2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8

[Indeed]

I've never said he's an elite player, I've always been consistent that I think his career is being a solid starting centre. If he was doing all the things you guys want him to do in college at 18 he'd be drafted top 3 and would be completely out of our range, any proven C with the skills you want will always be grabbed with a very high draft pick, like Anthony Davis (1st), Evan Mobley (3rd), Karl-Anthony Towns (1st), Chet Holmgren (2nd) as examples, we never draft high enough to get that type of player because we are unlucky and unwilling to really bottom out. We drafted Jakob Poeltl with the 9th pick in the draft in 2016, that was a pretty good pick. Taking Maluach at 9 in this draft is a similar type move, you can't assume there is a perennial All-Star available at 9 and even if there is you can't assume you will pick whoever it winds up being.

He is not even half of Lively. His block rate and assist rate are half of Lively, not even comparing to those with skills.
It is clearly a big risk with someone who can't jump (bottom 5 in leaping) and show he is not a good rebounder and show blocker at his standing reach and wingspan.

If his block rate is closer to 7% within the average of other C at his size, I would have him higher, but the fact that he is not with both stats and measurement, you got to see why on that.

While we're cherry picking stats, how about, oh, I don't know, points per game? Or rebounds? Maluach was better in both of those categories per minute played. True shooting percentage? Maluach is better and by a lot. Free throw percentage and FTA per minute? Maluach by a lot. And Maluach is even a bit younger than Lively at the same point in time, I would take Maluach over Lively no question, the only area Lively was really better was blocks which you are hyper focused on for some reason, it's often a category that doesn't translate well to the NBA because the defensive systems between college and the NBA are so different.

I'd even argue that shot blocking is becoming less and less important in the NBA these days, this past season there were literally only 3 players who blocked 2 or more shots per game, and only one truly great shot blocker in Victor Wembanyama (3.8 BPG) who is a unicorn only available with the 1st overall pick. To some degree shot blocking is a dying art based on how much teams play switch defence now, the best centre in the NBA has never even blocked 1 shot per game.

lol, shot blocking is becoming less and less important, yet, we are drafting a C.
Your argument is clearly for the sake of drafting Maluach. If you want a C who doesn't give you block, but good FTA and can play C, there are other options like Fleming, lol. Your argument on Maluach is weak.

[S.W.A.N]

So the premise of this guys valuation is that Maluach is African and since Masia covets
Africans then we should trade 9, 39 and Shead to move up two spots to select Maluach.

It's quite comical! I have seen better thought out reasoning from many posters on here.

Indeed, pretty bad assumption even taking Maluach at 9, he is in my do not watch list.
I guess there is no real taker for Maluach in the top 10, but these people are ranking him in the top 10, unsure if this is related to his agent trying to hype him.

I am not against KM if the front office decides he's the right pick at 9 then I will trust their judgment. I really wanted Suggs when they picked Scottie, and in hindsight that was a good pick. One thing about our front office is they know how to scout, so you can question their thought process but you can't get too upset. More often then not, they pick the right player

But this guys 44 minute reasoning or banter on what the Raps should/could do was downright stupid.

I had to stop watching. I've watched some of his content before but this was just lazy and dumb video.



I really like Maluach and would be happy with him at 9, but trading up for him is out to lunch. I'd be trading back if anything

[WuTang_CMB]

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[WuTang_CMB]

le doug'

There are so many things that Collin Murray-Boyles brings to the NBA draft that it’s impossible to ignore.
He’s an NCAA defensive star — can switch coverages, blow up screen-roll actions, gets his hands on passes — and any team looking for a young stopper to groom has to be enthralled with the 19-year-old South Carolina sophomore.
His size is impressive — six-foot-seven, 240 pounds — and there have already been comparisons to Golden State’s Draymond Green.
That’s of course unfair to put on a kid who won’t turn 20 years old until next month and hasn’t even taken part in a NBA practice — but it is the kind of comp he’s getting.
The issue is that Murray-Boyles looks like an interesting project, but as a three-and-D specialist without the three in his arsenal right now.



The native of South Carolina took only 39 three-pointers in 60 games over two university seasons and made only nine (23.1 per cent). That’s certainly not going to translate to the NBA game.
But three-point shooting is a teachable skill. What scouts are drawn to are his defensive skills, a competitive nature they see as top-rate and hands that might have been the quickest in NCAA basketball last season.
“A lot of things he does aren’t measured,” one Western Conference executive said at the draft combine in Chicago. “Looks like he just knows how to play.”


However, all the intriguing aspects of Murray-Boyles — particularly the defensive versatility, because it fits with what the Raptors are trying to develop — are offset by his current limitations. They might make him a dicey proposition in the ninth draft slot for the Raptors.
His shooting weaknesses, particularly from the three-point arc, mean he’s hardly going to be a court spacer on a roster overrun by veterans who work best closer to the basket.


At six-foot-seven, even with a seven-foot-one wingspan, that’s not overly big if he’s asked to be the primary defender on power forwards who might be three or four inches taller.
Ball-handling is another question and with the Raptors apparently married to a ball-movement offence predicated on everyone having multi-faceted skills, that could be an issue.


He might be a more interesting prospect now than Jonathan Mogbo was to the Raptors a year ago, but it’s hard to see him as an awful lot different — or better — than Toronto’s already invested in.
Still, the overall defensive skills — he’s said to have great instincts on that end, and can be the kind of disruptive presence around the ball — certainly make him someone to take a long look at.



That would be especially true if team president Masai Ujiri and general manager Bobby Webster get the chance to make a trade to ease a backcourt-heavy roster, consolidating a few players into one and creating room to add Murray-Boyles to the mix as a future piece.
According to mock draft lists put together by the experts who chart such things, Murray-Boyles is seen as right in the Raptors’ wheelhouse at No. 9 or a bit of a stretch there and destined to be a mid- to late first-round selection.


He met with the Raptors at the draft combine, but then again so did about two dozen others, so that doesn’t mean an awful lot other than Ujiri, Webster and player personnel Dan Tolzman just doing their due diligence.
But if Murray-Boyles can nail his individual workouts and show a modicum of promise as a shooter, he should definitely be in the conversation if the Raptors keep and take the No. 9 selection.




Our series on potential picks for the Raptors in the June draft.
The ship has sailed
Cooper Flagg
Dylan Harper
VJ Edgecombe
Could they fall?
Khaman Maluach
Tre Johnson
In the range
Derik Queen
Canadian content
Will Riley

[Rapsfan07]

People really think it makes sense to play Barnes and CMB together?

Are we in 2004?

To be fair, back in 2011 people were saying we shouldn't draft Kawhi because Derozan couldn't shoot and we already had James Johnson. He's not my top pick either but it wouldn't be a reach talent-wise.

Statistically that was still the right call. Kawhi had a 1/1,000,000 developmental trajectory and some insane physical tools to start with.

Kawhi was not supposed to be Kawhi.

[mtcan]

People really think it makes sense to play Barnes and CMB together?

Are we in 2004?

To be fair, back in 2011 people were saying we shouldn't draft Kawhi because Derozan couldn't shoot and we already had James Johnson. He's not my top pick either but it wouldn't be a reach talent-wise.

Statistically that was still the right call. Kawhi had a 1/1,000,000 developmental trajectory and some insane physical tools to start with.

Kawhi was not supposed to be Kawhi.

Kawhi isn't Kawhi without the Spurs organization and especially shooting guru, Chip Engelland. He perfect Kawhi's jump shot...just like he's gotten guys like Lu Dort, Aaron Wiggins and the rest of the OKC Thunder roster shooting 3s.

We can't count on a Kawhi-like trajectory because the conditions need to be perfect.

[Consequence]

I waffle so much on Essengue. Kinda hope he goes in front of 9 so that I don’t have to think about it when we are on the clock.

[Pointgod]

To be fair, back in 2011 people were saying we shouldn't draft Kawhi because Derozan couldn't shoot and we already had James Johnson. He's not my top pick either but it wouldn't be a reach talent-wise.

Statistically that was still the right call. Kawhi had a 1/1,000,000 developmental trajectory and some insane physical tools to start with.

Kawhi was not supposed to be Kawhi.

Kawhi isn't Kawhi without the Spurs organization and especially shooting guru, Chip Engelland. He perfect Kawhi's jump shot...just like he's gotten guys like Lu Dort, Aaron Wiggins and the rest of the OKC Thunder roster shooting 3s.

We can't count on a Kawhi-like trajectory because the conditions need to be perfect.

Yeah I hate these Kawhi comparisons because he’s a one of one. We’ve seen lots of Stanley Johnsons and Jarrett Culvers who were athletic, had length but couldn’t put it together. Similar to how Jokic, Draymond Green and even guys like Brunson being one of ones.

Kawhi doesn’t become Kawhi if he’s not drafted to a team that could afford to bring him along slowly and learn from the greatest basketball players and coach that have been in the NBA.

[arbsn]

Can we just draft a prolific scorer for once?

I get defense wins at the end of the day but you need to score buckets in basketball

[JCP11]

I waffle so much on Essengue. Kinda hope he goes in front of 9 so that I don’t have to think about it when we are on the clock.

I would be shocked if that happens. I see the potential defensively but I just don't see it offensively. People complain about CMBs shot well he's not that much better. However I think will be a very good role player eventually if the shot gets better but he will never be an offensive option imo.

[Pointgod]

Can we just draft a prolific scorer for once?

I get defense wins at the end of the day but you need to score buckets in basketball

Trade up for Tre Johnson?

[RoteSchroder]

I waffle so much on Essengue. Kinda hope he goes in front of 9 so that I don’t have to think about it when we are on the clock.

I would be shocked if that happens. I see the potential defensively but I just don't see it offensively. People complain about CMBs shot well he's not that much better. However I think will be a very good role player eventually if the shot gets better but he will never be an offensive option imo.

Essengue looks smoother and fluid to me in multiple areas. I like his developmental potential more, especially since he’s been improving in real time. CMB’s shot looks a bit hard to fix and has a less natural motion off the dribble

If Kon’s available, he might be the right pick in terms of being a safer pick and still having some offensive upside. His athleticism isn’t that great, but I’m not sure if it would hamper his drive attempts that much..I see it like a Doncic-like slashing style.

[JCP11]

I waffle so much on Essengue. Kinda hope he goes in front of 9 so that I don’t have to think about it when we are on the clock.

I would be shocked if that happens. I see the potential defensively but I just don't see it offensively. People complain about CMBs shot well he's not that much better. However I think will be a very good role player eventually if the shot gets better but he will never be an offensive option imo.

Essengue looks smoother and fluid to me in multiple areas. I like his developmental potential more, especially since he’s been improving in real time. CMB’s shot looks a bit hard to fix and has a less natural motion off the dribble

If Kon’s available, he might be the right pick in terms of being a safer pick and still having some offensive upside. His athleticism isn’t that great, but I’m not sure if it would hamper his drive attempts that much..I see it like a Doncic-like slashing style.

Essengue is just a crazy wild card. Can he develop some shot creation? Develop a better handle and slash to the rim in the half court? He's still very young and still growing which is scary. I'm not a believer in him ever becoming a offensive option but if his shot gets better he will be one hell of a role player.

[BoyzNTheHood]

I would be shocked if that happens. I see the potential defensively but I just don't see it offensively. People complain about CMBs shot well he's not that much better. However I think will be a very good role player eventually if the shot gets better but he will never be an offensive option imo.

Essengue looks smoother and fluid to me in multiple areas. I like his developmental potential more, especially since he’s been improving in real time. CMB’s shot looks a bit hard to fix and has a less natural motion off the dribble

If Kon’s available, he might be the right pick in terms of being a safer pick and still having some offensive upside. His athleticism isn’t that great, but I’m not sure if it would hamper his drive attempts that much..I see it like a Doncic-like slashing style.

Essengue is just a crazy wild card. Can he develop some shot creation? Develop a better handle and slash to the rim in the half court? He's still very young and still growing which is scary. I'm not a believer in him ever becoming a offensive option but if his shot gets better he will be one hell of a role player.

Unless he gets on the Gianni’s diet plan I’m not sure what to expect of him. He seems like he’s going to be one of those clumsy looking, lanky dudes who get calls because he gets pushed around so easily.

Maybe another Boucher type?

[Tripod]

Man this draft could go so many ways for us.

Go with 3+D PG..Jase
Go with 3+D SG...Coward
Go with positional need and size...Maluach
Go with 3+D with more size...Carter/Fleming

Personally that's who I think they look to assuming the top 8 go as expected.

Others who are good defensively like CMB, there are other good defensive guys who shoot the ball way better. Let's get guys who actually can shoot the ball and are not sieves on defense.

[DreamTeam09]

I hope we promised 9 to Maluach and his agent steers him to #9 and away from other teams in the 6-8 range.

A kid who touched a ball 5yrs ago and within that span, played in the Olympics and started for Duke seems like an upward trajectory to me.

[DreamTeam09]

Essengue looks smoother and fluid to me in multiple areas. I like his developmental potential more, especially since he’s been improving in real time. CMB’s shot looks a bit hard to fix and has a less natural motion off the dribble

If Kon’s available, he might be the right pick in terms of being a safer pick and still having some offensive upside. His athleticism isn’t that great, but I’m not sure if it would hamper his drive attempts that much..I see it like a Doncic-like slashing style.

Essengue is just a crazy wild card. Can he develop some shot creation? Develop a better handle and slash to the rim in the half court? He's still very young and still growing which is scary. I'm not a believer in him ever becoming a offensive option but if his shot gets better he will be one hell of a role player.

Unless he gets on the Gianni’s diet plan I’m not sure what to expect of him. He seems like he’s going to be one of those clumsy looking, lanky dudes who get calls because he gets pushed around so easily.

Maybe another Boucher type?

I don't see the clumsiness, I think he dribbles better than OG and OG was clumsy. You're right tho, if he does gain weight in a transformational way he becomes a totally different player.
Right now he's a good slasher active around the rim on the glass and is good in transition with a non-broken 3. I do some appeal

[Rapsfan07]

Can we just draft a prolific scorer for once?

I get defense wins at the end of the day but you need to score buckets in basketball

Those players are usually gone long before #9.

Good thing is we have Barnes, Ingram, Quickley and Barrett - that's plenty hands to score the ball.

I'm hoping that if we can snag Fleming and/or Coward plus the evolution of Walter and Shead should be enough to prevent long dry stretches but Darko can also stagger at least one or two of our main 4 with the bench.

[Dalek]

Can we just draft a prolific scorer for once?

I get defense wins at the end of the day but you need to score buckets in basketball

The ones who stand out like, Harper, Bailey, Tre Johnson and Kon Knippel may be out of our range. To me, the next best scorer in the draft is Walter Clayton Jr.

6'2" barefoot, 199 lbs, 6'4" wingspan, 8'1 1/2" standing reach and hand length was 8.25 inches. Tested well in agility drills and has a 37 vertical jump.

He has the resume:
312 made threes on 39% for his college career more than Dame Lillard
83rd percentile off-the-dribble
Spot-Up: 0.910 PPP – 92nd percentile, Off Screens: 1.286 PPP, Catch & Shoot: 1.171 PPP – 91st percentile
Basically willed his team to a title within the last minutes of a game.

People talk about Jase Richardson, but WCJ has got better size and shooting volume over him.

Some might say he is a bigger VanVleet but even Fred was never this clutch a scorer. You want a similar player, probably Jalen Brunson is the cloest comp and despite his less than perfect defense he has taken NY pretty far.

[Dalek]

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