PG: Out of our Misery

[Iron Mantis]

i know you need to do what you do here, but gregg popovich would strongly disagree with you on this one. he would argue that the humility, openmindedness, and adaptability kept him in the game.

And Thibs has none of those characteristics....

And I do not believe at 67 years old that popovich needed the president of basketball operations or team owner to teach him how to coach.

Its all just homer delusion, people claiming a roster of soon to be 30 year olds -- most now with injury history have "lots of room for improvement"

It is fair to say that championship-level chemistry and cohesion can't be developed in an entirely new team's first season.

Bolster the bench...hopefully a coaching change....let's see what next season brings.

[Ursusamericanus]

The Knicks are going to be more than fine. Making a deep ECF run for the first time in 25 years is a big deal. This was the first year for this core - they need time to gel. It's always tempting to be hyperbolic and be a prisoner of the moment but let's have some perspective.

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Have to admit I don't know what this means lol. What's your take?

[F N 11]

It wasn’t enough to lose to Indy last year. We gotta go get Giannis to beat them. If that doesn’t tell you Thibs suck then idk….

[F N 11]

Serious question ..

Would nepotism end up dooming the Knicks? For the first time we are good but I feel like the loyalty will screw us.
With players and with Thibs.

[sol537]

1. Thibs needs to go. Get a more modern coach please.
2. KAT needs to go. He and Brunson just don't work and his value is solid around the league.
3. Mikal and Mitch need to be extended. Both can be had on nice deals.
4. I'm not crazy about Hart so he can go too, if needed.
5. Retain Wright/Shamet for another season; Get CP3 for back-up PG duties for 1 year.
6. Get Giannis if he's available... otherwise, explore other trade options for KAT.

We can get to 55-60 wins and the 2nd seed next season.

[ctorres]

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I love Mitch and I wouldnt trade him...

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]

btw...you taking that trip to Indy was some real **** sir. Next time I go court side
I will reach out to you

[F N 11]

But but F N 11 Thibs is good . We won the game blah blah. I keep telling yall the flaws were there. Thibs let a lot slide by winning games because of talent. Let the game come to you, read the game, and no real defensive rotations all year. I kept saying we did not see real defense all year since early Indiana game. No offensoeve system just talent playing well. It all came back to haunt us.

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[F N 11]

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Agenda mongers lie...but the numbers don't lie.

There was multiple stretches he played well with bench. Him and Brunson are liabilities. If I had to guess Kat would be the one to go. I think Giannis is on the table he’s been walking around NyC it’s too obvious. I could see Kat dominating us for years too bc we didn’t know how to use him.

[god shammgod]

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[Iron Mantis]

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Agenda mongers lie...but the numbers don't lie.

There was multiple stretches he played well with bench. Him and Brunson are liabilities. If I had to guess Kat would be the one to go. I think Giannis is on the table he’s been walking around NyC it’s too obvious. I could see Kat dominating us for years too bc we didn’t know how to use him.

How do we get Giannis without blowing up our team?

Think we have the assets or are the Bucks willing to pull a Nico Harrison?

[MrDollarBills]

Yea that’s the other part of why Denver won a title… Joker n Murray’s 2-man game is amazing. So between that, Joker being better than KAT overall, and their coaching (Malone is a better coach than Thibs, just because he’s an old white guy that plays shorter rotations doesn’t mean he’s the same lol), it got the job done.

If Thibs consistently sticks with the adjustments he made in the PO starting day 1… switch heavy defense, playing 9-10 guys every night so our guys aren’t dead this time of year (I think a lot of the TO’s were just mental fatigue), and Jalen n KAT work on developing a 2-man game, then we could win. Gotta work on that transition defense too and shoot more 3’s.

I think Leon, Wes, Rick, and co gotta talk to Tom about adding some modern wrinkles to his game plan. Longer rotations. More emphasis on shooting the deep ball. 3 point defense.

These are things that can be corrected.

It's okay to need help. There's no shame in that.

Like yeah, I had a lot of concerns with what Tom did this year. But we got to the conference finals. He's not getting fired. So I think the entire organization from the front office down to the 15th man need to come together to figure out what works, what doesn't, and what can be made better.

I hope he’s receptive to it. Scary cuz even Dolan said Thibs wouldn’t listen to him about the minutes lol. We’re really not asking for a lot, that’s what’s so frustrating. But let’s hope for the best..

Yeah I hope so.

Us fans can't be the only one who sees this stuff. Internally they gotta work on making this better.

[MrDollarBills]

Yea that’s the other part of why Denver won a title… Joker n Murray’s 2-man game is amazing. So between that, Joker being better than KAT overall, and their coaching (Malone is a better coach than Thibs, just because he’s an old white guy that plays shorter rotations doesn’t mean he’s the same lol), it got the job done.

If Thibs consistently sticks with the adjustments he made in the PO starting day 1… switch heavy defense, playing 9-10 guys every night so our guys aren’t dead this time of year (I think a lot of the TO’s were just mental fatigue), and Jalen n KAT work on developing a 2-man game, then we could win. Gotta work on that transition defense too and shoot more 3’s.

I think Leon, Wes, Rick, and co gotta talk to Tom about adding some modern wrinkles to his game plan. Longer rotations. More emphasis on shooting the deep ball. 3 point defense.

These are things that can be corrected.

It's okay to need help. There's no shame in that.

Like yeah, I had a lot of concerns with what Tom did this year. But we got to the conference finals. He's not getting fired. So I think the entire organization from the front office down to the 15th man need to come together to figure out what works, what doesn't, and what can be made better.

If a 67 year-old 13 year head coach needs to be coached on how to coach....it may be time for a change.

I mean it's either that or firing the guy after an ECF appearance. It would be a divisive move.

Personally yeah, I'd wanna lean towards another direction because our offense and defensive philosophy needs to change. We need to play an actual rotation and develop a reliable bench. But objectively speaking, they're not gonna fire him after this. Next season is another story.

But we absolutely cannot approach next season doing the same thing that got us exposed versus Indiana.

Deuce is right.

[MrDollarBills]

Biggest ones are obviously if KAT and Brunson can coexist enough to truly win it all and if Thibs is the right coach

i believe the new starting lineup with mitch ended the post season positive. but to me, there's still too many holes to fill defensively and our two main guys don't even play well together offensively to overcome that.

The starting lineup looked much better with Mitch, and KAT looks good with the bench units. Robinson/KAT had a 105 defensive rating and +4.4 net rating. There might be something there. I would say we would be going to game 7 if we started the series with that lineup.

But yea, Brunson/KAT just never looked totally in sync offensively together. Do they just not fit, is it coaching, chemistry?

We have to run a different system. That's first and foremost. Something that maximizes not only those two but everyone else around them.

The ball has gotta move.

[MrDollarBills]

i know you need to do what you do here, but gregg popovich would strongly disagree with you on this one. he would argue that the humility, openmindedness, and adaptability kept him in the game.

And Thibs has none of those characteristics....

And I do not believe at 67 years old that popovich needed the president of basketball operations or team owner to teach him how to coach.

Its all just homer delusion, people claiming a roster of soon to be 30 year olds -- most now with injury history have "lots of room for improvement"

Improvement involves changing the way that we play. None of these guys are old.

[Fury]

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Agenda mongers lie...but the numbers don't lie.

There was multiple stretches he played well with bench. Him and Brunson are liabilities. If I had to guess Kat would be the one to go. I think Giannis is on the table he’s been walking around NyC it’s too obvious. I could see Kat dominating us for years too bc we didn’t know how to use him.

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[Fury]

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We need to keep him and use him as a 25 min backup that goes all out. He would be the best weapon in the NBA. And all we’d need to do is play even the other 23 mins.

Though I guess he could start, but just don’t overuse him.

[mpharris36]

Do his teammates who are complaining to the press about him also having an agenda ?

I just have to find out more information because what teammate/teammates are doing the complaining?

That is not something Brunson would do to the media. He even was extremely complimentary of KAT in the post game.

So who was it? Hart? Better not be dude was getting beat back door and turning the ball over all series.

Maybe it was Mikal and OG since they have to do much of the defensive work to make up for KAt and Brunson.

Doesn't sound like Mitch. He doesn't want to spend any time talking to the media.

I wouldn't think any bench player is prominent enough to talk.

Clearly we saw him going rogue a lot but isn't that on the coaching to correct that. You call a timeout point out his mistakes and correct them. And if they continue you take him out?

With all that said he still posted our best plus/minus in regular season and playoffs so he keeps **** up but they win his minutes?

Coaches talk too

That certainly would be interesting. Because the FO and coaching staff has pretty much been alignment outside of maybe a Cam Reddish type move. But they typically look out for Thibs when it comes to bring in guys he wants.

Do you think it comes to a head where this offseason they are basically picking between Thibs or KAT? Because if KAT is truly going rogue and the coaching staff (thibs) is fed up with it what choice do they have if they back Thibs?

Or does the FO buy into the metrics to say KAT was our most productive player last year even with his defensive short comings?

Fascinating offseason coming up.

[8516knicks]

I just have to find out more information because what teammate/teammates are doing the complaining?

That is not something Brunson would do to the media. He even was extremely complimentary of KAT in the post game.

So who was it? Hart? Better not be dude was getting beat back door and turning the ball over all series.

Maybe it was Mikal and OG since they have to do much of the defensive work to make up for KAt and Brunson.

Doesn't sound like Mitch. He doesn't want to spend any time talking to the media.

I wouldn't think any bench player is prominent enough to talk.

Clearly we saw him going rogue a lot but isn't that on the coaching to correct that. You call a timeout point out his mistakes and correct them. And if they continue you take him out?

With all that said he still posted our best plus/minus in regular season and playoffs so he keeps **** up but they win his minutes?

Coaches talk too

That certainly would be interesting. Because the FO and coaching staff has pretty much been alignment outside of maybe a Cam Reddish type move. But they typically look out for Thibs when it comes to bring in guys he wants.

Do you think it comes to a head where this offseason they are basically picking between Thibs or KAT? Because if KAT is truly going rogue and the coaching staff (thibs) is fed up with it what choice do they have if they back Thibs?

Or does the FO buy into the metrics to say KAT was our most productive player last year even with his defensive short comings?

Fascinating offseason coming up.

if the plus/minus stats were relatively close each game that would be one thing-- but if they're a great game or two followed by a lousy game or two, that might lead the FO to a different conclusion. $50M for an on again/off again player is a LOT.

Anyone who saw last game has doubts about KAT. Either his injuries were way underplayed and his time should have been severely limited when it became apparent he just didn't have it (chucking and missing 3s and putrid D) -- or talk of his "just not getting with the program," despite multiple players-only meetings, is troubling.