The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2

[Rebound Mound]

Everyday I enter this forum to check out on new ideas.
Most of the proposal keep asking for a ton of picks for KD for a team that is going to keep Booker and, possibly, Beal (for lack of takers or lack of decent offers).

We need players that can contribute now, as we are not waiting for years to compete again. Maybe players that can be in the second stage of development and with the intuition that they can get into a higher stage.

With that said, I believe we would be taking players who have already played 3/4 years in this league, or longer, and that fits the games of Booker and Beal and can fit the system that the SOON TO BE new HC will implement.

Yesterday I proposed the name of Franz Wagner, who can play PG in a SF body and does not need a PG around. You can surround him with SGs and bigs.

[BobbieL]

Everyday I enter this forum to check out on new ideas.
Most of the proposal keep asking for a ton of picks for KD for a team that is going to keep Booker and, possibly, Beal (for lack of takers or lack of decent offers).

We need players that can contribute now, as we are not waiting for years to compete again. Maybe players that can be in the second stage of development and with the intuition that they can get into a higher stage.

With that said, I believe we would be taking players who have already played 3/4 years in this league, or longer, and that fits the games of Booker and Beal and can fit the system that the SOON TO BE new HC will implement.

Yesterday I proposed the name of Franz Wagner, who can play PG in a SF body and does not need a PG around. You can surround him with SGs and bigs.

This is a name that makes sense to me to pair with Booker.
In his prime years
Contract isn't too bad
And you are right, a player that makes sense next to Booker and Beal

[dremill24]

Everyday I enter this forum to check out on new ideas.
Most of the proposal keep asking for a ton of picks for KD for a team that is going to keep Booker and, possibly, Beal (for lack of takers or lack of decent offers).

We need players that can contribute now, as we are not waiting for years to compete again. Maybe players that can be in the second stage of development and with the intuition that they can get into a higher stage.

With that said, I believe we would be taking players who have already played 3/4 years in this league, or longer, and that fits the games of Booker and Beal and can fit the system that the SOON TO BE new HC will implement.

Yesterday I proposed the name of Franz Wagner, who can play PG in a SF body and does not need a PG around. You can surround him with SGs and bigs.

This is a name that makes sense to me to pair with Booker.
In his prime years
Contract isn't too bad
And you are right, a player that makes sense next to Booker and Beal

Im failing to see any realistic scenario where you can get Wagner while keeping Booker.

[Slim Charless]

I don't have specifics just frameworks but I have always thought Durant would net the Suns

Expirings
One young rotational player with upside potential
Maybe two FRPs at best

Granted, with MN out, NYKnicks out, maybe Houston wanting to match OKC, or the Spurs - there can be a bidding war that increases the above just a little. And if I am the Suns, I still do it. No time for pride. That doesn't mean a bad deal - that just doesn't mean a mega deal for Durant

No offense bro, but you would trade our guys for mostly anything. Anything. Magic beans. A coupon to 7-11. Whatever. You're down to move Booker and Durant.

I've consistently seen wild packages that you've posted these past few months where you post these trades to help out other teams while making us bad. I've seen you post trades where we take on bad money and give either player. I've seen you post trades where we give up picks and either player.

You want to trade our players, not to make the team better but because you want them gone. That has been made abundantly clear.

You dont care what we get. You want them gone. That is an idea that needs to be tempered.

I think you actually have me mistaken . I am tired of seeing trade proposals where the Suns give up picks for average players.

but you say take on bad money. its called an EXPIRING contract.... to make the math work. there is not going to be a team that bends over for the Suns like Ishbia did for Durant. It just isn't happen in a Durant trade

If we could wager - I would wager more that the "framework" of a Durant trade is closesr to my reality than some of these others like getting Cassell, Sochon and 3 FRPs for Durant. Thats just not happening

As far as giving away Booker - I have never given away Booker. It has always been about maximizing his value. I have always wanted an A trade for Booker but for Durant, understand it would be a B type trade. The Suns aren't going anywhere - they are in purgatory -- so yes, to move forward, I think they need to move Devin Armani Booker. God forbid....

That's just the point.

Your idea of an A+ trade is wildly off....because you want him gone. You say any trade for him is good. You post stuff and say "this is an awesome get for Booker"

...and the return is trash.

You've done it multiple times then me or GoK usually come in and point out that is a terrible return. I'll give you an example of one you found on Twitter with us sending him to the Spurs and posted it-all excitedly and the return got neither their pick this year or Castle. For Booker.

That's just an example of stuff like that. But maybe I'm being unfair. There are guys here that will trade him to HOU for only our picks back....so we can tank and "maybe" get a guy as good as Booker is. Your ideas are better than those.

I see this as our only chance to fix the team and as such, you need to go for blood on the trade, both with him and Durant for that matter.

What's an example of a good trade for Booker? Cause I too, want to trade him but I think you'll accept returns for him that I wouldn't even entertain.

[BobbieL]

No offense bro, but you would trade our guys for mostly anything. Anything. Magic beans. A coupon to 7-11. Whatever. You're down to move Booker and Durant.

I've consistently seen wild packages that you've posted these past few months where you post these trades to help out other teams while making us bad. I've seen you post trades where we take on bad money and give either player. I've seen you post trades where we give up picks and either player.

You want to trade our players, not to make the team better but because you want them gone. That has been made abundantly clear.

You dont care what we get. You want them gone. That is an idea that needs to be tempered.

I think you actually have me mistaken . I am tired of seeing trade proposals where the Suns give up picks for average players.

but you say take on bad money. its called an EXPIRING contract.... to make the math work. there is not going to be a team that bends over for the Suns like Ishbia did for Durant. It just isn't happen in a Durant trade

If we could wager - I would wager more that the "framework" of a Durant trade is closesr to my reality than some of these others like getting Cassell, Sochon and 3 FRPs for Durant. Thats just not happening

As far as giving away Booker - I have never given away Booker. It has always been about maximizing his value. I have always wanted an A trade for Booker but for Durant, understand it would be a B type trade. The Suns aren't going anywhere - they are in purgatory -- so yes, to move forward, I think they need to move Devin Armani Booker. God forbid....

That's just the point.

Your idea of an A+ trade is wildly off....because you want him gone. You say any trade for him is good. You post stuff and say "this is an awesome get for Booker"

...and the return is trash.

You've done it multiple times then me or GoK usually come in and point out that is a terrible return. I'll give you an example of one you found on Twitter with us sending him to the Spurs and posted it-all excitedly and the return got neither their pick this year or Castle. For Booker.

That's just an example of stuff like that. But maybe I'm being unfair. There are guys here that will trade him to HOU for only our picks back....so we can tank and "maybe" get a guy as good as Booker is. Your ideas are better than those.

I see this as our only chance to fix the team and as such, you need to go for blood on the trade, both with him and Durant for that matter.

What's an example of a good trade for Booker? Cause I too, want to trade him but I think you'll accept returns for him that I wouldn't even entertain.

I am not saying don't maximize Durant and go for the blood, I am saying, the Suns are not going to get back nearly as much as some people think Kevin Durant will bring back because of two things
1) his name is Kevin Durant so I think people have his value higher than the current version of Kevin Durant and not the version from 6-8 years or even 28 months ago
2) the Suns overpaid for him so they don't want to sell low on the dollar. I am passed that -

As for Booker -- its tough because Houston is the best trade partner and I don't want Green but would focus on players like Smith Whitmore Eason, there draft picks back (all three) plus another FRP and whatever cap filler makes the trade work.

Truthfully - what is Devin booker worth - who the hell knows. Heck the trade above might be asking for too much as I see his value probably closer to maybe peak Klay or above DeRozan.

[TeamTragic]

#1: KD will have tremendous value around the league especially in the WC
#2: Wolves easily have the worst package and Matt has already said we are not dumping KD for hot garbage
#3: We are almost done with the coaching search and each candidate is legit

[Puff]

There are three simple facts that will happen this summer.
1. We will not trade Booker
2. We probably will trade KD - That is if the return is worth the trade
3. Beal will be gone, maybe -That is depending on what the new head coach wants to do with him.

Well, there are no simple facts as to what is going to happen this summer. They all have conditions.

I just hope we don't get hosed on whatever changes we make. That has happened on every move we have made starting with the KD trade.

[thamadkant]

If Suns wants picks, Rockets are the best chance for it.

The Rockets will not gut their roster of talent but they will compromise on picks and pick swaps.

Suns ideally should ask for FVV, 2025 Pick 10, Suns Pick 2027 OR Suns Pick 2029 and a young prospect who Rockets are willing to give up.
Suns should be happy with that as Suns need a floor leader in FVV. Rockets will likely then replace FVV with another cheap veteran PG or develop one of their young ones. Hopefully they have a true leader to lead them though.

[BringinDaRuckus]

If Suns wants picks, Rockets are the best chance for it.

The Rockets will not gut their roster of talent but they will compromise on picks and pick swaps.

Suns ideally should ask for FVV, 2025 Pick 10, Suns Pick 2027 OR Suns Pick 2029 and a young prospect who Rockets are willing to give up.
Suns should be happy with that as Suns need a floor leader in FVV. Rockets will likely then replace FVV with another cheap veteran PG or develop one of their young ones. Hopefully they have a true leader to lead them though.

Well, they will have KD to lead them!

I wonder if CP3 would entertain the idea of going back to the Rockets if KD is there.

PG: Chris Paul
SG: Jalen Green
SF: Kevin Durant
PF: Amen Thompson
C: Alperen Sengun

Looks good on paper for a starting squad.

[Slim Charless]

#1: KD will have tremendous value around the league especially in the WC
#2: Wolves easily have the worst package and Matt has already said we are not dumping KD for hot garbage
#3: We are almost done with the coaching search and each candidate is legit

I think KD will have value as well.

More to the point, I think that having Giannis out there will increase our leverage some, but I kinda see it as win-win. If there's no Giannis then Kd is the only option. If he is out there then by all accounts MIL is going to ask for the world. Take the Spurs a Giannis package will likly include both Castle and #2 pick. By contrast, us asking for #14, Sochan and an ATL pick or 2 isn't crazy. Personally, i think we can get Castle from them but I am in the minority there so w/e.

The coach will help decide this too, if we get Quinn-which I hope we do then I am thinking strongly about a Ware-centric package along with their pick as I know Quinn will have a plan with Ware and we can hit the ground runnig with a very talented 5. At #14 we can then take a PG like 1 of the 2 Euros from BYU or Illnios.

[Slim Charless]

If Suns wants picks, Rockets are the best chance for it.

The Rockets will not gut their roster of talent but they will compromise on picks and pick swaps.

Suns ideally should ask for FVV, 2025 Pick 10, Suns Pick 2027 OR Suns Pick 2029 and a young prospect who Rockets are willing to give up.
Suns should be happy with that as Suns need a floor leader in FVV. Rockets will likely then replace FVV with another cheap veteran PG or develop one of their young ones. Hopefully they have a true leader to lead them though.

Well, they will have KD to lead them!

I wonder if CP3 would entertain the idea of going back to the Rockets if KD is there.

PG: Chris Paul
SG: Jalen Green
SF: Kevin Durant
PF: Amen Thompson
C: Alperen Sengun

Looks good on paper for a starting squad.

Trading FVV makes 0 sense if they are trying to win now as he knows Ime's system and has won a ring as a starting PG. A move that makes sense there will have to involve Brooks as he is redundant with Amen there. So like Brooks/Jabari/Green and our picks. I would even include our #29 to balance out the 3 picks we are getting back from him and might fine with letting them the swap they have as well. Green, I would then try and send to Dallas as they have too many bigs and nothing in the backcourt. We can probably get Gafford/Klay and a future pick from them.

[BobbieL]

If Suns wants picks, Rockets are the best chance for it.

The Rockets will not gut their roster of talent but they will compromise on picks and pick swaps.

Suns ideally should ask for FVV, 2025 Pick 10, Suns Pick 2027 OR Suns Pick 2029 and a young prospect who Rockets are willing to give up.
Suns should be happy with that as Suns need a floor leader in FVV. Rockets will likely then replace FVV with another cheap veteran PG or develop one of their young ones. Hopefully they have a true leader to lead them though.

Well, they will have KD to lead them!

I wonder if CP3 would entertain the idea of going back to the Rockets if KD is there.

PG: Chris Paul
SG: Jalen Green
SF: Kevin Durant
PF: Amen Thompson
C: Alperen Sengun

Looks good on paper for a starting squad.

Trading FVV makes 0 sense if they are trying to win now as he knows Ime's system and has won a ring as a starting PG. A move that makes sense there will have to involve Brooks as he is redundant with Amen there. So like Brooks/Jabari/Green and our picks. I would even include our #29 to balance out the 3 picks we are getting back from him and might fine with letting them the swap they have as well. Green, I would then try and send to Dallas as they have too many bigs and nothing in the backcourt. We can probably get Gafford/Klay and a future pick from them.

Can the Suns afford to take on Green Brooks and Smith - by my count that adds up to $66m and the Rockets are only taking back Durant -- even if this done at the draft. So this would add money to next years cap and lux tax

[Rebound Mound]

Everyday I enter this forum to check out on new ideas.
Most of the proposal keep asking for a ton of picks for KD for a team that is going to keep Booker and, possibly, Beal (for lack of takers or lack of decent offers).

We need players that can contribute now, as we are not waiting for years to compete again. Maybe players that can be in the second stage of development and with the intuition that they can get into a higher stage.

With that said, I believe we would be taking players who have already played 3/4 years in this league, or longer, and that fits the games of Booker and Beal and can fit the system that the SOON TO BE new HC will implement.

Yesterday I proposed the name of Franz Wagner, who can play PG in a SF body and does not need a PG around. You can surround him with SGs and bigs.

This is a name that makes sense to me to pair with Booker.
In his prime years
Contract isn't too bad
And you are right, a player that makes sense next to Booker and Beal

Im failing to see any realistic scenario where you can get Wagner while keeping Booker.

That, my friend, is the problem.
I do not think we can make it work with KD, rookies, Allen and/or picks.
May be if Beal wanted to go to Florida...

[thamadkant]

If Suns wants picks, Rockets are the best chance for it.

The Rockets will not gut their roster of talent but they will compromise on picks and pick swaps.

Suns ideally should ask for FVV, 2025 Pick 10, Suns Pick 2027 OR Suns Pick 2029 and a young prospect who Rockets are willing to give up.
Suns should be happy with that as Suns need a floor leader in FVV. Rockets will likely then replace FVV with another cheap veteran PG or develop one of their young ones. Hopefully they have a true leader to lead them though.

Well, they will have KD to lead them!

I wonder if CP3 would entertain the idea of going back to the Rockets if KD is there.

PG: Chris Paul
SG: Jalen Green
SF: Kevin Durant
PF: Amen Thompson
C: Alperen Sengun

Looks good on paper for a starting squad.

Trading FVV makes 0 sense if they are trying to win now as he knows Ime's system and has won a ring as a starting PG. A move that makes sense there will have to involve Brooks as he is redundant with Amen there. So like Brooks/Jabari/Green and our picks. I would even include our #29 to balance out the 3 picks we are getting back from him and might fine with letting them the swap they have as well. Green, I would then try and send to Dallas as they have too many bigs and nothing in the backcourt. We can probably get Gafford/Klay and a future pick from them.

Rockets will trade FVV to make salary work. He's too expensive at the PG position and not being a star.

They can sign veteran PGs for vet minimum and also give their young guys minutes. The critical role for their PG would be defense and FVV is not the most athletic or longest player to achieve that.

[Saberestar]

Marc J. Spears:

Suns associate head coach and former NBA head coach David Fizdale is expected to be a part of a third round of interviews for the Suns head coach job. The former Grizzlies and Knicks head coach has the support of some key Suns players as well, sources said.

[thamadkant]

I'm hoping Suns FO saying Booker is not going is a way to trick other teams that they are not tanking therefore their picks are not guaranteed to be lottery picks.
I really hope if they trade KD and get good value, that they quickly trade Booker for more picks and young players. I think Spurs and Rockets are good trading partners for either Booker and KD. KD ideally for Rockets then Booker is then traded to Spurs for Castle and picks.

[thamadkant]

Marc J. Spears:

Suns associate head coach and former NBA head coach David Fizdale is expected to be a part of a third round of interviews for the Suns head coach job. The former Grizzlies and Knicks head coach has the support of some key Suns players as well, sources said.

I'm starting to think Fizdale is the problem. Backstabbing his head coaches and talking to players behind their backs hoping to get head coaching role. Suns have regressed each season Fizdale has joined as assistant.

[BobbieL]

Well, they will have KD to lead them!

I wonder if CP3 would entertain the idea of going back to the Rockets if KD is there.

PG: Chris Paul
SG: Jalen Green
SF: Kevin Durant
PF: Amen Thompson
C: Alperen Sengun

Looks good on paper for a starting squad.

Trading FVV makes 0 sense if they are trying to win now as he knows Ime's system and has won a ring as a starting PG. A move that makes sense there will have to involve Brooks as he is redundant with Amen there. So like Brooks/Jabari/Green and our picks. I would even include our #29 to balance out the 3 picks we are getting back from him and might fine with letting them the swap they have as well. Green, I would then try and send to Dallas as they have too many bigs and nothing in the backcourt. We can probably get Gafford/Klay and a future pick from them.

Rockets will trade FVV to make salary work. He's too expensive at the PG position and not being a star.

They can sign veteran PGs for vet minimum and also give their young guys minutes. The critical role for their PG would be defense and FVV is not the most athletic or longest player to achieve that.

I thought of the same trade as the math works pretty easy and they have Reed Shepherd- though he hasn't been that good. But could a guy like CP3 step in for Houston

Next 30 days is going to be very interesting - well once the finals are over it should ramp up

[BobbieL]

I'm hoping Suns FO saying Booker is not going is a way to trick other teams that they are not tanking therefore their picks are not guaranteed to be lottery picks.
I really hope if they trade KD and get good value, that they quickly trade Booker for more picks and young players. I think Spurs and Rockets are good trading partners for either Booker and KD. KD ideally for Rockets then Booker is then traded to Spurs for Castle and picks.

I doubt it. The message has been very strong they are not moving him.

I don't think Ish and Gregory are smart enough to play this type of gamesmanship with other teams.

But there is a model that works around Booker - try to recreate the team from 2021. STrong PG for starters

[mkot]

Trading FVV makes 0 sense if they are trying to win now as he knows Ime's system and has won a ring as a starting PG.

FVV was the backup to Kyle Lowry on that Raptors championship squad.

The Rockets have not extended him yet so clearly they are open to move him, their core is Sengun and Amen Thompson with a young supporter cast of Green, Whitmore, Jabari Smith and Tari Eason all under the age of 25, FVV doesn't fit their timeline.