tsherkin wrote:Wannabe MEP wrote:I do think if you have an OG-Siakam-Turner frontcourt:
- *good* guards start to look *great*
- talent would want to join
I also think quality guards are easier to come by because there are thousands of skilled athletic 6-3 players for every one 6-10 guy.
Nah, I don't think any of that is true, to be honest. If the number of available guards of value was meaningful, we'd have one already. But we need a legit lead perimeter player, and those do not grow on trees. And he doesn't need to be 6'3, we just need someone who can create rim pressure with high-frequency drives to the basket, coupled to quality playmaking and competent shooting. That isn't a trivial ask.
And no one wanting to join us is going to matter. We're not going to sign that kind of player for a vet min or some other exception or whatever.
I'm gonna give a long answer to this one. Apologies. I was turning this one over a bit.
Post Kawhi, I believed strongly in Siakam + OG. I've had mixed feeling about basically everybody else, including Scottie. But I believed that there was a way to build a contender around those two, but of course I always understood that it would be very difficult to do. You'd need good scoring/initiating from the guard(s), and a solid stretch 5.
Exhibit A: PacersA few years ago, the Pacers had Sabonis, Turner, and not much else of note. They gave those two a shot for a few years, but it became clear that they weren't an ideal fit beside each other. The team was mid at best.
So tear it down, sell both, become terrible, and start over through the draft, right???
No. They sold Sabonis and continued to build around Turner. They didn't have a "superstar", but they had one really solid piece who could contribute significantly on both defense and offense. And even though he wasn't super young any more -- and misses games every year with injuries -- they kept trying to add quality pieces around him.
They were willing to give up assets to build something. Got Haliburton and Siakam through trades, dealing Sabonis and multiple draft picks, and it's been a resounding success. In my opinion, this is worth it even if they go no further -- they put themselves in position to have a chance, and so far have made two good playoff runs.
Exhibit B: CelticsHad Tatum and Brown and a good team. But knew they needed specific pieces to win a championship, and were willing to part with multiple draft picks and other core-ish players to build a better team around those two.
- Wanted a savvy guard who could defend and shoot threes. Found two: Jrue Holiday and Derrick White. Had to pay for them.
- Wanted a savvy stretch-5 who could defend. Found two: Al Horford and Kristaps Porzingis. Had to pay for them.
Got a title. Tatum injury is a massive blow, but they certainly could be dangerous again in the future.
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To build around OG + Siakam we needed a solid stretch-5 and more dynamic offensive spark from the guards than we had for the last few years.
I think Scottie + a couple draft picks could have netted Myles Turner and a key guard. Essentially what Indiana did: they got Siakam and Hali. We could have gotten Turner and literally Hali, or another dynamic guard, instead.
Since Kawhi left, all of the following guards have 1) gotten either all-NBA or all-star selections, and 2) have switched teams -- mostly by trade:
Hali
SGA
Mitchell
Brunson
Harden
Luka
Butler
Fox
Lillard
CP3
Beal
Kyrie
Westbrook
Simmons
Wiggins
LaVine
Conley
Kemba
DeRozan
Jrue
Dejounte
^ Some of these definitely wouldn't have been possible or made sense for the Raptors...but
none of them?? And this leaves out any not-quite-all-star that's very good at basketball that may also have switched teams -- Derrick White comes to mind. And then of course there was always the option of...keeping Norm.