PF targets

[tmorgan]

Honestly, as of today, Naz Reid doesn’t feel like a better player than Tobias.

Yes, he’s younger, so there’s that, and he’s a better shooter, though not by a lot. He’s definitely a lesser defender as of today.

I like Naz, but don’t see the point of giving up assets for a guy that’s not an upgrade. He’s also not a center and we can’t play four bigs appropriate minutes, so someone has to go. It can’t be Duren unless we get another center. It won’t be Stew. And as I said, he’s not really a current upgrade over Tobias except the spacing, just a bit. So why, and how? Certainly not for Holland, that’s a poor use of assets.

[LaSheed]

Honestly, as of today, Naz Reid doesn’t feel like a better player than Tobias.

Yes, he’s younger, so there’s that, and he’s a better shooter, though not by a lot. He’s definitely a lesser defender as of today.

I like Naz, but don’t see the point of giving up assets for a guy that’s not an upgrade. He’s also not a center and we can’t play four bigs appropriate minutes, so someone has to go. It can’t be Duren unless we get another center. It won’t be Stew. And as I said, he’s not really a current upgrade over Tobias except the spacing, just a bit. So why, and how? Certainly not for Holland, that’s a poor use of assets.

Disagree. Naz is a better shooter & passer. Defense might give a nod to Tobias but I'm not to sure about that. Naz can put it on the floor. Rebounding is fairly close as well. I do love Tobias post up game though.

I don't think we have to give up any assets. Outside of us paying to dump Fontechhio of course.

[tmorgan]

Honestly, as of today, Naz Reid doesn’t feel like a better player than Tobias.

Yes, he’s younger, so there’s that, and he’s a better shooter, though not by a lot. He’s definitely a lesser defender as of today.

I like Naz, but don’t see the point of giving up assets for a guy that’s not an upgrade. He’s also not a center and we can’t play four bigs appropriate minutes, so someone has to go. It can’t be Duren unless we get another center. It won’t be Stew. And as I said, he’s not really a current upgrade over Tobias except the spacing, just a bit. So why, and how? Certainly not for Holland, that’s a poor use of assets.

Disagree. Naz is a better shooter & passer. Defense might give a nod to Tobias but I'm not to sure about that. Naz can put it on the floor. Rebounding is fairly close as well. I do love Tobias post up game though.

I don't think we have to give up any assets. Outside of us paying to dump Fontechhio of course.

I won’t go back more than four years, because it’ll heavily favor Tobias.

For the last four years, which are those much-maligned ones in Philly, Tobias has shot about 36.3% from three. Naz, same period, 37.2%. Granted, he had a great year two years ago when he was 6MotY, but this year he was only 3% better. I said “slightly” better, and I think that’s accurate. You say Naz can put it on the floor, but so can Tobias. Dunks this year — Tobias 56, Naz 25. Naz was a solid finisher this year (68% from 0-3 feet), but Tobias was awesome (77%). Harris has a really good nose for smart cuts, and Cade uses that well. The ‘better passer” part doesn’t show up in any numbers I see, either. In fact, this was the first year Naz really passed at all.

I just don’t see it. Tobias is bulkier and better on offense and defense down low as a result. Naz is a little quicker and probably has more perimeter gravity, but I don’t think it outweighs Tobias’ advantages elsewhere, even on our team. Two years from now he could very well be better, as Naz is about seven years younger. He’s definitely worth having, he’s a good player. But if we’re specifically trying to get better next year, any minutes Naz takes from Tobias aren’t really going to help much.

If we can maneuver enough to outright sign him, that’s fine. Problem is, he’s shown loyalty to Minnesota in the past, so I highly doubt he leaves of his own accord. They have cap issues to deal with, for sure, but I don’t think Reid will be a casualty of them. NAW might.

[Canadafan]

^^^^I'd say it's more about those 16 minutes Tobias is on the bench than the minutes Naz takes from him.

[MotownMadness]

So we need to dump Tek on Brooklyn or something.

Couldn’t we get our cap space up to around 27 mil that way?

[catari11]

Honestly, as of today, Naz Reid doesn’t feel like a better player than Tobias.

Yes, he’s younger, so there’s that, and he’s a better shooter, though not by a lot. He’s definitely a lesser defender as of today.

I like Naz, but don’t see the point of giving up assets for a guy that’s not an upgrade. He’s also not a center and we can’t play four bigs appropriate minutes, so someone has to go. It can’t be Duren unless we get another center. It won’t be Stew. And as I said, he’s not really a current upgrade over Tobias except the spacing, just a bit. So why, and how? Certainly not for Holland, that’s a poor use of assets.

I initially endorsed the Naz addition. However, after his subpar performance in the playoffs, I'm not so sure he's worth allocating major assets. One way or another Pistons must sign a youngish mobile power forward who is a reliable 3 and D player. Not sure who that is at this point.

[Crymson]

At this point in his career, Reid is not a difference maker and is best suited to be a combo big off the bench.

Minnesota can't really afford to lose him anyway, and the Pistons can't really afford to pay him.

[the_l_train]

At this point in his career, Reid is not a difference maker and is best suited to be a combo big off the bench.

Minnesota can't really afford to lose him anyway, and the Pistons can't really afford to pay him.

He was 6th man of the year pretty recently and yeah he had a rough playoff showing, but saying he is not a difference maker is harsh (and just wrong). “At this point of his career”…he is 25 lol.

Agreed that we cannot afford him, unless we have some other moves up our sleeve.

[LaSheed]

At this point in his career, Reid is not a difference maker and is best suited to be a combo big off the bench.

Minnesota can't really afford to lose him anyway, and the Pistons can't really afford to pay him.

He was 6th man of the year pretty recently and yeah he had a rough playoff showing, but saying he is not a difference maker is harsh (and just wrong). “At this point of his career”…he is 25 lol.

Agreed that we cannot afford him, unless we have some other moves up our sleeve.

I've been pounding the table for him and I'm not stopping now!!!

[Crymson]

He was 6th man of the year pretty recently and yeah he had a rough playoff showing, but saying he is not a difference maker is harsh (and just wrong).

Ironically, the time he spent in the starting lineup probably made the difference for him in winning 6MotY. That award means squat. It has regularly gone to players who don't make a big impact. As for Reid, he won it for averaging 13.5/5/1 and playing average defense. Is that a difference maker to you?

“At this point of his career”…he is 25 lol.

Yes... at this point in his career, versus later in it.

[the_l_train]

He was 6th man of the year pretty recently and yeah he had a rough playoff showing, but saying he is not a difference maker is harsh (and just wrong).

Ironically, the time he spent in the starting lineup probably made the difference for him in winning 6MotY. That award means squat. It has regularly gone to players who don't make a big impact. As for Reid, he won it for averaging 13.5/5/1 and playing average defense. Is that a difference maker to you?

“At this point of his career”…he is 25 lol.

Yes... at this point in his career, versus later in it.

Minnesota has played pretty damn good with him…and he is a major part of the rotation…so that makes him a “difference maker”.

Replace him with somebody who is not a difference maker (lets say Luka Garza for fun)…you think Minnesota gets to the West finals? See the difference? I’m not even the biggest fan of Naz, but come on man.

I do not think Naz is a great starting power forward. He’s a great stretch center, but we have a logjam at the 5 if we bring him in and don’t make other moves. Naz is still a better defender than Duren, and I’d rather pay a floor stretcher.

He makes Duren expendable, and I think we can get a solid PF if we are dangling him.

[Canadafan]

I'm back on the Bobby Portis train.
He can opt out. And sign and trade to us for Fontecchio and Sasser. We lose some of our cap space. The rest goes to Beasley. This would have been much easier if we didn't have to pay Cade more but oh well. Then we hope Shröder takes 8.8room exception.
If hardaway wants to come back for 10yrvets min of 4mil that's cool. Same goes for Reed if he wants the vets min for him, which is less than Hardaways.
I know Crymson said we have 16mil in cap, and I'd imagine he's correct but a few reputable guys in Twitter have said 19mil after the Cade contract. If it's 19 we can do all this and still give Beasley his MLE-equivalent money

[the_l_train]

I'm back on the Bobby Portis train.
He can opt out. And sign and trade to us for Fontecchio and Sasser. We lose some of our cap space. The rest goes to Beasley. This would have been much easier if we didn't have to pay Cade more but oh well. Then we hope Shröder takes 8.8room exception.
If hardaway wants to come back for 10yrvets min of 4mil that's cool. Same goes for Reed if he wants the vets min for him, which is less than Hardaways.
I know Crymson said we have 16mil in cap, and I'd imagine he's correct but a few reputable guys in Twitter have said 19mil after the Cade contract. If it's 19 we can do all this and still give Beasley his MLE-equivalent money

Agreed --- I think Portis can give you similar production as Naz at way less money. Portis more natural as a PF as well.

[Canadafan]

I'm back on the Bobby Portis train.
He can opt out. And sign and trade to us for Fontecchio and Sasser. We lose some of our cap space. The rest goes to Beasley. This would have been much easier if we didn't have to pay Cade more but oh well. Then we hope Shröder takes 8.8room exception.
If hardaway wants to come back for 10yrvets min of 4mil that's cool. Same goes for Reed if he wants the vets min for him, which is less than Hardaways.
I know Crymson said we have 16mil in cap, and I'd imagine he's correct but a few reputable guys in Twitter have said 19mil after the Cade contract. If it's 19 we can do all this and still give Beasley his MLE-equivalent money

Agreed --- I think Portis can give you similar production as Naz at way less money. Portis more natural as a PF as well.

And normally plays 24min/game which meshes better with Tobias. PJ Washington and Naz Reid play more starter minutes. No room in rotation for that.

Duren28 Stew20
Tobias24 Portis24
Ausar30 Holland18
Ivey28 Beasley18
Cade32 Shröder16

Love that team right there

[SuperBad]

That would be a superior team to last years, with portis as the backup 4 and third C, fits the team like a glove, full year of Schroeder, youth development, improvement on the margins, with development

[zeebneeb]

The difference between Naz on the Wolves, and Naz on the Pistons is huge. Playing with the husk of Conelly, who has zero gravity getting Naz an open shot VS Cade who continuously has 2-4 defenders draped on him is so massive, its a completely different game. As Beasley said, "That’s one of my first memories from training camp: Just Cade saying to us, like, 'Damn. I didn’t realize the open shots I’d be getting.' I loved hearing that." Cade got a career role player to end up a season 8th all time in three pointers made in a season. Imagine what he can get Naz, as a starter, and the shots Cade will get, not to mention the lobs available.

A;

Cade
Ivey
Ausar
Naz
Duren

starting lineup is absolutely ridiculous. You've got an amazing mix of shooting, insane lob threats, ball handling, speed, and passing. To get that well rounded of a starting 5, your obviously going to have to give up something. Start with the starting 5. Get that locked up, and then fill in the edges.

Worrying about guys like Tobias, Beasley, THJ, Sasser, Tek, or first round picks is silly to me, as you can always find guys to fill out the bench.

I know thats not popular, but if you can land Naz at around 25 a season, at 25 years old, you absolutely get it done.

[Crymson]

Minnesota has played pretty damn good with him…and he is a major part of the rotation…so that makes him a “difference maker”.

Replace him with somebody who is not a difference maker (lets say Luka Garza for fun)…you think Minnesota gets to the West finals? See the difference? I’m not even the biggest fan of Naz, but come on man.

I think you're delving into semantics here. He's a solid rotation player who brings his best value off the bench. If that's your definition of a major difference-maker, then I guess we'll disagree. I don't think that for the average team, replacing their leading player off the bench with Naz Reid is going to make a major positive impact. That applies to Beasley here, and bringing on Reid would mean moving on from him.

I do not think Naz is a great starting power forward. He’s a great stretch center, but we have a logjam at the 5 if we bring him in and don’t make other moves. Naz is still a better defender than Duren, and I’d rather pay a floor stretcher.

If we're focusing on wording, then what makes him a "great stretch center"? Sure, he's a solid shooter and pretty good by the standards of centers at attacking off the dribble. He's blah at best on defense and a below-average rim protector, Minnesota has generally assigned him to defend fours rather than fives, and he's a weak rebounder. I doubt any team with playoff aspirations is keen to have him as its starting center unless that's alongside the likes of Giannis.

He makes Duren expendable, and I think we can get a solid PF if we are dangling him.

I doubt Duren holds anywhere near that much value on the trade market. Duren might be one of the most overrated players in the league right now in terms of fan perception, much like Drummond was. He's still unambiguously bad on defense after three seasons, and nobody wants to invest in a traditional big who's bad on defense; that's the most essential skill for a traditional center.

His value is still very much in the realm of potential rather than production, and that potential is increasingly dim given how little progress he's made defensively in three seasons and the fact that he's currently unswitchable on defense.

[MotownMadness]

If they can outright sign Naz they should. I don’t think that perfect guy is coming without giving up major assets and the young guys are about to get paid.

[bstein14]

I agree I wouldn't give up any assets for Naz, but we have $19 million of cap space and if we could simply give Naz 3 years $60 million and then use the room exception to resign Beasley I think we're better off. Its mostly about Naz being better than Font and also Tobias's age that makes this move a no brainer IMO.

Ivey coming back also means the back court is going to be a bit crowded for Schroeder anyways and we could sill offer him the BAE (bi-annual exception) for two years.

[the_l_train]

The difference between Naz on the Wolves, and Naz on the Pistons is huge. Playing with the husk of Conelly, who has zero gravity getting Naz an open shot VS Cade who continuously has 2-4 defenders draped on him is so massive, its a completely different game. As Beasley said, "That’s one of my first memories from training camp: Just Cade saying to us, like, 'Damn. I didn’t realize the open shots I’d be getting.' I loved hearing that." Cade got a career role player to end up a season 8th all time in three pointers made in a season. Imagine what he can get Naz, as a starter, and the shots Cade will get, not to mention the lobs available.

A;

Cade
Ivey
Ausar
Naz
Duren

starting lineup is absolutely ridiculous. You've got an amazing mix of shooting, insane lob threats, ball handling, speed, and passing. To get that well rounded of a starting 5, your obviously going to have to give up something. Start with the starting 5. Get that locked up, and then fill in the edges.

Worrying about guys like Tobias, Beasley, THJ, Sasser, Tek, or first round picks is silly to me, as you can always find guys to fill out the bench.

I know thats not popular, but if you can land Naz at around 25 a season, at 25 years old, you absolutely get it done.

I must say…pretty convincing argument here….especially about filling out the team around him.

Never seen so much love for Tobias as this board has shown recently…but we know he is only a few bad games from everybody's knee-jerk reaction to ship him out again. I think he is great off the bench, but still leaves much to be desired as our starting PF.