2025 EASTERN CONFERENCE FINALS: #3 New York Knicks vs #4 Indiana Pacers (IND leads 3-1)

[Marrs-Law]

If he can’t stop Brunson he definitely cant stop SGA. This is a terrible matchup all around for the pacers. From top to bottom. Chet defensively alone on Siakam is game changer because their is no advantage switch for the the pacers from any position

We'll see. It's possible I underrate Chet, but he's skinny like Wemby...Wemby recovers with length, but Chet's wingspan is 6 inches shorter. Throw in a little post-game and fadeways, and I'm hopeful an elite championship-winning number-two has a mismatch. I like that.

Neismith pretty stopped him this game, and that's a fact. SGA also has bad games. The Pacers can live with stars going off as long as we stop other players. If Nesmith can "stop" him one game, SGA is bad for another game or two, and we can generally slow him down over the series and live with not doubling, that's a win for our defense and puts us in position if we can execute on the offensive end.

He made Brunson work hard as he has been doing all series but you can’t say you’re stopping him when he’s still doing what he’s doing.

I don’t see how anyone can watch this series and think the pacers stand a chance vs OKC.. SGA is brunson X2 with more size, okc will run with you, okc defense is better all around, okc has more shooters, deeper bench. Unless Hailburton is having the same game tonight vs Okc every game I just don’t see it

Neismith pretty stopped him this game. I don't know how to find matchup data, but Brunson was in hell all game when guarded by Neismith. Previous games, as you said, Brunson scored a lot better from two. We're up 3-1 and really have been unable to stop stars all playoffs. SGA will probably go off (though hopefully he'll be tired if we get to game seven), but the Pacers will win or lose on other things.

SGA is SGA but it's Williams and other players, who've been streaky, that are worrying and the main issue. They will run and have good depth, so they have a good chance at negating one of our biggest threats, but we'll see. OKC's shooters have been on and off in these playoffs, and I suspect overall their role players are at worse no better than us on shooting.

My heart believes after a win, but my head agrees that OKC probably wins. We'll see if OKC slows down our offense; if game one is a OKC blowout because of bad Indiana looks or sustainable OKC shooting, then I'm sure we're losing. I do think we have a puncher's chance because of our offense.

If G4 Hali and G2 Siakim show up every game, then throw everything out the window. That may be asking too much, however; they're great players, but the difference between all-stars & superstars & MVP candidates is consistency.

[ArksNetsSince99]

Really funny thing is Knicks was looking to the finals matchup against their former players

Hartelstein on OKC

or Randle and Divo on Minny

Little that they knew , Obi Toppin send them home

[GiannisAnte34]

Is it still Knicks in 5, LFGK?

[ArksNetsSince99]

Is it still Knicks in 5, LFGK?

He was kind of right , Knicks in 5 going Cancun

[Marrs-Law]

I wouldn’t have thought before the series, but sure there were some who saw it:
The starters are supposed to be the Knicks strength, but they are outmatched.

How many Knicks would you take over Pacers when looking at the starting lineup?

Brunson/Hali - I’ll say it’s a wash

I’d take Nembhard over Hart…I think Hart’s “heart of the team” thing is overrated when it comes to real impact.

Nesmith/Bridges - I’d have said Bridges going in…now I really don’t know

Siakam > OG

I’d take Towns over Turner, but the gap isn’t massive. I think Towns makes a lot of stupid, losing plays that don’t draw near the attention that his at times brilliant plays do garner.

Plus I think the Pacers guys work better together, a lot because Hali is a more classic PG and Brunson is a score first PG.

After this series, I'm thinking Hali over Brunson, and once (or if) Hali becomes more consistent I would argue it's not that close. Hali isn't OG, but he's a much superior defender to Brunson. His size probably makes him more sustainable. More to the point, I'm not sure Helio-ball really works, and I think it puts a cap on your ceiling, and Brunson's cap is probably too low to compete with elite offenses. Hali-offense just outplayed Brunson-offense, and I think it's telling that the Knicks' offense was arguably as good when he was off the floor. I like Brunson; he's a dog and I like short players. But I think Hali is clearly better.

I'd take all Pacers' starters over Knicks starters except for the five spot. I think it's 1. Hali 2. Brunson (maybe lower but trying not to overeact) T3. Siakim/KAT. KATs really hard to rate. Siakim is great. KAT is the type of player who loses you games but could also win you the series, and I really don't know where to put that.

Not trying to hate on the Knicks at a bad time; it's just how I see it.

[California Gold]

I like this Knicks team but they're missing a big piece, like a KD.

Yeah like "If only they were a super team!" They traded to get OG, traded to get Kat, then traded to get Bridges, that's a lot of draft picks going out.

The ceiling for this roster was always ECF at best. You're not winning a title with Brunson as your #1 option.

[XTC]

This series should honestly be 2-2 right now, that game 1 choke job is going to haunt the Knicks. What a collapse, and it couldn't have happened to a more likeable team

[___Rand___]

lol what he say?

They asked him about his experience on the Pacers and he was like (paraphrasing) "I had some dark times, but I'm blessed to be in this organization now".

I mean, the Raptors did tank in Pascal's later years and all that losing can definitely feel like dark times to the players.

That's NOT what he meant by dark times. You don't know this because nobody pays attention to Raptors. but after Kawhi left Pascal was our best ISO player. Nurse went to him for late game ISO situations, because he was our best, and also to develop him further.

And admittedly, he was still developing, and was still pretty raw. From that year which ended with playoffs in covid, to 2022-23 season, there was relentless criticism of Pascal as a player, and as a human being by a large number of Raptors fan base. Some of which were quite frankly racist (like send him back to Africa, etc). It was all over social media, and it impacted his game and shooting. Pascal admitted this, and he stopped engaging in social media after that covid season. That criticism was everywhere - twitter, on reddit, and on this VERY board. It was ugly. Even Masai mentioned that in his end of year press conference. It wasn't until his 2nd all-star season Pascal criticism became less intense. I remember that vividly because I spent long hours defending Pascal on boards. Same thing happened with Ibaka too. Not all Canadians are nice.

[Capn'O]

Another thought - I had a brief glimmer of hope in the 4th when KAT pulled off a few plays in a row where he either got inside or got fouled. I have no idea why we didn't just spam that action until you stopped it. We do that all the time with KAT and it makes no sense. He's an offensive weapon. Empty the full clip and let it click a few times before trying something else.

His defense was actually pretty good tonight too.

[basketballwacko2]

Don’t think people thought he wasn’t worth trading for, they just didn’t wanna trade a ton for a potential half year rental.

Yeah he was on his contract year Pacers gave 3 #1's and Bruce Brown, Jordan Nwara. I was against it at the time because of the the 2026 #1 pick. But the trade worked out fine as Pascal Signed a long term deal. I didn't think he'd sign.

Apparently Siakam made it known he wanted to go to Indiana.

The Haliburton effect.

Could be or he just decided he liked the situation after playing with Haliburton and Turner.

[___Rand___]

I mean, the Raptors did tank in Pascal's later years and all that losing can definitely feel like dark times to the players.

I'm not mad at Pascal. He should be calling us out. We've been a dumpster fire for like 3 seasons.

I didn’t liked Indiana trading for Pascal tbh

Boy was I wrong about this one

So you were one of the five Pacers fans I was arguing with before the trade, that Indy was best fit for Pascal. lol.

[BooomBaby]

Damn, Pascal taking shots at the Raptors every interview.

lol what he say?

They asked him about his experience on the Pacers and he was like (paraphrasing) "I had some dark times, but I'm blessed to be in this organization now".

Pascal is not the type of player (nor person) to take a shot at anyone.
He's about as classy as it gets. I can see now why so many Raptors fans loved (love) him.

[basketballwacko2]

I like this Knicks team but they're missing a big piece, like a KD.

Yeah like "If only they were a super team!" They traded to get OG, traded to get Kat, then traded to get Bridges, that's a lot of draft picks going out.

The ceiling for this roster was always ECF at best. You're not winning a title with Brunson as your #1 option.

Well I'm not a Knicks fan so I'm not trying to do that.

I'm a Pacers fan dating back to the 1960's and the ABA. This team is talented and deep, very deep!!

[Nuntius]

They asked him about his experience on the Pacers and he was like (paraphrasing) "I had some dark times, but I'm blessed to be in this organization now".

I mean, the Raptors did tank in Pascal's later years and all that losing can definitely feel like dark times to the players.

That's NOT what he meant by dark times. You don't know this because nobody pays attention to Raptors. but after Kawhi left Pascal was our best ISO player. Nurse went to him for late game ISO situations, because he was our best, and also to develop him further.

And admittedly, he was still developing, and was still pretty raw. From that year which ended with playoffs in covid, to 2022-23 season, there was relentless criticism of Pascal as a player, and as a human being by a large number of Raptors fan base. Some of which were quite frankly racist (like send him back to Africa, etc). It was all over social media, and it impacted his game and shooting. Pascal admitted this, and he stopped engaging in social media after that covid season. That criticism was everywhere - twitter, on reddit, and on this VERY board. It was ugly. Even Masai mentioned that in his end of year press conference. It wasn't until his 2nd all-star season Pascal criticism became less intense. I remember that vividly because I spent long hours defending Pascal on boards. Same thing happened with Ibaka too. Not all Canadians are nice.

Ah, I see. Thanks for the context. That does indeed sound like dark times.

[Wingy]

I wouldn’t have thought before the series, but sure there were some who saw it:
The starters are supposed to be the Knicks strength, but they are outmatched.

How many Knicks would you take over Pacers when looking at the starting lineup?

Brunson/Hali - I’ll say it’s a wash

I’d take Nembhard over Hart…I think Hart’s “heart of the team” thing is overrated when it comes to real impact.

Nesmith/Bridges - I’d have said Bridges going in…now I really don’t know

Siakam > OG

I’d take Towns over Turner, but the gap isn’t massive. I think Towns makes a lot of stupid, losing plays that don’t draw near the attention that his at times brilliant plays do garner.

Plus I think the Pacers guys work better together, a lot because Hali is a more classic PG and Brunson is a score first PG.

After this series, I'm thinking Hali over Brunson, and once (or if) Hali becomes more consistent I would argue it's not that close. Hali isn't OG, but he's a much superior defender to Brunson. His size probably makes him more sustainable. More to the point, I'm not sure Helio-ball really works, and I think it puts a cap on your ceiling, and Brunson's cap is probably too low to compete with elite offenses. Hali-offense just outplayed Brunson-offense, and I think it's telling that the Knicks' offense was arguably as good when he was off the floor. I like Brunson; he's a dog and I like short players. But I think Hali is clearly better.

I'd take all Pacers' starters over Knicks starters except for the five spot. I think it's 1. Hali 2. Brunson (maybe lower but trying not to overeact) T3. Siakim/KAT. KATs really hard to rate. Siakim is great. KAT is the type of player who loses you games but could also win you the series, and I really don't know where to put that.

Not trying to hate on the Knicks at a bad time; it's just how I see it.

Apparently there are a lot of Bulls fans like me who are actually rooting for NY due to appreciation of Thibs. Plus for me, liking the grit of the Nova Knicks.

So yeah, this talk feels like kicking them while they’re down, but just honestly discussing what I’m seeing out there even though…I’m actually rooting for them. It’s just not gonna happen though.

I see it the same as you, to a tee actually.

Love rooting for the small guy who is incredible amongst these freaks of all freaks, but do think a small guy limits your ceiling in most cases. Agree on the heliocentric point as well. Honestly that’s why I think Luka, basically a big version of Brunson, can get you farther because of size, but I have strong doubts about his ability to get a team all the way over the top due to his style.

KAT is a conundrum wrapped in an enigma and all that kind of saying. Totally get it. I just wrote a post in a brand new Myles vs KAT thread talking about how maddening it must be to have KAT on your team.

[ArksNetsSince99]

I'm not mad at Pascal. He should be calling us out. We've been a dumpster fire for like 3 seasons.

I didn’t liked Indiana trading for Pascal tbh

Boy was I wrong about this one

So you were one of the five Pacers fans I was arguing with before the trade, that Indy was best fit for Pascal. lol.

No it wasn’t me for sure

But i did not like the trade from Indiana standpoint at the time , that’s is true

[___Rand___]

Yeah he was on his contract year Pacers gave 3 #1's and Bruce Brown, Jordan Nwara. I was against it at the time because of the the 2026 #1 pick. But the trade worked out fine as Pascal Signed a long term deal. I didn't think he'd sign.

Apparently Siakam made it known he wanted to go to Indiana.

The Haliburton effect.

Could be or he just decided he liked the situation after playing with Haliburton and Turner.

The story in Toronto was before the trade Pascal was looking for a certain number for his extension, and his agent had discussions with a number of teams. Pacers were willing to give that to him, and Pacers' management made his team feel welcome over there. So that's when Pacers got engaged in serious discussions with Raps for the trade.

Same thing happened with OG. He wanted a number, and more touches on offense. Knicks gave that to him.

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

Yeah he was on his contract year Pacers gave 3 #1's and Bruce Brown, Jordan Nwara. I was against it at the time because of the the 2026 #1 pick. But the trade worked out fine as Pascal Signed a long term deal. I didn't think he'd sign.

Apparently Siakam made it known he wanted to go to Indiana.

The Haliburton effect.

Could be or he just decided he liked the situation after playing with Haliburton and Turner.

It was said even before the trade he wanted to go there.

[ArksNetsSince99]

Apparently Siakam made it known he wanted to go to Indiana.

The Haliburton effect.

Could be or he just decided he liked the situation after playing with Haliburton and Turner.

The story in Toronto was before the trade Pascal was looking for a certain number for his extension, and his agent had discussions with a number of teams. Pacers were willing to give that to him, and Pacers' management made his team feel welcome over there. So that's when Pacers got engaged in serious discussions with Raps for the trade.

Same thing happened with OG. He wanted a number, and more touches on offense. Knicks gave that to him.

If Knicks traded for Pascal and Pacers for OG I’m afraid this series would’ve look little different right now

Pascal clearly made OG his son this series

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

Yeah he was on his contract year Pacers gave 3 #1's and Bruce Brown, Jordan Nwara. I was against it at the time because of the the 2026 #1 pick. But the trade worked out fine as Pascal Signed a long term deal. I didn't think he'd sign.

Apparently Siakam made it known he wanted to go to Indiana.

The Haliburton effect.

You can check the acquisition threads. I thought you guys robbed Toronto.

I can’t remember my exact thoughts, I think for me it was “it’s a good deal if we sign him” type thing. I didn’t feel like we gave up much as two late picks in a horrible draft didn’t mean much, so we’ll see about the 2026 pick.

I will say, Siakam is significantly better than I realized.