PG: Out of our Misery

[Jeff Van Gully]

Sprinkling in a little bit of homophobia to add to the long list of things that make you a bad person?

I'm very troubled by the original post. It was made clear that this kind of behavior wasn't acceptable, and the result was a suspension for a first offense. Given that everybody understands the position of the board on this, to do a discredited meme about KAT (and bring **** about one of our players) to this thread is really out of bounds. This has got to stop. How?

how exactly would you know that?

[god shammgod]

there's a double standard going on here because there's been a picture of thibs as a woman posted multiple times here and nobody said a word about it. either it's all bad or none of it is.

[BKlutch]

We get it, you hate Brunson

Players you dislike are really not the issue. After one suspension and all the resulting discussion, don't you understand that what you posted is wrong, no matter your feelings about the player?

Posting a meme is wrong? How old are you? I feel like you aren’t with the times.

I never said posting a meme is wrong. I said the meme you posted is wrong for RealGM. If you really don't understand why, just ask, and I'm sure lots of us can tell you why. But I'm sure you're not that disingenuous.

Also, please keep comments to what is posted, and let's not make it about the person. That's also not cool.

[Pr0nzingis]

Our defensive rating last year in the playoffs was 120.6

Our defensive rating this year in the playoffs was 113.2



But facts right?

Wait a minute...we were told repeatedly:

Knicks plus KAT = worst defense in the universe.

Knicks minus KAT = best defense in the universe.

How is such an anomaly possible? Your numerical sorcery has broken the mathematics.

u realize that Knicks had basically all players injured last year right?

[BKlutch]

katz on KFS gave some valuable perspective on the state and impact of team culture. that's not to be on some "it's on the players." but it was helpful in my processing to hear about the challenges that every team of players has to overcome internally as part of it.

i feel like katz did that on the heels of the release of his writing used in what he thought to be a hit piece. really, really interesting stuff.

my takeaways were that a lot of inconsistencies are coming from the players genuinely struggling to interact with each other on several levels, and that we may have underestimated how some of the moving pieces impacted the parts of that which were a big strength of last year's group.

i thought it explained a lot of the inconsistency. it also explains why we hear "communication" and "execution" so much in player interviews. like, they really saying it. it's not just canned spam.

Yeah I think it's obvious that these guys were never on the same page at all the entire year. When PJ started talking about communication and then we kept hearing about it after every loss. Even Mitch was getting on himself about not communicating defensively.

KAT and JB not being able to function offensively as a tandem in PnR/PnP screams that the chemistry is either bad or not where it needs to be.

If we are running it back with this core group, these guys need to spend some time this summer together working out, watching film and developing chemistry. Because the communication starts between them. Tom can't speak for them.

Brunson is the leader so I expect him to work towards fixing things.

i think they have recognition on what to do in that regard. i am talking myself off the ledge in reminding myself that this is the first year of it with major changes super late in the offseason. they did a lot despite those challenges.

still sucks. all of it can be true. i'm proud and disappointed at the same damn time.
I'm sure lots of us feel this way. A year ago, if you'd told me we'd make it to the ECF and lose in 6 games, I'd have said "That's great. Progress!" Every time we did better, somehow we wanted more. That's natural. But we can't forget that this team will improve and there's every reason to think next year will be another step forward. Anyway, cheers to all of us who avoided heart attacks and strokes, and are still here to root for the team. GO KNICKS!

i do expect all of it to be better next season, as it has been year over year since JB's arrival.

[nedleeds]

So unexpected surprise my seats were right in the Knicks tunnel, and my gut feeling from being 5 feet away from Leon/Wes/Gerson as they hugged players is that KAT and Jalen aren’t going anywhere. Those are Leon’s sons.
.

They're his clients. Sam Rose gets millions off those, and Og and Thibs deals. Is everyone here blind to this?

Where my "if we were healthy !!?!!!" truthers from when Indiana rinsed us last year? A Pacers team that's younger, better, better coach and got better younger Bridges in Nesmith as a throw in as opposed to half a decade of 1sts.

This franchise is a busted treadmill to nowhere whose only purpose is to enrich CAA while clown Dolan snoozes in Vegas.

[BKlutch]

Sprinkling in a little bit of homophobia to add to the long list of things that make you a bad person?

I'm very troubled by the original post. It was made clear that this kind of behavior wasn't acceptable, and the result was a suspension for a first offense. Given that everybody understands the position of the board on this, to do a discredited meme about KAT (and bring **** about one of our players) to this thread is really out of bounds. This has got to stop. How?

how exactly would you know that?

Sorry, even though it seemed sudden to us, I should have just said a suspension following that post. That's all I know.

[ezmoney707]

there's a double standard going on here because there's been a picture of thibs as a woman posted multiple times here and nobody said a word about it. either it's all bad or none of it is.

I think AI images are silly (and mostly harmful which is whole other thing in itself), but you know there has never been a false labeling/narrative of Thibs sexuality or gender…context matters (but you know that)

[Iron Mantis]

Our defensive rating last year in the playoffs was 120.6

Our defensive rating this year in the playoffs was 113.2



But facts right?

Wait a minute...we were told repeatedly:

Knicks plus KAT = worst defense in the universe.

Knicks minus KAT = best defense in the universe.

How is such an anomaly possible? Your numerical sorcery has broken the mathematics.

u realize that Knicks had basically all players injured last year right?

So????

Knicks plus KAT = worst defense in the universe.

Knicks minus KAT = best defense in the universe.

The Knicks should have been far better defensively in the playoffs last year simply because KAT, the worst defender in the universe, was not there...... but the Numbers don't back it up..............

[Jeff Van Gully]

I'm very troubled by the original post. It was made clear that this kind of behavior wasn't acceptable, and the result was a suspension for a first offense. Given that everybody understands the position of the board on this, to do a discredited meme about KAT (and bring **** about one of our players) to this thread is really out of bounds. This has got to stop. How?

how exactly would you know that?

Sorry, even though it seemed sudden to us, I should have just said a suspension for that post. That's all I know.

understood. and points taken and appreciated.

mod team will be better.

[god shammgod]

there's a double standard going on here because there's been a picture of thibs as a woman posted multiple times here and nobody said a word about it. either it's all bad or none of it is.

I think AI images are silly (and mostly harmful which is whole other thing in itself), but you know there has never been a false labeling/narrative of Thibs sexuality or gender…context matters (but you know that)

you could make the argument that presenting any man as a woman is homophobic (or at the very least sexist) no matter what prior narratives exists. we can't easily determine intention. like i said, it's either all bad or it's not.

[RHODEY]

Remember, Milwaukee is in no position to tank. So it may play in our favor.

I'd probably see what Phoenix wants for Durant tho in the process just in case.

Sure but no why do I give PHX much for Durant, certainly not Kat. And since he has a huge contract we'd have to overpay,

Unfortunately it would be impossible to trade for Durant without moving KAT unless we give up Mikal, Josh, and Mitch in the process.

Tha'ts what I mean by his huge contract, and he is no way worth either of those trades at this point in his career. Only way that makes sense would be if he was bought out, and that aint gonna happen.

[Reign23]

towns plus minus is a reflection of him playing with the bench unit in this series. mcbride has the best and mitch had the 2nd best until they made him a starter. landry shamet played a total of 83 minutes and is 3rd best and wright played 48 minutes and is 4th best. context matters.

and you think that guys would be at the top without Towns basically scoring 10 points at the beginning of each 2nd/4th quarter?

[Ursusamericanus]

The Knicks are going to be more than fine. Making a deep ECF run for the first time in 25 years is a big deal. This was the first year for this core - they need time to gel. It's always tempting to be hyperbolic and be a prisoner of the moment but let's have some perspective.

[god shammgod]

towns plus minus is a reflection of him playing with the bench unit in this series. mcbride has the best and mitch had the 2nd best until they made him a starter. landry shamet played a total of 83 minutes and is 3rd best and wright played 48 minutes and is 4th best. context matters.

and you think that guys would be at the top without Towns basically scoring 10 points at the beginning of each 2nd/4th quarter?

well they were before we started doing that

the only plus minus that really matters is brunson and kat on the floor together. you can't play them separately that much to avoid that. if you want to say we should trade brunson instead that's fine but i disagree.

[MrDollarBills]

katz on KFS gave some valuable perspective on the state and impact of team culture. that's not to be on some "it's on the players." but it was helpful in my processing to hear about the challenges that every team of players has to overcome internally as part of it.

i feel like katz did that on the heels of the release of his writing used in what he thought to be a hit piece. really, really interesting stuff.

my takeaways were that a lot of inconsistencies are coming from the players genuinely struggling to interact with each other on several levels, and that we may have underestimated how some of the moving pieces impacted the parts of that which were a big strength of last year's group.

i thought it explained a lot of the inconsistency. it also explains why we hear "communication" and "execution" so much in player interviews. like, they really saying it. it's not just canned spam.

Yeah I think it's obvious that these guys were never on the same page at all the entire year. When PJ started talking about communication and then we kept hearing about it after every loss. Even Mitch was getting on himself about not communicating defensively.

KAT and JB not being able to function offensively as a tandem in PnR/PnP screams that the chemistry is either bad or not where it needs to be.

If we are running it back with this core group, these guys need to spend some time this summer together working out, watching film and developing chemistry. Because the communication starts between them. Tom can't speak for them.

Brunson is the leader so I expect him to work towards fixing things.

i think they have recognition on what to do in that regard. i am talking myself off the ledge in reminding myself that this is the first year of it with major changes super late in the offseason. they did a lot despite those challenges.

still sucks. all of it can be true. i'm proud and disappointed at the same damn time.

i do expect all of it to be better next season, as it has been year over year since JB's arrival.

Yeah I think all things considered, this is not a bad position to be in. We've got three or 4 months to figure this out.

There's no guarantees that we get back to the ECF next year. But for what it's worth, it was a fun and often frustrating ride because we all know:

This can be better.

[NYKat]

Anybody notice how all the conspiracy theorists who think the league rigs the playoffs and the draft for the big market teams are quiet when we have teams like Indiana and OKC in the Finals?

[rajajackal]

just offering my two cents as a board member:

1. the picture does not feel homophobic as hatred against gay people, but it does feel like it's cheaply attacking "gayness" as kat's weak point. i make the distinction because it's the difference between a tasteless joke and an act of bigotry
2. it's just a meme

a number of users here say really weird, sexually charged, highly misogynistic things trying to be funny or get and1's. i cringe through most of it and don't bother asking for mods to censor the community. i know tensions are high right now. this series was tough on the heart. but let's not go lord of the flies on melo

i suggest you all join me in focusing on your betterment as men and women until we reconvene over the offseason rumor mill. go Nobody, i won't be watching the Country Bowl. my birthday is on wednesday. god bless

[MrDollarBills]

katz on KFS gave some valuable perspective on the state and impact of team culture. that's not to be on some "it's on the players." but it was helpful in my processing to hear about the challenges that every team of players has to overcome internally as part of it.

i feel like katz did that on the heels of the release of his writing used in what he thought to be a hit piece. really, really interesting stuff.

my takeaways were that a lot of inconsistencies are coming from the players genuinely struggling to interact with each other on several levels, and that we may have underestimated how some of the moving pieces impacted the parts of that which were a big strength of last year's group.

i thought it explained a lot of the inconsistency. it also explains why we hear "communication" and "execution" so much in player interviews. like, they really saying it. it's not just canned spam.

Yeah I think it's obvious that these guys were never on the same page at all the entire year. When PJ started talking about communication and then we kept hearing about it after every loss. Even Mitch was getting on himself about not communicating defensively.

KAT and JB not being able to function offensively as a tandem in PnR/PnP screams that the chemistry is either bad or not where it needs to be.

If we are running it back with this core group, these guys need to spend some time this summer together working out, watching film and developing chemistry. Because the communication starts between them. Tom can't speak for them.

Brunson is the leader so I expect him to work towards fixing things.

Yea that’s the other part of why Denver won a title… Joker n Murray’s 2-man game is amazing. So between that, Joker being better than KAT overall, and their coaching (Malone is a better coach than Thibs, just because he’s an old white guy that plays shorter rotations doesn’t mean he’s the same lol), it got the job done.

If Thibs consistently sticks with the adjustments he made in the PO starting day 1… switch heavy defense, playing 9-10 guys every night so our guys aren’t dead this time of year (I think a lot of the TO’s were just mental fatigue), and Jalen n KAT work on developing a 2-man game, then we could win. Gotta work on that transition defense too and shoot more 3’s.

I think Leon, Wes, Rick, and co gotta talk to Tom about adding some modern wrinkles to his game plan. Longer rotations. More emphasis on shooting the deep ball. 3 point defense.

These are things that can be corrected.

It's okay to need help. There's no shame in that.

Like yeah, I had a lot of concerns with what Tom did this year. But we got to the conference finals. He's not getting fired. So I think the entire organization from the front office down to the 15th man need to come together to figure out what works, what doesn't, and what can be made better.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Plus/minus in small sample sizes is never really a great stand alone indicator.

KATs defense is still an issue, along with Brunson. We still should have won the series or at least got to game 7. Indy was a better team then I gave them credit too. They beat us and outplayed us. We just never could recover from the Game 1 collapse, followed by a game 2 loss. Too big of a hole.

It was a weird series. We never really put together a good game, except for game 5. Thibs was way too late to adjust. And never good when your adjusting with me rotations that late. We should have experimented way earlier in the season or playoffs.

But more then enough blame to go to just about everyone...Brunson, KAT, Mikal, OG, Hart, even Deuce. Mitch balled out. Everyone else had moments but just too many inconsistencies on either or both ends.

Siakam was the difference maker. We couldn't contain him.

Knicks could have played better. They still have room to get better and be better....it will be tricky to find out the answers. Biggest ones are obviously if KAT and Brunson can coexist enough to truly win it all and if Thibs is the right coach