2025 NBA Draft (2)

Black Mage · Post #681 » by **Black Mage** » Mon Jun 2, 2025 2:15 pm

Mik317 wrote:I think everyone we pick probably starts off as a bench guy and general rotation piece next season

all of this mocking guy into starting lineups and if they "fit" or not is kinda pointless. There is a chance our "big 3" are all gone in a year or two...hopefully its due to whoever we take at 3 being THAT GUY but more than likely simply it will be due to the new GM and coach wanting a clean slate lol.

I am not interested in moves that "help" for next season. Next season's high end outcome still relies on Biid not being broken, PG having more in the tank, and Maxey taking just another step and the depth being young athletes and not old corpses..nothing we do at 3 changes that in the short term. There is no move IMO that does.

I generally agree, but of all the prospects I think Bailey and Kon probably have the best shot at unseating Oubre or Edwards for the 3 spot. It might start in a bench roll, but within a month or so they could take over as a starter. Kon brings IQ and awareness that Kelly lacks. Bailey brings a much better catch and shoot and scoring profile than Kelly. Truth be told, I think Edwards is their plan at 3. Bailey does have the bonus that if PG goes down he can potentially play the 4 which none of the other prospects can do.

I don't see Kasper, Vj or Tre unseating Maxey or Grimes and I really don't think they should or could unseat McCain. This is why I keep harping on Bodner's "what helps us now" line of thinking. There are no "help now" guys after Flagg.

Black Mage · Post #682 » by **Black Mage** » Mon Jun 2, 2025 2:20 pm

Negrodamus wrote:Not to continue hammering home the Noa possibility, but what if he's measured at over 7'0" wingspan or is 6'10 without shoes? Last time he was measured, it appears he was 17 years old. Looks extremely long in gameplay. If we're in the 7'0" height in shoes and 7'0+ in wingspan, then things start to get interesting.

I might be mistaken, but don't these Euro guys who are still playing have to get measured prior to the draft? Same with Kon doing the strength and agility drills when he's healthy enough?

Definitely gets interesting. I think if Noa is the pick he'll be a bigger project than even the anti-Acer's think Ace is. If he's the pick it will tell us a lot about the team's thinking on Joel's health this year and going forward and that PG is likely a trade candidate by the deadline or by next offseason.

Negrodamus · Post #683 » by **Negrodamus** » Mon Jun 2, 2025 2:32 pm

Black Mage wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:Not to continue hammering home the Noa possibility, but what if he's measured at over 7'0" wingspan or is 6'10 without shoes? Last time he was measured, it appears he was 17 years old. Looks extremely long in gameplay. If we're in the 7'0" height in shoes and 7'0+ in wingspan, then things start to get interesting.

I might be mistaken, but don't these Euro guys who are still playing have to get measured prior to the draft? Same with Kon doing the strength and agility drills when he's healthy enough?

Definitely gets interesting. I think if Noa is the pick he'll be a bigger project than even the anti-Acer's think Ace is. If he's the pick it will tell us a lot about the team's thinking on Joel's health this year and going forward and that PG is likely a trade candidate by the deadline or by next offseason.

I'm going to stay away from the Ace aspect, but Noa's game actually lends to play now.

Watch on YouTube

He's played an NBA game already and held his own (was just under 18 years old here?). He's currently an off ball true PF who is clearly content with being the effort guy on the court. Grabs boards on both ends. Incredibly switchable on defense. Not sure he's a day one starter, but gives the upside of allowing Maxey and McCain on the court at the same time in the future since PG, Essengue, and Embiid are, theoretically for Embiid still, all long, great defenders.

I think a summer of bulking up could get him into the conversation as starter.

mjkvol · Post #684 » by **mjkvol** » Mon Jun 2, 2025 2:34 pm

Black Mage wrote:
76ciology wrote:If you just look at the numbers, VJ Edgecombe might make sense. But that’s exactly why you can’t rely on numbers alone.

What does VJ really bring that Rasheer Fleming can’t?

VJ’s main value lies in his stocks and rebounding.. but for a guard, I think those traits aren’t as valued as shotcreation and playmaking. One of his supposed strengths is playing bigger than his size on defense, but offensively, he doesn’t project have the skillset to atleast be a secondary shot creator or playmaker. He’s more of a catch and shoot, scoring off close outs, and transition finisher.

If that’s the case, why not just take a swing on Rasheer Fleming in the later rounds? Cedric Coward? Nique Clifford?

I think his best case comps are guys like Jrue Holiday or Derrick White.. very good 2 way guards who make a real impact on both ends. But even they lean more toward being high level 3&D guards than shot creators or playmakers.

Prime Jrue Holiday is exactly what this team could use next to Maxey. However, I don't see Edgecombe turning into Jrue and even if he did it's going to take a few years just as it did for Jrue.

I'm totally down for finding a way back into the first to get Fleming, Coward or Clifford. I just don't think Sixers will try b/c they need to keep money available to resign Grimes and make a play for Yabu. I'd be willing to sacrifice Yabu if it meant getting Fleming.

Fleming >>>>>> Yabu in a heartbeat.

Post #685 » by **Stanford** » Mon Jun 2, 2025 2:35 pm

I love a guy taking a strong stance on a player. I wish I had a guy in this draft! I didn't even Noa bout this Essengue guy until you brought him up.

mjkvol · Post #686 » by **mjkvol** » Mon Jun 2, 2025 2:36 pm

Black Mage wrote:
Mik317 wrote:I think everyone we pick probably starts off as a bench guy and general rotation piece next season

all of this mocking guy into starting lineups and if they "fit" or not is kinda pointless. There is a chance our "big 3" are all gone in a year or two...hopefully its due to whoever we take at 3 being THAT GUY but more than likely simply it will be due to the new GM and coach wanting a clean slate lol.

I am not interested in moves that "help" for next season. Next season's high end outcome still relies on Biid not being broken, PG having more in the tank, and Maxey taking just another step and the depth being young athletes and not old corpses..nothing we do at 3 changes that in the short term. There is no move IMO that does.

I generally agree, but of all the prospects I think Bailey and Kon probably have the best shot at unseating Oubre or Edwards for the 3 spot. It might start in a bench roll, but within a month or so they could take over as a starter. Kon brings IQ and awareness that Kelly lacks. Bailey brings a much better catch and shoot and scoring profile than Kelly. Truth be told, I think Edwards is their plan at 3. Bailey does have the bonus that if PG goes down he can potentially play the 4 which none of the other prospects can do.

I don't see Kasper, Vj or Tre unseating Maxey or Grimes and I really don't think they should or could unseat McCain. This is why I keep harping on Bodner's "what helps us now" line of thinking. There are no "help now" guys after Flagg.

Oubre, Gordon, and Drummond should be nothing more than deadline trade pieces at this point.

Jailblazers7 · Post #687 » by **Jailblazers7** » Mon Jun 2, 2025 2:55 pm

Stanford wrote:I love a guy taking a strong stance on a player. I wish I had a guy in this draft! I didn't even Noa bout this Essengue guy until you brought him up.

Booo *throws tomato*

Negrodamus · Post #688 » by **Negrodamus** » Mon Jun 2, 2025 2:59 pm

Noa at 17 had about the same lane agility (top 10) as Cooper Flagg: Noa was 10.66 vs Flagg 10.64

Standing vert was 27.25 which compares to Ace Bailey at 27.5
Max vert was 35.5 which was the same as Flagg
Hand width would be just outside top five at 10.25, same as Maluach
Standing reach was 9'3.25 which would have put him 4th largest at the combine.

I don't know if any of these have increased in the past year but he would have been firmly one of the best performers at the Combine this year.

76ciology · Post #689 » by **76ciology** » Mon Jun 2, 2025 3:20 pm

Stanford wrote:I love a guy taking a strong stance on a player. I wish I had a guy in this draft! I didn't even Noa bout this Essengue guy until you brought him up.

There’s no way that KAT Essengue

Black Mage · Post #690 » by **Black Mage** » Mon Jun 2, 2025 3:38 pm

Kolkmania wrote:Based on the numbers I completely understand the recent Coward hype. Big frame, big hands, gigantic wingspan and very promising indicators (+ 80% FT, 20~ish DRB%, decent FTr and BLK and STL%). Currently more of a play finisher on offense, but his scoring percentages in the post remind me of Butler and Leonard (including the high release point of his midrangers). He might have some sneaky high-level upside.

Dribbling/playmaking needs some serious work, but I can definitely see a path that allows him to slowly transition from a 3&D player to a higher usage role.

Generally I'm not really in favor of trading down, since we need to go for high upside swings in my opinion. However, I think that a potential path to All-Star level is just as reasonable for Coward as for VJ/Bailey given their downsides. So this is a serious candidate for me to trade down.

If a trade down were to happen the only move that would make sense to me is with the Nets is some form of package that brings back 8, their next pick and Cam Johnson. Using the 8 and late teens pick to land some combination of Clifford/Coward/Fleming (no particular order). Get a viable wing that can play now and still holds trade value down the line and two young athletic players to round out the rotation and grow from their second unit experience.

76ciology · Post #691 » by **76ciology** » Mon Jun 2, 2025 3:49 pm

[x]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=bJcUtOCSwzTqqyZgysWpbQ[/x]

So basically me, 1 week ago

Negrodamus · Post #692 » by **Negrodamus** » Mon Jun 2, 2025 3:50 pm

76ciology wrote:[x]

Read on Twitter
?s=46&t=bJcUtOCSwzTqqyZgysWpbQ[/x]

So basically me, 1 week ago

Boy they're speaking your language.

Post #693 » by **Stanford** » Mon Jun 2, 2025 3:55 pm

Just remember, Daryl Morey is a liar.

ProcessDoctor · Post #694 » by **ProcessDoctor** » Mon Jun 2, 2025 4:00 pm

Stanford wrote:I love a guy taking a strong stance on a player. I wish I had a guy in this draft! I didn't even Noa bout this Essengue guy until you brought him up.

You haven’t Noaticed my posts about him for weeks?

Iverson Armband · Post #695 » by **Iverson Armband** » Mon Jun 2, 2025 4:01 pm

76ciology wrote:[x]

Read on Twitter
?s=46&t=bJcUtOCSwzTqqyZgysWpbQ[/x]

So basically me, 1 week ago

Yeah, they pretty obviously should be considering Tre. Nice pull on Maluach though!

76ciology · Post #696 » by **76ciology** » Mon Jun 2, 2025 4:03 pm

Stanford wrote:Just remember, Daryl Morey is a liar.

If he’s bluffing, it could be a move to get non-Ace-believer teams to trade up.. possibly to flip the pick for Kneuppel or even Kasparas. But I don’t think he’d mind drafting either of them. It makes sense if he targets a high-upside player with a high floor at #3.. both guys can contribute right away and still have good upside. Morey even mentioned they’re considering the two timelines approach with this pick.

Tre Johnson:
Jazz (Jazz guys on X are high on him)

Maluach:
Wizards (pair with Sarr)
Pels (pair with Zion)
Raptors (Masai type)

Black Mage · Post #697 » by **Black Mage** » Mon Jun 2, 2025 4:09 pm

Spoiler:

I watched this video and would recommend that folks specifically watch from 1:08:30 minute marker. Texas is up 4 and Johnson shows all of the worst aspects of his game. First opponent offensive possession he stops watching his guy and just stands in the paint. His guy goes to the 3 pt line and a teammate sets an off ball screen in case Johnson realizes he's lost his man. Johnson does and then makes a lazy effort to go around the screen and Xavier drains a 3.

Next offensive possession for Texas, Johnson takes a bad deep 3 pt shot; watches it and doesn't track his man to leaks on a long rebound fast break. Only notices his man is racing down the court as the pass is thrown and then makes a weak effort to foul the guy as he goes up for a layup for an and 1.

Next offensive possession, Xavier hard denies him the ball and Texas PG waives him off and you can visibly see Johnson sulking and pouting that he didn't get the ball when he wanted it.

In total, Johnson allowed a 4 pt lead to become a 2 pt deficit bc of his bad awareness and defensive IQ/effort.

youngcrev · Post #698 » by **youngcrev** » Mon Jun 2, 2025 4:11 pm

VJ if we stay, Kon if we trade back, Dylan if we move up (obviously Coop isn't on the table).

I think VJ comes in right away and has an impact as a point of attack defender/defensive playmaker that can get his offensively playing off the stars of this team. Should also help with the rebounding. He's that blindside guy that rips Embiid for a fast break dunk. Also has the athletic profile to become an impact guy offensively if he can develop on ball, and based on year to year improvement, seems to have a strong work ethic to believe he could reach his ceiling.

Demonstrable work ethic is big with me right now. Give me a gym rat that's gonna be in there with Maxey everyday and create the right kind of culture around here.

Arsenal · Post #699 » by **Arsenal** » Mon Jun 2, 2025 4:12 pm

76ciology wrote:
Stanford wrote:Just remember, Daryl Morey is a liar.

If he’s bluffing, it could be a move to get non-Ace-believer teams to trade up.. possibly to flip the pick for Kneuppel or even Kasparas. But I don’t think he’d mind drafting either of them. It makes sense if he targets a high-upside player with a high floor at #3.. both guys can contribute right away and still have good upside. Morey even mentioned they’re considering the two timelines approach with this pick.

Tre Johnson:
Jazz (Jazz guys on X are high on him)

Maluach:
Wizards (pair with Sarr)
Pels (pair with Zion)
Raptors (Masai type)

The "two timelines" approach means not caring about contributing right away. It means prioritizing long-term upside, because the pieces are already in place (if healthy) to potentially compete now.

I don't see Morey caring at all about who can help immediately if that means discounting future impact.

Arsenal · Post #700 » by **Arsenal** » Mon Jun 2, 2025 4:15 pm

Aside from Flagg, Ace and Noa have the most upside in the entire class. We have to come out of the draft with one of them.