Run it Back or Upgrade?

[BadMofoPimp]

Lakers fan here. Really enjoyed watching your team this year. I know we asked about Duren during the season, do you guys think there’s a Knecht for Duren trade that might make sense to revisit over the summer? We have our 2031 first to trade (when Luka is 31) and up to four swaps I think.

I thought Knecht could make some sense for you guys as a developmental shooter with Beasley and THJ as free agents and Ivey coming back. His defense is certainly a work in progress, but he has the size and athleticism to eventually be a passable wing defender IMO. His shot is legit and I think he’s going to get better and better at attacking close outs. I think it could work if he’s surrounded by athletes like Ausar and Holland. My impression from posts here and Reddit is that Stewart is considered a better player than Duren and the guy to be kept around long term.

But please let me know if I’m completely off on my assessment, I really try not to be the stereotypical Lakers fan demanding everyone’s good players lol. You guys have a fun, hard-working young team that I’d like to see become a mainstay in the East playoffs again.

To be honest, Centers are harder to find than guards then add in to the fact the Pistons have a bunch of guards already, so I would doubt Management would decrease the number of big men just to add another guard. Even with Beasely and THJ as free agents. Beasely wants to come back and the Pistons want him back then having Sasser off the bench with Auser, don't see a deal like this happening regardless if posters like Knect like I do as well. Duren and Cade have a chemistry and friendship as well. Good on paper, but would not happen in my opinion.

[MotownMadness]

Yeah it would be difficult to replace Duren after that trade. That a big no from me.

[Kalamazoo317]

I think it'd have to be more like Reaves for Duren and Fontecchio as a starting point for conversation. I like Duren and wouldn't want to part with him, but getting a young, secondary offensive option might make it worth considering.

There's absolutely no way they'd deal Reaves for Duren.

They can get decent bigmen more cheaply than that.

If they don't want to trade from their excess of playmaking guards, then we should feel no need to deal with them, imo.

[Snakebites]

I think it'd have to be more like Reaves for Duren and Fontecchio as a starting point for conversation. I like Duren and wouldn't want to part with him, but getting a young, secondary offensive option might make it worth considering.

There's absolutely no way they'd deal Reaves for Duren.

They can get decent bigmen more cheaply than that.

If they don't want to trade from their excess of playmaking guards, then we should feel no need to deal with them, imo.

I guess I’m thinking from a “we can’t extend all of these guys anyway” perspective. Carrying all of these young players on sizable extensions is unlikely to be a viable way forward.

I’m more inclined to package multiple guys to get upgrades, and like I said I wouldn’t do a deal like this without a center to replace Duren in mind. But I can imagine scenarios where shipping a guy like Duren out for more controllable assets might not be a terrible move- those assets can be packaged to attain upgrades, or open up other options.

That’s all I’ll say.

[Kalamazoo317]

Trading with the Lakers isn't my favorite thing (they don't really have anything I want), but I'd at least want to go after their best (reasonable) trade asset if I was going to take an offer seriously.

I think if we *did* do a swap like Duren for Reaves, Ivey probably gets moved next, so there'd likely be a domino effect.

[DET_Athletics]

Both, flipping Fonteccio, Hardaway and 2nds for someone that can help rebound and spread the floor.

Sent from my SM-S908U using RealGM mobile app

[Canadafan]

If we operate as an above the cap team, we can give our MLE to Beasley? No, right?
What kind of contracts can we give to Tim Dennis and Reed?

[bstein14]

If we operate as an above the cap team, we can give our MLE to Beasley? No, right?
What kind of contracts can we give to Tim Dennis and Reed?

If we operate as an above the cap team, Beasley could get up to our full MLE ($14.1 million in year one but could be something like 4 years $60+). THJ could then get $24 million with his bird rights and Schroeder could get $17 million. Because we waived Paul Reed and then resigned him he could only get the minimum from us, or we could use the BAE (bi-annual exception) which is about $5.1 million for 1 year or $10.3 over two seasons).

That would be if we didn't want to bring in any other FAs.

We could also operate as an above the cap team and essentially give all three guys(THJ, Schroeder and Beasley) 2 year $15 million deals with 2nd year team options essentially or making the 2nd year non guaranteed and then we'd still have our full MLE because we'd be using bird, early bird, and for Beasley 120% of his previous salary to resign players instead of having to use our exception on them.

That said, I also do think there is a pretty huge incentive to go below the cap because not many teams have cap space and a few teams will desperately need to shed some salary this summer. Also as of right now, only Brooklyn and Detroit could easily have more than the MLE to offer any FAs so its a very slim pickings market. Several teams are pretty much handicapped into only being able to give out minimum contracts due to where they sit.

TL has some tough decisions but some of that could be decided during the draft if they get some good deals to operate as a team with cap space they might renounce FAs with the hope of using the room exception to resign Beasley ($8.8 million).

[Crymson]

If we operate as an above the cap team, we can give our MLE to Beasley? No, right?
What kind of contracts can we give to Tim Dennis and Reed?

They would gain access to the full NTP-MLE (about $14m) by operating as an above-the-cap team, which they would do by signing some combination of Schroder, Hardaway, Reed, and Waters over their cap holds.

Schroder and THJ are eligible for far larger contracts than they'll get, $23 million in year one for Dennis and $54 million (the max) for Tim. Reed can receive only a little more than the minimum.

[Kalamazoo317]

Poll is at 50/50. I think more folks are realizing what we'd have to actually give up in order to majorly upgrade

[theBigLip]

From a good article in the FreePress:

Pistons cap space 2025

There are two different paths the Pistons can take to roster building this offseason.

In the unlikely scenario they operate as an under-the-cap team, the Pistons will have about $17 million in cap space after Cunningham made third-team All-NBA, increasing his 2025-26 salary from $38.6 million to $46.4 million. However, to use the space, the Pistons would have to renounce the rights to pending unrestricted free agents with Bird Rights in Tim Hardaway Jr. and Dennis Schröder. They could use the money to re-sign Malik Beasley or take in excess salary from another team — think Celtics 3-point shooting forward Sam Hauser — and then would have access to the $8.8 million room mid-level exception.

If the Pistons choose the more likely path to operate as an over-the-cap team (keeping the cap holds of (Hardaway and Schröder), they can use Bird Rights exceptions to re-sign the two while exceeding the salary cap. They would also have access to the non-taxpayer mid-level exception (MLE, $14.1 million) and bi-annual exception (BAE, $5.1 million). They could use the MLE to bring back Beasley, who they don’t have Bird Rights on after he signed a one-year, $6 million deal in 2024 free agency. They could opt to use the MLE to trade for a player whose salary is $14.1 million or less, like Hauser, who makes $10 million in 2025-26.

[Crymson]

From a good article in the FreePress:

Yep. Feel free to ask me anything about the CBA -- I've spent a lot of time learning it over the past however many years.

[Canadafan]

From a good article in the FreePress:

Yep. Feel free to ask me anything about the CBA -- I've spent a lot of time learning it over the past however many years.

It will be interesting to see which way we go with this

[theBigLip]

From a good article in the FreePress:

Yep. Feel free to ask me anything about the CBA -- I've spent a lot of time learning it over the past however many years.

It will be interesting to see which way we go with this

It seems better to be an over the cap team. So something like this:

Keep the cap holds of Hardaway and Schröder, w Bird Rights
Sign Beasley w non-taxpayer mid-level exception $14.1M max
Get backup PF (don’t know who) w bi-annual exception $5.1M max
Resign Hardaway and Schroder (or use one in sign/trade)

Look for minor trades w Fontecchio and Sassar

[Canadafan]

Yep. Feel free to ask me anything about the CBA -- I've spent a lot of time learning it over the past however many years.

It will be interesting to see which way we go with this

It seems better to be an over the cap team. So something like this:

Keep the cap holds of Hardaway and Schröder, w Bird Rights
Sign Beasley w non-taxpayer mid-level exception $14.1M max
Get backup PF (don’t know who) w bi-annual exception $5.1M max
Resign Hardaway and Schroder

Look for minor trades w Fontecchio and Sassar

Yes it does.

The other way, we use cap space to sign Beasley. Then use remaining to bring thjr back cheap or use it in a trade(with Fontecchio and Sasser for PJ or Portis?)Then give Shröder 8.8 exception. Hmmmm

Definitely seems more useful to be over the cap.
We could reward Shröder and Tim with fat 1 year deals. To lineup with Tobias expiring and make big splash at deadline with those expiring deals.
Reward Beasley with full MLE deal on multi year deal
Still have BAE of $5.1mil(who could we get with that?)
Still have opportunity to trade Fontecchio and Sasser

[theBigLip]

It will be interesting to see which way we go with this

It seems better to be an over the cap team. So something like this:

Keep the cap holds of Hardaway and Schröder, w Bird Rights
Sign Beasley w non-taxpayer mid-level exception $14.1M max
Get backup PF (don’t know who) w bi-annual exception $5.1M max
Resign Hardaway and Schroder

Look for minor trades w Fontecchio and Sassar

Yes it does.

The other way, we use cap space to sign Beasley. Then use remaining to bring thjr back cheap or use it in a trade(with Fontecchio and Sasser for PJ or Portis?)Then give Shröder 8.8 exception. Hmmmm

Definitely seems more useful to be over the cap.
We could reward Shröder and Tim with fat 1 year deals. To lineup with Tobias expiring and make big splash at deadline with those expiring deals.
Reward Beasley with full MLE deal on multi year deal
Still have BAE of $5.1mil(who could we get with that?)
Still have opportunity to trade Fontecchio and Sasser

We’d have Bird rights on Schroeder so no exceptions needed.

I don’t think we are getting anything for THJ unless someone is desperate to find an expiring.

[Canadafan]

It seems better to be an over the cap team. So something like this:

Keep the cap holds of Hardaway and Schröder, w Bird Rights
Sign Beasley w non-taxpayer mid-level exception $14.1M max
Get backup PF (don’t know who) w bi-annual exception $5.1M max
Resign Hardaway and Schroder

Look for minor trades w Fontecchio and Sassar

Yes it does.

The other way, we use cap space to sign Beasley. Then use remaining to bring thjr back cheap or use it in a trade(with Fontecchio and Sasser for PJ or Portis?)Then give Shröder 8.8 exception. Hmmmm

Definitely seems more useful to be over the cap.
We could reward Shröder and Tim with fat 1 year deals. To lineup with Tobias expiring and make big splash at deadline with those expiring deals.
Reward Beasley with full MLE deal on multi year deal
Still have BAE of $5.1mil(who could we get with that?)
Still have opportunity to trade Fontecchio and Sasser

We’d have Bird rights on Schroeder so no exceptions needed.

I don’t think we are getting anything for THJ unless someone is desperate to find an expiring.

[Canadafan]

It seems better to be an over the cap team. So something like this:

Keep the cap holds of Hardaway and Schröder, w Bird Rights
Sign Beasley w non-taxpayer mid-level exception $14.1M max
Get backup PF (don’t know who) w bi-annual exception $5.1M max
Resign Hardaway and Schroder

Look for minor trades w Fontecchio and Sassar

Yes it does.

The other way, we use cap space to sign Beasley. Then use remaining to bring thjr back cheap or use it in a trade(with Fontecchio and Sasser for PJ or Portis?)Then give Shröder 8.8 exception. Hmmmm

Definitely seems more useful to be over the cap.
We could reward Shröder and Tim with fat 1 year deals. To lineup with Tobias expiring and make big splash at deadline with those expiring deals.
Reward Beasley with full MLE deal on multi year deal
Still have BAE of $5.1mil(who could we get with that?)
Still have opportunity to trade Fontecchio and Sasser

We’d have Bird rights on Schroeder so no exceptions needed.

I don’t think we are getting anything for THJ unless someone is desperate to find an expiring.

Oh, I just meant if we were a cap space team. We'd have to use the exception on Shröder and cap space on Beasley and still have 5mil leftover. We could combine that in trading Fontecchio and sasser to afford Portis PJ or other
In this scenario we let Hardaway walk. Shröder takes smaller contract.

[Canadafan]

bstein14-
If we operate as an above the cap team, Beasley could get up to our full MLE ($14.1 million in year one but could be something like 4 years $60+). THJ could then get $24 million with his bird rights and Schroeder could get $17 million. Because we waived Paul Reed and then resigned him he could only get the minimum from us, or we could use the BAE (bi-annual exception) which is about $5.1 million for 1 year or $10.3 over two seasons).

Crymson-
Schroder and THJ are eligible for far larger contracts than they'll get, $23 million in year one for Dennis and $54 million (the max) for Tim. Reed can receive only a little more than the minimum

Who's right here?

[tmorgan]

bstein14-
If we operate as an above the cap team, Beasley could get up to our full MLE ($14.1 million in year one but could be something like 4 years $60+). THJ could then get $24 million with his bird rights and Schroeder could get $17 million. Because we waived Paul Reed and then resigned him he could only get the minimum from us, or we could use the BAE (bi-annual exception) which is about $5.1 million for 1 year or $10.3 over two seasons).

Crymson-
Schroder and THJ are eligible for far larger contracts than they'll get, $23 million in year one for Dennis and $54 million (the max) for Tim. Reed can receive only a little more than the minimum

Who's right here?

They’re both right.

Bstein is talking about what we could likely offer in that situation, operating as an over the cap team.
Crymson is talking about what they are eligible for in general from us.