Free Agent, Trade, Buyout, Extension & Conversion Thread, 2025 con't

[Celts17Pride]

Don't see Klay Thompson as a Brad Stevens type of acquisition and if the Celtics acquire Gafford I could see Stevens flipping him to another team for salary cap savings and draft capital. Who knows? A lot is up in the air with Porzingis, Horford and Kornet. Go Queta!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[hugepatsfan]

Not directly to your proposal. I appreciate the math of this and have made similar ones myself (without 28}. But more and more I’m thinking regardless of what the trade board and Cs writers are saying, both Jrue and KP have real positive value. Jrue will be by far the best player involved in this and most other proposed deals for the next 2 years, and probably the 3rd of his deal as well. Players as good as him just aren’t available that often. KP is more a roll of the dice, but no long term risk due to expiring, and huge upside.

I know the cost savings has some real value that other teams should be compensated for, and new CBA, etc, etc. But, I feel the talent upgrade of acquiring our guys seems to be vastly under valued or forgotten. think we’ll all be pleasantly surprised at what they fetch in deals.

I think the problem is that a lot of people post "lazy" deals. Not CL, who posted a well thought out idea. But what happens for "casual" discussion is that people just say ok BOS needs to dump a lot of salary and one team has cap space so they get held at gunpoint to give up tons of pick value to clear it all at once". And honestly, if the front office tries to do it all in one swoop like that, they will pay through the nose.

But the smarter thing to do is these type of multi team deals and series of trades vs. one move. Like you said, KP and Holiday still have value on the court. You have to make trades that maximize that value and shave the salary off gradually. This isn't going to get done in one huge move, but non-Celtics fans on the general board and NBA-wide reporters don't usually want to sift through all of that. It's much easier to post one big deal where BOS dumps it all at once.

Absolutely. And, I know it’s fun to figure those things out. I do it all the time myself. But, what I think Brad is great at, that these boards lose sight of sometimes, is knowing the true goal is to keep a contender for JT to rejoin. Ducking the tax this year makes things more sustainable going forward, but at some point the talent/ asset loss outweighs that. Pick 28 isn’t some giant tipping point or anything, but if you come out of this summer with no Jrue, no KP, no Hauser, no pick 28 and no other good players to replace them and your only accomplishment is ducking the tax, you failed.

Is no KP really a relevant factor to building a contender around Tatum when he's back though? Tatum will be out all of next year most likely and even if he does come back how realistic is to expect him to be ready to lead a title push next year? Porzingis isn't under contract beyond that and even from a purely competitive standpoint I'm not sure you can justify re-signing him into his 30s based on the availability issues he's already showed. And on Holiday, if we assume Tatum will be really back for the 26-27 season, that's Jrue's age 36 season and then he'll be under contract for his age 37 season. How much of an asset do we really expect him to be in those years?

If we keep everyone and pay tax next year then the rest of Tatum's window will be spent with us paying repeater tax which means likely less flexibility from ownership since you're paying 4 times the tax and that's at the cost of keeping players I'm really not sure are going to actually help Tatum once he's back. I genuinely question whether Porzingis (age 31 at that point) and Holiday (age 36 at that point) will be assets for a Tatum led 26-27 team and beyond.

[djFan71]

I think the problem is that a lot of people post "lazy" deals. Not CL, who posted a well thought out idea. But what happens for "casual" discussion is that people just say ok BOS needs to dump a lot of salary and one team has cap space so they get held at gunpoint to give up tons of pick value to clear it all at once". And honestly, if the front office tries to do it all in one swoop like that, they will pay through the nose.

But the smarter thing to do is these type of multi team deals and series of trades vs. one move. Like you said, KP and Holiday still have value on the court. You have to make trades that maximize that value and shave the salary off gradually. This isn't going to get done in one huge move, but non-Celtics fans on the general board and NBA-wide reporters don't usually want to sift through all of that. It's much easier to post one big deal where BOS dumps it all at once.

Absolutely. And, I know it’s fun to figure those things out. I do it all the time myself. But, what I think Brad is great at, that these boards lose sight of sometimes, is knowing the true goal is to keep a contender for JT to rejoin. Ducking the tax this year makes things more sustainable going forward, but at some point the talent/ asset loss outweighs that. Pick 28 isn’t some giant tipping point or anything, but if you come out of this summer with no Jrue, no KP, no Hauser, no pick 28 and no other good players to replace them and your only accomplishment is ducking the tax, you failed.

Is no KP really a relevant factor to building a contender around Tatum when he's back though? Tatum will be out all of next year most likely and even if he does come back how realistic is to expect him to be ready to lead a title push next year? Porzingis isn't under contract beyond that and even from a purely competitive standpoint I'm not sure you can justify re-signing him into his 30s based on the availability issues he's already showed. And on Holiday, if we assume Tatum will be really back for the 26-27 season, that's Jrue's age 36 season and then he'll be under contract for his age 37 season. How much of an asset do we really expect him to be in those years?

If we keep everyone and pay tax next year then the rest of Tatum's window will be spent with us paying repeater tax which means likely less flexibility from ownership since you're paying 4 times the tax and that's at the cost of keeping players I'm really not sure are going to actually help Tatum once he's back. I genuinely question whether Porzingis (age 31 at that point) and Holiday (age 36 at that point) will be assets for a Tatum led 26-27 team and beyond.

I’m not advocating keeping everyone, I’m just advocating not using all the assets and ending up with only Patrick Williams and expirings. You have to at least end up with a few good players out of the moves. You could argue Williams could be usable, but it’s not a strong argument and still not good value on his $.

I think with KP you offer him the choice of extending at roughly MLE money or slightly above. He seems to love it here, and his value is shot by unavailability. If he takes that, he’s definitely worth keeping around (assuming you are willing to pay some tax). If not, he’s gone.

Jrue is just harder. Definitely feel like he’d be an asset the rest of his deal. Just not a value. Which is a luxury that’s hard to afford give JT and JB deals. Brad loves him, though, so I don’t think it’s completely out of the question he stays, Very unlikely, though.

[Celts17Pride]

Spurs receive: Jrue Holiday

Celtics receive: Harrison Barnes, Julian Champagne, Blake Wesley, 2025 first-round pick (via Atlanta) - #14

https://clutchpoints.com/nba/san-antonio-spurs/spurs-trade-proposal-jrue-holiday-offseason-celtics-fire-sale

Sign me up, even though this would never happen in my opinion.

[hugepatsfan]

Absolutely. And, I know it’s fun to figure those things out. I do it all the time myself. But, what I think Brad is great at, that these boards lose sight of sometimes, is knowing the true goal is to keep a contender for JT to rejoin. Ducking the tax this year makes things more sustainable going forward, but at some point the talent/ asset loss outweighs that. Pick 28 isn’t some giant tipping point or anything, but if you come out of this summer with no Jrue, no KP, no Hauser, no pick 28 and no other good players to replace them and your only accomplishment is ducking the tax, you failed.

Is no KP really a relevant factor to building a contender around Tatum when he's back though? Tatum will be out all of next year most likely and even if he does come back how realistic is to expect him to be ready to lead a title push next year? Porzingis isn't under contract beyond that and even from a purely competitive standpoint I'm not sure you can justify re-signing him into his 30s based on the availability issues he's already showed. And on Holiday, if we assume Tatum will be really back for the 26-27 season, that's Jrue's age 36 season and then he'll be under contract for his age 37 season. How much of an asset do we really expect him to be in those years?

If we keep everyone and pay tax next year then the rest of Tatum's window will be spent with us paying repeater tax which means likely less flexibility from ownership since you're paying 4 times the tax and that's at the cost of keeping players I'm really not sure are going to actually help Tatum once he's back. I genuinely question whether Porzingis (age 31 at that point) and Holiday (age 36 at that point) will be assets for a Tatum led 26-27 team and beyond.

I’m not advocating keeping everyone, I’m just advocating not using all the assets and ending up with only Patrick Williams and expirings. You have to at least end up with a few good players out of the moves. You could argue Williams could be usable, but it’s not a strong argument and still not good value on his $.

I think with KP you offer him the choice of extending at roughly MLE money or slightly above. He seems to love it here, and his value is shot by unavailability. If he takes that, he’s definitely worth keeping around (assuming you are willing to pay some tax). If not, he’s gone.

Jrue is just harder. Definitely feel like he’d be an asset the rest of his deal. Just not a value. Which is a luxury that’s hard to afford give JT and JB deals. Brad loves him, though, so I don’t think it’s completely out of the question he stays, Very unlikely, though.

I definitely wouldn't give up assets to dump the money just for the sake of avoiding the tax. I guess unless ownership demands it, then you have to.

With guys like Patrick Williams, Klay Thompson, whatever else you end up taking back in these proposals, the idea wouldn't be that you make that your core. I think you do with them like Brad did with other guys before to build the next core - you use them as salary filler and attach picks for upgrades.

My guess is that if Tatum site the year, Brown spends a chunk resting, and they move Jrue/KP/Hauser for a pupu platter of salary that keeps them below the tax... our '26 pick resulting from that season plus whatever salary pupu platter we have from the Jrue/KP/Hauser trades to attach it to nets us a player better than Jrue across the 26-27, 27-28 and 28-29 seasons. Plus the tax reset means ownership's budget can go further in future years too.

I very, very strongly believe that if you want to define a "window" for Tatum it should be the 27-28 and 28-29 seasons. That gives him a year to miss and a year to be rusty. I think dumping salary this offseason puts you in BETTER position to build around him those years.

[djFan71]

Is no KP really a relevant factor to building a contender around Tatum when he's back though? Tatum will be out all of next year most likely and even if he does come back how realistic is to expect him to be ready to lead a title push next year? Porzingis isn't under contract beyond that and even from a purely competitive standpoint I'm not sure you can justify re-signing him into his 30s based on the availability issues he's already showed. And on Holiday, if we assume Tatum will be really back for the 26-27 season, that's Jrue's age 36 season and then he'll be under contract for his age 37 season. How much of an asset do we really expect him to be in those years?

If we keep everyone and pay tax next year then the rest of Tatum's window will be spent with us paying repeater tax which means likely less flexibility from ownership since you're paying 4 times the tax and that's at the cost of keeping players I'm really not sure are going to actually help Tatum once he's back. I genuinely question whether Porzingis (age 31 at that point) and Holiday (age 36 at that point) will be assets for a Tatum led 26-27 team and beyond.

I’m not advocating keeping everyone, I’m just advocating not using all the assets and ending up with only Patrick Williams and expirings. You have to at least end up with a few good players out of the moves. You could argue Williams could be usable, but it’s not a strong argument and still not good value on his $.

I think with KP you offer him the choice of extending at roughly MLE money or slightly above. He seems to love it here, and his value is shot by unavailability. If he takes that, he’s definitely worth keeping around (assuming you are willing to pay some tax). If not, he’s gone.

Jrue is just harder. Definitely feel like he’d be an asset the rest of his deal. Just not a value. Which is a luxury that’s hard to afford give JT and JB deals. Brad loves him, though, so I don’t think it’s completely out of the question he stays, Very unlikely, though.

I definitely wouldn't give up assets to dump the money just for the sake of avoiding the tax. I guess unless ownership demands it, then you have to.

With guys like Patrick Williams, Klay Thompson, whatever else you end up taking back in these proposals, the idea wouldn't be that you make that your core. I think you do with them like Brad did with other guys before to build the next core - you use them as salary filler and attach picks for upgrades.

My guess is that if Tatum site the year, Brown spends a chunk resting, and they move Jrue/KP/Hauser for a pupu platter of salary that keeps them below the tax... our '26 pick resulting from that season plus whatever salary pupu platter we have from the Jrue/KP/Hauser trades to attach it to nets us a player better than Jrue across the 26-27, 27-28 and 28-29 seasons. Plus the tax reset means ownership's budget can go further in future years too.

I very, very strongly believe that if you want to define a "window" for Tatum it should be the 27-28 and 28-29 seasons. That gives him a year to miss and a year to be rusty. I think dumping salary this offseason puts you in BETTER position to build around him those years.

I think writing off the 27 playoffs is a bad idea. If we do the Williams/ Klay / etc type moves without giving up picks and getting some 2nds back, fine. But, I think that’s bare minimum. And I would flip them for help in summer 26, not wait another year. I’d rather do a (one of) Gafford / PJ / WCJ / etc type return that saves a little less money but doesn’t completely give up all the talent.

[darrendaye]

Curious how high a 1st round pick C's could get for Hauser in trade prior to the draft. See a good number of trade ideas all using Hauser's 10mm 25/26 cap number. Unless I'm mistaken, a trade executed prior to league year changing puts his slot at his 2mm 24/25 number and more trade doors open.

[GoCeltics123]

Curious how high a 1st round pick C's could get for Hauser in trade prior to the draft. See a good number of trade ideas all using Hauser's 10mm 25/26 cap number. Unless I'm mistaken, a trade executed prior to league year changing puts his slot at his 2mm 24/25 number and more trade doors open.

I really doubt we get any first for Hauser honestly. He'll definitely net you 2-3 seconds though

[redslastlaugh]

I'm really high on Sam. Non-celtics fans on the trade idea board think I'm, or Celtics fans generally, overrating Sam. But he rates really highly in two areas: as a consistent +40% 3pt shooter and as a player consistently winning +/- when he's on the court.

Tatum + Sam Hauser last playoffs was the #1 net rating twosome of any two man groupings that played 200 minutes of all playoff teams and two man combos. And even this year's playoffs, where everything went wrong and Sam himself got hurt, Sam+JT was a net +40 which is very very good.

I suggested Sam + 28 and thought that could get you late lottery or mid teens (13-18) in this draft and most thought I was being too much of a green teamer. But I still think that's about right, could even be better... I value Hauser highly

Curious how high a 1st round pick C's could get for Hauser in trade prior to the draft. See a good number of trade ideas all using Hauser's 10mm 25/26 cap number. Unless I'm mistaken, a trade executed prior to league year changing puts his slot at his 2mm 24/25 number and more trade doors open.

[165bows]

I'm really high on Sam. Non-celtics fans on the trade idea board think I'm, or Celtics fans generally, overrating Sam. But he rates really highly in two areas: as a consistent +40% 3pt shooter and as a player consistently winning +/- when he's on the court.

Tatum + Sam Hauser last playoffs was the #1 net rating twosome of any two man groupings that played 200 minutes of all playoff teams and two man combos. And even this year's playoffs, where everything went wrong and Sam himself got hurt, Sam+JT was a net +40 which is very very good.

I suggested Sam + 28 and thought that could get you late lottery or mid teens (13-18) in this draft and most thought I was being too much of a green teamer. But I still think that's about right, could even be better... I value Hauser highly

Curious how high a 1st round pick C's could get for Hauser in trade prior to the draft. See a good number of trade ideas all using Hauser's 10mm 25/26 cap number. Unless I'm mistaken, a trade executed prior to league year changing puts his slot at his 2mm 24/25 number and more trade doors open.

Yeah people underrating what they'll get for Hauser imo. Teams have traded firsts for Huerter, Melton, Christian Wood etc etc.

[playa-hater]

I'm really high on Sam. Non-celtics fans on the trade idea board think I'm, or Celtics fans generally, overrating Sam. But he rates really highly in two areas: as a consistent +40% 3pt shooter and as a player consistently winning +/- when he's on the court.

Tatum + Sam Hauser last playoffs was the #1 net rating twosome of any two man groupings that played 200 minutes of all playoff teams and two man combos. And even this year's playoffs, where everything went wrong and Sam himself got hurt, Sam+JT was a net +40 which is very very good.

I suggested Sam + 28 and thought that could get you late lottery or mid teens (13-18) in this draft and most thought I was being too much of a green teamer. But I still think that's about right, could even be better... I value Hauser highly

Curious how high a 1st round pick C's could get for Hauser in trade prior to the draft. See a good number of trade ideas all using Hauser's 10mm 25/26 cap number. Unless I'm mistaken, a trade executed prior to league year changing puts his slot at his 2mm 24/25 number and more trade doors open.

I don't think Sam alone nets us a 1st rd pick but Sam plus 28 should be able to target a player and move up. It really may depend on Brad really falling in Love with a Prospect.

[Fierce1]

I believe Tatum is definitely coming back in March.

So Brad needs to upgrade and shed salary at the same time.

Cam Johnson and Gafford for Jrue and KP will make the Cs like the Bulls of the late 90s.

The Jays will be Jordan and Pippen.

Cam Johnson will be Kukoc.

Gafford, Luke, and Queta will be Longley, Wennington, and Kleine.

White will be Ron Harper.

PP will be Steve Kerr.

But we're missing a Dennis Rodman.

[redslastlaugh]

spurstalk poster had a 4-teamer Suns/Spurs/Celts/Nets with Spurs getting KD... seemed maybe too light for the Suns but was interesting because I haven't seen this basic construction for C's salary shed:

Spurs Get:
KD

Suns Get:
Jrue Holiday
Sam Houser
JD Davidson
FRP#14

Celtics Get:
Devin Vassell

Brooklyn Gets:
Keldon Johnson
SRP#38

Spurs do it because KD. Suns do it because Holiday + Hauser can keep them somewhat compe ive while they don't own their future - plus - they get a lotto pick. Celtics do it because they're shedding about 17MM off their horrendous bill while getting a serviceable player. Brooklyn does it because they get a serviceable player plus somewhat decent SRP for free.

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=303137&page=166&p=11248696&viewfull=1#post11248696

[tfmiii]

If the goal is to cut salary then you don't trade KP - his contract is expiring. If he's traded any salary coming back that's not expiring is going the wrong way.

[165bows]

spurstalk poster had a 4-teamer Suns/Spurs/Celts/Nets with Spurs getting KD... seemed maybe too light for the Suns but was interesting because I haven't seen this basic construction for C's salary shed:

Spurs Get:
KD

Suns Get:
Jrue Holiday
Sam Houser
JD Davidson
FRP#14

Celtics Get:
Devin Vassell

Brooklyn Gets:
Keldon Johnson
SRP#38

Spurs do it because KD. Suns do it because Holiday + Hauser can keep them somewhat compe ive while they don't own their future - plus - they get a lotto pick. Celtics do it because they're shedding about 17MM off their horrendous bill while getting a serviceable player. Brooklyn does it because they get a serviceable player plus somewhat decent SRP for free.

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=303137&page=166&p=11248696&viewfull=1#post11248696

I’m totally not a Vassell guy but the Spurs are one of Brad’s teams to trade with so wouldn’t surprise if they were in the mix in some form. Plus I think Pop is washed up so I’ll take the Brad/Pop front office matchup at this point.

[playa-hater]

+20 With NeSmith in −13 when he is out..

[playa-hater]

Nesmith with a huge huge charge take.. Yeah, I see absolutely no reason. Coach Ime should have played him when he had the chance

[playa-hater]

I hate to say, but the referee's made a proper call k. A t was pushed.

[exculpatory]

This thread is making me dizzy.

[cl2117]

I’m not advocating keeping everyone, I’m just advocating not using all the assets and ending up with only Patrick Williams and expirings. You have to at least end up with a few good players out of the moves. You could argue Williams could be usable, but it’s not a strong argument and still not good value on his $.

I think with KP you offer him the choice of extending at roughly MLE money or slightly above. He seems to love it here, and his value is shot by unavailability. If he takes that, he’s definitely worth keeping around (assuming you are willing to pay some tax). If not, he’s gone.

Jrue is just harder. Definitely feel like he’d be an asset the rest of his deal. Just not a value. Which is a luxury that’s hard to afford give JT and JB deals. Brad loves him, though, so I don’t think it’s completely out of the question he stays, Very unlikely, though.

I definitely wouldn't give up assets to dump the money just for the sake of avoiding the tax. I guess unless ownership demands it, then you have to.

With guys like Patrick Williams, Klay Thompson, whatever else you end up taking back in these proposals, the idea wouldn't be that you make that your core. I think you do with them like Brad did with other guys before to build the next core - you use them as salary filler and attach picks for upgrades.

My guess is that if Tatum site the year, Brown spends a chunk resting, and they move Jrue/KP/Hauser for a pupu platter of salary that keeps them below the tax... our '26 pick resulting from that season plus whatever salary pupu platter we have from the Jrue/KP/Hauser trades to attach it to nets us a player better than Jrue across the 26-27, 27-28 and 28-29 seasons. Plus the tax reset means ownership's budget can go further in future years too.

I very, very strongly believe that if you want to define a "window" for Tatum it should be the 27-28 and 28-29 seasons. That gives him a year to miss and a year to be rusty. I think dumping salary this offseason puts you in BETTER position to build around him those years.

I think writing off the 27 playoffs is a bad idea. If we do the Williams/ Klay / etc type moves without giving up picks and getting some 2nds back, fine. But, I think that’s bare minimum. And I would flip them for help in summer 26, not wait another year. I’d rather do a (one of) Gafford / PJ / WCJ / etc type return that saves a little less money but doesn’t completely give up all the talent.

Yeah my logic runs similar to hugepatsfan in that these initial deals are a means to and end and phase 1 of a multi-phase shake-up over the next 2-3 years. But I agree that writing off the '27 playoffs is too much. I want Tatum returning to a playoff team that at the very least has a puncher's chance at winning it all. Realistically we should be 100% back in the "window" for the '27/28 season but I'm not writing off anything beyond next year at this stage.

In the idea I threw out you'd be creating a Jrue Holiday sized TPE plus have contracts you could aggregate again now that you're below the 2nd apron. So give Tatum a year off, soft-tank to a lottery pick and then come back ready to add 2-3 pieces around our current core minus KP/Jrue. We could find ourselves peeling off that summer's version of Gafford/Klay type guys for free into the TPEs as other teams look to pivot or we could be stacking contracts and picks trying to land a new Jrue/KP level talent to go with Tatum/ Brown/ White/ PP/ Hauser (likely with a longer shelf life too).

I guess where I differ from hugepatsfan is that I'm willing to give up an asset or two to dump money to avoid the tax. The long-term financial and roster construction benefits are too great to ignore. I don't think it's an absolute must to get below the line, but if we can reset our cap sheet completely and it only costs KP/Jrue and #28, I'm signing up to that. Sure there's a world where we manage to get that all done without giving up any assets and possibly even getting minor ones back, but in general I try to imagine deals where the C's get squeezed to avoid being biased.

Assuming next year is a bit of a lost year, I'm quietly confident that Brad can wheel and deal his way to putting together a '26/27 roster that would be close to on par with this same team if we didn't have cap woes and kept the team together. Gotta help him by taking the handcuffs off (both apron and repeater tax induced) and to do that we definitely need to take a step back talent wise and probably have to pay a small price.