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2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8

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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#621 » by PhilBlackson » Wed May 28, 2025 5:49 pm

Dalek wrote:Jamir Watkins is going to be a great pro and is a good fit for Toronto. We love our athletes who compete on defense and can be swiss army knives on ball.
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Watkins is in the mold of wings we like including AJ Lawson and Jared Rhoden but I think he has even more self-creation skill (68% unassisted at the rim; 93% unassisted 2 pointers; 16 Ast%).

Also, he played with Scottie Barnes' brother at FSU for the past two years and likely has a connection with Scottie. I think he is highly likely to be a Raptor given the Mogbo pick last year.


Well that and the 2nd rd talent is really thinning out.

I’ll still be praying to use this pick plus those cash considerations from the Davion trade (plus maybe that 2nd) to move into the back end of the 1st to get one of Fleming or Yang.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#622 » by Mark_83 » Wed May 28, 2025 6:05 pm

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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#623 » by earthtone » Wed May 28, 2025 6:05 pm

Dalek wrote:May 28 deadline day.

Recent top 60 guys who withdrew:
• Otega Oweh (just withdrew)
• Yaxel Lendeborg (Going to Michigan to to the Danny Wolf role)
• Alex Condon (Florida)
• Milo Uzan (Houston)
• Boogie Fland (Florida)
• Mackenzie Mgbako
• Darrion Williams (Texas Tech)
• Karter Knox (Arkansas)

Still waiting on
• Adou Thiero
• Yanic Niederhauser
• Tahaad Pettiford
• Miles Byrd
• Jamir Watkins
• RJ Luis
• Neoklis Avdalas
• Ben Henshall
• Hugo Gonzalez

I think Avdalas goes the NCAA route, maybe Henshall too, but I think the rest of the guys end up staying in
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#624 » by OakleyDokely » Wed May 28, 2025 6:15 pm

Dalek wrote:Jamir Watkins is going to be a great pro and is a good fit for Toronto. We love our athletes who compete on defense and can be swiss army knives on ball.
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Watkins is in the mold of wings we like including AJ Lawson and Jared Rhoden but I think he has even more self-creation skill (68% unassisted at the rim; 93% unassisted 2 pointers; 16 Ast%).

Also, he played with Scottie Barnes' brother at FSU for the past two years and likely has a connection with Scottie. I think he is highly likely to be a Raptor given the Mogbo pick last year.


7.7 FT attempts per game is kinda insane.

His .590 free throw rate has to be near the top of the draft class.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#625 » by Mark_83 » Wed May 28, 2025 6:27 pm

PhilBlackson wrote:
Dalek wrote:Jamir Watkins is going to be a great pro and is a good fit for Toronto. We love our athletes who compete on defense and can be swiss army knives on ball.
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Watkins is in the mold of wings we like including AJ Lawson and Jared Rhoden but I think he has even more self-creation skill (68% unassisted at the rim; 93% unassisted 2 pointers; 16 Ast%).

Also, he played with Scottie Barnes' brother at FSU for the past two years and likely has a connection with Scottie. I think he is highly likely to be a Raptor given the Mogbo pick last year.


Well that and the 2nd rd talent is really thinning out.

I’ll still be praying to use this pick plus those cash considerations from the Davion trade (plus maybe that 2nd) to move into the back end of the 1st to get one of Fleming or Yang.

I was insanely high on him going into the Year. He didn't quite have the year I was expecting but I still really like him as a player. He's like a poor man's Jalen Williams. With that said, I'm just not sure where he would fit on our roster with Barrett, Walter, Ochai, and Dick at his primary position, and Ingram, Battle, and Mogbo at his secondary.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#626 » by Psubs » Wed May 28, 2025 6:29 pm

Yallbecrazy wrote:
Dalek wrote:


Boogie Fland is already out of the draft and committed to Florida - so that shoots down that idea.
https://sports.yahoo.com/article/boogie-fland-shocks-college-basketball-132528906.html



My god Florida is returning their whole team and replacing Clayton with Fland? If they get a high end shooting guard with some creation they will probably go undefeated even while playing in the SEC.


Apparently they are pairing him with Xavian Lee.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#627 » by Mark_83 » Wed May 28, 2025 6:32 pm

Dalek wrote:May 28 deadline day.

Recent top 60 guys who withdrew:
• Otega Oweh (just withdrew)
• Yaxel Lendeborg (Going to Michigan to to the Danny Wolf role)
• Alex Condon (Florida)
• Milo Uzan (Houston)
• Boogie Fland (Florida)
• Mackenzie Mgbako
• Darrion Williams (Texas Tech)
• Karter Knox (Arkansas)

Still waiting on
• Adou Thiero
• Yanic Niederhauser
• Tahaad Pettiford
• Miles Byrd
• Jamir Watkins
• RJ Luis
• Neoklis Avdalas
• Ben Henshall
• Hugo Gonzalez

According to this you can remove Watkins from the still waiting list.

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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#628 » by WuTang_CMB » Wed May 28, 2025 6:35 pm

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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#629 » by Mark_83 » Wed May 28, 2025 6:36 pm

WuTang_OG wrote:
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#630 » by grant101 » Wed May 28, 2025 6:45 pm

Dalek wrote:Jamir Watkins is going to be a great pro and is a good fit for Toronto. We love our athletes who compete on defense and can be swiss army knives on ball.
Read on Twitter


Watkins is in the mold of wings we like including AJ Lawson and Jared Rhoden but I think he has even more self-creation skill (68% unassisted at the rim; 93% unassisted 2 pointers; 16 Ast%).

Also, he played with Scottie Barnes' brother at FSU for the past two years and likely has a connection with Scottie. I think he is highly likely to be a Raptor given the Mogbo pick last year.


Took a bit of a step back this year shooting wise, but was also asked to do everything for that team. I agree that he has all the earmarks of a good pro. Having a more defined role will be great for him. Ask him to focus on 3&D and I think his percentages go up. Great at getting to the line, underrated playmaker and solid defender. Was a fan last year and remain so. I would still take Markovic, Yang and Broome ahead of him in the second, but would not be upset at all if he’s the choice
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#631 » by Pericles » Wed May 28, 2025 6:47 pm

I love Watkins, but I doubt he’ll be on the board at 39.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#632 » by Lord_Zedd » Wed May 28, 2025 7:01 pm

WuTang_OG wrote:
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I think he worked out for us too recently...

With NIL, there's no reason for a guy like him to burn 3 more years of college play, only to get burned at a chance to get drafted and/or flame out after a year or two in the NBA.

This year's draft class mostly consists of either freshman or seniors. There's hardly any sophomores with just Boyles and Byrd projected to be drafted. Junior class isn't looking any better either
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#633 » by LoveMyRaps » Wed May 28, 2025 7:07 pm

WuTang_OG wrote:
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This quality of this draft class has dropped quite a bit these last two days.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#634 » by billy_hoyle » Wed May 28, 2025 7:10 pm

LoveMyRaps wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:
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This quality of this draft class has dropped quite a bit these last two days.


Because of three to four bubble 1st rounders?
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#635 » by DG88 » Wed May 28, 2025 7:10 pm

Not surprised Pettiford went back. He didn't have a first round guarantee. Another year of college and probably being a full time starter will put him in first round conversation next year in a deep draft.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#636 » by Basketball_Jones » Wed May 28, 2025 7:12 pm

I’m more open now to choosing a point guard as odds are IQ and Shead aren’t good enough. Fears won’t be there though so we’d have to look at Kasp or something. Not too interested in pure 2’s remaining as Tre is the main one I’m most confident about after Harper and he’ll be gone.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#637 » by niQ » Wed May 28, 2025 7:14 pm

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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#638 » by Grew » Wed May 28, 2025 7:18 pm

nivisi9 wrote:
Grew wrote:
nivisi9 wrote:I'm starting to wish it ends up being Kon, he could literally turn out to be our best offensive player on the team immediately.


So the dude who took a backseat in college to the dude people are worried about being a good enough scorer to be a superstar, is going to be a better option on offense day 1 than Brandon Ingram? Insane expectation of a guy who is an eerily similar prospect to Gradey dick, who we already have.

Daily reminder that everything said about Kon in college was said about Gradey. Difference is Gradey didn't have cooper to play off of and Maluach to throw lobs to.


None of that is true. You are talking out of your ass because he's white ,can shoot, and that's all you know and basing your garbage assessment on

His game is not very similar to Dick besides both were known as elite shooters.

Dick was a pylon stick + terrible defender in college, wasn't a facilitator whatsoever, didn't score efficiently at the basket, didn't have a high FT rate like Kon, didn't have elite defensive metrics, didn't run Pick and roll offense whatsoever, doesn't have Kons handle or offensive skills off the dribble.

So no..

no one was saying that Dick and Kon were "eerily" the same lol whoever actually watched them play and accessed their performance and skills.

Kon was elite across the board as a freshman, especially as a facilitator. Historical elite efficiency everywhere on the floor. He is much more solid physically then Dick and had elite defensive analytics (not that he will likely be a plus defender but very high defensive IQ, can absorb contact, numbers indicate he was a positive in college).

Take a backseat to a generational prospect some are claiming since LeBron? lol what does that even mean? because he didn't force more shots as a freshman but was elite at everything when he had usage? which was still high for a typical freshman

Obviously he probably wouldn't be 1# offensive player as a rookie, the point being he's that good and efficient that its atleast possible efficiency wise, but more so that he'd be instantly impactful is the main point. Most rookies are a net negative in impact. I thought we traded for Ingram and trying to win now? He's 28 yrs old the window has started


Here are some standout metrics that support Kon’s offensive profile and defensive performance as a freshman:


Per-possession defensive stats:
  • 27% FG allowed on drives (95 total)
  • 30% FG allowed on jumpers (26% off the dribble)
  • 33% FG at the rim
  • 27% FG in pick-and-roll (70 possessions)

- Offensive stats: 14.4 PPG, 63.8% TS, 2:1 AST:TO ratio over 38 games.

- Shooting splits: 40% from 3, 90% from FT line, with elite creation and passing flashes.

Here are some standout metrics that support Kon’s offensive profile:

- 1.169 PPP off screens (70th percentile) — smooth, balanced, quick release.
- 1.226 PPP as a cutter and 1.119 PPP in transition (95th percentile).
- 2.6 APG with a low turnover rate as a secondary creator.
- 1.114 PPP in pick-and-rolls (93rd percentile as a ball handler).
- Quick, compact release with advanced shot prep mechanics.
- Draws fouls and hits nearly 90% of FTs.
- Physical defender — boxes out, bumps cutters, contests shots inside the arc.
- Strong help defender — allows just 0.782 PPP on defense (85th percentile).

Having IQ and Kon both highly efficient + high volume 3PT shooters in the backcourt could actually unleash Ingram + Scottie offensive environment to scary potential..

thats kinda tantalizingly intriguing.


Go ahead and use those same stats for Gradey and see where he shakes out. I bet pretty close on most.

Category Gradey Dick (2022–23) Kon Knueppel (2024–25)
Points/Game 14.1 14.4
Rebounds/Game 5.1 4.0
Assists/Game 1.5 2.7
FG% 44.2% 47.2%
3PT% 40.4% 39.2%
FT% 85.4% 91.4%
Team Record Kansas: 28–8 Duke: 35–4

I don't care a ton for advanced stats with no eye test context but the free throw rate is 22.6 for Gradey 23.1 for Kon. True shooting and EFG are 58.1 and 54.7 for Gradey, 58.9 and 54.5 for Kon.

Even the assist rate is similar although Kon seemed to have more ball handler duties in reality, 9.4 for Gradey 12.3 for Kon. While Gradey is doubling up his rebounding rates 8.9 to 4.4 for total rebound rates. Win shares, 4.6 for Kon 4.9 for Gradey. PER 18.4 for Gradey, 19.8 for Kon. Scoring Efficiency 1.489 for Kon 1.455 for Gradey. Assist to turnover 2.0 for Kon, 1.3 for Gradey. Steal to turnover 0.8 for Kon, 1.1 for Gradey.

Now start to take into account that Kon had a much better team, with a 7'2 paint rim protector and Cooper Flagg erasing mistakes on defense, while making his life a lot easier on offense. NBA prospects up and down the roster.

Then start to extrapolate what these guys are going to look like at the next level, which is a completely different game. They both will have the same roll. Movement shooter with connective ability. Kon is not going to have the ball running pick and rolls at the next level, at least not right away, almost certainly. People said the same things about their defense coming out of college, scouts know Kon is going to struggle same as Gradey, but they are both high IQ players who give good effort on that end, so they both have the possibility of ending up at least average defenders.

I've said it before, the main difference is strength vs athleticism. Kon will struggle to stay infront of quicker guards, when Gradey struggles with strength matchups. I've even said I think Kon might adjust a bit faster to the NBA because of this, but Gradey is going to get stronger and Kon isn't likely to get much more athletic.

So another daily reminder that these two prospects are eerily similar. I feel as if you are the one who didn't actually watch these guys play. If you did, then you forgot what Gradey actually looked like and how scouts felt about him at the next level.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#639 » by LoveMyRaps » Wed May 28, 2025 7:19 pm

billy_hoyle wrote:
LoveMyRaps wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:
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This quality of this draft class has dropped quite a bit these last two days.


Because of three to four bubble 1st rounders?


Ya - it doesn't affect us because we're drafting in the top 10. But teams outside of the lotto will have fewer options to choose from now.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#640 » by WuTang_CMB » Wed May 28, 2025 7:40 pm

perfect

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