The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2

[bwgood77]

Wolves will be the most aggressive team going after Durant after Thunder sweeps them or win 4-1.

But they don't have anyone and Randle ain't it.

TBH. I would take

Randle, Naz Reid and 1st for KD

This would be a solid package for sure! Only problem is that Naz Reid will likely opt out of his player option to seek upwards of 25-30 million annually (will probably settle around 24 per annum though) and will prefer to test free agency over a sign n trade.

Randle would be a solid expiring for us, but could also provide a strong blend of physicality and post dominance that we lack if we brought him back on a reasonable somewhat cheaper deal though? (Ishbia could add easy benchmark incentives to help him pull more money and circumvent the cap a bit)??

And Randle could provide solid secondary playmaking too. But for my part, I'd only settle on a package of:
KD/ 29th pick ( CLE) for Randle (opts in) / Di Vincenzo/ Dillingham/ Minott/ 17th pick (DET)/ 31st pick (MIN)/ MIN 31' 1st.
** Then I'd trade Dillingham/ O'neale/ Richards to Washington for Smart/ 40th pick (PHX)/ PHX 26' 2nd. And Allen/ CLE 29 1st for Isaac/ 46th pick.

17- Maxime Raynaud.
31- Cedric Coward or Adou Thiero.
40- Sion James.
46- Rocco Zisarky or Vlad Goldin.
52- Milos Uzan.
** Sign Adams in free agency.

Smart/ Booker/ Isaac/ Randle/ Lopez.
Beal / Di Vincenzo/ Dunn/ Ighodaro/ Raynaud.
Gillespie/ James/ Thiero/ Moni/ Zisarky.

G League
1- Milos Uzan.
2- Josh Minott.

I mentioned Randle, Reid and a first for KD too weeks ago, thinking that would be one of the more likely potential deals, except that KD may not want to play there (though he should). I was thinking of Randle as more for just filler and didn't really like him, but he's gotten better and better over the years since I used to really not like him.

But ultimately, we need to go young. Not sure if we ever will go young again with Ishbia as owner or just try to sign vets and compete for a play in, so not sure how vested I will be. But it would be nice at some point if he did rebuild and we could get some good picks. Preferably our 27 and 29 picks for Book sometime in the next year and a half.

[lilfishi22]

I’m right there with you. I think we got exactly what I expected from KD. If anyone expected him to carry this team single-handedly—like Jokic or a prime LeBron might, dragging them into the playoffs through sheer force of will—they don’t really understand who KD is. He’s never really been the engine of the team kinda guy. Even back in OKC, there was always the debate about who was the bus driver—him or Westbrook. While both guys are raising the floor and ceiling together, you could argue the team is maximised with Westbrook raising the floor, while KD is the one raising the ceiling.

At this stage in his career, KD just can’t be the guy who lifts the floor anymore. Sure, take him off a team and the floor drops, but if you’re expecting 36-year-old KD to play 36-40 minutes every night just to keep the baseline steady, that's an incredible poor utilisation of him.

I look at KD and Book (to an extent, same with Beal) as similar type of players; lethal weapons that can win games for you in the right situations. They are the ceiling raisers. What's missing is a true floor raiser which Chris Paul was. Once CP3 left, this team just struggled to close out winnable games, especially in the regular season. The Vogel Suns collapsing in the fourth quarter, after looking competitive or even dominant for the first three quarters, is the clearest example of that. We spend almost all our talent capital in the first 3 quarters only for it to run out in the 4th. I'm not even going to talk about this past season because I can't even be bothered to do a post-mortem on it to figure out exactly what was wrong with this iteration of the Suns.

So, to me, there’s a clear distinction between the expectations for the team after trading for KD and the expectations for KD himself. KD either met or exceeded my expectations as a player, depending on what aspect you look at. But the team, post-KD trade, seriously underperformed especially when you consider the future we had to mortgage to put this disappointing team together. While KD shares some blame, the bigger problems with the team ran much deeper than his individual performance—which, honestly, was pretty great.

KD and Booker are excellent scorers. I would say that Booker took a lot interest in the defensive end two seasons ago and KD has played some excellent defense this season, although he was not playing his natural spot at SF.
However, I would say they miss all those important aspects that do not show on the stats and that take teams to success.
I believe everybody understands what I mean.
They come to the office to collect their salaries after scoring their 25/28 points expecting nothing else. Do they care about winning, team chemistry, doing the little things that do not show on the stat sheet?
Do they think that they do enough by scoring so many points and that others should take care of the small details?
They could have their share of reason, no doubt.
There were so many thing to be solved by BDH and that were left unanswered...

I can see why the team needed Butler - they needed somebody to do the dirty work that Book and KD won't do and that is being a leader of team. And maybe not everybody is meant to be a leader alpha type. But the Suns having two very good players - one arguably still top 10 and one of the best players of the last 15 years -- doesn't mean they will get the wins.

Just to confirm, a Jimmy trade would've definitely have been for KD because Miami just wouldn't budge on Beal no matter what we tried to do to sweeten the offer. So it would've been essentially Book, Beal and Jimmy.

What the Warriors lacked was that extra bit of talent they got in Butler who helped them steady the ship. Warriors already had a system (Kerr), they already had the guys who can run the system (Dray/Steph) and they just needed a guy who is an extension of that system. We needed far more than that. I don't think the leadership from Butler would be enough. I don't even know what was our offensive philosophy. Bringing in Jimmy just wasn't going to solve for that. Jimmy could bark at Book and Beal all he wants, it's not going to get us to play the right way because I just don't think Bud's system worked with this roster.

[lilfishi22]

:evil: Instead of hiring from one of the recent well established organizations like the Thunder, Heat or Wolves, Ishbia has some guy that’s part of some of the worst teams (Pistons, Hornets, Magic, Blazers and Nets) as the front runner.

Out of the reported candidates, either Micah Nori, Dave Bliss or Chris Quinn should be the pick.

But of course Ishbia will instead hire from one of the dumpster franchises so he can continue to have as much control as possible. Why doesn’t this idiot just coach the team himself then? He’s already GMing himself.

Hetzel is a native of Allen Park, Michigan. Hetzel graduated from Michigan State University in 2005.

Of course now I see why Ishbia has him in the lead. My fcking god man, why can’t the Pistons go for sale and Ishbia can sell the Suns and buy them instead.

Well I've already lost interest in him as a candidate

[lilfishi22]

Nobody is questioning the talent of Durant. But the bigger thing is - does he lead teams. Bickley noted this months ago about both KD and Booker - the Olympics are the perfect team for them to play on. They can just hoop and let others "be the leader". Booker worked great with CP3 as he was the leader. Durant with the Warriors - between Curry and Dray, they were the alpha personalities on the team

My point is that I am not sure a team with both Booker and Durant without that alpha presence (CP3, maybe a Sam Cassell, a Jimmy Butler) will succeed in winning games. Not putting up stats - winning titles.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. But I do not understand why you believe Durant (particularly) and Booker are not equally alpha to CP3 and Butler, and particularly Cassell. The overall team is what wins championships. CP3 like Butler never won a championship. Cassell won three, but I question his necessity with Hakeem and Drexler, and he was 38 when he won because of Pierce, Garnett, and Ray Allen. But if you are still not sure after comparing the three to KD, I will not attempt to argue further.

I think its more than Booker and Durant are not compatible teammates. Games are very similar. Add in Beal - its a mess

Now its not KD and Bookers fault about their teammates. But having two players that good - -team should win more than 36 games. And to be better, it will take more than moving on from Beal, and making 'around the edges' trades.

My view is that we needed a guy like a CP3 who really knows how to set up Book over here and KD over there. We needed a coach/manager on the floor who can maximise those 2/3 guys with as little overlap as possible. Making Book almost full time PG was also a mistake given it detracts from his own game as an elite scorer. Again, I think maybe Jimmy might will us into a play-in spot and maybe even get to the playoffs but we're a first round exit at best. He might make us player harder, care more but structurally, this team was beyond just not playing hard enough or caring enough.

[BobbieL]

Gambo's final three new head coaches with a possible 4th added

1. Johnnie Bryant
2. David Ott
3. Chris Quinn

Make your pick

We probably should set up a place for posters to make their choice.

Quinn
Bryant
Ott

[Calvin Klein]

I'd rather just have Ishbia and Isiah go full crazy and run things by themselves Burns/Smithers style. It would at least be entertaining.

Watch on YouTube

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

[King4Day]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

I didn't watch this one simply because it makes no sense to propose these ideas when there's 0 chance we're trading him.
The Rockets one is what I'd take in order to get our picks back.

[lilfishi22]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

For this exercise

1. Rockets
2. Nets/Magic
3. Knicks/Hawks








4. Boston

[mkot]

I’m right there with you. I think we got exactly what I expected from KD. If anyone expected him to carry this team single-handedly—like Jokic or a prime LeBron might, dragging them into the playoffs through sheer force of will—they don’t really understand who KD is. He’s never really been the engine of the team kinda guy. Even back in OKC, there was always the debate about who was the bus driver—him or Westbrook. While both guys are raising the floor and ceiling together, you could argue the team is maximised with Westbrook raising the floor, while KD is the one raising the ceiling.

KD is a tough shotmaker and that should be a team's ceiling raiser, not floor. We have 3 on the team

When Curry isn't making his shot, he is running around relocating constantly to create space for others. When Jokić is getting beat up he is setting screen and rebounding. When Prime LeBron shot isn't falling he is still controlling the game by making plays on both ends. Giannis is a very flawed offensive player but he has a great motor so you are not going to outwork him. None of our main guys has that quality or understanding that rising your floor game to be more resistant in a tight and intense playoff environment so you can meet the moments and find ways to win when things are hard.

[lilfishi22]

Read on Twitter

Ott appears to be the only guy with Michigan State connections but doesn't appear to be more related to actual studying there. At least he's got a decent NBA coaching CV having coached under Kenny Atkinson which is more than you could say about Gregory's CV. Interestingly both Ott and Bryant are both head coaches for the Cavs. I hope there isn't some some Ish subplot of trying to poach coaching staff from Gilbert.

Quin is still my guy. He deserves a shot

[lilfishi22]

I’m right there with you. I think we got exactly what I expected from KD. If anyone expected him to carry this team single-handedly—like Jokic or a prime LeBron might, dragging them into the playoffs through sheer force of will—they don’t really understand who KD is. He’s never really been the engine of the team kinda guy. Even back in OKC, there was always the debate about who was the bus driver—him or Westbrook. While both guys are raising the floor and ceiling together, you could argue the team is maximised with Westbrook raising the floor, while KD is the one raising the ceiling.

KD is a tough shotmaker and that should be a team's ceiling raiser, not floor. We have 3 on the team

When Curry isn't making his shot, he is running around relocating constantly to create space for others. When Jokić is getting beat up he is setting screen and rebounding. When Prime LeBron shot isn't falling he is still controlling the game by making plays on both ends. Giannis is a very flawed offensive player but he has a great motor so you are not going to outwork him. None of our main guys has that quality or understanding that rising your floor game to be more resistant in a tight and intense playoff environment so you can meet the moments and find ways to win when things are hard.

We got 3 guys whose by far best skill is putting points on the board. As you mentioned, the other stars bring a lot other other things to the table that keeps their teams steady or the system running even if they aren't directly involved in putting points on the board and it's still very much integral to their game. KD, Book and Beal can play point guard, set up others and can lock in defensively etc but their primary focus is scoring because it's what they do best and it's what comes natural to them. If you ask them to do one of those other things, they can do it but it isn't a core part of their game and it's going to take away from what they do best and add the most value on the court.

That's why I've always looked at KD and Book as weapons rather than a system. You put them in a system that works, and they'll help you put a lot of W's on the standings just like KD did in GSW and Book did under CP3/Monty. But if you make them the system, that's not how they run. This is why we need 1. a system and 2. a system guy who can run the system.

[Saberestar]

Gambo's final three new head coaches with a possible 4th added

1. Johnnie Bryant
2. David Ott
3. Chris Quinn

Make your pick

We probably should set up a place for posters to make their choice.

Quinn
Bryant
Ott

Finally adding Sweeney to these three, I would say:

Quinn
Sweeney
Ott
Bryant

[Frank Lee]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

I didn't watch this one simply because it makes no sense to propose these ideas when there's 0 chance we're trading him.
The Rockets one is what I'd take in order to get our picks back.

Why watch that when you can read this

[bullsaficianado]

Read on Twitter

Durant will likely force a trade to Spurs and that's how this saga ends. He will have a legit shot at a ring next season if he did. They can get him and keep Castle and #2 (Harper) and have Fox and Wemby. If he forces his way there this summer it will happen. The Suns will mostly want like 3 1st rounders for him and they can offer it.

[Saberestar]

Michael Scotto

The Phoenix Suns have at least five candidates advancing to the next round of interviews for their head coaching job, including Jordan Ott and Johnnie Bryant (Cavaliers), Sean Sweeney (Mavericks), Chris Quinn (Heat), and Dave Bliss (Thunder), league sources told @hoopshype.

Gambo

Sean Sweeney makes it four interviews scheduled for the final round. Hearing they could have added one more to make it 5 total for final round.

[Mr Puddles]

Read on Twitter

Durant will likely force a trade to Spurs and that's how this saga ends. He will have a legit shot at a ring next season if he did. They can get him and keep Castle and #2 (Harper) and have Fox and Wemby. If he forces his way there this summer it will happen. The Suns will mostly want like 3 1st rounders for him and they can offer it.

14 + two future firsts + guys like Barnes, Vassel or Johnson as salary fillers would be a good haul.