptical Milwaukee is making this trade without Poeltl or Quickley

I'm not against the trade, I'm against the mindset that it makes us a contender.

Ok but we're using the Raps as the example here, Scottie has played 60 and 65 games the last 2 seasons, and while I'm not going to call him injury prone, he's not been an ironman either. BI has been chronically injured for the last 7-8 years, Giannis has been over 70 games once in the last 6 seasons and missed considerable playoff time as well, so it's not really a great place to start.

If you mean the hypothetical non Raps team he goes to, yeah you could be right, but I wouldn't put money on it.

The reason Giannis is probably interested in staying in the East, is not only that the path is easier, the chances of him making to the Finals healthier is much greater, because of that easier path. Curry is the perfect example. The strain of getting the Warriors to a decent seed, plus all the high intensity play of the early playoffs in the West for them, ultimately took its toll on his body.

Once the Raps move into a mode of trying to contend, I would expect to see less time lost due to injury. Not because injuries are not happening, but rather they probably would just play through more of the minor stuff, compared to the previous two seasons, where the team was outright trying to tank, and happy to sit players.

I'm not arguing that though, getting to the finals in a weak conference doesn't make you a legit contender, the quality of the team does. A college team playing in a conference of highschool teams is a lock to make it to the finals, but not a contender if the other conference is filled with NBA teams.

Look at the Cavs, 2nd best record in the league, best in the east, and clapped in the second round.

Sometimes, as a team, you just need to take a shot when the opportunity presents itself. Raps are in a good position to trade for Giannis, a top 5 player, and still have a decent roster around him. Combined with how weak the East currently is, I think it is an opportunity that would be hard to pass up. If they wait another few years, to accumulate more assets, by then the East could have turned around a bit, and a top 5 player might not be available.

A team can't win a chip (contend) if it can't even make the finals.

[StopitLeo]

I guess I just think about it from a competition standpoint, the teams that would have a legit chance in the east don't have the assets to trade for him without completely gutting or overturning their roster, like maybe the cavs would work, but I dont see why the Bucks would try and gift them a chip.

That's why, the Raps are probably the only team that could make a deal and still not gut their starting lineup, if Barnes is the main trade piece. All they are doing is swapping Barnes for Giannis. If the Raps offer Barnes, Dick, Ochai & the 9th pick, is there a team that can better that deal in the East?

Cavs would have to start with Mobley, but what else do they have to offer, that doesn't gut their team?

The Magic are probably the closest to matching what the Raps could offer, if they offer Franz, Black, Da Silva & the 16th pick.

The raps then become a worse defensive AND shooting team, just because we're swapping Scottie for Giannis doesn't mean there's no hit to the team. It would definitely make them better overall, but still not even a legit contender before Giannis' 2 years are up.

These types of trades are worth it when your team has some semblance of stability and success, not coming off the back of 25 and 30 win seasons where your bench is staffed entirely by SRPs and undrafted players. Throw in Giannis' injury issues the last few years, and BIs injury issues his entire career, and you're making a massive gamble for a team that likely still couldn't beat the upper echelon teams in the east.

This is what I mean by gutting the team, it's why KD made no sense, it's why Lillard made no sense, and it's why this would make no sense. In 2-3 years, if the guys we've picked up in the later rounds pan out, absolutely, but now it's nothing more than an attempt for relevancy with no real end game aside from a couple playoff appearances.

If that's the deal offered, yeah the Bucks should take it, but we shouldn't be offering it IMO.

It is rare that a team can be a realistic contender without an MVP calibre player on the roster. The odds of finding one in the draft or acquiring one through trade or free agency is so low that if there is an opportunity to add Giannis you basically have to do it and then figure it out.

The alternative is hoping Scottie reaches that MVP tier or that we get a "sum greater than its parts" situation with multiple perennial All-NBA and All-Star players. Both of those are unlikely, especially the latter.

Pinning your hopes on picks taking this roster to the next level is setting yourself up for disappointment. It's not like we'd just need draft picks to "pan out"; we would need to draft an MVP level player, which is almost a crapshoot outside the top pick (who even then only reaches that level around 50% of the time).

[Scase]

You make that trade and figure the rest out later. Giannis raises your floor and he’s easier to build around than Scottie. This is in no way the final form of the team, but you essentially still have Ingram, RJ, Poeltl and Quickley to trade. You make this trade and you still have pieces to build around Giannis. Although I’m highly skeptical Milwaukee is making this trade without Poeltl or Quickley

I'm not against the trade, I'm against the mindset that it makes us a contender.

The reason Giannis is probably interested in staying in the East, is not only that the path is easier, the chances of him making to the Finals healthier is much greater, because of that easier path. Curry is the perfect example. The strain of getting the Warriors to a decent seed, plus all the high intensity play of the early playoffs in the West for them, ultimately took its toll on his body.

Once the Raps move into a mode of trying to contend, I would expect to see less time lost due to injury. Not because injuries are not happening, but rather they probably would just play through more of the minor stuff, compared to the previous two seasons, where the team was outright trying to tank, and happy to sit players.

I'm not arguing that though, getting to the finals in a weak conference doesn't make you a legit contender, the quality of the team does. A college team playing in a conference of highschool teams is a lock to make it to the finals, but not a contender if the other conference is filled with NBA teams.

Look at the Cavs, 2nd best record in the league, best in the east, and clapped in the second round.

Sometimes, as a team, you just need to take a shot when the opportunity presents itself. Raps are in a good position to trade for Giannis, a top 5 player, and still have a decent roster around him. Combined with how weak the East currently is, I think it is an opportunity that would be hard to pass up. If they wait another few years, to accumulate more assets, by then the East could have turned around a bit, and a top 5 player might not be available.

A team can't win a chip (contend) if it can't even make the finals.

That's why, the Raps are probably the only team that could make a deal and still not gut their starting lineup, if Barnes is the main trade piece. All they are doing is swapping Barnes for Giannis. If the Raps offer Barnes, Dick, Ochai & the 9th pick, is there a team that can better that deal in the East?

Cavs would have to start with Mobley, but what else do they have to offer, that doesn't gut their team?

The Magic are probably the closest to matching what the Raps could offer, if they offer Franz, Black, Da Silva & the 16th pick.

The raps then become a worse defensive AND shooting team, just because we're swapping Scottie for Giannis doesn't mean there's no hit to the team. It would definitely make them better overall, but still not even a legit contender before Giannis' 2 years are up.

These types of trades are worth it when your team has some semblance of stability and success, not coming off the back of 25 and 30 win seasons where your bench is staffed entirely by SRPs and undrafted players. Throw in Giannis' injury issues the last few years, and BIs injury issues his entire career, and you're making a massive gamble for a team that likely still couldn't beat the upper echelon teams in the east.

This is what I mean by gutting the team, it's why KD made no sense, it's why Lillard made no sense, and it's why this would make no sense. In 2-3 years, if the guys we've picked up in the later rounds pan out, absolutely, but now it's nothing more than an attempt for relevancy with no real end game aside from a couple playoff appearances.

If that's the deal offered, yeah the Bucks should take it, but we shouldn't be offering it IMO.

It is rare that a team can be a realistic contender without an MVP calibre player on the roster. The odds of finding one in the draft or acquiring one through trade or free agency is so low that if there is an opportunity to add Giannis you basically have to do it and then figure it out.

The alternative is hoping Scottie reaches that MVP tier or that we get a "sum greater than its parts" situation with multiple perennial All-NBA and All-Star players. Both of those are unlikely, especially the latter.

Pinning your hopes on picks taking this roster to the next level is setting yourself up for disappointment. It's not like we'd just need draft picks to "pan out"; we would need to draft an MVP level player, which is almost a crapshoot outside the top pick (who even then only reaches that level around 50% of the time).

To me it all comes down to the cost, what we think we can offer vs what the Bucks would want/expect is the chasm, and I don't think what the bucks would realistically ask for, would leave us with a very competitive team. We were able to do the Kawhi trade because we had a bunch of assets we were able to extract value out of BEFORE we had to get that quality of player.

Those players developed over the years and were flipped, we lack those assets currently to make the follow up trades needed, this is what I mean by leaving a roster gutted. Not to mention this all ignores the high likelihood of Kuzma being attached to any trade, which is another 25-30mil in salary to be dealt with.

I'm not against the move, and push come to shove, I'd probably support it, it sure as **** beats moving forward with the current weak ass roster.

[MiamiSPX]

What this does is make it a very high chance that an already all-in team makes the play to get him knowing they're this close.

The Knicks sending KAT and Bridges over to the Bucks after seeing how they are so close. Or Indy doing the same with Siakam and youth on their end.

The Cavs would be stupid not to after a couple disappointments.

Philly would love to do something like this with Maxey, but I don't think they trust Embiid's knee anymore.

Allen/Garland or Towns/Bridges would be hard to beat. Unless the Bucks get their picks back from the Pelicans for the next 2 years, they have 0 reason to rebuild.

https://www.theringer.com/podcasts/the-bill-simmons-podcast/2025/05/21/the-invincible-okc-knicks-nirvana-and-acceptable-giannis-trades-with-zach-lowe-ariel-helwani-sean-fennessey-and-ben-thompson

Simmons podcast had a good discussion with a podcaster that follows the Bucks (01:38:53). Basically he said, which makes sense, is the Bucks need to get a signature piece back now. They don't control their draft picks so no incentive to tank, and therefore, they need to get the piece they are going to build out from here. He wasn't too high on Mobley. And didn't seem interested at all in the crap NYK would offer (Towns & Bridges). He was more high on Rockets and Spurs, and what they could offer. I found it interesting that while they circled around the idea of a Barnes type, they never actually brought up the Raps or Barnes specifically.

Are we sure the Rockets wouldn't trade Sengun? I know Udoka has been pressuring the FO to make some win-now moves for 2 years now. 2-3 years ago I doubt you find anyone that would take Sengun over Barnes. Now? I bet it's 50/50 and maybe even tilted towards Sengun with recency bias, coming off an All-Star season and being one of the main pieces of a 52-win team.

In a nice piece of business, Stone also signed him well below market value. Barnes will make more next season than Sengun and Jabari combined.

[JB7]

Allen/Garland or Towns/Bridges would be hard to beat. Unless the Bucks get their picks back from the Pelicans for the next 2 years, they have 0 reason to rebuild.

https://www.theringer.com/podcasts/the-bill-simmons-podcast/2025/05/21/the-invincible-okc-knicks-nirvana-and-acceptable-giannis-trades-with-zach-lowe-ariel-helwani-sean-fennessey-and-ben-thompson

Simmons podcast had a good discussion with a podcaster that follows the Bucks (01:38:53). Basically he said, which makes sense, is the Bucks need to get a signature piece back now. They don't control their draft picks so no incentive to tank, and therefore, they need to get the piece they are going to build out from here. He wasn't too high on Mobley. And didn't seem interested at all in the crap NYK would offer (Towns & Bridges). He was more high on Rockets and Spurs, and what they could offer. I found it interesting that while they circled around the idea of a Barnes type, they never actually brought up the Raps or Barnes specifically.

Are we sure the Rockets wouldn't trade Sengun? I know Udoka has been pressuring the FO to make some win-now moves for 2 years now. 2-3 years ago I doubt you find anyone that would take Sengun over Barnes. Now? I bet it's 50/50 and maybe even tilted towards Sengun with recency bias, coming off an All-Star season and being one of the main pieces of a 52-win team.

In a nice piece of business, Stone also signed him well below market value. Barnes will make more next season than Sengun and Jabari combined.

The Rockets and Spurs could offer some attractive assets for sure. Question is whether Giannis would be happy going to the West.

And in terms of Sengun, I think the Bucks might be more interested in Amen than Sengun. If Barnes were being offered by the Raps, I would think the Bucks would be asking for Amen to top the Raps offer.

[WuTang_CMB]

Watch on YouTube

;t=64s

[MiamiSPX]

https://www.theringer.com/podcasts/the-bill-simmons-podcast/2025/05/21/the-invincible-okc-knicks-nirvana-and-acceptable-giannis-trades-with-zach-lowe-ariel-helwani-sean-fennessey-and-ben-thompson

Simmons podcast had a good discussion with a podcaster that follows the Bucks (01:38:53). Basically he said, which makes sense, is the Bucks need to get a signature piece back now. They don't control their draft picks so no incentive to tank, and therefore, they need to get the piece they are going to build out from here. He wasn't too high on Mobley. And didn't seem interested at all in the crap NYK would offer (Towns & Bridges). He was more high on Rockets and Spurs, and what they could offer. I found it interesting that while they circled around the idea of a Barnes type, they never actually brought up the Raps or Barnes specifically.

Are we sure the Rockets wouldn't trade Sengun? I know Udoka has been pressuring the FO to make some win-now moves for 2 years now. 2-3 years ago I doubt you find anyone that would take Sengun over Barnes. Now? I bet it's 50/50 and maybe even tilted towards Sengun with recency bias, coming off an All-Star season and being one of the main pieces of a 52-win team.

In a nice piece of business, Stone also signed him well below market value. Barnes will make more next season than Sengun and Jabari combined.

The Rockets and Spurs could offer some attractive assets for sure. Question is whether Giannis would be happy going to the West.

And in terms of Sengun, I think the Bucks might be more interested in Amen than Sengun. If Barnes were being offered by the Raps, I would think the Bucks would be asking for Amen to top the Raps offer.

There is a story, perpetuated by Bucks fans themselves, that he once asked his accountant how much his take-home pay would be if he played in a non-taxed State lol. Not sure how true that is, but again, it's Bucks fans that say it is. I know his wife also went to university there FWIW.