Trade Talk (Part 17): Early Offseason Planning

[Domejandro]

I would love to add a Shaun Livingston-type guard to our lineup. Who fits?!

The "so obvious it is boring" answer is Lonzo Ball. A trade framework that I have kicked around for a larger scale Kevin Durant trade is...

CHI: Rudy Gobert
OUT: Nikola Vučević and Lonzo Ball (maybe swap #12 for #17, but keeping picks out for simplicity)

Why for Chicago? Shift team towards a defensive identity and give Josh Giddey a lob threat.

MIN: Kevin Durant and Lonzo Ball
OUT: Rudy Gobert and Julius Randle (likely send draft capital to Phoenix)

Why for Minnesota? Clear long-term salary commitments and get an All-NBA player.

PHX: Julius Randle, Nikola Vučević, and draft compensation
OUT: Kevin Durant

Why for Phoenix? Get two offensive big men and draft compensation for Kevin Durant. This trade is legal despite the Second Apron limitations, unlike a lot of proposals.


Functionally, Lonzo Ball replaces a portion of NAW's minutes, with the idea that Minnesota has enough young depth to survive if he breaks down. Honestly not even sure if this is a good trade for Minnesota (would have to see follow-ups to address the Center problem), but it's a format.

[winforlose]

I would love to add a Shaun Livingston-type guard to our lineup. Who fits?!

The "so obvious it is boring" answer is Lonzo Ball. A trade framework that I have kicked around for a larger scale Kevin Durant trade is...

CHI: Rudy Gobert
OUT: Nikola Vučević and Lonzo Ball (maybe swap #12 for #17, but keeping picks out for simplicity)

Why for Chicago? Shift team towards a defensive identity and give Josh Giddey a lob threat.

MIN: Kevin Durant and Lonzo Ball
OUT: Rudy Gobert and Julius Randle (likely send draft capital to Phoenix)

Why for Minnesota? Clear long-term salary commitments and get an All-NBA player.

PHX: Julius Randle, Nikola Vučević, and draft compensation
OUT: Kevin Durant

Why for Phoenix? Get two offensive big men and draft compensation for Kevin Durant. This trade is legal despite the Second Apron limitations, unlike a lot of proposals.


Functionally, Lonzo Ball replaces a portion of NAW's minutes, with the idea that Minnesota has enough young depth to survive if he breaks down. Honestly not even sure if this is a good trade for Minnesota (would have to see follow-ups to address the Center problem), but it's a format.

If Lonzo ball wasn’t worse at offense than Ricky Rubio, and less injury reliable than Anthony Davis… I still wouldn’t want him. I don’t trust his defense.

[Mattya]

I feel like that would tank his value. He's terrible on ball - both creating for himself and others. His biggest strength is Catch and Shoot.

I don't know why that would tank his value. If he can't play point guard then other teams will see his increased production on pure numbers basis and want him as a shooting guard.

Because we’d be highlighting what he can’t do. And if he struggles next year because of it, teams will look less favorably on him.

Why if other teams already know he isn't a point guard and he just doesn't produce as a point guard then who cares as long as he shoots well.

[BlacJacMac]

I don't know why that would tank his value. If he can't play point guard then other teams will see his increased production on pure numbers basis and want him as a shooting guard.

Because we’d be highlighting what he can’t do. And if he struggles next year because of it, teams will look less favorably on him.

Why if other teams already know he isn't a point guard and he just doesn't produce as a point guard then who cares as long as he shoots well.

We’ve seen he doesn’t shoot as well when he’s on the ball.

[Klomp]

I would love to add a Shaun Livingston-type guard to our lineup. Who fits?!

The "so obvious it is boring" answer is Lonzo Ball. A trade framework that I have kicked around for a larger scale Kevin Durant trade is...

CHI: Rudy Gobert
OUT: Nikola Vučević and Lonzo Ball (maybe swap #12 for #17, but keeping picks out for simplicity)

Why for Chicago? Shift team towards a defensive identity and give Josh Giddey a lob threat.

MIN: Kevin Durant and Lonzo Ball
OUT: Rudy Gobert and Julius Randle (likely send draft capital to Phoenix)

Why for Minnesota? Clear long-term salary commitments and get an All-NBA player.

PHX: Julius Randle, Nikola Vučević, and draft compensation
OUT: Kevin Durant

Why for Phoenix? Get two offensive big men and draft compensation for Kevin Durant. This trade is legal despite the Second Apron limitations, unlike a lot of proposals.


Functionally, Lonzo Ball replaces a portion of NAW's minutes, with the idea that Minnesota has enough young depth to survive if he breaks down. Honestly not even sure if this is a good trade for Minnesota (would have to see follow-ups to address the Center problem), but it's a format.

This is really interesting!

[Klomp]

Honestly not even sure if this is a good trade for Minnesota (would have to see follow-ups to address the Center problem), but it's a format.

One thing I've been tossing around is using DiVincenzo to bring in a younger, more athletic center.

EDIT: Within the framework of the trade, Richards could possibly work.

[BlacJacMac]

I would love to add a Shaun Livingston-type guard to our lineup. Who fits?!

The "so obvious it is boring" answer is Lonzo Ball. A trade framework that I have kicked around for a larger scale Kevin Durant trade is...

CHI: Rudy Gobert
OUT: Nikola Vučević and Lonzo Ball (maybe swap #12 for #17, but keeping picks out for simplicity)

Why for Chicago? Shift team towards a defensive identity and give Josh Giddey a lob threat.

MIN: Kevin Durant and Lonzo Ball
OUT: Rudy Gobert and Julius Randle (likely send draft capital to Phoenix)

Why for Minnesota? Clear long-term salary commitments and get an All-NBA player.

PHX: Julius Randle, Nikola Vučević, and draft compensation
OUT: Kevin Durant

Why for Phoenix? Get two offensive big men and draft compensation for Kevin Durant. This trade is legal despite the Second Apron limitations, unlike a lot of proposals.


Functionally, Lonzo Ball replaces a portion of NAW's minutes, with the idea that Minnesota has enough young depth to survive if he breaks down. Honestly not even sure if this is a good trade for Minnesota (would have to see follow-ups to address the Center problem), but it's a format.

Im actually more interested in the Lonzo part of the deal than the Durant part…

[Guidus88]

I would love to add a Shaun Livingston-type guard to our lineup. Who fits?!

The "so obvious it is boring" answer is Lonzo Ball. A trade framework that I have kicked around for a larger scale Kevin Durant trade is...

CHI: Rudy Gobert
OUT: Nikola Vučević and Lonzo Ball (maybe swap #12 for #17, but keeping picks out for simplicity)

Why for Chicago? Shift team towards a defensive identity and give Josh Giddey a lob threat.

MIN: Kevin Durant and Lonzo Ball
OUT: Rudy Gobert and Julius Randle (likely send draft capital to Phoenix)

Why for Minnesota? Clear long-term salary commitments and get an All-NBA player.

PHX: Julius Randle, Nikola Vučević, and draft compensation
OUT: Kevin Durant

Why for Phoenix? Get two offensive big men and draft compensation for Kevin Durant. This trade is legal despite the Second Apron limitations, unlike a lot of proposals.


Functionally, Lonzo Ball replaces a portion of NAW's minutes, with the idea that Minnesota has enough young depth to survive if he breaks down. Honestly not even sure if this is a good trade for Minnesota (would have to see follow-ups to address the Center problem), but it's a format.

Best Durant trade so far!

[minimus]

I would love to add a Shaun Livingston-type guard to our lineup. Who fits?!

The "so obvious it is boring" answer is Lonzo Ball. A trade framework that I have kicked around for a larger scale Kevin Durant trade is...

CHI: Rudy Gobert
OUT: Nikola Vučević and Lonzo Ball (maybe swap #12 for #17, but keeping picks out for simplicity)

Why for Chicago? Shift team towards a defensive identity and give Josh Giddey a lob threat.

MIN: Kevin Durant and Lonzo Ball
OUT: Rudy Gobert and Julius Randle (likely send draft capital to Phoenix)

Why for Minnesota? Clear long-term salary commitments and get an All-NBA player.

PHX: Julius Randle, Nikola Vučević, and draft compensation
OUT: Kevin Durant

Why for Phoenix? Get two offensive big men and draft compensation for Kevin Durant. This trade is legal despite the Second Apron limitations, unlike a lot of proposals.


Functionally, Lonzo Ball replaces a portion of NAW's minutes, with the idea that Minnesota has enough young depth to survive if he breaks down. Honestly not even sure if this is a good trade for Minnesota (would have to see follow-ups to address the Center problem), but it's a format.

Best Durant trade so far!

Indeed!

[Domejandro]

I will say, looking around the NBA, it's hard to see what the strategy is in the decently likely event that Kevin Durant ends up in San Antonio. A lot of teams are paralyzed by their lack of cap space, and the blue chip names are out of reach (even if Minnesota had assets, some teams are stacked to the brim with prospects and picks).

Miscellaneous ideas involving Minnesota's bigs that don't really work.

Spoiler:

1. Julius Randle, Donte DiVincenzo, and ??? (#17?) for Paul George and #3
Philadelphia would likely decline, even with his awful contract.

2. Julius Randle + ??? for Draymond Green
Extremely funny to put Draymond and Rudy on the same team. Would stack Minnesota's roster with infinite defenders (three of the top ten in the NBA), but Golden State is never trading Draymond.

3. Rudy Gobert + ??? for Domantas Sabonis
I've seen fans of other teams float this, but I don't see Sacramento having interest, even if it would fix their roster construction.

4. Julius Randle for Jerami Grant and #12
...Is #12 worth eating that contract?

5.Rudy Gobert for Deandre Ayton and #12
Would cripple Minnesota's defense and might be bad timeline wise for Portland. Not convinced that Portland would have interest.

6. Julius Randle for Cameron Johnson
Brooklyn would ask for #17.

7. Rudy Gobert to Atlanta
All of the iterations make Minnesota suck.

8. Julius Randle + ??? for Zion Williamson
Probably zero reasonable pathway to getting New Orleans interested in this. Zion represented New Orleans at the NBA Draft Lottery and reports are that both sides are looking forward to next season.

9. Rudy Gobert for Jusuf Nurkić, Mark Williams, and ???
Hard to see any team being interested in trading for Mark Williams, following the botched trade. #4 is WAY too much value for Rudy Gobert, but Charlotte does have a myriad of future First Round Draft Picks which could be interesting. 2026 Worst of MEM/ORL/PHX/WAS, 2027 DAL (1-2 Protected), and 2027 MIA (1-14 Protected, 2028 Unprotected)

10. Julius Randle for Duncan Robinson, Kyle Anderson, and a future first?
Could swap out Duncan Robinson for Terry Rozier and play around with the contracts a bit. Not a great trade, but the draft pick compensation could help make it less gross.

Plenty more funky ideas, but all of them feel a bit off by a bit.

[Danimals]

I still can’t understand the desire to trade Rudy if it isn’t for a legit long term replacement. And no Nik Richards or Mark Williams do not count.

[jpatrick]

I still can’t understand the desire to trade Rudy if it isn’t for a legit long term replacement. And no Nik Richards or Mark Williams do not count.

I think the issue is costing 100m over the next three years, which is going to cause us to lose players, and he doesn’t not impact playoff basketball, which at our level is all that matters. And honestly, he’s never been a playoff performer, even in Utah, and he’s not going to get better as he hits mid-30s.

That said, he’s a great regular season player that lifts a team’s floor considerably. I’d hope to get a Kessler or Lively type back in a trade, which might not be possible. Someone that can protect the rim for 25 minutes a night but at a much lower cost.

[Mattya]

I still can’t understand the desire to trade Rudy if it isn’t for a legit long term replacement. And no Nik Richards or Mark Williams do not count.

Can you name a team that is going to trade a young long term replacement for Rudy for Rudy?

[Danimals]

I still can’t understand the desire to trade Rudy if it isn’t for a legit long term replacement. And no Nik Richards or Mark Williams do not count.

Can you name a team that is going to trade a young long term replacement for Rudy for Rudy?

No, and that is why I don’t have an interest in trading Gobert. I want to move on from Randle and upgrade at PG. Conley should come off the bench and we need a PG with similar talent as Randle.

[BlacJacMac]

DeMar DeRozan reveals a moment when he realized Lonzo Ball was special: "He could dominate from every aspect of the game"

"Zo wouldn't say a word, but he would do everything to the highest level," DeRozan said of Ball during the "Run Your Race" podcast. "Zo wouldn't say nothing, but he could dominate from every aspect of the game at the highest level. He was seeing s*** before things happen. We was playing the Knicks at one time, and Julius (Randle) was killing us. Zo was like, 'I got Julius.' I'm talking about chesting him up at the free throw line, stripping him."

"This is the ultimate competitor, bro. He just put it all together for us," added the former USC Trojan.

"He was too dynamic to be replaced. He was shooting the three at 40 percent. Defensively, the things he does and his passing. So, when we lost him, it was tough," DeRozan stated.

The Bulls were off to a strong start early in the 2021-22 season, posting a 27-13 record in the first 40 games. Then, after Ball hurt his knee, the house of cards collapsed as the team went 19-23 the rest of the way. As a result, they dropped to the sixth seed and were eliminated by the Milwaukee Bucks in the first round.

As far as his play style goes, the former Chino Hills High School standout perfectly fits around a team that had high-usage scorers. He does not dominate possessions, never getting in the way of bucket-getters like DeMar and Zach LaVine. Incidentally, both guys made the All-Star team in Zo's last healthy season, massively benefiting from his unselfish ways and defense.

https://www.basketballnetwork.net/latest-news/demar-derozan-reveals-a-moment-when-he-realized-lonzo-ball-was-special

[Klomp]

I still can’t understand the desire to trade Rudy if it isn’t for a legit long term replacement. And no Nik Richards or Mark Williams do not count.

Sometimes getting from Point A to Point B requires a layover stop somewhere. Roster building is not just direct flights to the championship.

[Klomp]

I still can’t understand the desire to trade Rudy if it isn’t for a legit long term replacement. And no Nik Richards or Mark Williams do not count.

I think the issue is costing 100m over the next three years, which is going to cause us to lose players, and he doesn’t not impact playoff basketball, which at our level is all that matters. And honestly, he’s never been a playoff performer, even in Utah, and he’s not going to get better as he hits mid-30s.

That said, he’s a great regular season player that lifts a team’s floor considerably. I’d hope to get a Kessler or Lively type back in a trade, which might not be possible. Someone that can protect the rim for 25 minutes a night but at a much lower cost.

Floor-raising has been hugely important for these first three years. I wonder if at this point, they might feel that the core guys have developed enough to a point where a floor-raiser isn't as necessary.

[Klomp]

To me, Rudy is Minnesota’s version of what Paul Millsap was for Connelly in Denver. He didn’t ultimately get them to the title, but he got them close.

[jpatrick]

To me, Rudy is Minnesota’s version of what Paul Millsap was for Connelly in Denver. He didn’t ultimately get them to the title, but he got them close.

I agree with this analogy, and see teams like Atlanta and Phoenix that have veteran cores and do not want to tank as possibilities for Rudy. Both need to greatly improve defense to get top four-six playoff seeds, which would appease their fan bases and owners, who want to win.

[Mattya]

I still can’t understand the desire to trade Rudy if it isn’t for a legit long term replacement. And no Nik Richards or Mark Williams do not count.

Can you name a team that is going to trade a young long term replacement for Rudy for Rudy?

No, and that is why I don’t have an interest in trading Gobert. I want to move on from Randle and upgrade at PG. Conley should come off the bench and we need a PG with similar talent as Randle.

Why not both, you act like the trade to bring in another center needs to be in a Gobert trade, which is nonsense.