Throw KD to the Wolves

[Mavrelous]

KD and O'Neale for Gobert and Randle, #17
Nick Richards into TPMLE

Each team tries a different look, Wolves get a great scorer and a shooter + 3&D forward, Suns get a defensive anchor and a bully ball scoring PF, Suns also draft 2 players at #17 and #29 to get younger.
P.S. this is a variation on GDC trade already proposed
viewtopic.php?p=118780050#p118780050

[ReggiesKnicks]

KD and O'Neale for Gobert and Randle, #17
Nick Richards into TPMLE

Each team tries a different look, Wolves get a great scorer and a shooter + 3&D forward, Suns get a defensive anchor and a bully ball scoring PF, Suns also draft 2 players at #17 and #29 to get younger.

Not sure why this needs a pick or O'Neale.

Is it even legal?

[Mavrelous]

KD and O'Neale for Gobert and Randle, #17
Nick Richards into TPMLE

Each team tries a different look, Wolves get a great scorer and a shooter + 3&D forward, Suns get a defensive anchor and a bully ball scoring PF, Suns also draft 2 players at #17 and #29 to get younger.

Not sure why this needs a pick or O'Neale.

Is it even legal?

Should be, PHO are sending 65 + 5, Wolves sending 66.
O'Neale is matching salary, I think value is off w/o the pick I hesitated between 2 picks and one pick.

[Domejandro]

KD and O'Neale for Gobert and Randle, #17
Nick Richards into TPMLE

Each team tries a different look, Wolves get a great scorer and a shooter + 3&D forward, Suns get a defensive anchor and a bully ball scoring PF, Suns also draft 2 players at #17 and #29 to get younger.

Not sure why this needs a pick or O'Neale.

Is it even legal?

Should be, PHO are sending 65 + 5, Wolves sending 66.
O'Neale is matching salary, I think value is off w/o the pick I hesitated between 2 picks and one pick.

Second Apron teams cannot consolidate players in trades, so the proposed trade is 100% illegal, unless Phoenix found a way to shed a ton of salary to get under the Second Apron.

The interesting angle is finding a way to integrate a third team. For example (this is purely to illustrate salary, not analyzing value), if Rudy Gobert could be broken up into Nikola Vučević to Phoenix and Lonzo Ball to Minnesota (removing the Royce O'Neal component), the trade would be legal.

[Mavrelous]

Not sure why this needs a pick or O'Neale.

Is it even legal?

Should be, PHO are sending 65 + 5, Wolves sending 66.
O'Neale is matching salary, I think value is off w/o the pick I hesitated between 2 picks and one pick.

Second Apron teams cannot consolidate players in trades, so the proposed trade is 100% illegal, unless Phoenix found a way to shed a ton of salary to get under the Second Apron.

The interesting angle is finding a way to integrate a third team. For example (this is purely to illustrate salary, not analyzing value), if Rudy Gobert could be broken up into Nikola Vučević to Phoenix and Lonzo Ball to Minnesota (removing the Royce O'Neal component), the trade would be legal.

Micic and Martin are unguaranteed, Suns can drop below 2nd apron with sime effort

[Mr Puddles]

KD and O'Neale for Gobert and Randle, #17
Nick Richards into TPMLE

Each team tries a different look, Wolves get a great scorer and a shooter + 3&D forward, Suns get a defensive anchor and a bully ball scoring PF, Suns also draft 2 players at #17 and #29 to get younger.

I love this for Phoenix, but I'm pretty sure with both teams being in the second apron it's not allowed.

Unless someone with better understanding of the apron rules can correct me.

I believe that the Suns would need to salary dump Grayson and the Wolves Donte in order to allow them to slip below the apron threshold for next year and allow salary stacking.

[Michaellam1987]

KD and O'Neale for Gobert and Randle, #17
Nick Richards into TPMLE

Each team tries a different look, Wolves get a great scorer and a shooter + 3&D forward, Suns get a defensive anchor and a bully ball scoring PF, Suns also draft 2 players at #17 and #29 to get younger.

Not sure why this needs a pick or O'Neale.

Is it even legal?

Should be, PHO are sending 65 + 5, Wolves sending 66.
O'Neale is matching salary, I think value is off w/o the pick I hesitated between 2 picks and one pick.

PHX has no use on Gobert. How about Randle + Reid (sign and trade) + Dillingham for KD?

[Mavrelous]

Not sure why this needs a pick or O'Neale.

Is it even legal?

Should be, PHO are sending 65 + 5, Wolves sending 66.
O'Neale is matching salary, I think value is off w/o the pick I hesitated between 2 picks and one pick.

PHX has no use on Gobert. How about Randle + Reid (sign and trade) + Dillingham for KD?

Suns can drop below 2nd Apron with some effort, below 1st Apron is hard...

[Mavrelous]

KD and O'Neale for Gobert and Randle, #17
Nick Richards into TPMLE

Each team tries a different look, Wolves get a great scorer and a shooter + 3&D forward, Suns get a defensive anchor and a bully ball scoring PF, Suns also draft 2 players at #17 and #29 to get younger.

I love this for Phoenix, but I'm pretty sure with both teams being in the second apron it's not allowed.

Unless someone with better understanding of the apron rules can correct me.

I believe that the Suns would need to salary dump Grayson and the Wolves Donte in order to allow them to slip below the apron threshold for next year and allow salary stacking.

Wolves are below 2nd Apron, Suns can waive Martun and Micic and they become very close to the Apron (they will be below but beed to fill spots, can trade Allen for depth pieces)

[Mr Puddles]

Not sure why this needs a pick or O'Neale.

Is it even legal?

Should be, PHO are sending 65 + 5, Wolves sending 66.
O'Neale is matching salary, I think value is off w/o the pick I hesitated between 2 picks and one pick.

PHX has no use on Gobert. How about Randle + Reid (sign and trade) + Dillingham for KD?

I don't agree with this at all. Gobert is a player who can single handedly transform a team's defense - and those are extremely rare. The Suns defense, and especially interior defense, was Seinfeld level comedic entertainment last year (atleast for non-Suns fans to witness).

[Mavrelous]

For example, Allen to Detroit for Fontechio, Sasser and 2nd rd pick, adds 3 players while dropping further in salary, Pistons replace THJ and Beasly with a sharp shooter who isn't a liability on defense.

[Mr Puddles]

KD and O'Neale for Gobert and Randle, #17
Nick Richards into TPMLE

Each team tries a different look, Wolves get a great scorer and a shooter + 3&D forward, Suns get a defensive anchor and a bully ball scoring PF, Suns also draft 2 players at #17 and #29 to get younger.

I love this for Phoenix, but I'm pretty sure with both teams being in the second apron it's not allowed.

Unless someone with better understanding of the apron rules can correct me.

I believe that the Suns would need to salary dump Grayson and the Wolves Donte in order to allow them to slip below the apron threshold for next year and allow salary stacking.

Wolves are below 2nd Apron, Suns can waive Martun and Micic and they become very close to the Apron (they will be below but beed to fill spots, can trade Allen for depth pieces)

Thanks, i think moving Allen shouldn't be too difficult. Detroit comes to mind as they could use his shooting and have capspace up the wazoo.

Beal
Booker
Dunn
Randle
Gobert

Bench:
Gillespie (an actual bright spot from last season)
#17
#29
Oso

Looks like a much more balanced team to me than last year.

[Mr Puddles]

For example, Allen to Detroit for Fontechio, Sasser and 2nd rd pick, adds 3 players while dropping further in salary, Pistons replace THJ and Beasly with a sharp shooter who isn't a liability on defense.

Lmao. I saw this post right after my previous reply also including Detroit as a trade destination.

I love this overall for phoenix, but personally think we're stealing value here (I'm much higher on Gobert than most though)

[Mavrelous]

For example, Allen to Detroit for Fontechio, Sasser and 2nd rd pick, adds 3 players while dropping further in salary, Pistons replace THJ and Beasly with a sharp shooter who isn't a liability on defense.

Lmao. I saw this post right after my previous reply also including Detroit as a trade destination.

I love this overall for phoenix, but personally think we're stealing value here (I'm much higher on Gobert than most though)

I don't think Suns are stealing value, I think you're too high on Gobert.
Wolves are coming off 2 WCF appearances, they are close but they were non-competitive on both series.
This move has some floor dropping risk, but also ceiling raising potential.
Suns need someone to stabilize their floor defensively, that's Gobert.

[Godaddycurse]

For example, Allen to Detroit for Fontechio, Sasser and 2nd rd pick, adds 3 players while dropping further in salary, Pistons replace THJ and Beasly with a sharp shooter who isn't a liability on defense.

Lmao. I saw this post right after my previous reply also including Detroit as a trade destination.

I love this overall for phoenix, but personally think we're stealing value here (I'm much higher on Gobert than most though)

Beal + Booker + Randle + Gobert + Dunn + Oso + dead money = 181M

2nd apron is 206M

If they take back fontecchio and sasser that leaves 14M for 6 roster spots. 17 + 29 is around 6-7M. That leaves 7M for last 4 spots...

Realistically they need to dump Allen out right instead of taking back salary

[Mavrelous]

For example, Allen to Detroit for Fontechio, Sasser and 2nd rd pick, adds 3 players while dropping further in salary, Pistons replace THJ and Beasly with a sharp shooter who isn't a liability on defense.

Lmao. I saw this post right after my previous reply also including Detroit as a trade destination.

I love this overall for phoenix, but personally think we're stealing value here (I'm much higher on Gobert than most though)

Beal + Booker + Randle + Gobert + Dunn + Oso + dead money = 181M

2nd apron is 206M

If they take back fontecchio and sasser that leaves 14M for 6 roster spots. 17 + 29 is around 6-7M. That leaves 7M for last 4 spots...

Realistically they need to dump Allen out right instead of taking back salary

Fontechio + #17 + 2nd to WAS TPE for #20

[ReggiesKnicks]

For example, Allen to Detroit for Fontechio, Sasser and 2nd rd pick, adds 3 players while dropping further in salary, Pistons replace THJ and Beasly with a sharp shooter who isn't a liability on defense.

Lmao. I saw this post right after my previous reply also including Detroit as a trade destination.

I love this overall for phoenix, but personally think we're stealing value here (I'm much higher on Gobert than most though)

I don't think Suns are stealing value, I think you're too high on Gobert.
Wolves are coming off 2 WCF appearances, they are close but they were non-competitive on both series.
This move has some floor dropping risk, but also ceiling raising potential.
Suns need someone to stabilize their floor defensively, that's Gobert.

Wasn't the Dallas series competitive?

Edit: yes it was

Minnesota had a lead heading into the 4th quarter in game 1. Dallas 3 point win.

Minnesota had a lead heading into the 4th quarter in game 2. Dallas 1 point win.

Minnesota and Dallas were tied heading into the 4th quarter of game 3. Dallas 9 point win.

Minnesota wins game 4.

Seems very competitive.

[Mavrelous]

Lmao. I saw this post right after my previous reply also including Detroit as a trade destination.

I love this overall for phoenix, but personally think we're stealing value here (I'm much higher on Gobert than most though)

I don't think Suns are stealing value, I think you're too high on Gobert.
Wolves are coming off 2 WCF appearances, they are close but they were non-competitive on both series.
This move has some floor dropping risk, but also ceiling raising potential.
Suns need someone to stabilize their floor defensively, that's Gobert.

Wasn't the Dallas series competitive?

Edit: yes it was

Minnesota had a lead heading into the 4th quarter in game 1. Dallas 3 point win.

Minnesota had a lead heading into the 4th quarter in game 2. Dallas 1 point win.

Minnesota and Dallas were tied heading into the 4th quarter of game 3. Dallas 9 point win.

Minnesota wins game 4.

Seems very competitive.

Box score watching yeah it was competitive, watching the games, it really wasn't, yes it was close the 1st 3 games, but on the floor Mavs got what they wanted in the P&R and you wouldn't mistake who was the more composed team and the team with the advantage, Mavs also overcame terrible shooting luck in game 1 that made the game look much close than it really was, early in game 3 and all of game 4, the game Wolves barely won, was when Mavs missed their defensive anchor in Lively.

Games 2 and 3 in the finals were very close, and within 5 points in the final 5 minutes, Mavs blew the Celtics out in game 4, anyone thinking this series was competitive would also be hopelessly confused.

I've had this argument multiple times on the GB, I really don't want to relitigate it, this is my very strong opinion, feel free to disagree, I don't think this Wolves team is a contender, and it's worth a shot to go for KD, especially with Gobert showing clear signs of decline.

[ReggiesKnicks]

I don't think Suns are stealing value, I think you're too high on Gobert.
Wolves are coming off 2 WCF appearances, they are close but they were non-competitive on both series.
This move has some floor dropping risk, but also ceiling raising potential.
Suns need someone to stabilize their floor defensively, that's Gobert.

Wasn't the Dallas series competitive?

Edit: yes it was

Minnesota had a lead heading into the 4th quarter in game 1. Dallas 3 point win.

Minnesota had a lead heading into the 4th quarter in game 2. Dallas 1 point win.

Minnesota and Dallas were tied heading into the 4th quarter of game 3. Dallas 9 point win.

Minnesota wins game 4.

Seems very competitive.

Box score watching yeah it was competitive, watching the games, it really wasn't, yes it was close the 1st 3 games, but on the floor Mavs got what they wanted in the P&R and you wouldn't mistake who was the more composed team and the team with the advantage, Mavs also overcame terrible shooting luck in game 1 that made the game look much close than it really was, early in game 3 and all of game 4, the game Wolves barely won, was when Mavs missed their defensive anchor in Lively.

You're just explaining this from a Mavs POV.

"Mavs missed their defensive anchor in lively" as if KAT didn't have a historically bad playoff series. If he makes his season average or even below season average, Minnesota easily wins games 1 and 2. Looks like NAW shot 18% from as well.

You're looking at this from the lens of a Mavs fan, which makes sense because you are a Mavs fan

[Mavrelous]

Wasn't the Dallas series competitive?

Edit: yes it was

Minnesota had a lead heading into the 4th quarter in game 1. Dallas 3 point win.

Minnesota had a lead heading into the 4th quarter in game 2. Dallas 1 point win.

Minnesota and Dallas were tied heading into the 4th quarter of game 3. Dallas 9 point win.

Minnesota wins game 4.

Seems very competitive.

Box score watching yeah it was competitive, watching the games, it really wasn't, yes it was close the 1st 3 games, but on the floor Mavs got what they wanted in the P&R and you wouldn't mistake who was the more composed team and the team with the advantage, Mavs also overcame terrible shooting luck in game 1 that made the game look much close than it really was, early in game 3 and all of game 4, the game Wolves barely won, was when Mavs missed their defensive anchor in Lively.

You're just explaining this from a Mavs POV.

"Mavs missed their defensive anchor in lively" as if KAT didn't have a historically bad playoff series. If he makes his season average or even below season average, Minnesota easily wins games 1 and 2. Looks like NAW shot 18% from as well.

You're looking at this from the lens of a Mavs fan, which makes sense because you are a Mavs fan

I'm really not, cherry picking single player stats is nice, Wolves shot 37% and Mavs shot 24%, Wolves were healthy, Mavs weren't, this isn't some team POV, these are very basic facts.