Hamsterdam (Ex-players, s***posts, beef, etc.) Continued

[god shammgod]

Well the majority of those 6 picks went in the Mikal trade and I was very much against it.

This has barely anything to do with the KAT trade, if it's the KAT trade we're assessing.

Mikal didn't make All-Star, All-NBA, All-Defense and the impact metrics don't like him. The opposite of KAT. I think you can tell where the offseason went wrong.

but you're using team results to assess kat vs randle. so you have to factor in the picks. as we didn't just do player for player trades. even in the kat trade another quality nba player and a pick were included. it's really not clear that we're any better off.

And as I mentioned I think the team was worse off by losing Hartenstein and getting Mikal. So we were at a deficit talent-wise compared to last year before the KAT trade even went down.

I think the upgrade from Randle and Divo to KAT is one of the main reasons we were even able to win 50 games to begin with.

Listen I know you're big on common sense which is something I always appreciated about your posts.

I personally think it's common sense that getting - literally, not theoretically - an All-Star, All-NBA big who impact metrics paint favorably and who can play center (unlike Randle) when we had no center to start the year was an upgrade. You don't even need the team results to come to that conclusion, but that they were positive sort of puts a ribbon on the discussion imo, regardless of the external noise.

you could have gotten an ihart replacement for a lot less than 6 picks though

and all their playoff metrics are similar this year. in fact i think randle has the slight edge in efg, ts etc

i personally wouldn't have wanted to commit long term to either. and i don't care who's better really. both have different liabilities that would concern me. my only argument is i don't see any conclusive evidence that this team is better than last year. maybe that's a just mikal problem or maybe not.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

but you're using team results to assess kat vs randle. so you have to factor in the picks. as we didn't just do player for player trades. even in the kat trade another quality nba player and a pick were included. it's really not clear that we're any better off.

And as I mentioned I think the team was worse off by losing Hartenstein and getting Mikal. So we were at a deficit talent-wise compared to last year before the KAT trade even went down.

I think the upgrade from Randle and Divo to KAT is one of the main reasons we were even able to win 50 games to begin with.

Listen I know you're big on common sense which is something I always appreciated about your posts.

I personally think it's common sense that getting - literally, not theoretically - an All-Star, All-NBA big who impact metrics paint favorably and who can play center (unlike Randle) when we had no center to start the year was an upgrade. You don't even need the team results to come to that conclusion, but that they were positive sort of puts a ribbon on the discussion imo, regardless of the external noise.

you could have gotten an ihart replacement for a lot less than 6 picks though

and all their playoff metrics are similar this year. in fact i think randle has the slight edge in efg, ts etc

i personally wouldn't have wanted to commit long term to either. and i don't care who's better really. both have different liabilities that would concern me. my only argument is i don't see any conclusive evidence that this team is better than last year. maybe that's a just mikal problem or maybe not.

Randle went against 2 teams without centers, his numbers in this playoff run were always fraudulent to anyone who just looked at the teams. When faced with the prospect of having to score over a roadblock defender & a shot blocker, he reverted right back to the quitter he has always been.




When adversity came to town, he was there with his hands on his knees watching. When he couldn't post up for 8 seconds and back down a defender without a center to help, life came at him too quick. Ain't no way a 5 pt game in a 2 point loss isn't sticking, 5 points, benched for the majority of their run in the 4th.

[Chanel Bomber]

but you're using team results to assess kat vs randle. so you have to factor in the picks. as we didn't just do player for player trades. even in the kat trade another quality nba player and a pick were included. it's really not clear that we're any better off.

And as I mentioned I think the team was worse off by losing Hartenstein and getting Mikal. So we were at a deficit talent-wise compared to last year before the KAT trade even went down.

I think the upgrade from Randle and Divo to KAT is one of the main reasons we were even able to win 50 games to begin with.

Listen I know you're big on common sense which is something I always appreciated about your posts.

I personally think it's common sense that getting - literally, not theoretically - an All-Star, All-NBA big who impact metrics paint favorably and who can play center (unlike Randle) when we had no center to start the year was an upgrade. You don't even need the team results to come to that conclusion, but that they were positive sort of puts a ribbon on the discussion imo, regardless of the external noise.

you could have gotten an ihart replacement for a lot less than 6 picks though

and all their playoff metrics are similar this year. in fact i think randle has the slight edge in efg, ts etc

i personally wouldn't have wanted to commit long term to either. and i don't care who's better really. both have different liabilities that would concern me. my only argument is i don't see any conclusive evidence that this team is better than last year. maybe that's a just mikal problem or maybe not.

Yeah but 5 of those 6 picks were thrown in the Mikal deal, so you could've invested in a potential iHart replacement (though centers of his quality don't grow on trees) and still have had the possibility of trading for Towns.

But those trades didn't go down in concert. The KAT trade happened months after the Mikal trade. So after they moved all those picks for Mikal (a mistake for me), trading Randle and Divo for Towns was a no-brainer imo.

efg and ts are advanced scoring stats, not impact metrics. But there's no denying Randle played well for large periods of the postseason. Towns did as well. He's one of very few players in the last 20 years to average 20-11 on >59 TS% in a single playoff run. The others are basically all NBA legends.

I don't think this year's team is necessarily better than last year's at full strength either. But iHart's departure was massive and required a pivot. It left a huge void behind.

Last year's team without iHart, and without Mitch to start the season would've struggled to stay above .500 in my opinion.

[god shammgod]

the mavs got daniel gafford for 1 okc first for 2024 which was damn near a 2nd (26th pick in the draft. i think it was originally ours). even if you think that he's only 80 percent of ihart that would have been good enough to hold us over. anyway. what's done is done. they'll have to figure out how to fix this team with limited assets to do so.

[god shammgod]

if you really think about it, the knicks should have traded ihart before last year's playoffs if the likelihood was he wasn't gonna get retained. it was a poor use of assets to let him walk.

[Chanel Bomber]

the mavs got daniel gafford for 1 okc first for 2024 which was damn near a 2nd. even if you think that he's only 80 percent of ihart that would have been good enough to hold us over. anyway. what's done is done. they'll have to figure out how to fix this team with limited assets to do so.

The KAT trade saved our season after we made the Mikal trade.

Of course you can revisit the offseason entirely and holistically and make a case for not trading for Towns.

If we had traded 5 firsts for Towns, I'd have said it's an awful trade. But we didn't trade 5 firsts for Towns, we traded Randle, DiVincenzo and a middling first. The two are not the same.

If you'd offered Randle, Divo and that first for Mikal, the Nets would've laughed at you. And Mikal is half the player that Towns is.

The KAT trade was an opportunistic trade, that made the most out of a bad situation.

And the reason we can't get Giannis or another game-changer now (or even your replacement center) isn't the Towns deal. It's the Mikal deal.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

the mavs got daniel gafford for 1 okc first for 2024 which was damn near a 2nd (26th pick in the draft. i think it was originally ours). even if you think that he's only 80 percent of ihart that would have been good enough to hold us over. anyway. what's done is done. they'll have to figure out how to fix this team with limited assets to do so.

Gafford only played 57 games this season, so we'd have been starting Precious for a quarter of the season, since Sims was also traded.


We have our pick next year, we could always just tank

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Also, we're getting off-topic here, Randle finished with 17ppg and 5rpg against the Thunder, he had 6pts in game 2, and 5 pts in game 4.

It's a lot different when you have to post up with a center on the weakside, huh?

[robillionaire]

That's not saying much. Pacers' D is atrocious and the quicker you score, the quicker they score twice. That's the whole point to their offense.
Scoring enough to win games is the complacency we're stuck in. It's the fallacy we told ourselves earlier in the season to let us sleep at night. "Well, we can definitely out score people, so D is whatever." Not good enough.

Their defense has not been atrocious this series. Nesmith has Brunson shook.

Individual D is not good team D. D'ing up a stagnate offense that doesn't know how to swing the ball doesn't mean you have good D. D'ing up an ISO heavy set is not good D. Being allowed to play physical is not good D. Playing full court press is not good D, it's wear down D. Knicks after 2 freakin' series not understanding Pacers' game plan on JB is the problem. Full court, physicality. SGA is going to average 15+ FTs a game.

I think the ultimate proof that it’s our defense that’s the problem is that in the lone game that we won we held them to 100 points and scored 106 points ourselves meaning we got stops and played at our pace and didn’t even need to score much to win whereas when we scored 135 pts and 121 pts which should be enough to win against anyone we lost each game. Scoring more points didn’t get it done for us getting stops did

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Their defense has not been atrocious this series. Nesmith has Brunson shook.

Individual D is not good team D. D'ing up a stagnate offense that doesn't know how to swing the ball doesn't mean you have good D. D'ing up an ISO heavy set is not good D. Being allowed to play physical is not good D. Playing full court press is not good D, it's wear down D. Knicks after 2 freakin' series not understanding Pacers' game plan on JB is the problem. Full court, physicality. SGA is going to average 15+ FTs a game.

I think the ultimate proof that it’s our defense that’s the problem is that in the lone game that we won we held them to 100 points and scored 106 points ourselves meaning we got stops and played at our pace and didn’t even need to score much to win whereas when we scored 135 pts and 121 pts which should be enough to win against anyone we lost each game. Scoring more points didn’t get it done for us getting stops did

Game 4 we played at their pace for some unknown reason, the first three games were played at our pace, but the last one was a 104 pace which is an unwinnable game for us. I don't understand how nobody told them to slow it down, the Josh turnovers, the Mikal quick shots, that was a game the Pacers thrive in.

[Clyde_Style]

KAT >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WTF that guy's name is you were all talking about. was it Dubious Fanduel? Stollen Handles? Luscious Jackson?

[Enzo954]

Randle -28 last night
Towns +26 tonight

A few in here still sticking with the narrative that we lost the trade or the trade was an even swap.....

[Clyde_Style]

Randle -28 last night
Towns +26 tonight

A few in here still sticking with the narrative that we lost the trade or the trade was an even swap.....

Watch on YouTube

[Guano]

you don't know (or need to know) the details and specifics that factor into actions outside your own profile.




don't let spartacus sweep you up in a rico.

no more public discussion and GT derailing over it.

I would, respectfully, disagree. We should know what behavior is off limits and the details matter. This sounds a little fascisty.

“We will discipline our members for our - the moderators - own reasons and we don’t need to explain any of it to you.”

That’s a bunch or horse shyt.

I’m boycotting tomorrow’s game on this thread because this crap. How dare you talk to me like that? I know you wouldn’t do it to my face. Go fuq yourself.

so, for the rest of you.

wingo chose to make a spectacle of this situation. some of you followed and helped him. he knows if he has a question about a suspension he could PM. he also knows from experience that there is user information in your profiles we don't generally discuss publicly. things like how many times you've been warned, suspended, length, severity. etc. all those things factor into mod decisions. none of it is arbitrary. and all of it is volunteer work so we can have a decent place to post.

some actions are non-starters. yes, even for popular posters. a lot goes into the decisions. none of it is done the court of public opinion like wingo tried to have. but hey.

moderating is generally a thankless role. some days more thankless than others.

and no, you don't openly try to play the moderators because you don't agree.

shts wack

you said to drop it yet I keep seeing your name in my mentions and addressing me further on some authoritarian bullcht. If you want it dropped drop it.

[Jeff Van Gully]

I would, respectfully, disagree. We should know what behavior is off limits and the details matter. This sounds a little fascisty.

“We will discipline our members for our - the moderators - own reasons and we don’t need to explain any of it to you.”

That’s a bunch or horse shyt.

I’m boycotting tomorrow’s game on this thread because this crap. How dare you talk to me like that? I know you wouldn’t do it to my face. Go fuq yourself.

so, for the rest of you.

wingo chose to make a spectacle of this situation. some of you followed and helped him. he knows if he has a question about a suspension he could PM. he also knows from experience that there is user information in your profiles we don't generally discuss publicly. things like how many times you've been warned, suspended, length, severity. etc. all those things factor into mod decisions. none of it is arbitrary. and all of it is volunteer work so we can have a decent place to post.

some actions are non-starters. yes, even for popular posters. a lot goes into the decisions. none of it is done the court of public opinion like wingo tried to have. but hey.

moderating is generally a thankless role. some days more thankless than others.

and no, you don't openly try to play the moderators because you don't agree.

shts wack

you said to drop it yet I keep see your name in my mentions and addressing me further on some authoritain bullcht. If you want it dropped drop it.

this is not about you specifically. “the rest of you” meant everyone. you’ve taken this all on personally for some reason.

and, yes. i needed to address what wingo said. you so happened to be in the quotes. i take it i’m the only one getting your don’t @ me chest out talk.

you don’t have to like mod decisions on individual member actions. but they’re not matters of general discussion and you will have to find a way to respect them somehow.

ironically, the existence of this very thread should be plenty evidence of the extent to which we don’t want to ban/suspend people. but some can’t control themselves no matter what.

[Adelheid]

there are some few things that Randle has that Towns doesnt have, but aside from those, Towns is a clear upgrade. I will just leave it at that

Towns can certainly improve on things in the offseason, now that he is playing for his hometown and fandom team. He should strive harder to be better

[rajajackal]

this the finals thread now?

[Capn'O]

Most people here agree, yet they're still somehow here after posting homophobic images and just overall doing the same stuff they've been doing for 3+ years now. I mean they had to get their own thread created because they couldn't stop mentioning former players. I just don't understand it, they must have some dirt on the mods at this point. Only explanation, especially when more long time standing posters have gotten banned for much much less.

Taking this post to Hamsterdam which, it should be clear to you now, was not just meant for one poster. I'm keeping this in public as I think some of this response will be informative to other posters in how to best interact with the team. But also because it started public and when you're on the team you can't really defend yourself here without deepening the issue. In my retirement leisure however...



Dude, when you file a report you need to give the mod team a minute to cook. These indicting attacks and PMs on the mod team do nothing but prolong action because then they have to address them in addition to considering the reported posts etc. The above is a board violation of "backseat moderating" which could, and given the nature of the attacks probably should, get _you_ dinged. Same with firing back at the offender (derailment and often personal attacks), where mods then have to look at the composite of actions instead of just the instigator, assuming the instigator is even the reported post in question.

With that, a response can't happen immediately. Once the report is filed, a mod needs to be on the forum to see it. From there, if a mod thinks it requires greater action than we can administer (we can only ban up to 12 hrs on our own), we bring it to the team, bring it to Howard, and wait on his availability to take action. Then we have to deal with blowback on the board often including multiple PMs sent to our entire team, where we have to discuss who sent what to whom and ensure we're responding in cohesion. In total, each incident can amount to literally hours of work per mod. We're not on here 24/7 and we don't always have hours of time at our disposal.



It was a PM chain from you that was the culminating instance that led to me throwing in the towel as a mod. My daughter, who has severe anxiety, and I had woken up at 430 in the morning to fly back east to visit our nephew for the first time. We ended up missing our flight and had to rebook on a multi-stop flight plan that landed us at midnight, meaning we didn't get to bed until about 2am. So almost a full day in transit. So partway through the trek I log in and see a bunch of reports and go to the threads and find that both sides have made posts that warrant action and it's like - do I spend my time in the airport ignoring my exhausted, stressed daughter as we go through this tough day to clean up the thread and then deal with the aftermath... or not. Then when I'm finally up in the morning and able to spend a little time on this I open my PMs to an indicting, personal PM like the message above from you and it's like... why am I doing this. I'm not getting paid. The hours and hours I put in gaining support for this thread and trying to clean up the forum afterwards still lead to that kind of disrespect accusing me of being paid off or dirty somehow. So I didn't. There was a second (third?) PM that I didn't even open. I went and spent time with my brother, met my nephew, and went about my vacation day.

That wasn't the first straw by any means but it was the last straw and I decided I wasn't going to do it anymore. Like in law enforcement, mods spend 95% of our time on like 5% of the posters who are allegedly part of this community. Grown ass men who get into unceasing squabbles over crap posted on a basketball message board and have to call in the po po to handle it while the rest of the community dwindles, largely in part to that dynamic. Like... just file the report and stop engaging.


From there, give these mods time to cook and if you do have to touch base, do it with respect that they're dealing with this **** when they can. Don't give 'em any reason to look at your actions and if you have to blow off steam... copy and paste that **** over here where by and large mods won't touch it.



This thread should be poppin', frankly. A huge percentage of the posts I've seen lately belong here, if anywhere.

[Capn'O]

Funny thing is, Melo was ripping on me for advocating for Day'Ron Sharpe and Goga... when I was doing so to find cheap iHart replacement fits next to Randle

Oh wellsky.

[Clyde_Style]

Most people here agree, yet they're still somehow here after posting homophobic images and just overall doing the same stuff they've been doing for 3+ years now. I mean they had to get their own thread created because they couldn't stop mentioning former players. I just don't understand it, they must have some dirt on the mods at this point. Only explanation, especially when more long time standing posters have gotten banned for much much less.

Taking this post to Hamsterdam which, it should be clear to you now, was not just meant for one poster. I'm keeping this in public as I think some of this response will be informative to other posters in how to best interact with the team. But also because it started public and when you're on the team you can't really defend yourself here without deepening the issue. In my retirement leisure however...



Dude, when you file a report you need to give the mod team a minute to cook. These indicting attacks and PMs on the mod team do nothing but prolong action because then they have to address them in addition to considering the reported posts etc. The above is a board violation of "backseat moderating" which could, and given the nature of the attacks probably should, get _you_ dinged. Same with firing back at the offender (derailment and often personal attacks), where mods then have to look at the composite of actions instead of just the instigator, assuming the instigator is even the reported post in question.

With that, a response can't happen immediately. Once the report is filed, a mod needs to be on the forum to see it. From there, if a mod thinks it requires greater action than we can administer (we can only ban up to 12 hrs on our own), we bring it to the team, bring it to Howard, and wait on his availability to take action. Then we have to deal with blowback on the board often including multiple PMs sent to our entire team, where we have to discuss who sent what to whom and ensure we're responding in cohesion. In total, each incident can amount to literally hours of work per mod. We're not on here 24/7 and we don't always have hours of time at our disposal.



It was a PM chain from you that was the culminating instance that led to me throwing in the towel as a mod. My daughter, who has severe anxiety, and I had woken up at 430 in the morning to fly back east to visit our nephew for the first time. We ended up missing our flight and had to rebook on a multi-stop flight plan that landed us at midnight, meaning we didn't get to bed until about 2am. So almost a full day in transit. So partway through the trek I log in and see a bunch of reports and go to the threads and find that both sides have made posts that warrant action and it's like - do I spend my time in the airport ignoring my exhausted, stressed daughter as we go through this tough day to clean up the thread and then deal with the aftermath... or not. Then when I'm finally up in the morning and able to spend a little time on this I open my PMs to an indicting, personal PM like the message above from you and it's like... why am I doing this. I'm not getting paid. The hours and hours I put in gaining support for this thread and trying to clean up the forum afterwards still lead to that kind of disrespect accusing me of being paid off or dirty somehow. So I didn't. There was a second (third?) PM that I didn't even open. I went and spent time with my brother, met my nephew, and went about my vacation day.

That wasn't the first straw by any means but it was the last straw and I decided I wasn't going to do it anymore. Like in law enforcement, mods spend 95% of our time on like 5% of the posters who are allegedly part of this community. Grown ass men who get into unceasing squabbles over crap posted on a basketball message board and have to call in the po po to handle it while the rest of the community dwindles, largely in part to that dynamic. Like... just file the report and stop engaging.


From there, give these mods time to cook and if you do have to touch base, do it with respect that they're dealing with this **** when they can. Don't give 'em any reason to look at your actions and if you have to blow off steam... copy and paste that **** over here where by and large mods won't touch it.



This thread should be poppin', frankly. A huge percentage of the posts I've seen lately belong here, if anywhere.

You did an amazing job and left the forum better than when you started modding.

Personally, I'd like to thank you for your steadiness and reasonable handling of lots and lots of BS, a good portion of which I was at the epicenter of. I saw an uptick in conflicts today after our season ended and felt sad to see it because the off-season can be even worse to moderate than the season itself. I shouldn't feel bad as I'm retiring to lurker and fair weather fan as I cannot commit time to sports any longer, but I hope your legacy is this place is better than before, because I think you really did make a difference doing a largely thankless task.

I think the mod team is moving things in the right direction. Your explanation should help some others realize it takes real time out of your days to handle any dust-ups in the forum.

Peace Out