Is Siakam trade one of the most lopsided trades of recent times?

[Mr Funk]

It's complete cope from Raptors fans that it's actually a Pascal for Ingram trade. The Raptors got lucky that Ingram had a five-month ankle sprain that tanked his value and there's still no sign that he is capable of leading a winning team.

I was surprised that the Raptors traded for Ingram, but I know they did it because they got him at a "discount" (trade wise..not his contract).

I can't help but wonder what the Raptors long term plans are. They have a group of talented players that don't seem to fit well together. Maybe next season is the year that it works out?

Masai hates rebuilding. He loves treadmilling. He wants us to be"ready" to compete when another Kawhi trade materializes.

No, that's Pat Riley. But always with the over-the-top negativity.

[WiggOuts]

Everything leading up to the trade including the trade itself was very bad. They waited too long, his value dropped significantly, there were better offers the year prior, they pretty much sold him when his value was lowest which is malpractice...but...at this point now, the trade looks way better, what the Pacers are doing is irrelevant.

Pascal and a 2nd for BI, Ochai, Walter(im pretty sure there's another pick involved here somwhere) is not that bad. Pascal wanted a MAX and said he wouldn't re-sign with any team not offering it, that KILLED his value and MUST be acknowledged

[wegotthabeet]

Everything leading up to the trade including the trade itself was very bad. They waited too long, his value dropped significantly, there were better offers the year prior, they pretty much sold him when his value was lowest which is malpractice...but...at this point now, the trade looks way better, what the Pacers are doing is irrelevant.

Pascal and a 2nd for BI, Ochai, Walter(im pretty sure there's another pick involved here somwhere) is not that bad. Pascal wanted a MAX and said he wouldn't re-sign with any team not offering it, that KILLED his value and MUST be acknowledged

Masai not hoarding draft picks reminds me of when Vince Carter refused to dunk. If you're the best or one of at a particular thing then why ever deviate from the thing? He got his start as a scout and has identified gems at every point in the draft over years/decades. It will never make sense to me.

You're right though they waited way too long to move him. He was making gigantic leaps in his development year over year during his rookie deal, but it became evident that after the bubble + the tampa season that he would never become the unquestioned No. 1 option on a title-winning team. The best time to trade him would've been at the 2021 draft. They already had a top 4 pick and Siakam probably gets you 7 + 14 from Golden State at the time. That's three lottery picks to kick start a rebuild.

The lesson, especially with this new CBA is that you can hand out the 2nd deal to these players, but you have to decide what direction you're heading before they enter the last year of that 2nd deal. If your team has an all-star level player, but you're not competitive you have to move them by the middle of that 2nd contract. Even if you're team is really competitive and you have two or three of this level of player you still might have to move them.

[WiggOuts]

Everything leading up to the trade including the trade itself was very bad. They waited too long, his value dropped significantly, there were better offers the year prior, they pretty much sold him when his value was lowest which is malpractice...but...at this point now, the trade looks way better, what the Pacers are doing is irrelevant.

Pascal and a 2nd for BI, Ochai, Walter(im pretty sure there's another pick involved here somwhere) is not that bad. Pascal wanted a MAX and said he wouldn't re-sign with any team not offering it, that KILLED his value and MUST be acknowledged

Masai not hoarding draft picks reminds me of when Vince Carter refused to dunk. If you're the best or one of at a particular thing then why ever deviate from the thing? He got his start as a scout and has identified gems at every point in the draft over years/decades. It will never make sense to me.

You're right though they waited way too long to move him. He was making gigantic leaps in his development year over year during his rookie deal, but it became evident that after the bubble + the tampa season that he would never become the unquestioned No. 1 option on a title-winning team. The best time to trade him would've been at the 2021 draft. They already had a top 4 pick and Siakam probably gets you 7 + 14 from Golden State at the time. That's three lottery picks to kick start a rebuild.

The lesson, especially with this new CBA is that you can hand out the 2nd deal to these players, but you have to decide what direction you're heading before they enter the last year of that 2nd deal. If your team has an all-star level player, but you're not competitive you have to move them by the middle of that 2nd contract. Even if you're team is really competitive and you have two or three of this level of player you still might have to move them.

You said it, Masai is great a drafting yet seems almost reluctant to add high draft picks. It seemed for a while like they were against bringing in too many rookies at a time to until last year. They have no problem loading up the 2nd rounders and undrafted guys tho, maybe thats where they feel they can get steals, how much credit do you really get for drafting in the top 10

[PushDaRock]

lol I love how suddenly Siakam should have warranted all these amazing trade packages when the likes of Sacramento were refusing to include Keegan Murray in any hypothetical deals.

[phanman]

The Pacers traded for the right to pay Siakam an average of 47 million a year and people think its lopsided. In 5 pages its not even mentioned. This place is just bad sometimes.

On this Pacer's roster next to both Turner and Hali, he's easily been worth that contract he signed. I don't agree with OP, but this is as good of a fit for Pascal as there is in the league. He rightfully gets to slot in as the 1B to Hali as a guy who excels in the open court. Carlisle's offensive philosophy fits in perfectly with his style of play. Kudos for the Pacers for targeting him specifically and utilizing dead money + late picks for a guy they wouldn't have been able to sign in free agency.

not sure i’d go that far, but Masai has been one of the worst GMs in the league last five years. To say he lost his fast ball, is even underselling it.

As a rabid Raptors fan, I hate the direction of the current team. I haven't been disconnected from the team like this in a long time.

With that said, I get the hesitancy from Masai on trading Pascal. He was not only Masai's biggest find, but a guy who set the standard for the rest of the organization to be able to work hard and develop within. He gave him every opportunity to make it work with Scottie until it didn't and I think worked with to get him to a new team that would both pay him and appreciate what he brought to the table.

[Johnny Bball]

The Pacers traded for the right to pay Siakam an average of 47 million a year and people think its lopsided. In 5 pages its not even mentioned. This place is just bad sometimes.

On this Pacer's roster next to both Turner and Hali, he's easily been worth that contract he signed. I don't agree with OP, but this is as good of a fit for Pascal as there is in the league. He rightfully gets to slot in as the 1B to Hali and as a guy who excels in the open court, Carlisle's offensive philosophy fits in perfectly with his style of play. Kudos for the Pacers for targeting him specifically and utilizing dead money + late picks for a guy they wouldn't have been able to sign in free agency.

not sure i’d go that far, but Masai has been one of the worst GMs in the league last five years. To say he lost his fast ball, is even underselling it.

As a rabid Raptors fan, I hate the direction of the current team. I haven't been disconnected from the team like this in a long time.

With that said, I get the hesitancy from Masai on trading Pascal. He was not only Masai's biggest find, but a guy who set the standard for the rest of the organization to be able to work hard and develop within. He gave him every opportunity to make it work with Scottie until it didn't and I think worked with to get him to a new team that would both pay him and appreciate what he brought to the table.

Ujiri traded Siakam because in the end he was forced to trade Anunoby. It had nothing to do with Barnes, they just were forced to rip it down.

The return was not stellar because he was going to be paid 47 million a year that very few competing teams could pay. I don't see you really arguing the point, but sure, it works for Indiana to a certain extent and I agree they aren't a loser in this.

[HMFFL]

Masai totally screwed himself for not trading Siakam a lot earlier (at a higher value), and got nothing for him.

Rest of the league screwed up by not beating that terrible offer.

Masai has been straight trash GM since 2019

I agree.
It's nice to see that someone else can see how bad he has been.
Siakam is exactly what Hali needed. Reggie Miller needed too.

[Optimus_Steel]

Siakam’s value wasn’t that high at the time the trade was made. That context matters.

[TheAlchemist]

No, the way TOR and Siakam handled the situation made it very hard to teade value for him.

The issue with Raptors fans (reddit and here) is that they get fed media from the same company that owns the team lol.

That and the whole "Canada" aspect makes a lot of Raptors fans (and used to be myself) serious biased homers.

But you are 1000% right. Masai Ujiri did not handle the departure of the Raptors players, at that time, right. He was to preoccupied with trying to pave the way for Scottie Barnes.

His handling of Siakam was disgusting. Siakam wanted to stay, but Masai didn't want that to happen and the team shunned him out. To a lesser extent same with OG. And of course Fred Van Vleet didn't feel valued and left.

All 3 where major players in this playoffs. All for what? A chance for Scottie Barnes to be a "franchise player". After this down year of Scottie Barnes it's so bad to think the Raptors could've had Siakam, FVV, OG, AND Kevin Durant these last years.

Just think Masai has lost his touch and yes, Siakam was ran out of town.

[Indomitable]

Siakam was traded from the Toronto Raptors to the Indiana Pacers in early 2024. Raptors got Bruce Brown, Kira Lewis Jr., Jordan Nwora, 2 2024 FRPs & 1 conditional 2026 FRP. While Pacers got Pascal Siakam and 1 SRP.

Since then Pacers have gone to the East Finals twice, and this year they have a great chance to go to the NBA Finals.

In contrast, Raptors do not have much to show for it.
* Pacers did not trade any of their promising youngsters.
* Bruce Brown, Kira Lewis Jr & 2026 FRP were traded in order to get Brandon Ingram & Ochai Agbaji.
* Brandon Ingram would have been available anyway in free agency to sign.
* Ochai Agbaji is nothing special.
* Jordan Nwora is out of the NBA.
* The 2 2024 FRPs they selected are also nothing special.

Is this trade one of the most lopsided trades of recent times?

No, the Raptors were not going to win with him.

You act like the Pacers have won 4 rings.

The Raptors got value and turned into players and draft picks.

If the Raptors were the team pushing for the Championship. This would make sense.

[PushDaRock]

Siakam’s value wasn’t that high at the time the trade was made. That context matters.

It was never that high at any point after the 19/20 season before the bubble happened.

[PhilBlackson]

For one, we'll need to at least see what the team looks like once Brandon Ingram is playing while also keeping in mind that the Raps were in the lottery 3 out of the 4 years he was the best player on the team. I personally expect that ratio to flip on it's head.

And how could possibly be true when we're literally watching OKC get a MVP plus enough draft picks to make the Thunder the deepest roster in decades & for the next decade just from trading Paul George?!?! lol stop this nonsense.

[phanman]

The Pacers traded for the right to pay Siakam an average of 47 million a year and people think its lopsided. In 5 pages its not even mentioned. This place is just bad sometimes.

On this Pacer's roster next to both Turner and Hali, he's easily been worth that contract he signed. I don't agree with OP, but this is as good of a fit for Pascal as there is in the league. He rightfully gets to slot in as the 1B to Hali and as a guy who excels in the open court, Carlisle's offensive philosophy fits in perfectly with his style of play. Kudos for the Pacers for targeting him specifically and utilizing dead money + late picks for a guy they wouldn't have been able to sign in free agency.

not sure i’d go that far, but Masai has been one of the worst GMs in the league last five years. To say he lost his fast ball, is even underselling it.

As a rabid Raptors fan, I hate the direction of the current team. I haven't been disconnected from the team like this in a long time.

With that said, I get the hesitancy from Masai on trading Pascal. He was not only Masai's biggest find, but a guy who set the standard for the rest of the organization to be able to work hard and develop within. He gave him every opportunity to make it work with Scottie until it didn't and I think worked with to get him to a new team that would both pay him and appreciate what he brought to the table.

Ujiri traded Siakam because in the end he was forced to trade Anunoby. It had nothing to do with Barnes, they just were forced to rip it down.

The return was not stellar because he was going to be paid 47 million a year that very few competing teams could pay. I don't see you really arguing the point, but sure, it works for Indiana to a certain extent and I agree they aren't a loser in this.

How does it have nothing to do with Barnes when he plays and occupies the same position as Pascal? Do you really think we wouldn't have paid him if we didn't have Scottie to develop?

Out of the two, OG was the one that was never going to get paid in Toronto. Siakam's case was different though considering he was still a fringe All Star candidate in a Toronto uniform.

[Johnny Bball]

On this Pacer's roster next to both Turner and Hali, he's easily been worth that contract he signed. I don't agree with OP, but this is as good of a fit for Pascal as there is in the league. He rightfully gets to slot in as the 1B to Hali and as a guy who excels in the open court, Carlisle's offensive philosophy fits in perfectly with his style of play. Kudos for the Pacers for targeting him specifically and utilizing dead money + late picks for a guy they wouldn't have been able to sign in free agency.


As a rabid Raptors fan, I hate the direction of the current team. I haven't been disconnected from the team like this in a long time.

With that said, I get the hesitancy from Masai on trading Pascal. He was not only Masai's biggest find, but a guy who set the standard for the rest of the organization to be able to work hard and develop within. He gave him every opportunity to make it work with Scottie until it didn't and I think worked with to get him to a new team that would both pay him and appreciate what he brought to the table.

Ujiri traded Siakam because in the end he was forced to trade Anunoby. It had nothing to do with Barnes, they just were forced to rip it down.

The return was not stellar because he was going to be paid 47 million a year that very few competing teams could pay. I don't see you really arguing the point, but sure, it works for Indiana to a certain extent and I agree they aren't a loser in this.

How does it have nothing to do with Barnes when he plays and occupies the same position as Pascal? Do you really think we wouldn't have paid him if we didn't have Scottie to develop?

Out of the two, OG was the one that was never going to get paid in Toronto. Siakam's case was different though considering he was still a fringe All Star candidate in a Toronto uniform.

Lol, Barnes of Siakam can play small forward. And both are be better there. Yes, they would have, which is why they were not trading him until they had to tear it down. They just literally paid Ingram a bunch to do the same thing.

[phanman]

Ujiri traded Siakam because in the end he was forced to trade Anunoby. It had nothing to do with Barnes, they just were forced to rip it down.

The return was not stellar because he was going to be paid 47 million a year that very few competing teams could pay. I don't see you really arguing the point, but sure, it works for Indiana to a certain extent and I agree they aren't a loser in this.

How does it have nothing to do with Barnes when he plays and occupies the same position as Pascal? Do you really think we wouldn't have paid him if we didn't have Scottie to develop?

Out of the two, OG was the one that was never going to get paid in Toronto. Siakam's case was different though considering he was still a fringe All Star candidate in a Toronto uniform.

Lol, Barnes of Siakam can play small forward. And both are be better there. Yes, they would have, which is why they were not trading him until they had to tear it down. They just literally paid Ingram a bunch to do the same thing.

Just because you can play SF doesn't mean it's a good fit. Especially when you compound the issue with a non-shooting center like Poeltl and iffy shooting at guard. This version of Pascal in a Pacer's uniform with a reliable outside jumper is not the same one we seen in Toronto. The ability to play with not one, not two but three great playmakers in Hali, Nembhard and TJ have all allowed him to become a better shooter from deep.

Ingram and Pascal are two completely different players...

[MrGoat]

The Raptors got 3 FRPs for Siakam? As a former Mavs fan I'm still feeling ripped off even though the NBA rigged the lottery for the Mavs to make that trade more equitable

[Reeko]

This guy JumboChalupa always hates on our players but the second they're not Raptors he makes it seem like they're the best.

[mowcrowbar]

New to the NBA?

[Jcity08]

This guy JumboChalupa always hates on our players but the second they're not Raptors he makes it seem like they're the best.

Yup, either Raps fans overrate their players or they dont, cant have it both ways.