2025 WESTERN CONFERENCE FINALS: #1 Oklahoma City Thunder vs #6 Minnesota Timberwolves (OKC leads 3-1)

[pipfan]

Awesome game, VERY entertaining. Both teams really went at it
OKC is just a better team-no shame for Minny

[Patches Perry]

Or just own it. Even a little bit.

SGA is an incredible player. MVP player.
SGA is an egregious flopper/free throw merchant... which is even more pronounced considering how physical OKC's great perimeter players play on the other end of the court.

Both can be true.

The #2 statement should end with "as many of the best players in the league are"

I don’t have an issue with calling foul baiters as they are. It's the fact that the criticism is so selective and arbitrary that suggests that many people making those claims are not acting in good faith.

Jokic flopped and foul baited a significant amount in the OKC series too, but when he does it, Doris and the Chorus will praise how high IQ, crafty and smart he is to trick defenders. Luka gets the same descriptions. It's hard to take serious.

Right now, it's the Timberwolves vs. Thunder... so the "whataboutisms" don't cut it.

The egregious flopping in this series has been decidedly one-sided.

[Note: Every NBA team has about a dozen coaches. There's no reason why MN shouldn't have one solely dedicated to helping Edwards learn the nuances of FT merchantry. As teams fight and scramble for fractions of differences around the margins... the Timberwolves have multiple points every game sitting there... available. I think we'll be seeing it more flopping from Edwards next year.]

It's not whataboutism to compare how people react differently to different players doing the same thing (as recently as like 10 days ago) to conclude that maybe these are not principled objections for many of the loudest ones.

[AbeVigodaLive]

The #2 statement should end with "as many of the best players in the league are"

I don’t have an issue with calling foul baiters as they are. It's the fact that the criticism is so selective and arbitrary that suggests that many people making those claims are not acting in good faith.

Jokic flopped and foul baited a significant amount in the OKC series too, but when he does it, Doris and the Chorus will praise how high IQ, crafty and smart he is to trick defenders. Luka gets the same descriptions. It's hard to take serious.

Right now, it's the Timberwolves vs. Thunder... so the "whataboutisms" don't cut it.

The egregious flopping in this series has been decidedly one-sided.

[Note: Every NBA team has about a dozen coaches. There's no reason why MN shouldn't have one solely dedicated to helping Edwards learn the nuances of FT merchantry. As teams fight and scramble for fractions of differences around the margins... the Timberwolves have multiple points every game sitting there... available. I think we'll be seeing it more flopping from Edwards next year.]

It's not whataboutism to compare how people react differently to different players doing the same thing (as recently as like 10 days ago) to conclude that maybe these are not principled objections for many of the loudest ones.

This thread is about OKC vs. MN.

- One team has a decided and objective advantage in this series with flopping.
- I'm just wondering why some OKC fans can't own it... just because it's their favorite team/player?

[bbms]

Jdub has been inconsistent this playoffs (him and Chet), and OKC will likely still win the title. God help the league if either Jdub or Chet continue to develop into more consistent stars...this is just their 2nd and 3rd seasons

Are they able to pay all 3?

Crazy how we were wondering the same thing about OKC 13 years ago if they could keep their core 3 together.

yes. We are fine until 2027 IMO. Problem will be the Cason Wallace extension depending on what level he reach.

i think his market is somewhere between 20mm - 25 mm apy. and it's pretty easy decision since he's obviously better than dort was at this stage of his career and arguably he's currently better than dort. there are some assets the thunder own that i would try to liquidate this offseason so the thunder keep surplus draft capital and dort is one of them - to acquire future picks, but also make room for players like cason, topic and mitchell.

[Dadouv47]

Are they able to pay all 3?

Crazy how we were wondering the same thing about OKC 13 years ago if they could keep their core 3 together.

yes. We are fine until 2027 IMO. Problem will be the Cason Wallace extension depending on what level he reach.

i think his market is somewhere between 20mm - 25 mm apy. and it's pretty easy decision since he's obviously better than dort was at this stage of his career and arguably he's currently better than dort. there are some assets the thunder own that i would try to liquidate so the thunder keep surplus draft capital this offseason and dort is one of them.

I think Dort is really really underrated. He irritates me at times but he was a game changer on defense early game last night and it wasn't the first time.

[bbms]

yes. We are fine until 2027 IMO. Problem will be the Cason Wallace extension depending on what level he reach.

i think his market is somewhere between 20mm - 25 mm apy. and it's pretty easy decision since he's obviously better than dort was at this stage of his career and arguably he's currently better than dort. there are some assets the thunder own that i would try to liquidate so the thunder keep surplus draft capital this offseason and dort is one of them.

I think Dort is really really underrated. He irritates me at times but he was a game changer on defense early game last night and it wasn't the first time.

i think dort is really really overrated. even though he's a good player he really is overrated, just think about him making all defensive first team and dpoy convo. i know he's a popular pick, he's good, though, but not that good. it's hard to crack this thunder's rotation you won't see nobody truly bad playing there.

i do think he's in the way of some pieces to grow and increase in value such as cason, mitchell, topic. thunder needs to keep fresh.

[Patches Perry]

Right now, it's the Timberwolves vs. Thunder... so the "whataboutisms" don't cut it.

The egregious flopping in this series has been decidedly one-sided.

[Note: Every NBA team has about a dozen coaches. There's no reason why MN shouldn't have one solely dedicated to helping Edwards learn the nuances of FT merchantry. As teams fight and scramble for fractions of differences around the margins... the Timberwolves have multiple points every game sitting there... available. I think we'll be seeing it more flopping from Edwards next year.]

It's not whataboutism to compare how people react differently to different players doing the same thing (as recently as like 10 days ago) to conclude that maybe these are not principled objections for many of the loudest ones.

This thread is about OKC vs. MN.

- One team has a decided and objective advantage in this series with flopping.
- I'm just wondering why some OKC fans can't own it... just because it's their favorite team/player?

Source: trust me bro

[Dadouv47]

i think his market is somewhere between 20mm - 25 mm apy. and it's pretty easy decision since he's obviously better than dort was at this stage of his career and arguably he's currently better than dort. there are some assets the thunder own that i would try to liquidate so the thunder keep surplus draft capital this offseason and dort is one of them.

I think Dort is really really underrated. He irritates me at times but he was a game changer on defense early game last night and it wasn't the first time.

i think dort is really really overrated. even though he's a good player he really is overrated, just think about him making all defensive first team and dpoy convo. i know he's a popular pick, he's good, though, but not that good. it's hard to crack this thunder's rotation you won't see nobody truly bad playing there.

i do think he's in the way of some pieces to grow and increase in value such as cason, mitchell, topic. thunder needs to keep fresh.

well you mentioned you always listen to guys like Haralabos Voulgaris but he told Dort was a top 3 defender in OKC with Chet/Caruso and with unique skillset. He's not the only one smart guy that knows the NBA and think Dort is an elite elite defender. I like Cason more because his offensive upside but I still think Dort defensive impact is underrated and we wouldn't be the defensive juggernaut we are without him.

[bbms]

I think Dort is really really underrated. He irritates me at times but he was a game changer on defense early game last night and it wasn't the first time.

i think dort is really really overrated. even though he's a good player he really is overrated, just think about him making all defensive first team and dpoy convo. i know he's a popular pick, he's good, though, but not that good. it's hard to crack this thunder's rotation you won't see nobody truly bad playing there.

i do think he's in the way of some pieces to grow and increase in value such as cason, mitchell, topic. thunder needs to keep fresh.

well you mentioned you always listen to guys like Haralabos Voulgaris but he told Dort was a top 3 defender in OKC with Chet/Caruso and with unique skillset. He's not the only one smart guy that knows the NBA and think Dort is an elite elite defender. I like Cason more because his offensive upside but I still think Dort defensive impact is underrated and we wouldn't be the defensive juggernaut we are without him.

when he's good vs a matchup he's definitely good (see ant getting absolutely dominated) but when his matchup is bad he's really awful (see jamal murray murdering him, with nothing else for him to do on court). his overall impact is below expectations by any metrics and he makes the thunder imo less flexible.

he's an unidimensional defender.

dort does have steel balls, though. always has had. but guys like chet, cason, caruso, jdub, sga... those guys might be roasted in their matchup but they find ways to impact defense positively. dort don't.

[Woodsanity]

Loss is on the two "stars" Randle and Anthony Edwards.

[AbeVigodaLive]

It's not whataboutism to compare how people react differently to different players doing the same thing (as recently as like 10 days ago) to conclude that maybe these are not principled objections for many of the loudest ones.

This thread is about OKC vs. MN.

- One team has a decided and objective advantage in this series with flopping.
- I'm just wondering why some OKC fans can't own it... just because it's their favorite team/player?

Source: trust me bro

Ha. Fair enough.

You're not interested in a serious discussion in good faith. You're just one of THOSE types of posters. All good. Now I know.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Loss is on the two "stars" Randle and Anthony Edwards.

Yes. But to very varying degrees.

The way people are combining the stats between the two is a bit of a disservice to the better player. It's similar to when people group Wiggins and Towns together in discussions about their time together in Minnesota.

- Both are culpable. But one was so much more miserably terrible than the other that comparing them detracts from the message a bit. Like yesterday, Randle was unplayable. He was benched.

[FarBeyondDriven]

Finch should get a lot of blame. The G.M. drafted Dillingham and Shannon Jr. and Finch barely played them all season. Both are future starters and should be helping right now. Huge missed opportunity to develop them this season. Connelly needs to move on from Conley and force his hand by not signing a different vet. Conley does absolutely nothing on offense and is barely half the defender he used to be. He''s completely washed and shouldn't be starting at this point and this Finch's fault.

Connolly and the front office ruined those picks. Neither is an NBA rotation player nonetheless a starter. Dillingham has no usable NBA skills as his scoring will be negated by his defense every single moment on the floor.. Shannon is an energy guy only. Also a very porous defender.

I'll be gleefully reminding you of how awful this take is when they're both starters. I actually don't think Dillingham was the correct choice for the Wolves though, not because of his talent but because he is better with the ball in his hands and the offense runs through Ant so it's just a bad fit.

[MNRunLeft]

Thank you for providing the exact its just different when my fav players/teams do it rationale that I was talking about in my post. You ignore all data that disprove the claims and all examples of other players doing it egregiously. Hell, as SGA pointed out, nobody cared about him doing it until he became a threat to yall. Totally unserious bad faith criticisms.

IMO its less no one cared until now and more because of the spotlight these games are now getting and how blatant it was particularly in game one. No different than Brunson last year and Harden before them, it becomes more a mainstream convo when it happens on a larger stage and becomes works its way into the day to day news cycle. Also hard to compare Jokic to SGA when it comes to foul baiting, I don't think anyone would claim SGA plays through more contact than Jokic and Jokic certainly doesn't end up on the floor to nearly the extent SGA does. Refs miss calls and get fooled by reactions every game so its not new and no one expects them to get them all right but I think at the same time it would probably be in the leagues interest to make an attempt to curtail some of the foul baiting and embellishing that occurs by making it a point of emphasis for refs and in some cases making embellishment a foul of sorts be it a common or technical for cases that are particularly egregious. If you are going to flail to the ground and act like you took an elbow to the chin only to have the refs go look at the monitor and see there was no contact and just a great acting job that should be a foul on the flopper.

[Woodsanity]

Loss is on the two "stars" Randle and Anthony Edwards.

Yes. But to very varying degrees.

The way people are combining the stats between the two is a bit of a disservice to the better player. It's similar to when people group Wiggins and Towns together in discussions about their time together in Minnesota.

- Both are culpable. But one was so much more miserably terrible than the other that comparing them detracts from the message a bit. Like yesterday, Randle was unplayable. He was benched.

Randle was definitely far worse but the expectations between Randle and Ant are very different.

[sikma42]

Loss is on the two "stars" Randle and Anthony Edwards.

Yes. But to very varying degrees.

The way people are combining the stats between the two is a bit of a disservice to the better player. It's similar to when people group Wiggins and Towns together in discussions about their time together in Minnesota.

- Both are culpable. But one was so much more miserably terrible than the other that comparing them detracts from the message a bit. Like yesterday, Randle was unplayable. He was benched.

I'd argue that Edwards was worse. AE has the entire offense built around him and is the one responsible for creating. He did nothing. Randle is a secondary guy how had a bad game. Idk, the main thing yesterday that bothered me with Randle was him giving up some rebounds.

[Domejandro]

Loss is on the two "stars" Randle and Anthony Edwards.

Yes. But to very varying degrees.

The way people are combining the stats between the two is a bit of a disservice to the better player. It's similar to when people group Wiggins and Towns together in discussions about their time together in Minnesota.

- Both are culpable. But one was so much more miserably terrible than the other that comparing them detracts from the message a bit. Like yesterday, Randle was unplayable. He was benched.

I'd argue that Edwards was worse. AE has the entire offense built around him and is the one responsible for creating. He did nothing. Randle is a secondary guy how had a bad game. Idk, the main thing yesterday that bothered me with Randle was him giving up some rebounds.

Read on Twitter

Being honest, OKC's strategy was to eliminate Anthony Edwards and it worked. Getting doubled in the front court for nearly half of the possessions with that tight of defender distance is insane.

If Minnesota turned the ball over less and pretended to try on the glass, they likely would have won. Anthony Edwards trying to shoot over that much pressure would not have been productive or efficient.

[Dadouv47]

Yes. But to very varying degrees.

The way people are combining the stats between the two is a bit of a disservice to the better player. It's similar to when people group Wiggins and Towns together in discussions about their time together in Minnesota.

- Both are culpable. But one was so much more miserably terrible than the other that comparing them detracts from the message a bit. Like yesterday, Randle was unplayable. He was benched.

I'd argue that Edwards was worse. AE has the entire offense built around him and is the one responsible for creating. He did nothing. Randle is a secondary guy how had a bad game. Idk, the main thing yesterday that bothered me with Randle was him giving up some rebounds.

Read on Twitter

Being honest, OKC's strategy was to eliminate Anthony Edwards and it worked. Getting doubled in the front court for nearly half of the possessions with that tight of defender distance is insane.

If Minnesota turned the ball over less and pretended to try on the glass, they likely would have won. Anthony Edwards trying to shoot over that much pressure would not have been productive or efficient.

agree and people are blaming Ant way too much. He was able to find players that were wide open for 3's and they hit their shots. Wolves had a terrific offensive game and score 40+ pts in the 4th quarter. if I'm not mistaken. OKC just had his A+ game in those playoffs. Maybe Ant should have tried just a bit more to bother our defense but he's wasn't that terrible at all.

[Alatan]

The #2 statement should end with "as many of the best players in the league are"

I don’t have an issue with calling foul baiters as they are. It's the fact that the criticism is so selective and arbitrary that suggests that many people making those claims are not acting in good faith.

Jokic flopped and foul baited a significant amount in the OKC series too, but when he does it, Doris and the Chorus will praise how high IQ, crafty and smart he is to trick defenders. Luka gets the same descriptions. It's hard to take serious.

Right now, it's the Timberwolves vs. Thunder... so the "whataboutisms" don't cut it.

The egregious flopping in this series has been decidedly one-sided.

[Note: Every NBA team has about a dozen coaches. There's no reason why MN shouldn't have one solely dedicated to helping Edwards learn the nuances of FT merchantry. As teams fight and scramble for fractions of differences around the margins... the Timberwolves have multiple points every game sitting there... available. I think we'll be seeing it more flopping from Edwards next year.]

It's not whataboutism to compare how people react differently to different players doing the same thing (as recently as like 10 days ago) to conclude that maybe these are not principled objections for many of the loudest ones.

if you are going to mention Jokic and his flopping compared to FTA, then you should also mention how they were guarded in that series. But we both know you wont. Because no one should be able to touch your guy and Jokic should be mauled so he cant receive the ball because reasons.

So please stop invoking Jokic in further FTA conversation.

[sikma42]

Yes. But to very varying degrees.

The way people are combining the stats between the two is a bit of a disservice to the better player. It's similar to when people group Wiggins and Towns together in discussions about their time together in Minnesota.

- Both are culpable. But one was so much more miserably terrible than the other that comparing them detracts from the message a bit. Like yesterday, Randle was unplayable. He was benched.

I'd argue that Edwards was worse. AE has the entire offense built around him and is the one responsible for creating. He did nothing. Randle is a secondary guy how had a bad game. Idk, the main thing yesterday that bothered me with Randle was him giving up some rebounds.

[tweet][/tweet]

Being honest, OKC's strategy was to eliminate Anthony Edwards and it worked. Getting doubled in the front court for nearly half of the possessions with that tight of defender distance is insane.

If Minnesota turned the ball over less and pretended to try on the glass, they likely would have won. Anthony Edwards trying to shoot over that much pressure would not have been productive or efficient.

He’s need to be able to beat his man and get into the lane consistently. He can let players press him feet from the rim. If he can’t handle that pressure and make teams pay (either scoring or playmaking) then the Wolves have a problem with their star.


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