Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest"/KD too

[bboyskinnylegs]

what does the asking price for KD even look like right now? I think Trae or LaMelo are more likely targets due to their age, though I don't see how you build a winning team with either.

[RoteSchroder]

Yeah, the man who brought a championships in recent times needs to be stopped.

Masai Ujiri needs to be stopped. He was lucky to get Kawhi and Gasol and the surrounding players worked well, but this ain't 2019 - we have been a b2b lotto team.

The man as he gets older cuts so many corners and is now compounding mistakes. We already have a broken non-relevant Brandon Ingram, we don't need more mistakes like this.

remember when Siakam was an irrelevant player that only a couple teams wanted?

SAC and GSW are probably regretting not getting Siakam. What are these untouchable role players, Keegan Murray and Kuminga, doing for them now? Diddly squat.

Siakam without a 3 point shot was not as valuable. It's really unfortunate that he only started working on his three pt shooting just as the trade deadline was coming up..Masai didn't really believe in him either.

Also, look at OG's games per year prior to this season: 43, 48, 67, 50

[anotherhomer]

what does the asking price for KD even look like right now? I think Trae or LaMelo are more likely targets due to their age, though I don't see how you build a winning team with either.

KD makes a lot of sense

[WuTang_CMB]

Yeah, the man who brought a championships in recent times needs to be stopped.

Masai Ujiri needs to be stopped. He was lucky to get Kawhi and Gasol and the surrounding players worked well, but this ain't 2019 - we have been a b2b lotto team.

The man as he gets older cuts so many corners and is now compounding mistakes. We already have a broken non-relevant Brandon Ingram, we don't need more mistakes like this.

remember when Siakam was an irrelevant player that only a couple teams wanted?

SAC and GSW are probably regretting not getting Siakam. What are these untouchable role players, Keegan Murray and Kuminga, doing for them now? Diddly squat.

Siakam without a 3 point shot was not as valuable. It's really unfortunate that he only started working on his three pt shooting just as the trade deadline was coming up..Masai didn't really believe in him either.

Also, look at OG's games per year prior to this season: 43, 48, 67, 50

Pacers offence have masterfully made him fit.. stretch big, high tempo .. and he's executing really well

[sidsid]

what does the asking price for KD even look like right now? I think Trae or LaMelo are more likely targets due to their age, though I don't see how you build a winning team with either.

If they don't want to lose Booker, it could simply be retooling around role players.

That's a Jak/RJ/Ochai type deal for him. Maybe Grady for Richards in a seperate trade to get us a C.

They fill the starting lineup and wait out Beal's deal. Jak and RJs deal also align if they want to make a cap space play after that year.

That's betting a lot on Jakobe/Shead/Mogbo on our side, but we keep all our draft assets.

[djsunyc]

imho, i think kd is going to have a very fast fall from grace.

[Michael Bradley]

I could see Masai considering Giannis to be his “white whale” and going all in (including future picks). Whether they have enough or Giannis even wants to play in Toronto is a different story.

[Tor_Raps]

No clue why people are mentioning KD. We do not need to put ourselves in a position to win it all in the next year or so. That is meant for teams who are actually already good.

[RoteSchroder]

what does the asking price for KD even look like right now? I think Trae or LaMelo are more likely targets due to their age, though I don't see how you build a winning team with either.

I'm for keeping our picks and just rearranging our SG depth by trading with Orlando, but there could be other scenarios:

1. Giannis
Bucks don't have their own picks, so they would want to compete + get picks at the same time AND they're going for blood.

It would take Scottie, RJ, Gradey + 3-4 1sts + swaps. We would need to stay healthy and get some veteran ring chasers otherwise we're f'd.

2. Zion + Missi
Not gonna happen, but it would be funny if we try to get Zion for cheap. Considering we need to keep IQ for the spacing, we would likely need to trade RJ + Poeltl..we take back Zion, Missi. I don't like Zion at C alongside Scottie tbh.

3. Garland / Jarrett Allen
some sort of three team trade where we give up RJ and IQ and get Garland and Allen?

4. Boston blows it up?
they give up on one of Tatum/Brown

5. Miami blows it up
Bam available

[Brinbe]

Everyone is continually looking at this backwards. It's not a matter of assets. The way things work in the league is that the best players pretty much choose where they want to play as featured performers. It's kinda like top level world football at this point. You have to convince players to believe in your project and to want to come here. That was where they failed with Dame and Kawhi too in terms of extending here. But if you're a top 10-15 player in the league and you had a choice of where to play, how many would chose to be here long-term? That continues to be an issue.

No crap, Masai would love Giannis to be a Raptor, but it's a matter of convincing Giannis that this would be the best destination for him that also allows him to compete for a ring.

Does that seem likely? Giannis already had that choice in free agency and he elected to remain in Milwaukee.

Obviously drafting a 1A guy is the optimum solution but that's complete luck. So trading for those stars under contract is the plan now as it was with Kawhi (and thankfully that paid off) as they have no choice (unless they wanna sit out/force a move away) but you have to be at a point in terms of roster-building where it makes sense to go all-in for that guy (I think you can make the case where it now makes sense in terms of asset consolidation plus lacking a clear top-level guy) but that player also has to want to be here long-term as the face of the project and again, that remains the issue.

Ingram wanted to be here and that's part of how that trade was able to happen.

But can Masai convince a bigger star?

[RoteSchroder]

Yeah, the man who brought a championships in recent times needs to be stopped.

remember when Siakam was an irrelevant player that only a couple teams wanted?

SAC and GSW are probably regretting not getting Siakam. What are these untouchable role players, Keegan Murray and Kuminga, doing for them now? Diddly squat.

Siakam without a 3 point shot was not as valuable. It's really unfortunate that he only started working on his three pt shooting just as the trade deadline was coming up..Masai didn't really believe in him either.

Also, look at OG's games per year prior to this season: 43, 48, 67, 50

Pacers offence have masterfully made him fit.. stretch big, high tempo .. and he's executing really well

Siakam wasn't even that bad with the Raptors. He had a TS% of 60% in his last season here. 60.2% after the trade deadline with the Pacers. 59.9 TS% this year. Raptors also went 3-1 with Poeltl/Siakam/Scottie/RJ/IQ..with a 5 point loss to SAC..so they were pretty competitive despite having no bench depth.

Problem was that Siakam was horrendously bad at three point shooting at the beginning of the year...and that can't happen when you have Poeltl, Scottie, Dennis Schroder on the floor.

In interviews, he said he was working on that part of his game pretty hard and started improving there towards the trade deadline. In his last 9 games with us, he was 54.1% from 3 on 4.1 3PA/game. Before that, he was 24.1% on 3.6 3PA/game.

With Indiana, he's a 38-39% three point shooter. His 3 point shooting improvement came from individual progress, not due to Indiana's schemes. He would have had the same improvement in 3's if he stayed in Toronto.

[MoneyBall]

Lol at people suggesting we should go for Durant. Our window for winning a championship wouldbe like 18 months.

[WuTang_CMB]

remember when Siakam was an irrelevant player that only a couple teams wanted?

SAC and GSW are probably regretting not getting Siakam. What are these untouchable role players, Keegan Murray and Kuminga, doing for them now? Diddly squat.

Siakam without a 3 point shot was not as valuable. It's really unfortunate that he only started working on his three pt shooting just as the trade deadline was coming up..Masai didn't really believe in him either.

Also, look at OG's games per year prior to this season: 43, 48, 67, 50

Pacers offence have masterfully made him fit.. stretch big, high tempo .. and he's executing really well

Siakam wasn't even that bad with the Raptors. He had a TS% of 60% in his last season here. 60.2% after the trade deadline with the Pacers. 59.9 TS% this year. Raptors also went 3-1 with Poeltl/Siakam/Scottie/RJ/IQ..with a 5 point loss to SAC..so they were pretty competitive despite having no bench depth.

Problem was that Siakam was horrendously bad at three point shooting at the beginning of the year...and that can't happen when you have Poeltl, Scottie, Dennis Schroder on the floor.

In interviews, he said he was working on that part of his game pretty hard and started improving there towards the trade deadline. In his last 9 games with us, he was 54.1% from 3 on 4.1 3PA/game. Before that, he was 24.1% on 3.6 3PA/game.

With Indiana, he's a 38-39% three point shooter.

His 3pt% was bad @ a 31% clip but that season was a throwaway since the relationship was tarnished. It jumped to 38% once he got more pace and spacing. This season the fit has been even better

[RoteSchroder]

Pacers offence have masterfully made him fit.. stretch big, high tempo .. and he's executing really well

Siakam wasn't even that bad with the Raptors. He had a TS% of 60% in his last season here. 60.2% after the trade deadline with the Pacers. 59.9 TS% this year. Raptors also went 3-1 with Poeltl/Siakam/Scottie/RJ/IQ..with a 5 point loss to SAC..so they were pretty competitive despite having no bench depth.

Problem was that Siakam was horrendously bad at three point shooting at the beginning of the year...and that can't happen when you have Poeltl, Scottie, Dennis Schroder on the floor.

In interviews, he said he was working on that part of his game pretty hard and started improving there towards the trade deadline. In his last 9 games with us, he was 54.1% from 3 on 4.1 3PA/game. Before that, he was 24.1% on 3.6 3PA/game.

With Indiana, he's a 38-39% three point shooter.

His 3pt% was bad @ a 31% clip but that season was a throwaway since the relationship was tarnished. It jumped to 38% once he got more pace and spacing. This season the fit has been even better

No, it was from individual improvement. He said so himself and the stats reflect it. 24% to start off vs 54% to end it in Toronto.

[WuTang_CMB]

Doug

I don’t know if it will happen but I do know there is mutual interest between Antetokounmpo and the Raptors. The wild card is the cost.

But I also think the Raptors are uniquely placed to make an attractive offer that won’t ruin their franchise or roster. I would make the case that a logjam at the wings makes them deep enough that if they had to pay even two out of Gradey Dick, Ochai Agbaji, Ja’Kobe Walter, RJ Barrett, Jonathan Mogbo would still leave enough to fill out a pretty good team with promising young players still developing. Plus, they have all their picks, so giving a first-rounder every year for, say, four years, leaves enough.

The question is if you think the remaining players will develop, just as that group of Pascal Siakam, Fred VanVleet, OG Anunoby and Jakob Poeltl did. Not to that level — that’s a historic young group no one’s come close to matching — but if it can come close, that’s pretty darn good.
Again, the odds of doing a Giannis deal are long but the remnants of paying a steep price isn’t too bad.

[MoneyBall]

I sense Masai's definition of "Big fish" might be more modest than some of the names being thrown around. Like Brandon Ingram level talent who's youngish (24-28), underrated and under valued. Maybe that's a guy like Markkanen, or Garland, or Bane. What about Jamal Murray? Denver could look to shake things up after their playoff exit. I like Colin Sexton a lot. He's not a traditional point guard, but given our roster construction and playing style, our point guards are going to play off ball a lot. Sexton is a certified shot creator who can get into the paint at will, and has really improved his shooting from deep.

In terms of fit, Markkanen is a good match next to Scottie. Still kind of a big fish, but not Giannis level.

He's kinda not, because he needs a PG to get him the ball, and then we have Ingram, who is going to have to be hidden on the corner shooters.

You kind of left out the part that Markkenen is one of the best shooting forward-centers in the league. If we're gonna play Scottie, Mogbo, and Poeltl substantial minutes going forward, we need an elite shooting big.

[WuTang_CMB]

Siakam wasn't even that bad with the Raptors. He had a TS% of 60% in his last season here. 60.2% after the trade deadline with the Pacers. 59.9 TS% this year. Raptors also went 3-1 with Poeltl/Siakam/Scottie/RJ/IQ..with a 5 point loss to SAC..so they were pretty competitive despite having no bench depth.

Problem was that Siakam was horrendously bad at three point shooting at the beginning of the year...and that can't happen when you have Poeltl, Scottie, Dennis Schroder on the floor.

In interviews, he said he was working on that part of his game pretty hard and started improving there towards the trade deadline. In his last 9 games with us, he was 54.1% from 3 on 4.1 3PA/game. Before that, he was 24.1% on 3.6 3PA/game.

With Indiana, he's a 38-39% three point shooter.

His 3pt% was bad @ a 31% clip but that season was a throwaway since the relationship was tarnished. It jumped to 38% once he got more pace and spacing. This season the fit has been even better

No, it was from individual improvement. He said so himself and the stats reflect it. 24% to start off vs 54% to end it in Toronto.

Nah. He was shooting 34 ands 31% the two previous years. That 54% was just a Darko ramp up cuz he was going to get traded, plus it was a small sample. The major adjustment was moving to a better spacing team, with a true lead initiator in Hali and with better offensive tempo, thus why he's beeb at 38% with the Pacers.

[MoneyBall]

Doug

I don’t know if it will happen but I do know there is mutual interest between Antetokounmpo and the Raptors. The wild card is the cost.

But I also think the Raptors are uniquely placed to make an attractive offer that won’t ruin their franchise or roster. I would make the case that a logjam at the wings makes them deep enough that if they had to pay even two out of Gradey Dick, Ochai Agbaji, Ja’Kobe Walter, RJ Barrett, Jonathan Mogbo would still leave enough to fill out a pretty good team with promising young players still developing. Plus, they have all their picks, so giving a first-rounder every year for, say, four years, leaves enough.

The question is if you think the remaining players will develop, just as that group of Pascal Siakam, Fred VanVleet, OG Anunoby and Jakob Poeltl did. Not to that level — that’s a historic young group no one’s come close to matching — but if it can come close, that’s pretty darn good.
Again, the odds of doing a Giannis deal are long but the remnants of paying a steep price isn’t too bad.

Truer words have never been written.

[anotherhomer]

i would just go all-in. since ed rogers wants to fire ujiri anyways

[Los_29]

Hopefully Barnes is available for this big fish. He’s our best trade piece.