2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8

[Psubs]

I waffle so much on Essengue. Kinda hope he goes in front of 9 so that I don’t have to think about it when we are on the clock.

Just think Bilal. Don't use #9 or #13 on him.

[Buff]

lol, shot blocking is becoming less and less important, yet, we are drafting a C.
Your argument is clearly for the sake of drafting Maluach. If you want a C who doesn't give you block, but good FTA and can play C, there are other options like Fleming, lol. Your argument on Maluach is weak.

You know who used to block a bunch of shots? Marc Gasol. The case for Maluach is simple:

- Unbeatable physical traits already on strong frame/
- Pedigree (A mega stacked Duke team CHOOSE him to anchor a GREAT defense).
- Defensive intelligence: According to the scouting reports (don shoot the messenger) Duke had him play a crap ton of different coverages (please do not say he is a drop big) and he played them flawlessly.
- A skill where he can probably be top 5 in the league right off the bat: rim running and finishing.
- Hits free throws, will not be hack-le-malauach, Top 10 freshman offensive rebounder in like a decade.

That guy, who is only 18 still, can one day anchor a championship team almost without adding anything else (yeah it'd be great if he could pass). Thats a gamble I will take at 9 eyes closed.

[WuTang_CMB]

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[RoteSchroder]

lol, shot blocking is becoming less and less important, yet, we are drafting a C.
Your argument is clearly for the sake of drafting Maluach. If you want a C who doesn't give you block, but good FTA and can play C, there are other options like Fleming, lol. Your argument on Maluach is weak.

You know who used to block a bunch of shots? Marc Gasol. The case for Maluach is simple:

- Unbeatable physical traits already on strong frame/
- Pedigree (A mega stacked Duke team CHOOSE him to anchor a GREAT defense).
- Defensive intelligence: According to the scouting reports (don shoot the messenger) Duke had him play a crap ton of different coverages (please do not say he is a drop big) and he played them flawlessly.
- A skill where he can probably be top 5 in the league right off the bat: rim running and finishing.
- Hits free throws, will not be hack-le-malauach, Top 10 freshman offensive rebounder in like a decade.

That guy, who is only 18 still, can one day anchor a championship team almost without adding anything else (yeah it'd be great if he could pass). Thats a gamble I will take at 9 eyes closed.

Not that I’m against Maluach (I have him at around tier 2 or 3 for a #9 selection), but to your points:

- His physical traits in terms of moving and jumping got beaten by pretty much every big in the combine. At the same time, I’m not sure if speed/agility/hops matters as much since: 1) his length will cover for some of it, 2) he seems to have a good stance on the perimeter, although I wouldn’t want him out there guarding too close to the 3 point line anyways, 3) his reaction time, staying with his opponent, and recovery ability all seem ok.

- Was he the anchor or was Flagg? What if Maluach was just defensive help and not the main anchor or driving force (given there was minimal statistical difference with him on/off the court, which could also be due to a good defensive back-up)

- I think he was said to have a weak/mediocre feel for the game. Going through different coverages on D doesn’t make him have high defensive IQ

- The DeAndre Jordan offense of rim running is fine, but you also need to rely on your ball-handler there. I don’t think we’d be drafting him for offense anyways.

- The FT% and offensive rebs are fine. Like I said, I don’t think the O is the question. His offense is like bottom 2nd round level. The main question is how good his defense is, which dictates his draftability at 9.

[Raptaurus]

I thought we already had a bonafide center in the midst of his prime in Poetl? We gave up significant draft capital for this guy not too long ago, which stunted our ability to rebuild through the draft. And now we are ready to compete and we wanna use our only lottery pick in the past 5 years on his potential replacement? Just the year prior to the Poetl trade, we used our “first round pick” to draft another center project in Koloko.

Thats a lot of draft resources being spent over the years on acquiring centers. I can understand the logic of drafting Maluach if he was a legit 2-way floor spacing center but thats definitely not him.

[Buff]

Not that I’m against Maluach (I have him at around tier 2 or 3 for a #9 selection), but to your points:

- His physical traits in terms of moving and jumping got beaten by pretty much every big in the combine. At the same time, I’m not sure if speed/agility/hops matters as much since: 1) his length will cover for some of it, 2) he seems to have a good stance on the perimeter, although I wouldn’t want him out there guarding too close to the 3 point line anyways, 3) his reaction time, staying with his opponent, and recovery ability all seem ok.

That is a point against him. But with that frame if he had good lateral numbers he would not get to 9. Still, Imma call it a draw because his good stuff is off the charts.

- Was he the anchor or was Flagg? What if Maluach was just defensive help and not the main anchor or driving force (given there was minimal statistical difference with him on/off the court, which could also be due to a good defensive back-up)

Semantics, I think. What we need to be looking at is "How good was he protecting the rim", which is the skill he is getting drafted for. Let me address the on/off issue: I believe the promising numbers are FG% and Attempts at the rim on/off. Apparently bot numbers are great (like a 12% swing in FG% at the rim when on). Which means, yeah the defense was the same, it was a great defensive team regardless of KM. But, people were not getting in the pain when he was there which is the main thing for his role.

- I think he was said to have a weak/mediocre feel for the game.

I don't see it. In particular, the dunks off the pick and roll are not trivial at all, takes timing, etc... It'd be great to see the assists numbers for both Flagg and Kon. Cause those boys feasted with Malauach... You have to have feel for the game, being tall is not enough.

Going through different coverages on D doesn’t make him have high defensive IQ

Disagree, coverages is one of the most IQ thing in basketball. Bunch of people play drop not only because of physical limitations. I bring Gasol again, he was... not very athetic. Yet his IQ made him the best. This is where (completely in my opinion, ofc) is his real upside.

- The DeAndre Jordan offense of rim running is fine, but you also need to rely on your ball-handler there. I don’t think we’d be drafting him for offense anyways.

Absolutely, but he does have a world class skill. I trust *at least* Scottie, BI and Quick to be able to find him. Cause his radius is YUGE.
My point is that, for what you are drafting him for, that's enough offense for me. And FT of course, if not unplayable.

- The FT% and offensive rebs are fine. Like I said, I don’t think the O is the question. His offense is like bottom 2nd round level. The main question is how good his defense is, which dictates his draftability at 9.

Yep, that is where we have to project and it is what it is. Who do you want?

[JCP11]

Essengue looks smoother and fluid to me in multiple areas. I like his developmental potential more, especially since he’s been improving in real time. CMB’s shot looks a bit hard to fix and has a less natural motion off the dribble

If Kon’s available, he might be the right pick in terms of being a safer pick and still having some offensive upside. His athleticism isn’t that great, but I’m not sure if it would hamper his drive attempts that much..I see it like a Doncic-like slashing style.

Essengue is just a crazy wild card. Can he develop some shot creation? Develop a better handle and slash to the rim in the half court? He's still very young and still growing which is scary. I'm not a believer in him ever becoming a offensive option but if his shot gets better he will be one hell of a role player.

Unless he gets on the Gianni’s diet plan I’m not sure what to expect of him. He seems like he’s going to be one of those clumsy looking, lanky dudes who get calls because he gets pushed around so easily.

Maybe another Boucher type?

Floor would be Boucher, ceiling would be Jerami Grant.

[nivisi9]

You guys are still crazy with the Cedric Coward hype lol. He's going to be available in the 20s. If we really want him, we can just trade back into the back half of the first round.

Interesting that Givony now has Noa Essengue at #9 on his big board. I guess NBA front offices must really like him. He looks like a Chris Boucher energy forward to me but he's still so young so I get the intrigue. Demin and Carter Bryant seem to be holding their ground with NBA scouts. The latter seems like a much more likely target than Coward if we want to go with a 3+D guy @ 9. I still like Jak or Demin for us.

Noa feels like a tweener to me. He is a skinny 6'8/6'9 who want to play more as a wing rather than a frontcourt player. He has to really figure out his handle and develop more skill because he is almost only scoring on cuts and a couple catch and shoot jumpers.

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He has some good moments here scoring, but some wild misses, bad rotations, and lost balls. He reminds me a bit of Jalen (not Jaden) McDaniels.

There is something about his game that reminds me of Scottie. The way he moves & he has some of the same limitations.

Taller, skinnier Scotty.

we're a way better team long term with 2 Scotties, despite limitations.
I actually like that comparison.

Especially in terms of potential interior scoring/ FT merchant, and effecting the game across the board

and Scottie isn't even in final form yet.

[billy_hoyle]

I thought we already had a bonafide center in the midst of his prime in Poetl? We gave up significant draft capital for this guy not too long ago, which stunted our ability to rebuild through the draft. And now we are ready to compete and we wanna use our only lottery pick in the past 5 years on his potential replacement? Just the year prior to the Poetl trade, we used our “first round pick” to draft another center project in Koloko.

Thats a lot of draft resources being spent over the years on acquiring centers. I can understand the logic of drafting Maluach if he was a legit 2-way floor spacing center but thats definitely not him.

The koloko pick turned into an injury lemon. That's a punt.

We traded a top 10 pick for Poeltl. Is he not worth that pick? He was selected 9th. He's a starting caliber 7ft, with some strong skills and some areas of obvious weakness (perimeter shooting, free throws, offensive physicallity in the post).

There are 5 positions on the floor. That's 48 mins of playing time per position. We only have 1 viable starting caliber center (Poeltl).

Our best players are:
Scottie Barnes - uses up ~70% of PF playing time.
Ingram - uses up ~66% of SF playing time.
RJ - uses ~66% of SG playing time
IQ - uses ~60% of PG playing time
Poeltl - uses ~60% of C playing time.

We have Shead to back up IQ.
We have Ochai, Dick, Walter to back up SG and play smaller at the SF position.

We have Mogbo for PF.

We have no one to play backup 5 (40% of floor time unaccounted for). That's even worse when you get an Injury.

Our positional needs are:

1.a. C - Maluach?
1.b. C/PF - Asa Newell, Queen, Flemming
2. PG (or legitimate combo guard) - Fears, Jase, Jak
3. Big wing - Bryant, Noa

[nivisi9]

Essengue is just a crazy wild card. Can he develop some shot creation? Develop a better handle and slash to the rim in the half court? He's still very young and still growing which is scary. I'm not a believer in him ever becoming a offensive option but if his shot gets better he will be one hell of a role player.

Unless he gets on the Gianni’s diet plan I’m not sure what to expect of him. He seems like he’s going to be one of those clumsy looking, lanky dudes who get calls because he gets pushed around so easily.

Maybe another Boucher type?

Floor would be Boucher, ceiling would be Jerami Grant.

His ceiling is much higher then Jarami Grant.

It's being underrated how insane his numbers, efficiency, and analytics are across the board at 18 yrs old in a competitive pro league. He's relentlessly impactful.

There is alot of skill development as well.

His ceiling is like a more skilled baby Giannis especially if he fills out physically.

In 5 yrs of NBA development and body conditioning he'll be 23 and could be a complete animal and havoc for opposing teams.

The rawness and abit awkwardness to his game is exactly the type concerns that had Giannis going 15th instead of 1#.

[Psubs]

I'd take Bogoljub Markovic over Essengue.

Based on Nikola Jovic developing, I see Markovic as a taller Jovic.

[Syd-TK3]

Imo Cooper and Harper are guranteed stars
Ace despite how high I am on him is unlikely cause Philly and Charlotte are terrible landing spots
Fears if he goes to Wizards or Brooklyn I see it
After that the 9-15 range usually has one sleeper that ends up being a top 5 talent in the draft

[Basketball_Jones]

I thought we already had a bonafide center in the midst of his prime in Poetl? We gave up significant draft capital for this guy not too long ago, which stunted our ability to rebuild through the draft. And now we are ready to compete and we wanna use our only lottery pick in the past 5 years on his potential replacement? Just the year prior to the Poetl trade, we used our “first round pick” to draft another center project in Koloko.

Thats a lot of draft resources being spent over the years on acquiring centers. I can understand the logic of drafting Maluach if he was a legit 2-way floor spacing center but thats definitely not him.

Yak will be 30 next season I think? Got a couple of really good years left and by the time Mal is 21-22 he’d be perfect to take over. It’s a pick that helps us a bit now and a lot in the future.

[JCP11]

Unless he gets on the Gianni’s diet plan I’m not sure what to expect of him. He seems like he’s going to be one of those clumsy looking, lanky dudes who get calls because he gets pushed around so easily.

Maybe another Boucher type?

Floor would be Boucher, ceiling would be Jerami Grant.

His ceiling is much higher then Jarami Grant.

It's being underrated how insane his numbers, efficiency, and analytics are across the board at 18 yrs old in a competitive pro league. He's relentlessly impactful.

There is alot of skill development as well.

His ceiling is like a more skilled baby Giannis especially if he fills out physically.

In 5 yrs of NBA development and body conditioning he'll be 23 and could be a complete animal and havoc for opposing teams.

The rawness and abit awkwardness to his game is exactly the type concerns that had Giannis going 15th instead of 1#.

That's what is hard to project, he needs to grow into his body and fill out. I don't think I see Giannis type growth but anything is possible. If you're banking on that than draft him at 9.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I have Flagg#1, Harper #2, CMB#3, Edgecombe#4.

I think CMB will be a better rookie than Harper, but Harper has a better path to being a star as his path to being elite is a lot easier. So CMB a better overall player more often than not compared to Harper, but Harper's tail end positives are more frequent than CMB's so he is on the same tier as CMB, but ahead.

VJ also has a good floor and a very high ceiling with his athleticism, but he's clearly behind those 2 as he doesn't have much self creation (rim finishing is too poor currently)

For #5 I don't have a clue right now, too many warts and bust potential for nearly all of them and I'd have to a deeper dive than I want to for having any confidence in my projection.If I were paid for it, would be a different story.

One thing I find incredibly entertaining is Raptors fans aversion to CMB. I'm semi confident he will be the pick and look forward to the fan meltdown.

I actually think there is zero chance Masai is drafting CMB with his job on the line here. He's already tipped they want a niche fit with Scottie in the draft. I think it's either a guard or 3&D.

Haven't seen you post in a while, but wondering what your top 5 or 10 big board is?

Also, who are your thoughts of who they would pick?

I've got Flagg, Harper, CMB, Johnson, Edgecombe as a top 5. If Sorber didn't have a foot injury I'd put him top 5 over Edgecombe.

As for who the Raptors will take, I think it will be literally someone that can shoot with some size, or a ballhandling guard they can throw into a bench mob unit next to Shead.

[Tripod]

I thought we already had a bonafide center in the midst of his prime in Poetl? We gave up significant draft capital for this guy not too long ago, which stunted our ability to rebuild through the draft. And now we are ready to compete and we wanna use our only lottery pick in the past 5 years on his potential replacement? Just the year prior to the Poetl trade, we used our “first round pick” to draft another center project in Koloko.

Thats a lot of draft resources being spent over the years on acquiring centers. I can understand the logic of drafting Maluach if he was a legit 2-way floor spacing center but thats definitely not him.

Yak will be 30 next season I think? Got a couple of really good years left and by the time Mal is 21-22 he’d be perfect to take over. It’s a pick that helps us a bit now and a lot in the future.

Yeah if you draft Maluach, you still re-sign Yak.

Him and Chomche learning from Yak for 3/4 years will help them a bunch(except shooting...lol). And then you hopefully have a natural turnover as they improve.

Essentially you could lock up the C depth for the next decade in drafting him.

Still not convinced they draft him.

[tanuki1031]

It's pretty funny seeing so any people project Coward to be Kawhi when this is a lot closer to being a Dion Waiters situation with the pre-draft hype and analytics.

[Yallbecrazy]

I actually think there is zero chance Masai is drafting CMB with his job on the line here. He's already tipped they want a niche fit with Scottie in the draft. I think it's either a guard or 3&D.

Haven't seen you post in a while, but wondering what your top 5 or 10 big board is?

Also, who are your thoughts of who they would pick?

I've got Flagg, Harper, CMB, Johnson, Edgecombe as a top 5. If Sorber didn't have a foot injury I'd put him top 5 over Edgecombe.

As for who the Raptors will take, I think it will be literally someone that can shoot with some size, or a ballhandling guard they can throw into a bench mob unit next to Shead.

You have CMB #3 as well, but don't think Masai would pick BPA if he had him rated well above the other guys available @ #9?

[UnbelievablyRAW]

Kon/Coward/Carter

Then trade Gradey or Ochai/39 for 14 and grab Sorber. Kon and Sorber as our pickups would be a homerun for me

[JCP11]

It's pretty funny seeing so any people project Coward to be Kawhi when this is a lot closer to being a Dion Waiters situation with the pre-draft hype and analytics.

Not even close to be the same player, style and position as Waiters... people say Kawhi because of the measurables, the physicality and he has the mid range already. Dion waiters can only dream to chase down block dudes in transition or block dunkers in full swing. He has the IQ and the mentality to get there. His ceiling will be determined by the development of his handle and where he lands.