Is our bench better than we’ve been led to believe?

[Jalen Bluntson]

That all grit no quit attitude I loved from last year was because it was next man up all the way to the last game of playoffs. As usual, injuries forced his hand there and to end this season when Brunson was hurt.

It took 15 game very difficult miracle comeback wins to find that he could rely on his bench.... Because foul trouble forced his hand.

This is not a good thing for him!

[Capn'O]

Yes we were lied to.

It's about player combinations that are effective and complement each other.

If it's all out hockey subs, then of course the bench looks terrible...individually they're not talented as playmakers.

But If you have some bench players mixed in with our more prolific scorers...then the bench player's strengths like unselfishness/ball-movement, hustle/defense, spot up shooting, become catalytic and their individual playmaking/scoring deficiencies are not so pronounced.

Wright's actually a decent playmaker. He's just not good at all at scoring

His game is like what some video game would come up with for a generic point guard.

[8516knicks]

Pacer's bench shot 20% from three yesterday. Have to believe the bench had a lot to do with that. At least, I'd think so.

[ctorres]

Yes we were lied to.

It's about player combinations that are effective and complement each other.

If it's all out hockey subs, then of course the bench looks terrible...individually they're not talented as playmakers.

But If you have some bench players mixed in with our more prolific scorers...then the bench player's strengths like unselfishness/ball-movement, hustle/defense, spot up shooting, become catalytic and their individual playmaking/scoring deficiencies are not so pronounced.

Wright's actually a decent playmaker. He's just not good at all at scoring

His game is like what some video game would come up with for a generic point guard.

His 3pt shooting jumps to 43.4% in the playoffs. So he hits threes when the games actually matter. Toronto, Dallas, Atlanta, Miami, he hit a high clip in all 4 stops.

I don't get it though. Thibs used to be enamored with guys like Elfrid Payton, Reggie Bullock, Alec Burks, Taj Gibson, Nerlens Noel

You'd think he'd vibe with Shamet and Wright the same way.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Pacer's bench shot 20% from three yesterday. Have to believe the bench had a lot to do with that. At least, I'd think so.

Their bench isn't even that good, it's basically TJ and Obi, if you can stop TJ's mid range jumpers and Obi's transition buckets they're just playing more bodies.

[Jalen Bluntson]

The fact that Josh suggested he go to the bench says it all. Thibs didn't even make that move on his own.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Pacer's bench shot 20% from three yesterday. Have to believe the bench had a lot to do with that. At least, I'd think so.

Their bench isn't even that good, it's basically TJ and Obi, if you can stop TJ's mid range jumpers and Obi's transition buckets they're just playing more bodies.

What bench really is that good? We are 7 deep before a drop off. Shamet/Wright/Precious/Payne are on par with everything a lot of teams have from 8-11. Never playing them is dumb. Period. Basically every time he is forced to it works. Go figure. Yet he always goes away from it as soon as possible. Every player on our bench has helped contribute to some wins at some point. Never to be seen again.

[Clyde_Style]

Pacer's bench shot 20% from three yesterday. Have to believe the bench had a lot to do with that. At least, I'd think so.

Their bench isn't even that good, it's basically TJ and Obi, if you can stop TJ's mid range jumpers and Obi's transition buckets they're just playing more bodies.

What bench really is that good? We are 7 deep before a drop off. Shamet/Wright/Precious/Payne are on par with everything a lot of teams have from 8-11. Never playing them is dumb. Period. Basically every time he is forced to it works. Go figure. Yet he always goes away from it as soon as possible. Every player on our bench has helped contribute to some wins at some point. Never to be seen again.

And our rookies may have been a part of that depth, but they were shut out. Other franchises figure out which rookies can fit into their rotation and play them. Even if it was just one it could be extra depth ready to play.

[Clyde_Style]

Have we been brainwashed into believing the bench is ass because Thibs never plays them? Or does Thibs never play them because they’re ass??

In game 3: Delon and Shamet looked good. We’ve already seen McBride provides much needed offense. And we’ve seen precious can be helpful in spurts (no idea why he never gets minutes).

So what say you? Is the bench equivalent to Lizzo’s bath water? Or has Thibs grossly mismanaged the bench all season? Or both?

[ctorres]

Pacer's bench shot 20% from three yesterday. Have to believe the bench had a lot to do with that. At least, I'd think so.

Their bench isn't even that good, it's basically TJ and Obi, if you can stop TJ's mid range jumpers and Obi's transition buckets they're just playing more bodies.

What bench really is that good? We are 7 deep before a drop off. Shamet/Wright/Precious/Payne are on par with everything a lot of teams have from 8-11. Never playing them is dumb. Period. Basically every time he is forced to it works. Go figure. Yet he always goes away from it as soon as possible. Every player on our bench has helped contribute to some wins at some point. Never to be seen again.

I think Thibs banked on Mikal and OG being super elite 2-way players who could sustain on both ends of the floor for 40+ mpg. So rather than bothering with giving guys like Shamet and Wright 5 minutes in a game, he rather just force Mikal, OG, and Josh to play through everything because it's what they're paid for.

Thibs noticeably monitored minutes for Jalen and KAT this season. For our wings, he elected to have all 3 of them to be top 5 in minutes per game this season, so he didn't monitor their minutes beyond making sure they were close enough to superstars like Booker (37.3) and Jokic (36.7).

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2025_per_game.html

Only 12 players played 35.9 to 37.6 mpg this season.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Their bench isn't even that good, it's basically TJ and Obi, if you can stop TJ's mid range jumpers and Obi's transition buckets they're just playing more bodies.

What bench really is that good? We are 7 deep before a drop off. Shamet/Wright/Precious/Payne are on par with everything a lot of teams have from 8-11. Never playing them is dumb. Period. Basically every time he is forced to it works. Go figure. Yet he always goes away from it as soon as possible. Every player on our bench has helped contribute to some wins at some point. Never to be seen again.

And our rookies may have been a part of that depth, but they were shut out. Other franchises figure out which rookies can fit into their rotation and play them. Even if it was just one it could be extra depth ready to play.

Shut out isn't the word. They all flashed but, never got any trust. Huk was close though. Injury shut that down.

He still sucks with the bench. There's literally nothing but endless examples of it. Everyone talks/jokes/knows about it.

It's pretty much clear as day. He hates being asked about it. It's supposed to be excused by having terrible players every year? I know some years that may be an argument but, we all know it's BS.

[Woodsanity]

Bench if mediocre but Thibs is using it like its complete trash.

[Clyde_Style]

What bench really is that good? We are 7 deep before a drop off. Shamet/Wright/Precious/Payne are on par with everything a lot of teams have from 8-11. Never playing them is dumb. Period. Basically every time he is forced to it works. Go figure. Yet he always goes away from it as soon as possible. Every player on our bench has helped contribute to some wins at some point. Never to be seen again.

And our rookies may have been a part of that depth, but they were shut out. Other franchises figure out which rookies can fit into their rotation and play them. Even if it was just one it could be extra depth ready to play.

Shut out isn't the word. They all flashed but, never got any trust. Huk was close though. Injury shut that down.

He still sucks with the bench. There's literally nothing but endless examples of it. Everyone talks/jokes/knows about it.

It's pretty much clear as day. He hates being asked about it. It's supposed to be excused by having terrible players every year? I know some years that may be an argument but, we all know it's BS.

One of the primary ways to weed out disingenuous people on this board is to discount those who justify Thibs lack of bench utilization on having a bad bench roster. It is the laziest argument possible. I cannot take those people seriously once they start pushing that reasoning.

[8516knicks]

Their bench isn't even that good, it's basically TJ and Obi, if you can stop TJ's mid range jumpers and Obi's transition buckets they're just playing more bodies.

What bench really is that good? We are 7 deep before a drop off. Shamet/Wright/Precious/Payne are on par with everything a lot of teams have from 8-11. Never playing them is dumb. Period. Basically every time he is forced to it works. Go figure. Yet he always goes away from it as soon as possible. Every player on our bench has helped contribute to some wins at some point. Never to be seen again.

I think Thibs banked on Mikal and OG being super elite 2-way players who could sustain on both ends of the floor for 40+ mpg. So rather than bothering with giving guys like Shamet and Wright 5 minutes in a game, he rather just force Mikal, OG, and Josh to play through everything because it's what they're paid for.

Thibs noticeably monitored minutes for Jalen and KAT this season. For our wings, he elected to have all 3 of them to be top 5 in minutes per game this season, so he didn't monitor their minutes beyond making sure they were close enough to superstars like Booker (37.3) and Jokic (36.7).

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2025_per_game.html

Only 12 players played 35.9 to 37.6 mpg this season.

Hart #1
Mikal #3
OG #5
JB #14
KAT#20

No other team had more than 2; our ENTIRE starting team in the top 20.

[spree2kawhi]

Bench is good if hart comes off the bench.

[8516knicks]

Check the 3pt shooters. KAT is the only Knick over .400. JB is .383 (#68). We could have had Ty Jerome, couldn't we? Or is he not CAA?


WE NEED A SHOOTER. (Janey's not the only one who needs a shooter!)

Watch on YouTube

;pp=ygUhamFuZXkgbmVlZHMgYSBzaG9vdGVyIHNwcmluZ3N0ZWVu

[8516knicks]

While I'm at it Josh Hart finished #13 in rebounding in the entire league. The only other non-centers/power forwards in the top 20 were Amen Thompson #19 Josh Giddey#20. The next SG is Desmond Bane at #47.

[nykballa2k4]

Have we been brainwashed into believing the bench is ass because Thibs never plays them? Or does Thibs never play them because they’re ass??

In game 3: Delon and Shamet looked good. We’ve already seen McBride provides much needed offense. And we’ve seen precious can be helpful in spurts (no idea why he never gets minutes).

So what say you? Is the bench equivalent to Lizzo’s bath water? Or has Thibs grossly mismanaged the bench all season? Or both?

At this very moment we have a team that other HC's would probably say has a good bench.
Shamet, Payne have both been rotation guys and are not past their prime. Deuce is a solid two-way player. Hart/Mitch which ever you want to say is a bench player clearly is relied on for starter-type production.

Precious is underused and similar guys get rotation minutes elsewhere. We don't have a true backup wing, but that in part is due to GM's choice. They could have signed Warren or that kid the Sixers got (blanking on the name) both were FA and both are capable NBA players. Huk is useful when called on. I think if we would have given him some time in an earlier blow out Kolek would be useful. Probably not fire-ready, but if he can see 3-4 minutes of action to get his feet wet he would be useful after that.

Wright seems to be gaining Thibs trust which is a nice surprise.

[Kampuchea]

Option 4. Bench is mid and coaching isn’t holding it back.

[Kampuchea]

We need to improve on Payne mostly.