Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest"/KD too

[Clutch0z24]

Booker? Ja?

I think we could make a push for them as well as Trae Young/Lamelo Ball.....If Giannis ofc doesn't work out....Giannis will be priority number 1 though....

A Raptors core of LaMelo Ball, Brandon Ingram and Scottie Barnes...between the combined 100 games missed per year and the awful body language, it would be a product befitting this ownership group

You can only go after who is available....So if they are going to try and add someone via the trade market its going to be

Giannis
KD
Booker (Maybe who knows if they trade him)
Ja Morant
Trae Young
LaMelo Ball
Darius Garland
Zion (I doubt anyone trades for him)
Jaylen Brown (Prolly traded for a better package than what we can offer if they are gonna move him)

Name more....But seems like these are the "Big Fish" Who i can see actually being traded realistically

[Troubadour]

Start up the Barnes appreciation thread boys!

Need it expeditiously

[tdotrep2]

The irony of trading Pascal Siakam because he's "only a number two option" to then trade for a "big fish" who needs a number two option is too much for me to stomach.

Also weird how superstar and future face of the league needs a "big fish" on top of leading scoring option and ball handler Brandon Ingram and second scoring option RJ Barrett. What's his role on the team at that point and when does management get rid of everyone again to make sure Scottie's ego isn't bruised?

what is ingram? clearly number 2, scottie + ingram more than fill this so I am not sure why we are bringing up pascal

They brought up Pascal, it's in the podcast episode.

OK, so if Brandon Ingram was brought in to be the number two option...and the Raptors are now looking for a "big fish" on top of that...what does that make Scottie Barnes aka future face of the league?

(and Pascal Siakam is the reason the Raptors even came up on that podcast, most media people don't talk about middling lottery teams)

Scottie was likely never going to be a number 1, that's not his game. But what does this make him? A 23 year old capable of getting 20 a night on elite defense and playmaking... I mean lol

[Troubadour]

I think we could make a push for them as well as Trae Young/Lamelo Ball.....If Giannis ofc doesn't work out....Giannis will be priority number 1 though....

A Raptors core of LaMelo Ball, Brandon Ingram and Scottie Barnes...between the combined 100 games missed per year and the awful body language, it would be a product befitting this ownership group

You can only go after who is available....So if they are going to try and add someone via the trade market its going to be

Giannis
KD
Booker (Maybe who knows if they trade him)
Ja Morant
Trae Young
LaMelo Ball
Darius Garland
Zion (I doubt anyone trades for him)
Jaylen Brown (Prolly traded for a better package than what we can offer if they are gonna move him)

Name more....But seems like these are the "Big Fish" Who i can see actually being traded realistically

But why are they going after a big fish? What's the rush? Don't they have a superstar and future face of the league already? And Brandon Ingram had a great first round series three years ago, so he's your number two.

[Scase]

This has been the story every off season, I'll believe it when I see it. All past reports after the fact leak what the Raps allegedly offered, and it was always lowballing. Every team in the league can be "looking for a big fish" but seldom do they pay for a big fish, that's the distinction.

[Clutch0z24]

A Raptors core of LaMelo Ball, Brandon Ingram and Scottie Barnes...between the combined 100 games missed per year and the awful body language, it would be a product befitting this ownership group

You can only go after who is available....So if they are going to try and add someone via the trade market its going to be

Giannis
KD
Booker (Maybe who knows if they trade him)
Ja Morant
Trae Young
LaMelo Ball
Darius Garland
Zion (I doubt anyone trades for him)
Jaylen Brown (Prolly traded for a better package than what we can offer if they are gonna move him)

Name more....But seems like these are the "Big Fish" Who i can see actually being traded realistically

But why are they going after a big fish? What's the rush? Don't they have a superstar and future face of the league already? And Brandon Ingram had a great first round series three years ago, so he's your number two.

Prolly because the east is wide open and any team that has even a really good team has a chance to make it to the finals.....Adding another guy to make a 3rd with Barnes/Ingram/(Traded player) makes us more legit.....If we trade for a Giannis you are seeing Scottie gone so it would be Ingram/Giannis....But either way....Im starting to think the 9th picks getting traded regardless now...

[Troubadour]

what is ingram? clearly number 2, scottie + ingram more than fill this so I am not sure why we are bringing up pascal

They brought up Pascal, it's in the podcast episode.

OK, so if Brandon Ingram was brought in to be the number two option...and the Raptors are now looking for a "big fish" on top of that...what does that make Scottie Barnes aka future face of the league?

(and Pascal Siakam is the reason the Raptors even came up on that podcast, most media people don't talk about middling lottery teams)

Scottie was likely never going to be a number 1, that's not his game. But what does this make him? A 23 year old capable of getting 20 a night on elite defense and playmaking... I mean lol

If he was "never" going to be a number one option, why did Darko call him the future face of the league? Why did the Raptors blow up this team to build around him?

OK, so he's 24 in 8 weeks and entering his fifth season in the league. He's actually not yet capable of averaging 20 PPG, he's never done it despite being force fed touches for the last 18 months. He can't shoot, he can't beat his defender with a live dribble, his ballhandling isn't good enough to actually leverage his ability to process the game.

He's a great defender, but he's best used offball, so you still need a primary onball defender next to him. Since he can't shoot, you also need shooting at every other position on the floor. Since he can't dribble, you also need live dribble creators next to him.

So again, what are we doing here? We're contorting ourselves to build around a player who is not a number one option, not a game changing defender, not a shooter, not a lead playmaker...why?

[Troubadour]

You can only go after who is available....So if they are going to try and add someone via the trade market its going to be

Giannis
KD
Booker (Maybe who knows if they trade him)
Ja Morant
Trae Young
LaMelo Ball
Darius Garland
Zion (I doubt anyone trades for him)
Jaylen Brown (Prolly traded for a better package than what we can offer if they are gonna move him)

Name more....But seems like these are the "Big Fish" Who i can see actually being traded realistically

But why are they going after a big fish? What's the rush? Don't they have a superstar and future face of the league already? And Brandon Ingram had a great first round series three years ago, so he's your number two.

Prolly because the east is wide open and any team that has even a really good team has a chance to make it to the finals.....Adding another guy to make a 3rd with Barnes/Ingram/(Traded player) makes us more legit.....If we trade for a Giannis you are seeing Scottie gone so it would be Ingram/Giannis....But either way....Im starting to think the 9th picks getting traded regardless now...

I agree that Scottie for Giannis is absolutely worth it. Don't think Scottie has that value 12 months from now, so the time is now.

Trading the 9th pick plus some combination of IQ, RJ and other role players for a third player to go with Scottie Barnes and Brandon Ingram creates a much worse version of the 22/23 team everyone hated. Unless there's a team out there that mysteriously values that package way more than I do. No idea why they would bother.

[Indeed]

The irony of trading Pascal Siakam because he's "only a number two option" to then trade for a "big fish" who needs a number two option is too much for me to stomach.

Also weird how superstar and future face of the league needs a "big fish" on top of leading scoring option and ball handler Brandon Ingram and second scoring option RJ Barrett. What's his role on the team at that point and when does management get rid of everyone again to make sure Scottie's ego isn't bruised?

what is ingram? clearly number 2, scottie + ingram more than fill this so I am not sure why we are bringing up pascal

How is Barnes being so bad on offense can be a top 3 options in a playoff team, lol, clearly just being a homer. Bottom 20 on offense in the league, and even him being average, he would not be a top 2.

[tsherkin]

Very interested to see if this pans out. It certainly is the right mentality to take if we're starting to look at improving, depending on who we chase.

KD wouldn't make any sense; he's too old and can't carry a team any more. Giannis would be interesting, but seems unlikely. Booker would be pretty ideal.

Ja Morant isn't worth it. Trae would be interesting to run a team, so long as we put finishers around him. Ball isn't worth it. Zion isn't worth it. Garland would be interesting depending on the package. And Jaylen Brown wouldn't be worth it.

So I'm very curious to see if this goes anywhere.

[Clutch0z24]

But why are they going after a big fish? What's the rush? Don't they have a superstar and future face of the league already? And Brandon Ingram had a great first round series three years ago, so he's your number two.

Prolly because the east is wide open and any team that has even a really good team has a chance to make it to the finals.....Adding another guy to make a 3rd with Barnes/Ingram/(Traded player) makes us more legit.....If we trade for a Giannis you are seeing Scottie gone so it would be Ingram/Giannis....But either way....Im starting to think the 9th picks getting traded regardless now...

I agree that Scottie for Giannis is absolutely worth it. Don't think Scottie has that value 12 months from now, so the time is now.

Trading the 9th pick plus some combination of IQ, RJ and other role players for a third player to go with Scottie Barnes and Brandon Ingram creates a much worse version of the 22/23 team everyone hated. Unless there's a team out there that mysteriously values that package way more than I do. No idea why they would bother.

Yeah it really all depends they could see Morant/Trae/Ball type of dynamic guard to be like a Brunson/Hali type of player for us which is the thought process of getting one of them guards .....As for Barnes Masai obviously still believes he can be special as he grows more....And Ingram if hes healthy is a go to scorer type of player....

As for Giannis....Hes prolly the big fish being mentioned here but theres a chance that trade does not unfold which you have to pivot at that point to one of these other guys that you maybe don't have to give up Barnes for....

Raptors are deff trying to make moves.....Prolly 75% chance the 9th pick is shipped on draft night if this report is true...

[Merit]

The irony of trading Pascal Siakam because he's "only a number two option" to then trade for a "big fish" who needs a number two option is too much for me to stomach.

Also weird how superstar and future face of the league needs a "big fish" on top of leading scoring option and ball handler Brandon Ingram and second scoring option RJ Barrett. What's his role on the team at that point and when does management get rid of everyone again to make sure Scottie's ego isn't bruised?

What you’re missing is the contract situation.

Can I ask - are you suggesting that Pascal and Scottie are better together? Because that’s an interesting argument to make.

[tecumseh18]

After seeing how Turner and Pascal fit together, the priority has to be a C who can shoot. JJJ would be perfect, but like Canada, he's not for sale. I've never liked KAT as a player (although he seems nice as a person). And I'm pretty sure Thibs hates him. I've thought that a challenge trade of Towns for Giannis would be really entertaining, and help the league.

After that embarrassment of a game last night, his stock must be low right now. I really wouldn't want KAT on the Raps, but could we trade Poeltl and an ex-Knick (and future picks, not #9) for him? It would sure spice things up around here.

[causal_fan]

I would think every team in the East is aware of how weak the East is and the top 2 picks in the draft are heading west - I'd expect most teams in the East think they may be one player away from contention and the Raptors are no exception.

[TimeForChange]

Can we please start showing some appreciation to Wu for starting this thread?

Only one and-1 is disgusting.

Thank you for the post Wu.

[Troubadour]

The irony of trading Pascal Siakam because he's "only a number two option" to then trade for a "big fish" who needs a number two option is too much for me to stomach.

Also weird how superstar and future face of the league needs a "big fish" on top of leading scoring option and ball handler Brandon Ingram and second scoring option RJ Barrett. What's his role on the team at that point and when does management get rid of everyone again to make sure Scottie's ego isn't bruised?

What you’re missing is the contract situation.

Can I ask - are you suggesting that Pascal and Scottie are better together? Because that’s an interesting argument to make.

What's evident is the best stretch play we've ever seen from Scottie Barnes came when Pascal Siakam was the number one option for about a month in the 23/24 season. We didn't see enough to say if that pairing was actually good or bad.

[WuTang_CMB]

The irony of trading Pascal Siakam because he's "only a number two option" to then trade for a "big fish" who needs a number two option is too much for me to stomach.

Also weird how superstar and future face of the league needs a "big fish" on top of leading scoring option and ball handler Brandon Ingram and second scoring option RJ Barrett. What's his role on the team at that point and when does management get rid of everyone again to make sure Scottie's ego isn't bruised?

what is ingram? clearly number 2, scottie + ingram more than fill this so I am not sure why we are bringing up pascal

They brought up Pascal, it's in the podcast episode.

OK, so if Brandon Ingram was brought in to be the number two option...and the Raptors are now looking for a "big fish" on top of that...what does that make Scottie Barnes aka future face of the league?

(and Pascal Siakam is the reason the Raptors even came up on that podcast, most media people don't talk about middling lottery teams)

A true big fish like giannis and scottie would need to be sacrificed

NBA changes on a dime. Masai is a killer and would do it if Giannis truly wanted to come. But highly highly doubtful

[Troubadour]

what is ingram? clearly number 2, scottie + ingram more than fill this so I am not sure why we are bringing up pascal

They brought up Pascal, it's in the podcast episode.

OK, so if Brandon Ingram was brought in to be the number two option...and the Raptors are now looking for a "big fish" on top of that...what does that make Scottie Barnes aka future face of the league?

(and Pascal Siakam is the reason the Raptors even came up on that podcast, most media people don't talk about middling lottery teams)

A true big fish like giannis and scottie would need to be sacrificed

One can only hope!

[Basketball_Jones]

This guys feeling the heat he better not pull a BC. Don’t trade the pick.

[PhilBlackson]

The irony of trading Pascal Siakam because he's "only a number two option" to then trade for a "big fish" who needs a number two option is too much for me to stomach.

Also weird how superstar and future face of the league needs a "big fish" on top of leading scoring option and ball handler Brandon Ingram and second scoring option RJ Barrett. What's his role on the team at that point and when does management get rid of everyone again to make sure Scottie's ego isn't bruised?

what is ingram? clearly number 2, scottie + ingram more than fill this so I am not sure why we are bringing up pascal

They brought up Pascal, it's in the podcast episode.

OK, so if Brandon Ingram was brought in to be the number two option...and the Raptors are now looking for a "big fish" on top of that...what does that make Scottie Barnes aka future face of the league?

(and Pascal Siakam is the reason the Raptors even came up on that podcast, most media people don't talk about middling lottery teams)

Who cares about whatever "label" Darko gave Scottie?! lol It's about results.

You're whining about trading Pascal but that version of the team was doing absolutely nothing. I don't even know why some of you even pout over that, did you forget we were in the lottery 3 out of the 4 years those guys were the "core"?! And worse off that team had no depth.

Ingram + Scottie + whichever star player will EASILY be better than 75% of the time lottery team led FVV/OG/Pascal one and due to moving on from those guys will likely also have a better surrounding cast. You guys are blurring your feelings for those players with the facts of their results.