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Thibs needs to go

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Re: Thibs needs to go 

Post#1621 » by Kidknick! » Wed May 28, 2025 4:22 pm

KnicksGadfly wrote:I think the argument that we should keep Thibs because you could get a worse coach doesn’t hold water with me.

If a coach can’t get you to the ring, then you need to let him go. If you don’t have confidence in finding another coach who can get the team to take the next step, fire the FO and find one that can.


EXACTLY! There is an expiration date on the players. If we continue to have this coach and his archaic philosophy we will continue to tread water.

The goal that EVERY team should have is to win a championship, not simply be "Good Enough". That's a loser mentality, and if that's the case why even look into making the roster better at all... This is something that seems to infect teams and fans of team with extended periods of losing, that the work is done and you're great when you're actually simply "Good".

The question is, do the Knicks want to be the NBA equivalent to the Buffalo Bills? A good team that's not good enough to win a championship due to hanging on to a caretaker coach?
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Re: Thibs needs to go 

Post#1622 » by NYKat » Wed May 28, 2025 4:47 pm

gavran wrote:
NYKat wrote:
gavran wrote:
That's great, but 2 out of 3 losses, the Knicks didn't need a big difference, a small one could have this series be 2-2 or even 3-1 instead.


If you have to play a perfect game just to be even, it means you’re not good enough.


OK? That was the Pacers the last 3 minutes of game 1. Not sure what are you trying to say here, do you think the Knicks played close to perfection, or...?


I think we’re too far away for those details to have significantly swung the balance of the series
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Re: Thibs needs to go 

Post#1623 » by Woodsanity » Wed May 28, 2025 5:01 pm

NYKat wrote:
HopelessKnick wrote:
NYKat wrote:I’m as frustrated as anyone with Thibs habitual short rotation and minutes allocation and uncreative offense scheming. I also thought when Thibs was hired he would only be able to take us so far….

Having said that, Thibs has earned the right to get another shot coaching this team next year. Making the ECF indicates that Thibs has done nothing but improve every year he’s been here. So firing him after he took us further than anyone has in 20 years is just flat out stupid.

People just assume firing the coach automatically means we’ll be better, that’s a pretty arrogant and uncertain assumption.

For all of our handwringing about Thibs stubbornness, the fact of the matter is he HAS shown an ability to tbe flexible, over the course of his career, and make adjustments with his back against the wall (he did expand his rotation and change the starters in this series, after all).

Pacers are the better team, overall.
So I know it’s cute to think that giving Deuce McBride 10 more minutes per game instead of Josh Hart would have made some big difference, I can’t blame Thibs substitution patterns on this series loss. I think one of the biggest factors in the Pacers success, is that their front office has allowed their team to grow organically without making any big knee jerk changes.

So even though the popular opinion is to fire and trade everyone when we lose, i think the worst thing the FO could do is make a panic change. The BIGGEST indicator of improvement in this league is continuity and chemistry and since the core of this team has barely been together 2 years, it’s absolutely imperative that the FO allows this team at least ONE more year to build on their experience and cohesiveness that they’ve developed together.

And that includes giving coach another year to prove that he can grow and adapt with this unit as well.


Well this logic is just off. Of course when a team is leading the other team 3-1 it looks like that team is better. Yet you couldn't find almost anyone prior to the season that would have compared the two teams and came to the conclusion that the Pacers are better. Carlisle's coaching makes them look better for sure, but they are not better in terms of talent and everything.


They’ve made it to the ECF two years in a row, what other logic do you need?

I think its a mix of roster fit + great coaching. Fitwise Towns was not a good acquisition since he is a defensive liability who does not fit well with Brunson. We can live with one defensive liability but two is too much to overcome.

The Pacers are not necessarily more talented but their team is far better constructed. Siakim + Hali have good synergy. They have a bunch of 3&D guys and a great coach that can utilize them well.

On the other hand Brunson and Towns are a horrible fit so far and I am not a fan of Mikal. Maybe a different coach can do better. I don't know with our current coach and our current roster we are an ECF team max (if we get a bit lucky like this season).
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Re: Thibs needs to go 

Post#1624 » by NYKat » Wed May 28, 2025 5:12 pm

Basically, until Thibs underachieves (which he has yet to do) he should keep the job, yall trying to fix something that ain’t broke
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Re: Thibs needs to go 

Post#1625 » by Capn'O » Wed May 28, 2025 5:27 pm

I think Cassell would have a lot to impart on JB. They share a lot of attributes and Sam has gotten over the hump a few times a a player and coach.
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Re: Thibs needs to go 

Post#1626 » by KnicksGadfly » Wed May 28, 2025 5:36 pm

NYKat wrote:
KnicksGadfly wrote:I think the argument that we should keep Thibs because you could get a worse coach doesn’t hold water with me.

If a coach can’t get you to the ring, then you need to let him go. If you don’t have confidence in finding another coach who can get the team to take the next step, fire the FO and find one that can.


I think the argument that the coach can’t get you to the ring just because he hasn’t done so with a team that’s only been together for a year is equally faulty.


Sure. But that's a separate argument.

1) Don't get rid of Thibs because we might not get a better coach <-- TRASH ARGUMENT
2) Thibs might or might not improve to become a championship level approach <-- maybe worth talking about

For me, I think it's not about the time. It's about evaluating what he's done and in that evaluation, he's failing. Biggest thoughts from my end is that we've been playing a losing starting lineup for a lot longer than necessary, and our path to improvement at this point seems to be internal. It might be that our players are flawed, but we can't get rid of someone like Mikal for super cheap after investing so much in him. I don't trust Thibs at this point to be the guy that can revive these guys' value or to be the guy to make a Brunson and KAT lineup work or to even empower KAT.
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Re: Thibs needs to go 

Post#1627 » by HopelessKnick » Wed May 28, 2025 6:34 pm

Thibs has coached some good teams. He had star players like Butler, KAT, Rose, JB on his teams. He has had MVPs, DPOYs, 60 win teams---he really has had a lot of talent on his teams. Yet the talking points among fans have always been the same. Uncreative offense, iso-ball, short rotations, running starters into the ground, limited playoff success etc. etc. Bulls and Wolves fans that you talk to essentially are telling you that they have been discussing exactly the same stuff over Thibs. The fact that he has not made a single finals appearance despite having a MVP, 1st seed, second seed, third seed etc. should really give even the staunchest Thibs supporter some pause. Why does he always fail in the playoffs?

Thibs has been in the NBA since 1989. The fair question would be to fans still supporting him: What in the world would make you think that in his 38th season or so he is going to address his weaknesses and learn from his shortcomings? The guy is almost 70 years old and has been in basketball since his childhood. You bring him back, you get exactly the same stuff.
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Re: Thibs needs to go 

Post#1628 » by MagicTownBaller » Wed May 28, 2025 6:41 pm

Hey there Knicks fans, Magic fan here. My cousin is a die hard Knicks fan and I've been a rooting for you guys in the playoffs.

Just curious, is the general consensus among Knicks fans to get rid of Thibs at the end of the season? My cousin is one of the ones that wants to keep him because he doesn't think you guys can get a better coach and feel he brings respect.
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Re: Thibs needs to go 

Post#1629 » by HopelessKnick » Wed May 28, 2025 6:56 pm

MagicTownBaller wrote:Hey there Knicks fans, Magic fan here. My cousin is a die hard Knicks fan and I've been a rooting for you guys in the playoffs.

Just curious, is the general consensus among Knicks fans to get rid of Thibs at the end of the season? My cousin is one of the ones that wants to keep him because he doesn't think you guys can get a better coach and feel he brings respect.


In all honesty it is a very difficult thing to say. It really depends on who you ask really. I personally believe that a majority of Knick fans wants a coaching change but it is impossible to say whether that majority is 55% to 45% or 80% to 20%. As a Thibs critic I have to concede that I do think that at the very least Thibs does have 20% supporters, maybe more...maybe significantly more.
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Re: Thibs needs to go 

Post#1630 » by Pr0nzingis » Wed May 28, 2025 6:59 pm

KnicksGadfly wrote:
NYKat wrote:
KnicksGadfly wrote:I think the argument that we should keep Thibs because you could get a worse coach doesn’t hold water with me.

If a coach can’t get you to the ring, then you need to let him go. If you don’t have confidence in finding another coach who can get the team to take the next step, fire the FO and find one that can.


I think the argument that the coach can’t get you to the ring just because he hasn’t done so with a team that’s only been together for a year is equally faulty.


Sure. But that's a separate argument.

1) Don't get rid of Thibs because we might not get a better coach <-- TRASH ARGUMENT
2) Thibs might or might not improve to become a championship level approach <-- maybe worth talking about



Are u honestly saying Thibs can change? It's 2025, he's a 67 year old and been on the NBA for almost 40 years.

Good luck.

We are on a playoff run where he gave 10 minutes do the bench vs piston, 20m vs celtics and now its doing 9-10 rotations because Brunson is exhausted.
We just played a game where Bridges barely touched the ball during all the game and took all the shots in the final minutes, because Brunson the clutch league MVP was exhausted and had ZERO trust on himself.

Forget about developing the bench, he doesn't even develop the starters. I can't understand how a FO that gave all those assets for Bridges would think keeping thibs is an option.
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Re: Thibs needs to go 

Post#1631 » by Barcs » Wed May 28, 2025 7:11 pm

It doesn't matter who your coach is when your 2 best scorers are complete liabilities on defense and you are surrounded by low basketball IQ players. I used to be annoyed when Thibs didn't want to take time outs when down one possession at the end of a game, but now I'm realizing it's because the players are so mistake prone, they likely won't get the ball in, let alone get a good shot attempt. These guys can't even keep track of the shot clock and commit so many awful fouls.

The problem is the talent, they don't mesh well, especially down the stretch when basically whoever touches the ball first takes the shot. Meanwhile you see Indiana having every player touch the ball on almost every possession. I swear Towns just gets that look in his eye and there could be 4 pacers standing in front of the rim and he'll still go at them. They simply can't work together because of the way the team is assembled. It's a bunch of egos, not a bunch of team first guys.

Josh Hart - All hart, no brains
KAT - a chucker who doesn't play defense and rarely looks to pass, shouldn't be a center
Bridges - Streaky shooter, decent defender, but doesn't seem to fit in and makes many boneheaded mistakes
OG - Elite defender, but seriously needs to stop trying to dribble. Stick to 3 & D
Jalen Brunson - Tries to do too much, doesn't pass enough and can't play defense.
Mitch Robinson - elite defender and rebounder, but can't play offense or even make free throws. Can only be used situationally due to hack-a-mitch

Thibs has to coach around all these personnel issues and I think he's doing great considering what he has to work with, not to mention they still need a good bench scorer to complete the team and have been missing such a piece all season. I also think that Jalen Brunson bailing them out constantly in the clutch masked a lot of the actual problems with this team and make people forget that this teams is absolutely gassed during the last 2 minutes of every single game and it's noticeable with the mistakes they make.
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Re: Thibs needs to go 

Post#1632 » by KnicksGadfly » Wed May 28, 2025 7:14 pm

Pr0nzingis wrote:
KnicksGadfly wrote:
NYKat wrote:
I think the argument that the coach can’t get you to the ring just because he hasn’t done so with a team that’s only been together for a year is equally faulty.


Sure. But that's a separate argument.

1) Don't get rid of Thibs because we might not get a better coach <-- TRASH ARGUMENT
2) Thibs might or might not improve to become a championship level approach <-- maybe worth talking about



Are u honestly saying Thibs can change? It's 2025, he's a 67 year old and been on the NBA for almost 40 years.

Good luck.

We are on a playoff run where he gave 10 minutes do the bench vs piston, 20m vs celtics and now its doing 9-10 rotations because Brunson is exhausted.
We just played a game where Bridges barely touched the ball during all the game and took all the shots in the final minutes, because Brunson the clutch league MVP was exhausted and had ZERO trust on himself.

Forget about developing the bench, he doesn't even develop the starters. I can't understand how a FO that gave all those assets for Bridges would think keeping thibs is an option.


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Re: Thibs needs to go 

Post#1633 » by Grinditout » Wed May 28, 2025 7:25 pm

Just randomly thought about Larry Brown, eventually the game passed him. Maybe it's just Thibs' time now.
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Re: Thibs needs to go 

Post#1634 » by The KnicksFix » Wed May 28, 2025 7:47 pm

NYKat wrote:Basically, until Thibs underachieves (which he has yet to do) he should keep the job, yall trying to fix something that ain’t broke


Tf are you watching???
He kept hart in the game who played 36 minutes, yet deuce, and Delon can’t see the court. Deuce played FIFTEEN MINUTES TOTAL. Delon played 2 minutes in the second half. Tf are you talking about. The playoffs is about adjustments. We aren’t trying to win the regular season, we are trying to win the chip.
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Re: Thibs needs to go 

Post#1635 » by The KnicksFix » Wed May 28, 2025 8:00 pm

Barcs wrote:It doesn't matter who your coach is when your 2 best scorers are complete liabilities on defense and you are surrounded by low basketball IQ players. I used to be annoyed when Thibs didn't want to take time outs when down one possession at the end of a game, but now I'm realizing it's because the players are so mistake prone, they likely won't get the ball in, let alone get a good shot attempt. These guys can't even keep track of the shot clock and commit so many awful fouls.

The problem is the talent, they don't mesh well, especially down the stretch when basically whoever touches the ball first takes the shot. Meanwhile you see Indiana having every player touch the ball on almost every possession. I swear Towns just gets that look in his eye and there could be 4 pacers standing in front of the rim and he'll still go at them. They simply can't work together because of the way the team is assembled. It's a bunch of egos, not a bunch of team first guys.

Josh Hart - All hart, no brains
KAT - a chucker who doesn't play defense and rarely looks to pass, shouldn't be a center
Bridges - Streaky shooter, decent defender, but doesn't seem to fit in and makes many boneheaded mistakes
OG - Elite defender, but seriously needs to stop trying to dribble. Stick to 3 & D
Jalen Brunson - Tries to do too much, doesn't pass enough and can't play defense.
Mitch Robinson - elite defender and rebounder, but can't play offense or even make free throws. Can only be used situationally due to hack-a-mitch

Thibs has to coach around all these personnel issues and I think he's doing great considering what he has to work with, not to mention they still need a good bench scorer to complete the team and have been missing such a piece all season. I also think that Jalen Brunson bailing them out constantly in the clutch masked a lot of the actual problems with this team and make people forget that this teams is absolutely gassed during the last 2 minutes of every single game and it's noticeable with the mistakes they make.


Word? So with all these liabilities, we were up 9 with 50 seconds to go in game 1, but where was our defensive lineup ? What told Thibs to re insert Brunson when he had 5 fouls and 6 minutes to go with us up 16 at the end of that game?

What told Thibs to go into the fourth quarter down 6 in game 2, call timeout down 12 and come back out of the timeout with the SAME LINEUP WHICH INCLUDED CAM PAYNE.

What told Thibs to not call timeout down 3 at the end of game 2 and we drew up no play other than Brunson chucking up a contested 3, where we had a timeout to use and settle a play.

What told Thibs to go back to play Josh hart 36 minutes when he had 5 turnovers, and mikal who kept bricking shot after shot, yet Delon was on the bench, and deuce who has the highest +/- in the series only played 15 minutes ?

What told Thibs to not develop a bench all year, kolek pac and huk can’t see the light of the court and can’t even make a mistake once because they’re benched for another month.

What are you talking about ?
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Re: Thibs needs to go 

Post#1636 » by treachery » Wed May 28, 2025 9:09 pm

The KnicksFix wrote:
Barcs wrote:It doesn't matter who your coach is when your 2 best scorers are complete liabilities on defense and you are surrounded by low basketball IQ players. I used to be annoyed when Thibs didn't want to take time outs when down one possession at the end of a game, but now I'm realizing it's because the players are so mistake prone, they likely won't get the ball in, let alone get a good shot attempt. These guys can't even keep track of the shot clock and commit so many awful fouls.

The problem is the talent, they don't mesh well, especially down the stretch when basically whoever touches the ball first takes the shot. Meanwhile you see Indiana having every player touch the ball on almost every possession. I swear Towns just gets that look in his eye and there could be 4 pacers standing in front of the rim and he'll still go at them. They simply can't work together because of the way the team is assembled. It's a bunch of egos, not a bunch of team first guys.

Josh Hart - All hart, no brains
KAT - a chucker who doesn't play defense and rarely looks to pass, shouldn't be a center
Bridges - Streaky shooter, decent defender, but doesn't seem to fit in and makes many boneheaded mistakes
OG - Elite defender, but seriously needs to stop trying to dribble. Stick to 3 & D
Jalen Brunson - Tries to do too much, doesn't pass enough and can't play defense.
Mitch Robinson - elite defender and rebounder, but can't play offense or even make free throws. Can only be used situationally due to hack-a-mitch

Thibs has to coach around all these personnel issues and I think he's doing great considering what he has to work with, not to mention they still need a good bench scorer to complete the team and have been missing such a piece all season. I also think that Jalen Brunson bailing them out constantly in the clutch masked a lot of the actual problems with this team and make people forget that this teams is absolutely gassed during the last 2 minutes of every single game and it's noticeable with the mistakes they make.


Word? So with all these liabilities, we were up 9 with 50 seconds to go in game 1, but where was our defensive lineup ? What told Thibs to re insert Brunson when he had 5 fouls and 6 minutes to go with us up 16 at the end of that game?

What told Thibs to go into the fourth quarter down 6, call timeout down 12 and come back out of the timeout with the SAME LINEUP WHICH INCLUDED CAM PAYNE.

What told Thibs to not call timeout down 3 at the end of game 2 and we drew up no play other than Brunson chucking up a contested 3, where we had a timeout to use and settle a play.

What told Thibs to go back to play Josh hart 36 minutes when he had 5 turnovers, and mikal who kept bricking shot after shot, yet Delon was on the bench, and deuce who has the highest +/- in the series only played 15 minutes ?

What told Thibs to not develop a bench all year, kolek pac and huk can’t see the light of the court and can’t even make a mistake once because they’re benched for another month.

What are you talking about ?


People sneer- but if you developed Kolek as the 'beautiful basketball' backup, it would be such a refreshing change of pace that we could be employing right now.

Someone who gets shooters shots in rythmn, runs a silky pick and roll, is totally unselfish.

When these guys start flowing, everything unlocks- I think Kolek could have been key to that.

But, no- we get this senile old bum completely fumbling our first chance at the Finals since a friggin' different century.

Blew it.
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Re: Thibs needs to go 

Post#1637 » by Kidknick! » Wed May 28, 2025 9:41 pm

The double standards and just plain AWFUL takes from Thibs defenders are just laughable. Y'all can just sit there and cast judgement on the players, this guy sucks, that guy stinks, yet your boy and his DREADFUL coaching decisions are beyond reproach just because we got to the ECF and beat Boston?

Who is in charge of playing time and substitutions? Who should be developing players but isn't?

What exactly are you people watching?

The evidence that a coaching change has been necessary has been in front of your eyes all season.

Straight loser mentality.
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Re: Thibs needs to go 

Post#1638 » by KnixinSix » Wed May 28, 2025 9:58 pm

Fanchise chimes in.....

BTW Fanchise most definitely has a guy on the inside (he called KAT with serious conviction about a month before it happened)

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Re: Thibs needs to go 

Post#1639 » by KnixinSix » Wed May 28, 2025 10:09 pm

FANchise specifically states thats not speculation or opinion either.... Sounds like there is a legit chance there is a Head coach change.

I wonder if Johnnie Bryant who is one of the finalists for the Phx job is on the shortlist
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Re: Thibs needs to go 

Post#1640 » by TheGreenArrow » Wed May 28, 2025 11:54 pm

KnixinSix wrote:FANchise specifically states thats not speculation or opinion either.... Sounds like there is a legit chance there is a Head coach change.

I wonder if Johnnie Bryant who is one of the finalists for the Phx job is on the shortlist


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