Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest"/KD too

[RoteSchroder]

Yeah, the man who brought a championships in recent times needs to be stopped.

remember when Siakam was an irrelevant player that only a couple teams wanted?

SAC and GSW are probably regretting not getting Siakam. What are these untouchable role players, Keegan Murray and Kuminga, doing for them now? Diddly squat.

Siakam without a 3 point shot was not as valuable. It's really unfortunate that he only started working on his three pt shooting just as the trade deadline was coming up..Masai didn't really believe in him either.

Also, look at OG's games per year prior to this season: 43, 48, 67, 50

This is just not really true. Siakam’s 3pt shooting is not all that much different than it was here. He might have improved slightly. He has key 3 things going for him now:

1) he has a great passing PG to get him better looks

2) he’s taking zero self created 3’s on the Pacers. At any given year with the Raptors 10-15% of his 3’s were after 3+ dribbles. On the Pacers that number is down to 2%.

3) he’s taking about 33% of his 3pa from the corner with the Pacers. The past 4 years with the Raptors that’s been around 23%.

Siakam is largely just taking much easier 3’s on the Pacers.

that's what the other company man has been telling me

Catch and shoot 3's:
Toronto 2022-2023: 34.1%
Toronto first 30 games: 24.3%
Toronto last 9 games: 46.7%
Indiana 2023-2024: 38.3%
Indiana 2024-2025: 39.2%


Closest defender (wide open):
Toronto 2022-2023: 34.3%
Toronto first 30 games: 27.4%
Toronto last 9 games: 64.3%
Indiana 2023-2024: 38%
Indiana 2024-2025: 42.4%


Corner 3's:
Toronto 2022-2023: 34.4%
Toronto first 30 games: 33.3%
Toronto last 9 games: 66.7%
Indiana 2023-2024: 45.5%
Indiana 2024-2025: 40.2%

Essentially ~5-10% improvements on these easy looks. 10-15% improvements if teams are looking at his play based on the beginning of 2023-2024.

A 5% increase can be the difference between a good shooter and a mediocre/bad shooter.

[sidsid]

Everyone is continually looking at this backwards. It's not a matter of assets. The way things work in the league is that the best players pretty much choose where they want to play as featured performers. It's kinda like top level world football at this point. You have to convince players to believe in your project and to want to come here. That was where they failed with Dame and Kawhi too in terms of extending here. But if you're a top 10-15 player in the league and you had a choice of where to play, how many would chose to be here long-term? That continues to be an issue.

No crap, Masai would love Giannis to be a Raptor, but it's a matter of convincing Giannis that this would be the best destination for him that also allows him to compete for a ring.

Does that seem likely? Giannis already had that choice in free agency and he elected to remain in Milwaukee.

Obviously drafting a 1A guy is the optimum solution but that's complete luck. So trading for those stars under contract is the plan now as it was with Kawhi (and thankfully that paid off) as they have no choice (unless they wanna sit out/force a move away) but you have to be at a point in terms of roster-building where it makes sense to go all-in for that guy (I think you can make the case where it now makes sense in terms of asset consolidation plus lacking a clear top-level guy) but that player also has to want to be here long-term as the face of the project and again, that remains the issue.

Ingram wanted to be here and that's part of how that trade was able to happen.

But can Masai convince a bigger star?

I think our star hunting plans revolve around 2 things:

1) does the star actually want to come here (this really only applies to tier 1 stars like Giannis)

2) what is Barnes value around the league? I really have no idea. Last year wasn’t great but he might still be viewed at young, center piece-ish value

If Barnes’ value is still high then I think we can close the gap on some of the teams with larger asset bases. If Barnes value has taken a hit (now on max deal, scoring looks shakey) then I think we get outbid if we try to go big game hunting. If a star wants to come here that would be great but I’m still at the “believe it when I see it” point.

If we want to keep Barnes (or his value is now just “ok”) I don’t see how we get into the trading for a star business.

Very true. I think the sheen of potential can wear off real quick. Getting that 1A guy should always be the priority if they can make it happen and Scottie is either the ticket to getting that person or the best argument for why this is a situation worth investing is.

This is the problem in our retool philosophy. Scottie is the only answer to both. With this year's lottery likely our last chance to change that dynamic.

We have to either trade for an undiscovered gem/draft a piece that becomes that extra value to make the superstar path work.

Or hope SGA just wants to walk over here like Kawhi to LA in like 5 years. The Embiid and Zion types will be available though, if we want them.

[Scase]

Is there a deal where:

Bucks get their swap and pick back from NO in 2026 and 27 plus get Zion, and some 1st from Raps.

NOP get Barnes for those picks/swap and wipe hands of Zion.

Raps get Giannis

Bucks get to tank if they want but also get Zion as a "draw" for fans. And can choose to walk away from him anytime given how his contract is. Or maybe his value gets rebuilt and they are able to move him for more assets later.

NOP gets the guarantee of Barnes instead of a possibility of picks and essentially walk away from Zion.

Raps obviously upgrade

This would be the core of the deal and obviously there might be other additions...maybe Dick to NOP for example.

I think the recent allegations + his general history with motivation and weight would probably put the kibosh on this. That said, I would be on that like white on rice, thing is, the salaries don't match so we'd have to throw someone else onto the pile.

[JB7]

I think our star hunting plans revolve around 2 things:

1) does the star actually want to come here (this really only applies to tier 1 stars like Giannis)

2) what is Barnes value around the league? I really have no idea. Last year wasn’t great but he might still be viewed at young, center piece-ish value

If Barnes’ value is still high then I think we can close the gap on some of the teams with larger asset bases. If Barnes value has taken a hit (now on max deal, scoring looks shakey) then I think we get outbid if we try to go big game hunting. If a star wants to come here that would be great but I’m still at the “believe it when I see it” point.

If we want to keep Barnes (or his value is now just “ok”) I don’t see how we get into the trading for a star business.

Barnes value is not as high as Cade or Mobley, but I think it can definitely rebound in the right situation. Plus, he is not making 30% of the cap like those two for the next 5 seasons.

Barnes is clearly still viewed as the best player on the Raps. And the moment he is offered in the deal, it significantly narrows the competition from other teams. Then the Cavs, if interested need to offer Mobley, Rockets Amen, etc.

Keep in mind, when Masai made the Kawhi deal, he was sending out the player viewed as the best player on the Raps. Now he had given the Lowry/Derozan duo multiple playoff runs to prove whether they could make it happen. Maybe this time, he just doesn’t have that kind of patience.

It makes sense to offer Barnes. Giannis is not a short term option like Kawhi. And having a legit starting lineup around him would matter. With Barnes in the deal, they only need to offer smaller contracts like Gradey and Ochai to get to Giannis’s salary. Also, players more ready to contribute, and also young like Barnes would be appealing to the Bucks. For the Raps, they keep their starting lineup intact, just swapping Barnes for Giannis, and retain a cheap bench in Mogbo, Battle, Walter and Shead to stay below the 1st apron. If the lineup works, this team is locked in financially for 2 years. If it doesn’t, they have pieces to trade.

It kinda is though, Giannis has 2 years + a PO left before he's a UFA, now not quite the same as an expiring Kawhi, but not that far off either. Do you trade Scottie and a ton of other stuff if you have that big question mark in 2-ish years?

If we were a lot closer to the 2017 team I can say that is 100% a yes, but with 25 and 30 win seasons the last 2 years, and tons of question marks with the fit and more importantly, the health of the team it becomes a lot murkier. I'd still say yeah you trade for him, but there's more risk with that trade than there was with Kawhi.

The DD/KL pairing was a known quantity, especially DD. This would be us giving up a player that is 23 and has a bunch of potential still, plus the untold number of picks. If Giannis decides to bolt in FA, then you owe the Bucks a bunch of picks when your team would likely be miserably bad.

It's not at all about getting Giannis here, but rather keeping him here. Definitely risky.

If they are trading for Giannis, I think it is about the end of Giannis’s career. I don’t think Giannis is the type to want to move around a lot. If he was that interested in chasing rings, he would have left the Bucks instead of pushing for the Dame trade.

What Masai probably learned from the DD/KL situation was don’t wait so long. If a known superstar is available, and they can acquire him and maintain a team, do it.

Also, I wouldn’t use the team’s performance over the last two seasons as proof of anything. They were legitimately tanking both seasons, to build up the asset base they now have to be in play for Giannis this summer.

Also, the core left around Giannis is still young (BI, RJ & IQ), so if it works, they can run it out there for the next 4-5 years. And they would still have Mogbo, Walter and Shead off the bench, plus most of their future picks.

[WuTang_CMB]

Is there a deal where:

Bucks get their swap and pick back from NO in 2026 and 27 plus get Zion, and some 1st from Raps.

NOP get Barnes for those picks/swap and wipe hands of Zion.

Raps get Giannis

Bucks get to tank if they want but also get Zion as a "draw" for fans. And can choose to walk away from him anytime given how his contract is. Or maybe his value gets rebuilt and they are able to move him for more assets later.

NOP gets the guarantee of Barnes instead of a possibility of picks and essentially walk away from Zion.

Raps obviously upgrade

This would be the core of the deal and obviously there might be other additions...maybe Dick to NOP for example.

If Horst deals Giannis in a deal where TOR gets him and he doesn't get Barnes, he should pack his bags and work at Cinnabon with Saul Goodman

[WuTang_CMB]

Yeah, the man who brought a championships in recent times needs to be stopped.

remember when Siakam was an irrelevant player that only a couple teams wanted?

SAC and GSW are probably regretting not getting Siakam. What are these untouchable role players, Keegan Murray and Kuminga, doing for them now? Diddly squat.

Siakam without a 3 point shot was not as valuable. It's really unfortunate that he only started working on his three pt shooting just as the trade deadline was coming up..Masai didn't really believe in him either.

Also, look at OG's games per year prior to this season: 43, 48, 67, 50

This is just not really true. Siakam’s 3pt shooting is not all that much different than it was here. He might have improved slightly. He has key 3 things going for him now:

1) he has a great passing PG to get him better looks

2) he’s taking zero self created 3’s on the Pacers. At any given year with the Raptors 10-15% of his 3’s were after 3+ dribbles. On the Pacers that number is down to 2%.

3) he’s taking about 33% of his 3pa from the corner with the Pacers. The past 4 years with the Raptors that’s been around 23%.

Siakam is largely just taking much easier 3’s on the Pacers.

This guy is confused

[Asif16]

I wish Miami would blow it up because I'd love to be in on Bam

I also wonder about Embiid. African connection. Embiid can't feel good about going to war with a Washed Paul George. Philly has no direction

[Tripod]

Is there a deal where:

Bucks get their swap and pick back from NO in 2026 and 27 plus get Zion, and some 1st from Raps.

NOP get Barnes for those picks/swap and wipe hands of Zion.

Raps get Giannis

Bucks get to tank if they want but also get Zion as a "draw" for fans. And can choose to walk away from him anytime given how his contract is. Or maybe his value gets rebuilt and they are able to move him for more assets later.

NOP gets the guarantee of Barnes instead of a possibility of picks and essentially walk away from Zion.

Raps obviously upgrade

This would be the core of the deal and obviously there might be other additions...maybe Dick to NOP for example.

If Horst deals Giannis in a deal where TOR gets him and he doesn't get Barnes, he should pack his bags and work at Cinnabon with Saul Goodman

Well my thinking is that them getting control of their drafts back the next 2 years have a lot of value to them. Plus other picks. And of course Zion is the wildcard. Use him for a year to sell jerseys, keep fans coming to games, try and re-hab his value.

[mdenny]

Is there a deal where:

Bucks get their swap and pick back from NO in 2026 and 27 plus get Zion, and some 1st from Raps.

NOP get Barnes for those picks/swap and wipe hands of Zion.

Raps get Giannis

Bucks get to tank if they want but also get Zion as a "draw" for fans. And can choose to walk away from him anytime given how his contract is. Or maybe his value gets rebuilt and they are able to move him for more assets later.

NOP gets the guarantee of Barnes instead of a possibility of picks and essentially walk away from Zion.

Raps obviously upgrade

This would be the core of the deal and obviously there might be other additions...maybe Dick to NOP for example.

This is extremely well thought out. Great idea. The best ingredient for a tanking team is to get an overpaid star who's entire career is in question. It allows them to get to a salary floor without impacting the tank and most importantly, getting their own picks back.

I can easily see the bucks willing to curl up and die for a few seasons after an extended period of success. So it doesn't really matter to them to give zion a place to crash and burn.

It would be a dream come true for NO to turn Zion into scotty.

I'm not being hyperbolic.....I'm extremely impressed with this idea. Nice one.

Only problem I see is that there's nothing particularly special about the Raptors that makes them the only third team in the NO/Bucks idea. OKC could easily do the same thing with Chet as the centerpiece. Or Houston with Sengun.

But I wouldn't be surprised if this is exactly what happens.....with about 3 or 4 teams vying for the raptor role you outlined.

One thing that was pointed out on a podcast I watched recently....the future Houston picks are actually alot more valuable than the future OKC picks. The latter of which are all destined to mid to late. Houston owns alot more likely lotto picks in their cache (mostly bc their big trade was with phoenix).

That being said....chet is the better prospect.

So it seems like there's 3 variables for who would get the third team role:

1 scotty vs sengun vs chet
2 Houston picks are better than TO and OkC
3 where would giannis prefer to play? Because he may not extend next summer if traded to a team against his will....and a top young player + filler + all those picks isn't worth only 2 years of giannis.

The other thing I'd suggest is NO has to add in more than just the bucks picks. If they're magically turning zion into one of scotty/chet/sengun....they definitely need to throw in more of their own futures.

No way you get off zion's contract for that cheap WHILE adding a top young player. I'm talking.....2 or 3 of their OWN FRPs in addition to the Bucks picks.

So the bucks package would be zion + salary filler + their own picks back + some raptor picks + some NO picks.

Now we're talking about a somewhat reasonable package for giannis. Some of that is for giannis and some of it will be for taking zion off everyone else's hands. Probably ends up being 6 to 8 picks all together.

[Tripod]

I wish Miami would blow it up because I'd love to be in on Bam

I also wonder about Embiid. African connection. Embiid can't feel good about going to war with a Washed Paul George. Philly has no direction

Sure they do.

Pray Embiid gets healthy
Pray PG gets healthy
Maxey and McCain are 2 great/good guards
#3 possibly adds another great young piece

[WuTang_CMB]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[sidsid]

Barnes value is not as high as Cade or Mobley, but I think it can definitely rebound in the right situation. Plus, he is not making 30% of the cap like those two for the next 5 seasons.

Barnes is clearly still viewed as the best player on the Raps. And the moment he is offered in the deal, it significantly narrows the competition from other teams. Then the Cavs, if interested need to offer Mobley, Rockets Amen, etc.

Keep in mind, when Masai made the Kawhi deal, he was sending out the player viewed as the best player on the Raps. Now he had given the Lowry/Derozan duo multiple playoff runs to prove whether they could make it happen. Maybe this time, he just doesn’t have that kind of patience.

It makes sense to offer Barnes. Giannis is not a short term option like Kawhi. And having a legit starting lineup around him would matter. With Barnes in the deal, they only need to offer smaller contracts like Gradey and Ochai to get to Giannis’s salary. Also, players more ready to contribute, and also young like Barnes would be appealing to the Bucks. For the Raps, they keep their starting lineup intact, just swapping Barnes for Giannis, and retain a cheap bench in Mogbo, Battle, Walter and Shead to stay below the 1st apron. If the lineup works, this team is locked in financially for 2 years. If it doesn’t, they have pieces to trade.

It kinda is though, Giannis has 2 years + a PO left before he's a UFA, now not quite the same as an expiring Kawhi, but not that far off either. Do you trade Scottie and a ton of other stuff if you have that big question mark in 2-ish years?

If we were a lot closer to the 2017 team I can say that is 100% a yes, but with 25 and 30 win seasons the last 2 years, and tons of question marks with the fit and more importantly, the health of the team it becomes a lot murkier. I'd still say yeah you trade for him, but there's more risk with that trade than there was with Kawhi.

The DD/KL pairing was a known quantity, especially DD. This would be us giving up a player that is 23 and has a bunch of potential still, plus the untold number of picks. If Giannis decides to bolt in FA, then you owe the Bucks a bunch of picks when your team would likely be miserably bad.

It's not at all about getting Giannis here, but rather keeping him here. Definitely risky.

If they are trading for Giannis, I think it is about the end of Giannis’s career. I don’t think Giannis is the type to want to move around a lot. If he was that interested in chasing rings, he would have left the Bucks instead of pushing for the Dame trade.

What Masai probably learned from the DD/KL situation was don’t wait so long. If a known superstar is available, and they can acquire him and maintain a team, do it.

Also, I wouldn’t use the team’s performance over the last two seasons as proof of anything. They were legitimately tanking both seasons, to build up the asset base they now have to be in play for Giannis this summer.

Also, the core left around Giannis is still young (BI, RJ & IQ), so if it works, they can run it out there for the next 4-5 years. And they would still have Mogbo, Walter and Shead off the bench, plus most of their future picks.

Giannis would be bucking every trend if he stayed longer than his contract. Durant walked after multiple chips next to a hall of famer. Same for LeBron, lasted 4 years with the Heat (with LA being his retirement home).

Mercenary hunting doesn't lead to much loyalty. And we have nowhere near the cushy environments/running mates those teams had.

Likely scenario is Giannis gives you his 2 years and then hits FA where many teams are lining up cap space for him to walk into.

Any trades you make have to factor in that reality. Keep your 2027 and beyond picks if you can.

[Tripod]

Is there a deal where:

Bucks get their swap and pick back from NO in 2026 and 27 plus get Zion, and some 1st from Raps.

NOP get Barnes for those picks/swap and wipe hands of Zion.

Raps get Giannis

Bucks get to tank if they want but also get Zion as a "draw" for fans. And can choose to walk away from him anytime given how his contract is. Or maybe his value gets rebuilt and they are able to move him for more assets later.

NOP gets the guarantee of Barnes instead of a possibility of picks and essentially walk away from Zion.

Raps obviously upgrade

This would be the core of the deal and obviously there might be other additions...maybe Dick to NOP for example.

This is extremely well thought out. Great idea. The best ingredient for a tanking team is to get an overpaid star who's entire career is in question. It allows them to get to a salary floor without impacting the tank and most importantly, getting their own picks back.

I can easily see the bucks willing to curl up and die for a few seasons after an extended period of success. So it doesn't really matter to them to give zion a place to crash and burn.

It would be a dream come true for NO to turn Zion into scotty.

I'm not being hyperbolic.....I'm extremely impressed with this idea. Nice one.

Only problem I see is that there's nothing particularly special about the Raptors that makes them the only third team in the NO/Bucks idea. OKC could easily do the same thing with Chet as the centerpiece. Or Houston with Sengun.

But I wouldn't be surprised if this is exactly what happens.....with about 3 or 4 teams vying for the raptor role you outlined.

One thing that was pointed out on a podcast I watched recently....the future Houston picks are actually alot more valuable than the future OKC picks. The latter of which are all destined to mid to late. Houston owns alot more likely lotto picks in their cache (mostly bc their big trade was with phoenix).

Appreciate the positive feedback...lol.

The "special" part of it being the Raps, is if Giannis tells the Bucks that's where he wants to go. Because like most everyone else, they dictate that.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

I wish Miami would blow it up because I'd love to be in on Bam

I also wonder about Embiid. African connection. Embiid can't feel good about going to war with a Washed Paul George. Philly has no direction

ya but you're dealing Pat Riley for one of his big name players who hasn't asked out.

[Raps in 4]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

I remember that time Scoop B broke that big story before anyone. This guy is credible.

[RoteSchroder]

remember when Siakam was an irrelevant player that only a couple teams wanted?

SAC and GSW are probably regretting not getting Siakam. What are these untouchable role players, Keegan Murray and Kuminga, doing for them now? Diddly squat.

Siakam without a 3 point shot was not as valuable. It's really unfortunate that he only started working on his three pt shooting just as the trade deadline was coming up..Masai didn't really believe in him either.

Also, look at OG's games per year prior to this season: 43, 48, 67, 50

This is just not really true. Siakam’s 3pt shooting is not all that much different than it was here. He might have improved slightly. He has key 3 things going for him now:

1) he has a great passing PG to get him better looks

2) he’s taking zero self created 3’s on the Pacers. At any given year with the Raptors 10-15% of his 3’s were after 3+ dribbles. On the Pacers that number is down to 2%.

3) he’s taking about 33% of his 3pa from the corner with the Pacers. The past 4 years with the Raptors that’s been around 23%.

Siakam is largely just taking much easier 3’s on the Pacers.

This guy is confused

Stats show 5-10% improvements in catch and shoot threes (no dribbles), corner 3's, and wide open shots. So the argument doesn't hold that it was just "easier looks".

NBA.com says after 3+ dribbles:
Toronto 2023-2024: 0.1 3PA/game (0.8% frequency)
Indiana 2023-2024: 0.1 3PA/game (0.5% frequency)
Indiana 2024-2025: 0.1 3PA/game (0.6% frequency)

Corner 3's per game:
Toronto 2023-2024: 29.1%
Indiana 2023-2024: 32.2%
Indiana 2024-2025: 29.1%

Catch and shoot 3's:
Toronto 2022-2023: 34.1%
Toronto first 30 games: 24.3%
Toronto last 9 games: 46.7%
Indiana 2023-2024: 38.3%
Indiana 2024-2025: 39.2%


Closest defender (wide open):
Toronto 2022-2023: 34.3%
Toronto first 30 games: 27.4%
Toronto last 9 games: 64.3%
Indiana 2023-2024: 38%
Indiana 2024-2025: 42.4%


Corner 3's:
Toronto 2022-2023: 34.4%
Toronto first 30 games: 33.3%
Toronto last 9 games: 66.7%
Indiana 2023-2024: 45.5%
Indiana 2024-2025: 40.2%

Keep up the lies though. Getting a consistent three means he needs to work on it. He admitted it to being a weakness that season and that he started working on it. Not sure why you think you can speak for him or why I should listen to a realgmer over Siakam on what he was practicing on.

[JB7]

It kinda is though, Giannis has 2 years + a PO left before he's a UFA, now not quite the same as an expiring Kawhi, but not that far off either. Do you trade Scottie and a ton of other stuff if you have that big question mark in 2-ish years?

If we were a lot closer to the 2017 team I can say that is 100% a yes, but with 25 and 30 win seasons the last 2 years, and tons of question marks with the fit and more importantly, the health of the team it becomes a lot murkier. I'd still say yeah you trade for him, but there's more risk with that trade than there was with Kawhi.

The DD/KL pairing was a known quantity, especially DD. This would be us giving up a player that is 23 and has a bunch of potential still, plus the untold number of picks. If Giannis decides to bolt in FA, then you owe the Bucks a bunch of picks when your team would likely be miserably bad.

It's not at all about getting Giannis here, but rather keeping him here. Definitely risky.

If they are trading for Giannis, I think it is about the end of Giannis’s career. I don’t think Giannis is the type to want to move around a lot. If he was that interested in chasing rings, he would have left the Bucks instead of pushing for the Dame trade.

What Masai probably learned from the DD/KL situation was don’t wait so long. If a known superstar is available, and they can acquire him and maintain a team, do it.

Also, I wouldn’t use the team’s performance over the last two seasons as proof of anything. They were legitimately tanking both seasons, to build up the asset base they now have to be in play for Giannis this summer.

Also, the core left around Giannis is still young (BI, RJ & IQ), so if it works, they can run it out there for the next 4-5 years. And they would still have Mogbo, Walter and Shead off the bench, plus most of their future picks.

Giannis would be bucking every trend if he stayed longer than his contract. Durant walked after multiple chips next to a hall of famer. Same for LeBron, lasted 4 years with the Heat (with LA being his retirement home).

Mercenary hunting doesn't lead to much loyalty. And we have nowhere near the cushy environments/running mates those teams had.

Likely scenario is Giannis gives you his 2 years and then hits FA where many teams are lining up cap space for him to walk into.

Any trades you make have to factor in that reality. Keep your 2027 and beyond picks if you can.

I don’t think Giannis wants the legacy Durant has just built himself. It is a clear example of how jumping from team to team, and not producing results has just ruined Durant’s legacy late in his career. While he is viewed as one of the game’s great scorers, he is just not held in the same regard as Curry or Lebron. He would have done his legacy much more good if he just stayed with GSW.

Giannis is looking for a big market, where he can profit from his legacy. So that would mean trying to compete for a championship in the short term, and then living off that legacy for the remainder of his career.

[WuTang_CMB]

Keep up the lies though. Getting a consistent three means he needs to work on it. He admitted it to being a weakness that season and that he started working on it. Not sure why you think you can speak for him or why I should listen to a realgmer over Siakam on what he was practicing on.

Do you really think his shot improved for 9 games because he was working on it? Lol. The numbers are right there for you. He shot below 33% in his PREVIOUS 2 SEASONS mainly because he was a focal point of an offense with zero movement in one season and then the following year Darko had him doing nothing while Scottie was taking off. Since his time with the Pacers, the guy is hitting 38% because of a lead initiator in Hali and an offense that has been playing 7 second basketball.

[PushDaRock]

It kinda is though, Giannis has 2 years + a PO left before he's a UFA, now not quite the same as an expiring Kawhi, but not that far off either. Do you trade Scottie and a ton of other stuff if you have that big question mark in 2-ish years?

If we were a lot closer to the 2017 team I can say that is 100% a yes, but with 25 and 30 win seasons the last 2 years, and tons of question marks with the fit and more importantly, the health of the team it becomes a lot murkier. I'd still say yeah you trade for him, but there's more risk with that trade than there was with Kawhi.

The DD/KL pairing was a known quantity, especially DD. This would be us giving up a player that is 23 and has a bunch of potential still, plus the untold number of picks. If Giannis decides to bolt in FA, then you owe the Bucks a bunch of picks when your team would likely be miserably bad.

It's not at all about getting Giannis here, but rather keeping him here. Definitely risky.

If they are trading for Giannis, I think it is about the end of Giannis’s career. I don’t think Giannis is the type to want to move around a lot. If he was that interested in chasing rings, he would have left the Bucks instead of pushing for the Dame trade.

What Masai probably learned from the DD/KL situation was don’t wait so long. If a known superstar is available, and they can acquire him and maintain a team, do it.

Also, I wouldn’t use the team’s performance over the last two seasons as proof of anything. They were legitimately tanking both seasons, to build up the asset base they now have to be in play for Giannis this summer.

Also, the core left around Giannis is still young (BI, RJ & IQ), so if it works, they can run it out there for the next 4-5 years. And they would still have Mogbo, Walter and Shead off the bench, plus most of their future picks.

Giannis would be bucking every trend if he stayed longer than his contract. Durant walked after multiple chips next to a hall of famer. Same for LeBron, lasted 4 years with the Heat (with LA being his retirement home).

Mercenary hunting doesn't lead to much loyalty. And we have nowhere near the cushy environments/running mates those teams had.

Likely scenario is Giannis gives you his 2 years and then hits FA where many teams are lining up cap space for him to walk into.

Any trades you make have to factor in that reality. Keep your 2027 and beyond picks if you can.

The days of teams opening up a max slot for premiere FA's are over. The last big FA signing was Kawhi and that was 6 years ago.

It's just become unnecessary when players can just secure the bag without risking injury and then just ask for a trade and have a lot of influence over where they end up.

[RoteSchroder]

Keep up the lies though. Getting a consistent three means he needs to work on it. He admitted it to being a weakness that season and that he started working on it. Not sure why you think you can speak for him or why I should listen to a realgmer over Siakam on what he was practicing on.

Do you really think his shot improved for 9 games because he was working on it? Lol. The numbers are right there for you. He shot below 33% in his PREVIOUS 2 SEASONS mainly because he was a focal point of an offense with zero movement in one season and then the following year Darko had him doing nothing while Scottie was taking off. Since his time with the Pacers, the guy is hitting 38% because of a lead initiator in Hali and an offense that has been playing 7 second basketball.

yes, the numbers are all there. Pretty sure I broke them down for you, improvements across the board on all the easy shots in BOTH Toronto and Indiana

9 games are a small sample size, but he suddenly shoots up after he claims he's working on his shot. He regresses to a mean higher than earlier in the season on his non-self-created shots.

Your claim is that his shooting didn't improve despite statistical improvements across the board on easy shots. That he didn't work on his shot despite him saying he did or that there was no benefit to him putting in the extra work there, despite improving while he was still in Toronto and immediately after when he got to Indiana. Makes sense.