Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga

[Jester_]

Actually I think you could add several other basketball related skills to a write up of both brown and kawhi at the same age. His development curve is nothing alike and my biggest concern with kuminga is that he just doesn’t seem to have the bbiq on either side of the ball.

But yes he could fix his shot like kawhi, it wouldn’t be wild but also seems more the exception than the norm with players of his profile.

what did you have in mind? I don't watch much CBB but both were touted as raw athletes with defensive upside and limited offensive potential. Kawhi def blew past that, Brown, not yet.

Defense is actually exactly what I had in mind. I watched more kawhi than brown at that age. But kawhi basically came in and blew everyone’s expectations out of the water on the defensive side. And most importantly, he looked like he belonged on the court, contributing to winning pretty much straight away.

So it seems we are asking a lot. Kuminga not only needs to tread the narrow path to being a knockdown shooter, he also needs to learn to dribble, defend and pass.

But I guess it depends what your expectations are. For me, I think he could be a really good role player if he accepts his role. Superstar is out of the question, he’s more likely to be out of the league in 3 years than become a kawhi level superstar.

kawhi and jalen brown were both cerebral and high IQ players from day 1. that's the big difference... the josh jacksons of the worlds are always basketball dumbasses, and that's how Kuminga is

[Onus]

what did you have in mind? I don't watch much CBB but both were touted as raw athletes with defensive upside and limited offensive potential. Kawhi def blew past that, Brown, not yet.

Defense is actually exactly what I had in mind. I watched more kawhi than brown at that age. But kawhi basically came in and blew everyone’s expectations out of the water on the defensive side. And most importantly, he looked like he belonged on the court, contributing to winning pretty much straight away.

So it seems we are asking a lot. Kuminga not only needs to tread the narrow path to being a knockdown shooter, he also needs to learn to dribble, defend and pass.

But I guess it depends what your expectations are. For me, I think he could be a really good role player if he accepts his role. Superstar is out of the question, he’s more likely to be out of the league in 3 years than become a kawhi level superstar.

kawhi and jalen brown were both cerebral and high IQ players from day 1. that's the big difference... the josh jacksons of the worlds are always basketball dumbasses, and that's how Kuminga is

Jk probably has more in common with John Collins than he does with kawhi tbf.

[Dubs 707]

If the opportunity presentes itself would you trade JK for Randel?

[Onus]

If the opportunity presentes itself would you trade JK for Randel?

Probably not. He doesn't really solve anything that we need.

[marthafokker]

One of the rumor out there is funny. Sounds like Kerr tanked JK's value with his blunder speech that Bulls offer Vuc for JK.... that would be funny if true.

Vuc might get similar DNP-CD like JK since he is too tall, slow, and can't defend.... let me reword... worse D than JK.

[Crazy-Canuck]

If the opportunity presentes itself would you trade JK for Randel?

No. Jk is the only path to get an actual wing. Wasting him to add a 3rd pf behind Jimmy and dray is a waste.

[vvoland]

Actually I think you could add several other basketball related skills to a write up of both brown and kawhi at the same age. His development curve is nothing alike and my biggest concern with kuminga is that he just doesn’t seem to have the bbiq on either side of the ball.

But yes he could fix his shot like kawhi, it wouldn’t be wild but also seems more the exception than the norm with players of his profile.

what did you have in mind? I don't watch much CBB but both were touted as raw athletes with defensive upside and limited offensive potential. Kawhi def blew past that, Brown, not yet.

Defense is actually exactly what I had in mind. I watched more kawhi than brown at that age. But kawhi basically came in and blew everyone’s expectations out of the water on the defensive side. And most importantly, he looked like he belonged on the court, contributing to winning pretty much straight away.

So it seems we are asking a lot. Kuminga not only needs to tread the narrow path to being a knockdown shooter, he also needs to learn to dribble, defend and pass.

But I guess it depends what your expectations are. For me, I think he could be a really good role player if he accepts his role. Superstar is out of the question, he’s more likely to be out of the league in 3 years than become a kawhi level superstar.

If he does everything you outline, he'll be 2-way superstar. With JK's current skills, if he becomes a knockdown shooter while improving his handle, passing, and defense? You just described Kawhi without the rebounds.

I do not remember jalen brown coming out of cal as a high IQ player, nor does he really have that rep now. Kawhi, if memory serves, came in as an athletic but undersized 4 that couldn't shoot or dribble; certainly not as a 'skilled' player. . He was a on-ball defender and rebounder but grew the handle and shot to incredible levels. I didn't expect JK to have that level of development, I thought he had more of those tools at 18 than kawhi did when he got drafted. I just thought he could develop into one of those big bodied, bully, wings, in the mold of kawhi or brown. Clearly, after 4 years, I no longer hold out much hope for this scenario.

That said, the john collins or josh jackson comparisons are off the mark. JK creates offense better than either of those guys and as we saw in the playoffs, that is a very valuable skill. Maybe not for this team when everyone is healthy but it's not as useless as Kerr makes it seem. His floor does seem to be magette. Josh jackson was playing in the phillipines by his second contract.

JK has a few paths to come close to realizing his potential, you mentioned all 3:

1. He becomes a consistent 3pt shooter and the 37 percent we saw his 2nd year (and in stretches since) is the new normal, on decently high volume. If he can do that and stabilize at 75%+ from the line, he can become one of the more efficient 25 ppg scorers in the league. How valuable is that? We'll all have our opinions. How likely? I'd say something like 35%-50%.. towards the bottom of that range if he stays or is traded to a team that doesn't have a role/shots for him. I think most disagree but we've all seen multiple stretches of ~10 games where he's shooting near 40% from 3 and 80 from the line, on decently high volume. I don't expect that to be consistent starting next year but I don't think it's an impossible scenario for him to reach that in a year or two and stay there. If he's 35/75, he's a borderline all-star. If he's 40/80, it's all-nba territory.

2. He becomes a lockdown, on-ball defender. He has shown glimpses, in certain matchups, and his peaks indicate he may have that potential. His struggles indicate he won't do it consistently. He was our best option on both randle and ant in the wolves series. He also continues to struggle navigating screens and is super lost off ball. I'd put those chances at 15-25%. Towards the higher end of that range if he gets paid and either stays here (willingly) or goes to a winning organization. If he does that, he'd be able to keep his current offensive flaws but still reach replacement all-star level (ala siakam).

3. He develops his handle and vision to the point that he starts to create good offense for the team while still keeping his scoring punch. It would allow him to not have to become a 3pt threat if he becomes the creator that Paul George became. I'd put these odds at like 3%.

I'm fine if everyone else thinks my probabilities are off by a factor of 10. It's sports. We'll find out soon enough. 24 months ago, if anyone told me that Haliburton was going to doing this.. or ant would be the face of the league (unwillingly).. or luka would be in LA, I would have thought they were insane. Life comes at you fast.

https://youtu.be/iQeieQRYCOI

The first highlight in the video was why I thought JK could be special. That's a hell of a pass for a scoring forward to see, much less make, at 17 years old. He takes one dribble and that pass is out of his hands. "That pass," in this case, being a 45 foot bounce pass in stride to a Jalen Green in full sprint. THAT'S why I always thought he was talented but the "he doesn't get it and never will" crowd may end up being right.

[DB23]

what did you have in mind? I don't watch much CBB but both were touted as raw athletes with defensive upside and limited offensive potential. Kawhi def blew past that, Brown, not yet.

Defense is actually exactly what I had in mind. I watched more kawhi than brown at that age. But kawhi basically came in and blew everyone’s expectations out of the water on the defensive side. And most importantly, he looked like he belonged on the court, contributing to winning pretty much straight away.

So it seems we are asking a lot. Kuminga not only needs to tread the narrow path to being a knockdown shooter, he also needs to learn to dribble, defend and pass.

But I guess it depends what your expectations are. For me, I think he could be a really good role player if he accepts his role. Superstar is out of the question, he’s more likely to be out of the league in 3 years than become a kawhi level superstar.

If he does everything you outline, he'll be 2-way superstar. With JK's current skills, if he becomes a knockdown shooter while improving his handle, passing, and defense? You just described Kawhi without the rebounds.

I do not remember jalen brown coming out of cal as a high IQ player, nor does he really have that rep now. Kawhi, if memory serves, came in as an athletic but undersized 4 that couldn't shoot or dribble; certainly not as a 'skilled' player. . He was a on-ball defender and rebounder but grew the handle and shot to incredible levels. I didn't expect JK to have that level of development, I thought he had more of those tools at 18 than kawhi did when he got drafted. I just thought he could develop into one of those big bodied, bully, wings, in the mold of kawhi or brown. Clearly, after 4 years, I no longer hold out much hope for this scenario.

That said, the john collins or josh jackson comparisons are off the mark. JK creates offense better than either of those guys and as we saw in the playoffs, that is a very valuable skill. Maybe not for this team when everyone is healthy but it's not as useless as Kerr makes it seem. His floor does seem to be magette. Josh jackson was playing in the phillipines by his second contract.

JK has a few paths to come close to realizing his potential, you mentioned all 3:

1. He becomes a consistent 3pt shooter and the 37 percent we saw his 2nd year (and in stretches since) is the new normal, on decently high volume. If he can do that and stabilize at 75%+ from the line, he can become one of the more efficient 25 ppg scorers in the league. How valuable is that? We'll all have our opinions. How likely? I'd say something like 35%-50%.. towards the bottom of that range if he stays or is traded to a team that doesn't have a role/shots for him. I think most disagree but we've all seen multiple stretches of ~10 games where he's shooting near 40% from 3 and 80 from the line, on decently high volume. I don't expect that to be consistent starting next year but I don't think it's an impossible scenario for him to reach that in a year or two and stay there. If he's 35/75, he's a borderline all-star. If he's 40/80, it's all-nba territory.

2. He becomes a lockdown, on-ball defender. He has shown glimpses, in certain matchups, and his peaks indicate he may have that potential. His struggles indicate he won't do it consistently. He was our best option on both randle and ant in the wolves series. He also continues to struggle navigating screens and is super lost off ball. I'd put those chances at 15-25%. Towards the higher end of that range if he gets paid and either stays here (willingly) or goes to a winning organization. If he does that, he'd be able to keep his current offensive flaws but still reach replacement all-star level (ala siakam).

3. He develops his handle and vision to the point that he starts to create good offense for the team while still keeping his scoring punch. It would allow him to not have to become a 3pt threat if he becomes the creator that Paul George became. I'd put these odds at like 3%.

I'm fine if everyone else thinks my probabilities are off by a factor of 10. It's sports. We'll find out soon enough. 24 months ago, if anyone told me that Haliburton was going to doing this.. or ant would be the face of the league (unwillingly).. or luka would be in LA, I would have thought they were insane. Life comes at you fast.

https://youtu.be/iQeieQRYCOI

The first highlight in the video was why I thought JK could be special. That's a hell of a pass for a scoring forward to see, much less make, at 17 years old. He takes one dribble and that pass is out of his hands. "That pass," in this case, being a 45 foot bounce pass in stride to a Jalen Green in full sprint. THAT'S why I always thought he was talented but the "he doesn't get it and never will" crowd may end up being right.

For sure, everyone is entitled to their opinion so respect for that. Yes I think it’s over optimistic from what I’ve seen. Then there is the problem of what type of contract you have to offer to pay for potential. Basically we are saying there is a greater than 50/50 chance he doesn’t amount to much. Which is why I’d only want him in 15-20 per max

Let’s see what the future holds. I just find it irritating that everyone blames Kerr for his inability.

And I have plenty of other criticisms of Kerr!

[vvoland]

For sure, everyone is entitled to their opinion so respect for that. Yes I think it’s over optimistic from what I’ve seen. Then there is the problem of what type of contract you have to offer to pay for potential. Basically we are saying there is a greater than 50/50 chance he doesn’t amount to much. Which is why I’d only want him in 15-20 per max

Let’s see what the future holds. I just find it irritating that everyone blames Kerr for his inability.

And I have plenty of other criticisms of Kerr!

Pretty much. I think it's probably 50/50. Many think it's closer to 30/70. Then there's the crowd who think it's 10/90 and JK is the Congolese Josh Jackson. I also think if he improves just a bit in most areas and peaks at that level, he's a solid starter (just one step above where he is today). That's already 15-20M/yr, and not what I would categorize as "doesn't amount to much." I don't like the John Collins comp but if JK has that type of career, I wouldn't be surprised. In fact, it's probably the most likely outcome. That said, I've never seen John Collins be able to see, much less attempt, the bounce pass I saw from JK at 17. Looks like I still have hope.

I think it's absolutely fair to put some of the responsibility on Kerr (or, more accurately, the coaching staff). Especially as I'm hearing quite a bit of reporting along the lines of "significant factions of the coaching staff and FO don't like JK, never liked JK, didn't want to draft JK, and are pissed they haven't traded JK." To be clear, all of that disdain isn't due to some personality issue, work ethic, etc. It's just the idea that he doesn't fit. That is a far cry from saying JK bears no responsibility for where he's found himself after 4 years. Let's not absolve the coaches, either. I doubt anyone would argue he's been put in the best position to succeed and given the rope to work through mistakes. Neither he nor Moody have gotten nearly the same room to play as Podz. I think both JK and Moody would be much better players if they were given that type of runway. Would we have lost more games in those 4 seasons? Quite possibly. Not saying Kerr, et al. had an easy job but just because it's hard doesn't mean they succeeded.

As far as contracts go, 4/80 would be pretty damn appealing (5/100 even more so). I think that's pretty much what he's worth today, based on his production as a bench scorer/5th starter. It's roughly what Grayson Allen is getting. Or Vuc. Less than Dylan Brooks. Towards the end of that deal, he'd be getting paid Non-Taxpayer Mid Level money, especially if we front load and it descends. I'd happily sign that contract today and see if there's a shot he improves, whether for this team's success or, more likely, as trade bait. Anything above 25M/yr and I'd start getting cold feet, too.

In doesn't sound like we're too far apart.

[vvoland]

Giddey wants 5/120, reportedly. If that's the contract JK gets, i'd be fine with keeping him. 24/yr for 5 years? I'd rather pay that to JK than Giddey but I doubt JK can ask for more than the bulls give josh. should be an interesting negotiation

[TB]

To me there isn’t much reasoning that JK should get what Giddey ends up with. Giddey was 21/11/9 since the allstar break and the clear cornerstone to their future. He’s also improved his 3 point shot every single season. Him and JK could not have more opposite trajectories since they didn’t get extensions last year.

If Giddey gets 24m a year, Kuminga really should max out at 20m and even that would be basing a ton on perceived potential.

Its now offseason 5 with Kuminga and i’ve had the same thoughts every single one of them: I’ll cheer for him if he's on the team because i’m a fan and he’s awesome to watch when he’s having a good game… but he’s a terrible fit, has never helped Steph get closer to a title, and we should swap him if possible.

My favorite S&T option would be Kuminga (starting at 20m) for Davion Mitchell (starting at 16m) and Highsmith. We get two players that fill multiple needs around Steph/Jimmy/Dray.

[vvoland]

To me there isn’t much reasoning that JK should get what Giddey ends up with. Giddey was 21/11/9 since the allstar break and the clear cornerstone to their future. He’s also improved his 3 point shot every single season. Him and JK could not have more opposite trajectories since they didn’t get extensions last year.

If Giddey gets 24m a year, Kuminga really should max out at 20m and even that would be basing a ton on perceived potential.

Its now offseason 5 with Kuminga and i’ve had the same thoughts every single one of them: I’ll cheer for him if he's on the team because i’m a fan and he’s awesome to watch when he’s having a good game… but he’s a terrible fit, has never helped Steph get closer to a title, and we should swap him if possible.

My favorite S&T option would be Kuminga (starting at 20m) for Davion Mitchell (starting at 16m) and Highsmith. We get two players that fill multiple needs around Steph/Jimmy/Dray.

If I cared more to learn how to use the available data better, I'm sure I could come up with a ~20 game stretch for JK that also looks really good. As it is, all I have is monthly splits but some of those look terrific. That's despite the dubs never giving JK the keys, like the bulls did with Giddey, and allowed him to feast on a bunch of March/April tanking teams, while losing 90% of their games. I think we can all imagine the counting stats for JK if Steph got traded and they just handed Kuminga 35 mins a night and all the usage he could want.

This isn't to say I think JK should get paid like Giddey; Josh has the bulls over a barrel. That said, in terms of actual player value, I don't think those two are that far apart.

[TB]

To me there isn’t much reasoning that JK should get what Giddey ends up with. Giddey was 21/11/9 since the allstar break and the clear cornerstone to their future. He’s also improved his 3 point shot every single season. Him and JK could not have more opposite trajectories since they didn’t get extensions last year.

If Giddey gets 24m a year, Kuminga really should max out at 20m and even that would be basing a ton on perceived potential.

Its now offseason 5 with Kuminga and i’ve had the same thoughts every single one of them: I’ll cheer for him if he's on the team because i’m a fan and he’s awesome to watch when he’s having a good game… but he’s a terrible fit, has never helped Steph get closer to a title, and we should swap him if possible.

My favorite S&T option would be Kuminga (starting at 20m) for Davion Mitchell (starting at 16m) and Highsmith. We get two players that fill multiple needs around Steph/Jimmy/Dray.

If I cared more to learn how to use the available data better, I'm sure I could come up with a ~20 game stretch for JK that also looks really good. As it is, all I have is monthly splits but some of those look terrific. That's despite the dubs never giving JK the keys, like the bulls did with Giddey, and allowed him to feast on a bunch of March/April tanking teams, while losing 90% of their games. I think we can all imagine the counting stats for JK if Steph got traded and they just handed Kuminga 35 mins a night and all the usage he could want.

This isn't to say I think JK should get paid like Giddey; Josh has the bulls over a barrel. That said, in terms of actual player value, I don't think those two are that far apart.

Very valid points. While the trajectories are opposite, there are some clear advantages Giddey has had in terms of timing and opportunities (and fit, although because of Giddey’s improved shot he basically fits anywhere).

My guess is Giddey gets a bit more than that report, maybe 26-28m a year or something (still less than Suggs and others), and while JK in that same scenario would probably get 22-24m or something like that, his situation has a real threat of him getting screwed over this offseason. Like you said, the Bulls pretty much have to sign Giddey and have the money to do it, while JK may be forced to see what options are out there in an offseason with nobody having cap space.

[xdrta+]

My favorite S&T option would be Kuminga (starting at 20m) for Davion Mitchell (starting at 16m) and Highsmith. We get two players that fill multiple needs around Steph/Jimmy/Dray.

That would be a tricky trade to pull off. Mitchell is in the same situation as JK, subject to the same BYC restrictions in an S&T. While the Warriors would count $10M (using your numbers) going out and 21M coming back (2 players), Miami would count 13M going out and 20M coming in. Both teams would be hard-capped at the 1st apron also. Could be done, of course, but would probably need more players and another team involved.

[vvoland]

To me there isn’t much reasoning that JK should get what Giddey ends up with. Giddey was 21/11/9 since the allstar break and the clear cornerstone to their future. He’s also improved his 3 point shot every single season. Him and JK could not have more opposite trajectories since they didn’t get extensions last year.

If Giddey gets 24m a year, Kuminga really should max out at 20m and even that would be basing a ton on perceived potential.

Its now offseason 5 with Kuminga and i’ve had the same thoughts every single one of them: I’ll cheer for him if he's on the team because i’m a fan and he’s awesome to watch when he’s having a good game… but he’s a terrible fit, has never helped Steph get closer to a title, and we should swap him if possible.

My favorite S&T option would be Kuminga (starting at 20m) for Davion Mitchell (starting at 16m) and Highsmith. We get two players that fill multiple needs around Steph/Jimmy/Dray.

If I cared more to learn how to use the available data better, I'm sure I could come up with a ~20 game stretch for JK that also looks really good. As it is, all I have is monthly splits but some of those look terrific. That's despite the dubs never giving JK the keys, like the bulls did with Giddey, and allowed him to feast on a bunch of March/April tanking teams, while losing 90% of their games. I think we can all imagine the counting stats for JK if Steph got traded and they just handed Kuminga 35 mins a night and all the usage he could want.

This isn't to say I think JK should get paid like Giddey; Josh has the bulls over a barrel. That said, in terms of actual player value, I don't think those two are that far apart.

Very valid points. While the trajectories are opposite, there are some clear advantages Giddey has had in terms of timing and opportunities (and fit, although because of Giddey’s improved shot he basically fits anywhere).

My guess is Giddey gets a bit more than that report, maybe 26-28m a year or something (still less than Suggs and others), and while JK in that same scenario would probably get 22-24m or something like that, his situation has a real threat of him getting screwed over this offseason. Like you said, the Bulls pretty much have to sign Giddey and have the money to do it, while JK may be forced to see what options are out there in an offseason with nobody having cap space.

Before we even get to all of the details, just look at this:

Career minutes for players from the same draft class:

Kuminga: 5600
Giddey: 8200

Giddey has played ~50% more NBA minutes than JK. Let that marinade for a minute. 50 PERCENT.

Edit: JK's best stretch came in Jan - Apr of the 23-24 season, shorlty after Dray came back from suspension. In 56 games he put up ~20/5.5/3 on 55/36/80 shooting splits.

[bay2hk]

My favorite S&T option would be Kuminga (starting at 20m) for Davion Mitchell (starting at 16m) and Highsmith. We get two players that fill multiple needs around Steph/Jimmy/Dray.

That would be a tricky trade to pull off. Mitchell is in the same situation as JK, subject to the same BYC restrictions in an S&T. While the Warriors would count $10M (using your numbers) going out and 21M coming back (2 players), Miami would count 13M going out and 20M coming in. Both teams would be hard-capped at the 1st apron also. Could be done, of course, but would probably need more players and another team involved.

We have the full MLE. We should just offer that to Mitchell. Doubt anyone else would offer him more except for Miami. Nets are not planning to pursue Kuminga so I think we should just give JK the $8m QO.

[TB]

If I cared more to learn how to use the available data better, I'm sure I could come up with a ~20 game stretch for JK that also looks really good. As it is, all I have is monthly splits but some of those look terrific. That's despite the dubs never giving JK the keys, like the bulls did with Giddey, and allowed him to feast on a bunch of March/April tanking teams, while losing 90% of their games. I think we can all imagine the counting stats for JK if Steph got traded and they just handed Kuminga 35 mins a night and all the usage he could want.

This isn't to say I think JK should get paid like Giddey; Josh has the bulls over a barrel. That said, in terms of actual player value, I don't think those two are that far apart.

Very valid points. While the trajectories are opposite, there are some clear advantages Giddey has had in terms of timing and opportunities (and fit, although because of Giddey’s improved shot he basically fits anywhere).

My guess is Giddey gets a bit more than that report, maybe 26-28m a year or something (still less than Suggs and others), and while JK in that same scenario would probably get 22-24m or something like that, his situation has a real threat of him getting screwed over this offseason. Like you said, the Bulls pretty much have to sign Giddey and have the money to do it, while JK may be forced to see what options are out there in an offseason with nobody having cap space.

Before we even get to all of the details, just look at this:

Career minutes for players from the same draft class:

Kuminga: 5600
Giddey: 8200

Giddey has played ~50% more NBA minutes than JK. Let that marinade for a minute. 50 PERCENT.

Edit: JK's best stretch came in Jan - Apr of the 23-24 season, shorlty after Dray came back from suspension. In 56 games he put up ~20/5.5/3 on 55/36/80 shooting splits.

Kind of funny how on draft day Draymond texted Bob Myers “Kuminga” when it was their pick…. and yet going to a team with Draymond is probably the worst think thats happened to Kuminga’s career.

(obviously not Dray’s fault, Warriors could have prioritized a Lopez like stretch 5 long ago to at least give Kuminga the chance at being a 3 with this team)

[TB]

My favorite S&T option would be Kuminga (starting at 20m) for Davion Mitchell (starting at 16m) and Highsmith. We get two players that fill multiple needs around Steph/Jimmy/Dray.

That would be a tricky trade to pull off. Mitchell is in the same situation as JK, subject to the same BYC restrictions in an S&T. While the Warriors would count $10M (using your numbers) going out and 21M coming back (2 players), Miami would count 13M going out and 20M coming in. Both teams would be hard-capped at the 1st apron also. Could be done, of course, but would probably need more players and another team involved.

We have the full MLE. We should just offer that to Mitchell. Doubt anyone else would offer him more except for Miami. Nets are not planning to pursue Kuminga so I think we should just give JK the $8m QO.

Ya, there is a scenario we could use full MLE on Mitchell, which i’d be fine with. I just assume the Heat will match that, so my theory is that getting creative with S&Ts get both teams something out of the deal that they want, while we avoid having the heat just match.

[vvoland]

That would be a tricky trade to pull off. Mitchell is in the same situation as JK, subject to the same BYC restrictions in an S&T. While the Warriors would count $10M (using your numbers) going out and 21M coming back (2 players), Miami would count 13M going out and 20M coming in. Both teams would be hard-capped at the 1st apron also. Could be done, of course, but would probably need more players and another team involved.

We have the full MLE. We should just offer that to Mitchell. Doubt anyone else would offer him more except for Miami. Nets are not planning to pursue Kuminga so I think we should just give JK the $8m QO.

Ya, there is a scenario we could use full MLE on Mitchell, which i’d be fine with. I just assume the Heat will match that, so my theory is that getting creative with S&Ts get both teams something out of the deal that they want, while we avoid having the heat just match.

What's the number below which we can get the full MLE?

[statsman]

Nets are not planning to pursue Kuminga ...

How do you know this for certain? I don't. Everything right now is rumor and probably a lot of misdirection coming from the teams, players, and agents.

Right now, the Nets are stating they will keep Cam and all four of their first round picks, assuming they can't cobble some of them together and trade up in the draft. Could be true, or it could be a smokescreen to up the price for Cam and their first round picks.