Official 2025 Offseason Thread

[Idiosyncratic]

I don't really disagree with pepe's takes on Poole or the other Poole skeptics at all. My take is just that there is a decent chance they are going to acquire a flawed option anyway and his contract ends in two years which is appealing to me as opposed to re-upping someone for 3-4 years.

I hope they check in on the higher end options this offseason, but if it comes down to the flawed options, I can probably live with Poole.

[VFX]

The whole point of making a trade is to obtain a positive asset. What you just described is called a lateral move.

You see his scoring and 3pt shot and think we could use that, doesn’t cost us a ton (will deplete us of assets which can be used a filler etc) and keep most of our core. I get it but you’re taking about a player who’s contributed to wins in a small body of work. Everything else is mediocre less than satisfactory results. He’s the shooting version of RJ Hampton. Wows you with his outside shot, long distance pull ups (like RJ’s athleticism) but everything else is just like damn tf was that?

We would be getting him hoping we make him better not him making us better.

We need someone we know makes us better. Our offensive problems which have been well discussed a million times over aren’t just shooting and spacing. Paolo/Franz needs someone who can help them as well with the playmaking. Setting the tone. Setting the table. Calling the right plays see the floor,, the pace, the game in a way that Poole can’t fathom.

Poole as a backup at half the cost he’s at now, with our team already set, great. Bring him in and let him mesh but to bring him right now at his cost with our offensive problems, he’ll just inflame it.

I don’t disagree with a lot of this.

The choice Orlando has right now is one of three options. Two are real options:

Option 1. Spend draft picks + players for an upgrade in the back court (Simons, Sexton, Monk, and a reach in Reaves or C.White).

This option is appealing because these players address needs and lands a positive asset. However, moving draft picks limits other moves Orlando can make. They aren’t 1 total move or player away from completing moves this offseason. Thats because Weltman didn’t make moves for 4 seasons. This option also makes it more difficult to address other needs on the roster because you are limiting your asset pool to acquire said players. This becomes easier spent on the lesser talent. Sexton probably lands in option 1.5 - the others not so much. The other issue is that you have to pay these guys after you acquire them. The money is going up, not down, for most of them.

Option 2. Move pieces for a lateral trade that consolidates assets while keeping flexibility for other roster decisions. This is like the Poole deal.

This isn’t appealing at face value because everyone wants big name players that have a draw. Poole isn’t as appealing as the other names because of his contract. What makes this deal appealing is that Weltman can use all the other assets at his disposal to upgrade the rest of the roster. Cole Anthony, KCP, Jon Isaac, and Goga are not positive assets that net you upgrades across the rest of the roster. Keeping 16 + 25 gives Orlando either two rookie scale contributors as insurance to move these players OR fodder to upgrade other spots. Orlando can also add a player like NAW using the MLE. Pooles money is going down, not up, if his deal is renegotiated.

Option 3: Do nothing

Yeah...theoretically (you wouldn't but)...you could get Poole for just guys and still get Simons, Sexton, etc with other assets. I'd love to address our main issue with Poole and still have all of our REAL trade assets...throwing picks and lesser bodies could give us a better starting C, a better bench AND, possibly still have a high-upside rotaion swing pick like Coward, Wolf, Clayton or Clifford. I understand that Poole is a risk, perhaps riskier than others - but I can pick apart ANY of them other than Derrick White.

Garland is soft and tiny and the price would be Suggs and more...then Suggs would come back and eat our hearts in front of us
Simons has all of the tools but lacks any BBIQ or internal drive to play defense...he's just a more athletic-looking Kennard and no pay cut coming either
Smith will cost a lot and he's been mediocre at best until the last 2 years - he'll end up breaking the bank...buying very high
Sexton is a ball-pounding dwarf that we're only calling a PG because he's tiny...he'll want a big raise too based on his empty stats
McCollum...no thanks for the cryptkeeper...he's been putting up empty stats for ...over a decade and he's on his last legs, just like KCP
Jrue...are you crazy, the guy is 100 years old and his scoring and assists are way down because of it - not because he's on an elite team, and the $$$
Porzingis, Brogdon...what are we running a hospital ward here for billionaire patients?

Poole...even more championship experience with clear impact than KCP, Very good size for a modern Lead Guard, has put up amazing scoring and shooting numbers for his whole career - even playing alongside some of the highest usage scorers in league history, not on crap teams. Commonly
known to be a very hard worker by teammates - even Draymond acknowldeges this. Blah Blah Michigan...

All of this is a stretch or more than a stretch, but picking guys apart is easy - finding viable solutions that fit our situation, timeline, payroll, etc is not so easy. THERE WILL BE A COMPROMISE...Plucking a talented guy from a bad team is the most likely scenario for a yin/yang complementary trade that both sides can live with...as opposed to expecting a playoff team (especially in the East) to trade a good player for future assets, without taking on absurd salary - which we can't do. We're not in position to "help" BOS, because we're facing the same concerns. LAST SUMMER would have been the time to pounce, but apparently none of the FO had read the new CBA rules yet.

Yeah in all of this people need to realize that teams aren’t going to give away their good assets for our bad ones. Teams aren’t going to take 3 quarters for a dollar. Magic will not be “winning” trades.

This is what I talked about like 3 months ago. Orlando isn’t one player away from solving the issues with this roster. Adding Anfernee Simons to the starting lineup doesn’t change the fact that Orlando has one of the worst benches in the league now being led offensively by a guy coming off an ACL injury.

The other thing I read here, and other places, is just a refusal to acknowledge asset value from other teams. Garland, D. White, C. White, and Reaves are all out of range in terms of not only assets but cost per cap space once re-signed. People have a hard time acknowledging that.

The bottom line is that Weltman needs to make the entire team better. I’m saying this after watching the two deepest teams make the finals. Indiana has 3 point guards that would start for Orlando. OKC has like 4. Consolidating every positive asset for one starting position doesn’t move the needle really. Why? Because that guy, per the assets at hand, still has glaring weaknesses and Orlando isn’t really in the conversation for the guys I already listed.

The question becomes, do you want Weltman to address all positions while still staying within a reasonable price point? Do you want Weltman to solve one roster spot while being slightly over/under? Or do you want him to solve nothing? I lean toward option 1 considering there is more flexibility despite people not loving the direct outcome.

Orlando needs more positive assets, not less. They aren’t competing for championships in the next two seasons. I’m not a homer enough to believe they are.

[Knightro]

I don't really disagree with pepe's takes on Poole or the other Poole skeptics at all. My take is just that there is a decent chance they are going to acquire a flawed option anyway and his contract ends in two years which is appealing to me as opposed to re-upping someone for 3-4 years.

I hope they check in on the higher end options this offseason, but if it comes down to the flawed options, I can probably live with Poole.

I don't think Poole is some automatic lock to be great player or anything like that.

But I do think he's had success as an efficient scorer on teams where things matter and I thought he showed some tangible improvements this past year too.

And the fact that it's a two year deal which doesn't extend the Magic past the current KCP contract timeline is appealing to me as well.

[Knightro]

The other thing I read here, and other places, is just a refusal to acknowledge asset value from other teams. Garland, D. White, C. White, and Reaves are all out of range in terms of not only assets but cost per cap space once re-signed. People have a hard time acknowledging that.

You're speaking in a lot of absolutes that aren't necessarily absolutes.

It all really depends on how aggressive Weltman is willing to be.

[89Magicfan]

Crazy to me how these conversations go. Same people who want Weltman fired for not fixing issue for years think it’s best and realistic we just accept the idea there isn’t much we can do so let’s get an player who multiplies the problem and if it doesn’t work we can kick the can down road two years from and address it then.

Just can’t make this **** up.

[VFX]

The other thing I read here, and other places, is just a refusal to acknowledge asset value from other teams. Garland, D. White, C. White, and Reaves are all out of range in terms of not only assets but cost per cap space once re-signed. People have a hard time acknowledging that.

You're speaking in a lot of absolutes that aren't necessarily absolutes.

It all really depends on how aggressive Weltman is willing to be.

So based on his track record do you believe I’m incorrect to think Weltman will not be extremely aggressive in trades? I think he’s absolutely terrified of making the wrong decision and that his job is on the line.

You must believe Weltman is going to trade every positive asset (Suggs included) for one of the guys I listed while also paying them as a third max or near max contract.

I simply don’t.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

The other thing I read here, and other places, is just a refusal to acknowledge asset value from other teams. Garland, D. White, C. White, and Reaves are all out of range in terms of not only assets but cost per cap space once re-signed. People have a hard time acknowledging that.

You're speaking in a lot of absolutes that aren't necessarily absolutes.

It all really depends on how aggressive Weltman is willing to be.

Weltman wouldn’t trade a 1st and Cole at the deadline for help. I have a hard time believing he’s going to empty the clip this summer

[VFX]

Crazy to me how these conversations go. Same people who want Weltman fired for not fixing issue for years think it’s best and realistic we just accept the idea there isn’t much we can do so let’s get an player who multiplies the problem and if it doesn’t work we can kick the can down road two years from and address it then.

Just can’t make this **** up.

Weltman should be fired BECAUSE he put himself in this position. Orlando is a 1st apron team because he handed out terrible contracts to role players that provide close to nothing.

Consolidating every positive asset on this team, with already very limited assets, to acquire players other teams have no problem getting rid of is currently the situation.

It’s just funny people are acting like there are a zillion options at hand here. There aren’t. They have late draft picks, AB, and bench garbage as their assets.

[89Magicfan]

The other thing I read here, and other places, is just a refusal to acknowledge asset value from other teams. Garland, D. White, C. White, and Reaves are all out of range in terms of not only assets but cost per cap space once re-signed. People have a hard time acknowledging that.

You're speaking in a lot of absolutes that aren't necessarily absolutes.

It all really depends on how aggressive Weltman is willing to be.

So based on his track record do you believe I’m incorrect to think Weltman will not be extremely aggressive in trades? I think he’s absolutely terrified of making the wrong decision and that his job is on the line.

You must believe Weltman is going to trade every positive asset (Suggs included) for one of the guys I listed while also paying them as a third max or near max contract.

I simply don’t.

One thing I noticed about Weltman is he usually doesn’t say something he doesn’t mean. He always preached continuity, patience, evaluation.

This time he’s saying the complete opposite. He’s saying he wants to now add win now players and more offense.

[89Magicfan]

Crazy to me how these conversations go. Same people who want Weltman fired for not fixing issue for years think it’s best and realistic we just accept the idea there isn’t much we can do so let’s get an player who multiplies the problem and if it doesn’t work we can kick the can down road two years from and address it then.

Just can’t make this **** up.

Weltman should be fired BECAUSE he put himself in this position. Orlando is a 1st apron team because he handed out terrible contracts to role players that provide close to nothing.

Consolidating every positive asset on this team, with already very limited assets, to acquire players other teams have no problem getting rid of is currently the situation.

It’s just funny people are acting like there are a zillion options at hand here. There aren’t. They have late draft picks, AB, and bench garbage as their assets.

Not a zillion but not only 1 (Poole) either.

There’s options out there and the only untouchable should be Paolo with Franz being 2nd

[Knightro]

One thing I noticed about Weltman is he usually doesn’t say something he doesn’t mean. He always preached continuity, patience, evaluation.

This time he’s saying the complete opposite. He’s saying he wants to now add win now players and more offense.

This where I'm at as well.

I'm certainly not a Weltman fan, but his words after the season were so far away from anything he's ever said before that it makes me thing he's willing to make some significant moves to improve the roster.

[VFX]

You're speaking in a lot of absolutes that aren't necessarily absolutes.

It all really depends on how aggressive Weltman is willing to be.

So based on his track record do you believe I’m incorrect to think Weltman will not be extremely aggressive in trades? I think he’s absolutely terrified of making the wrong decision and that his job is on the line.

You must believe Weltman is going to trade every positive asset (Suggs included) for one of the guys I listed while also paying them as a third max or near max contract.

I simply don’t.

One thing I noticed about Weltman is he usually doesn’t say something he doesn’t mean. He always preached continuity, patience, evaluation.

This time he’s saying the complete opposite. He’s saying he wants to now add win now players and more offense.

He can say whatever he wants.

We can all see the assets he has at his disposal. I’m not 5 years old. I know he isn’t getting Giannis or even Darius Garland for garbage because people want it to be the case.

He’s not trading Cole Anthony and Jett Howard for Malik Monk and Keon Ellis because people like the way it sounds on paper. It’s called reality.

He’s giving up a pick and filler for one of these guards with glaring weaknesses while attempting to sell off bad role players nobody wants.

[Knightro]

He can say whatever he wants.

We can all see the assets he has at his disposal. I’m not 5 years old. I know he isn’t getting Giannis or even Darius Garland for garbage because people want it to be the case.

He’s not trading Cole Anthony and Jett Howard for Malik Monk and Keon Ellis because people like the way it sounds on paper. It’s called reality.

I think you're the person lacking reality here.

The Magic have the ability to trade 5 first round picks if they are so inclined. Those are currency that teams want in trades.

Weltman can make a competitive offer for anybody if he wants to, because he has his full allotment of picks and swaps available to him.

We'll see if he wants to.

[VFX]

He can say whatever he wants.

We can all see the assets he has at his disposal. I’m not 5 years old. I know he isn’t getting Giannis or even Darius Garland for garbage because people want it to be the case.

He’s not trading Cole Anthony and Jett Howard for Malik Monk and Keon Ellis because people like the way it sounds on paper. It’s called reality.

I think you're the person lacking reality here.

The Magic have the ability to trade 5 first round picks if they are so inclined. Those are currency that teams want in trades.

Yeah for who then? They still have to pay whoever they acquire for said firsts. The money doesn’t make sense unless you believe Suggs is 100% gone, which is what you are implying in a roundabout way.

Or are you saying Cleveland is going to take Isaac, Cole, Goga, and 5 firsts for Garland? Thats the other way of saying something super improbable. But yeah, I’m lacking reality lmao.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

So based on his track record do you believe I’m incorrect to think Weltman will not be extremely aggressive in trades? I think he’s absolutely terrified of making the wrong decision and that his job is on the line.

You must believe Weltman is going to trade every positive asset (Suggs included) for one of the guys I listed while also paying them as a third max or near max contract.

I simply don’t.

One thing I noticed about Weltman is he usually doesn’t say something he doesn’t mean. He always preached continuity, patience, evaluation.

This time he’s saying the complete opposite. He’s saying he wants to now add win now players and more offense.

He can say whatever he wants.

We can all see the assets he has at his disposal. I’m not 5 years old. I know he isn’t getting Giannis or even Darius Garland for garbage because people want it to be the case.

He’s not trading Cole Anthony and Jett Howard for Malik Monk and Keon Ellis because people like the way it sounds on paper. It’s called reality.

He’s giving up a pick and filler for one of these guards with glaring weaknesses while attempting to sell off bad role players nobody wants.

It’s going to be one of Simon’s Sexton IMO should be easy moves with minimal pieces to move. Then they’ll go after NAW or likewise with MLE.

Unless the FO has balls and moves KCP/Black

[Knightro]

Yeah for who then? They still have to pay whoever they acquire for said firsts. The money doesn’t make sense unless you believe Suggs is 100% gone, which is what you are implying in a roundabout way.

Suggs would only be outgoing if they acquire a player on a long-term max contract like Garland - which I'm obviously fine with.

If they're acquiring someone in the 25-30M range, Trey Murphy III just as one example, they could do that without Suggs. It would just be a package of unprotected picks and swaps and salary filler.

[89Magicfan]

He can say whatever he wants.

We can all see the assets he has at his disposal. I’m not 5 years old. I know he isn’t getting Giannis or even Darius Garland for garbage because people want it to be the case.

He’s not trading Cole Anthony and Jett Howard for Malik Monk and Keon Ellis because people like the way it sounds on paper. It’s called reality.

I think you're the person lacking reality here.

The Magic have the ability to trade 5 first round picks if they are so inclined. Those are currency that teams want in trades.

Yeah for who then? They still have to pay whoever they acquire for said firsts. The money doesn’t make sense unless you believe Suggs is 100% gone, which is what you are implying in a roundabout way.

That’s ultimately up to him right? I get us talking and looking at options, playing GM. It’s fun I get it but to say there’s no other options, it’s not true. Plenty of off seasons through history has trades that have made a sizable shift for teams to be better. Many deals that weren’t predicted nor considered to be possible.

[eyriq]

Orlando’s in a good spot. With 13 teams already under the tax and a few likely to drop under the cap, a big chunk of the league won’t be able to use the full MLE. We’ve got clear advantages with no state tax, a defined identity, strong culture, and real upward trajectory. I’d bet we land one of the better MLE-level free agents.

Trade-wise, we’ve got options. Cole’s an expiring, JI’s on a declining deal with light guarantees, KCP still helps contenders, and Jett is a mystery-box. Add in our draft equity and we’re positioned for a re-tool. The timing lines up.

[Knightro]

As far as Nickeil Alexander-Walker goes, I would only sign him if KCP was outgoing in a deal. Those two have skill sets that are too overlapping to have them both on the roster making a combined $35.7M.

If KCP stays, I'd go a different direction with the MLE.

[VFX]

Yeah for who then? They still have to pay whoever they acquire for said firsts. The money doesn’t make sense unless you believe Suggs is 100% gone, which is what you are implying in a roundabout way.

Suggs would only be outgoing if they acquire a player on a long-term max contract like Garland - which I'm obviously fine with.

If they're acquiring someone in the 25-30M range, Trey Murphy III just as one example, they could do that without Suggs. It would just be a package of unprotected picks and swaps and salary filler.

Yeah that Mikael Bridges deal really worked out for New York. I guess it makes sense if your coach is Thibs and you play 6 players total. Who cares if you mortgage your future to upgrade your lineup by one total position. We have Jett and Caleb Houstan off the bench when one of these starters gets annually injured.