Raptors: Masai’s hunt for another championship!?

[tsherkin]

Masai wants the payoff without laying any of the foundation. He's all about skipping steps since 2020.

I mean, if there's talent to be acquired, then you do it. That's how you get there. You can't just forever get lucky in the draft and have your youth develop into a quality team. You go out and try to get pieces which position you well. We did it before in acquiring Lowry and FVV and really the bulk of the team which was so successful leading into the trade for Kawhi and the title.

We'll see what happens. Giannis is almost certainly a work of fiction, though, so it's likely moot.

[ChumboChappati]

Raps' title run was as flukey as it gets, maybe in another 10 years it happens again but not immediately.

The Raptors had almost a decade of making the playoffs and being a high seed. They kept running into Lebron James.

We just needed one player that can lift the whole team, and get a bucket when needed. Kawhi was that guy.

The team had:

Kyle Lowry: 6× NBA All-Star (2015–2020), All-NBA Third Team (2016)

Marc Gasol: 3× NBA All-Star (2012, 2015, 2017), All-NBA First Team (2015), All-NBA Second Team (2013), NBA Defensive Player of the Year (2013), NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2013)

Pascal Siakam: NBA Most Improved Player (2019) Future 2× NBA All-Star (2020, 2023), All-NBA Second Team (2020), All-NBA Third Team (2022)

Danny Green: NBA Champion (2014), NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2017)

Serge Ibaka: 3× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2012–2014)

Fred VanVleet: NBA Champion (2019), NBA All-Star (2022)


Not to forget: OG and Norm Powell.

That's really, really not a fluke.

why are you including future achievements to make your case for 2018-19 team? also why include Fred as NBA Championship for 2018-19 team?

this should be your post:

Kyle Lowry: 5× NBA All-Star (2015–2019), All-NBA Third Team (2016)

Marc Gasol: 3× NBA All-Star (2012, 2015, 2017), All-NBA First Team (2015), All-NBA Second Team (2013), NBA Defensive Player of the Year (2013), NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2013)

Danny Green: NBA Champion (2014), NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2017)

Serge Ibaka: 3× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2012–2014)

[Sixers in 4]

It’s much easier to build around Giannis at the end of the day than Scottie. Assuming Scottie and mostly picks goes out, you still have enough to make a move or 2. Most importantly, your future isn’t tied to Damien Lillard coming off an Achilles injury

seems marginal upgrade at best

Giannis, Ingram, Quickley, Poeltl is the foundation for a top 6 team. With a couple of moves they could be top 3 in the East.

No it isn't

[liquidswords]

Yeah I don't get it - Toronto is a great organization but what's left after a Giannis trade? Its honestly no better than a healthy Milwaukee team.

Quickly/Ingram/Poeltl and Toronto's bench is def better than the Bucks sans Lillard. AKA Kuzma, Portis, Trent, Porter Jr.

With how the East is shaping up in the near future (Pacers, Knicks, Cavs, Celtics?, Detroit + Orlando coming up), I fail to see how that roster is competitive.

[XTC]

Raps' title run was as flukey as it gets, maybe in another 10 years it happens again but not immediately.

The Raptors had almost a decade of making the playoffs and being a high seed. They kept running into Lebron James.

We just needed one player that can lift the whole team, and get a bucket when needed. Kawhi was that guy.

The team had:

Kyle Lowry: 6× NBA All-Star (2015–2020), All-NBA Third Team (2016)

Marc Gasol: 3× NBA All-Star (2012, 2015, 2017), All-NBA First Team (2015), All-NBA Second Team (2013), NBA Defensive Player of the Year (2013), NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2013)

Pascal Siakam: NBA Most Improved Player (2019) Future 2× NBA All-Star (2020, 2023), All-NBA Second Team (2020), All-NBA Third Team (2022)

Danny Green: NBA Champion (2014), NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2017)

Serge Ibaka: 3× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2012–2014)

Fred VanVleet: NBA Champion (2019), NBA All-Star (2022)


Not to forget: OG and Norm Powell.

That's really, really not a fluke.

why are you including future achievements to make your case for 2018-19 team? also why include Fred as NBA Championship for 2018-19 team?

this should be your post:

Kyle Lowry: 5× NBA All-Star (2015–2019), All-NBA Third Team (2016)

Marc Gasol: 3× NBA All-Star (2012, 2015, 2017), All-NBA First Team (2015), All-NBA Second Team (2013), NBA Defensive Player of the Year (2013), NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2013)

Danny Green: NBA Champion (2014), NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2017)

Serge Ibaka: 3× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2012–2014)

You do know Fred was apart of the 2019 team right? He even got a finals MVP votes, and was a huge reason why the Raps back door sweeped Milwaukee.

[phanman]

Masai wants the payoff without laying any of the foundation. He's all about skipping steps since 2020.

I don't like the decisions he's made since the chip, but this is just false. He's tried to a fault to build around remaining core of our championship team in Fred, Pascal and OG by trading for and extending Poeltl. He tried to get guard help by flipping Norm for Trent, signing Schroeder etc but these moves just ultimately didn't work out.

Post-trio, i'd say trading for RJ and IQ and then signing BI is all about laying down some foundation pieces next to our primary building block in Scottie.

[Sixers in 4]

If im the Raps, im expecting 1st(s) in that trade. embiid is signed for 4 more years at 60mill/year...i want nothing to do with that.

No team is trading for him until he plays games coming off a 2nd knee surgery in less than two years.

Plus, for the Sixers, I am not sure how trading him for expiring helps us. So then what? We still have PG to move before we can sign anyone. Our pick is carried over to next year 1-4, and unless Maxey and George get injured, it's not going to convey.

It makes sense for all involved to let this play out at least one more year. If Embiid is healthy, then he'll likely be movable for assets; if not, he may take a medical retirement, pick wise we'll also control our own destiny, and if by a miracle both Embiid and PG get healthy, well, then you also have Maxey and the 3rd overall pick, potentially grimes, McCain that is a pretty decent group. To me the player most likely to be moved and it's not a sexy name is Oubre if he opts in. WIth Grimes likely being a priority and the 3rd pick he is going to be an extra expense. Grimes is also capable of starting and does more defensively.

[Duffman100]

Yeah I don't get it - Toronto is a great organization but what's left after a Giannis trade? Its honestly no better than a healthy Milwaukee team.

Quickly/Ingram/Poeltl and Toronto's bench is def better than the Bucks sans Lillard. AKA Kuzma, Portis, Trent, Porter Jr.

With how the East is shaping up in the near future (Pacers, Knicks, Cavs, Celtics?, Detroit + Orlando coming up), I fail to see how that roster is competitive.

Really? If Ingram can play 55-65 games and with how decent the Raps bench looked at the end of last year? I could totally see that being a 50+ win team. Giannis changes everything.

[ChumboChappati]

The Raptors had almost a decade of making the playoffs and being a high seed. They kept running into Lebron James.

We just needed one player that can lift the whole team, and get a bucket when needed. Kawhi was that guy.

The team had:

Kyle Lowry: 6× NBA All-Star (2015–2020), All-NBA Third Team (2016)

Marc Gasol: 3× NBA All-Star (2012, 2015, 2017), All-NBA First Team (2015), All-NBA Second Team (2013), NBA Defensive Player of the Year (2013), NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2013)

Pascal Siakam: NBA Most Improved Player (2019) Future 2× NBA All-Star (2020, 2023), All-NBA Second Team (2020), All-NBA Third Team (2022)

Danny Green: NBA Champion (2014), NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2017)

Serge Ibaka: 3× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2012–2014)

Fred VanVleet: NBA Champion (2019), NBA All-Star (2022)


Not to forget: OG and Norm Powell.

That's really, really not a fluke.

why are you including future achievements to make your case for 2018-19 team? also why include Fred as NBA Championship for 2018-19 team?

this should be your post:

Kyle Lowry: 5× NBA All-Star (2015–2019), All-NBA Third Team (2016)

Marc Gasol: 3× NBA All-Star (2012, 2015, 2017), All-NBA First Team (2015), All-NBA Second Team (2013), NBA Defensive Player of the Year (2013), NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2013)

Danny Green: NBA Champion (2014), NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2017)

Serge Ibaka: 3× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2012–2014)

You do know Fred was apart of the 2019 team right? He even got a finals MVP votes, and was a huge reason why the Raps back door sweeped Milwaukee.

but he has not won anything before, so why include him as the NBA champion in the list? then you have to include all of the above players as 2019 NBA champions in your list as all of them are 2019 champions

[ItsDanger]

Other teams can put together a better offer for a rebuilding Bucks team. Maybe if Giannis forces it to Raps but the remaining roster might not be good enough.

[XTC]

why are you including future achievements to make your case for 2018-19 team? also why include Fred as NBA Championship for 2018-19 team?

this should be your post:

Kyle Lowry: 5× NBA All-Star (2015–2019), All-NBA Third Team (2016)

Marc Gasol: 3× NBA All-Star (2012, 2015, 2017), All-NBA First Team (2015), All-NBA Second Team (2013), NBA Defensive Player of the Year (2013), NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2013)

Danny Green: NBA Champion (2014), NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2017)

Serge Ibaka: 3× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2012–2014)

You do know Fred was apart of the 2019 team right? He even got a finals MVP votes, and was a huge reason why the Raps back door sweeped Milwaukee.

but he has not won anything before, so why include him as the NBA champion in the list? then you have to include all of the above players as 2019 NBA champions in your list as all of them are 2019 champions

Why does it matter what he did before for him to be counted as an NBA champion? You're not making a ton of sense.

[tsherkin]

Quickly/Ingram/Poeltl and Toronto's bench is def better than the Bucks sans Lillard. AKA Kuzma, Portis, Trent, Porter Jr.

With how the East is shaping up in the near future (Pacers, Knicks, Cavs, Celtics?, Detroit + Orlando coming up), I fail to see how that roster is competitive.

Really? If Ingram can play 55-65 games and with how decent the Raps bench looked at the end of last year? I could totally see that being a 50+ win team. Giannis changes everything.

I don't see us with that roster beating Indiana, New York or Cleveland. I can see us beating Orlando if their two focal guys don't learn how to make shots, and I can see us beating Detroit, though I wouldn't call that an easy series.

It depends a lot on what the D looks like and our overall health. Those three and Giannis don't smell like a top-6 type of offense. The Bucks were 6th with Lillard dramatically outpacing anything we've really ever had on our roster in franchise history outside of Kawhi, and our guys aren't that much better than Milwaukee's as to make up for that.

We'd be in the second round, though, and that'd be nice. Might even maybe make the ECFs, and that would also be lovely. But I doubt we'd be exiting the East.

[tsherkin]

You do know Fred was apart of the 2019 team right? He even got a finals MVP votes, and was a huge reason why the Raps back door sweeped Milwaukee.

but he has not won anything before, so why include him as the NBA champion in the list? then you have to include all of the above players as 2019 NBA champions in your list as all of them are 2019 champions

Why does it matter what he did before for him to be counted as an NBA champion? You're not making a ton of sense.

He was talking about the quality and known achievements of players going into that season, so listing an accomplishment which hadn't happened "going into" the season (as he said) wouldn't have made sense.

[RRyder823]

Giannis is gonna force a trade to Toronto huh?

New stuff can be cool and all but sometimes its fun listening to the classics

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

[Ssj16]

Raps' title run was as flukey as it gets, maybe in another 10 years it happens again but not immediately.

The Raptors had almost a decade of making the playoffs and being a high seed. They kept running into Lebron James.

We just needed one player that can lift the whole team, and get a bucket when needed. Kawhi was that guy.

The team had:

Kyle Lowry: 6× NBA All-Star (2015–2020), All-NBA Third Team (2016)

Marc Gasol: 3× NBA All-Star (2012, 2015, 2017), All-NBA First Team (2015), All-NBA Second Team (2013), NBA Defensive Player of the Year (2013), NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2013)

Pascal Siakam: NBA Most Improved Player (2019) Future 2× NBA All-Star (2020, 2023), All-NBA Second Team (2020), All-NBA Third Team (2022)

Danny Green: NBA Champion (2014), NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2017)

Serge Ibaka: 3× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2012–2014)

Fred VanVleet: NBA Champion (2019), NBA All-Star (2022)


Not to forget: OG and Norm Powell.

That's really, really not a fluke.

The Raps had a SRS of 7.29 in 2017/2018 before getting Kawhi, that's ELITE.

2020: 6.28
2021: 3.22
2022: 5.52
2023: 3.04
2024: 10.74

Those are the SRS of the past 5 champs. People are really under estimating how good those Raptors Team pre-Kawhi where... and then you trade Demar for Danny Green + Kawhi Leonard, and upgrade from Valanciunas to Marc Gasol... I think the 2019 Raptors are one of the better teams to win it all in recent memory. Just a deep squad, with star power, vets, and great coaching. Theres a reason why they where great even the next season minus Kawhi.

I'm pretty confident we take out the Lakers in 2020 and go back to back. Kawhi definitely blew this opportunity and that's on him.

[tsherkin]

The Raps had a SRS of 7.29 in 2017/2018 before getting Kawhi, that's ELITE.

In the regular season.

We all know what happened to Demar once the postseason began...

[sprewellchokes]

I can't quite figure out the Giannis Raps thing, how is that a better situation than the Bucks after they trade what assets they have?

It’s much easier to build around Giannis at the end of the day than Scottie. Assuming Scottie and mostly picks goes out, you still have enough to make a move or 2. Most importantly, your future isn’t tied to Damien Lillard coming off an Achilles injury

seems marginal upgrade at best

Good I want you to think that and the raptors will put Giannis right in the middle of our division and the Celtics and knicks will have to go through him directly four times a year.it happened before with Kawhi.

[azcatz11]

Two guys who aren’t even proven All Stars or blue chip prospects for Giannis? You’re joking or totally disconnected from reality

Barnes was an all star last season...

You're also getting pick #9 and 3 future FRPs


Let's look at what Davis got:
BI, Lonzo, Hart, #4, 2 FRP


Barnes, RJ, #9 = BI, Lonzo, Hart, #4
So Giannis getting an extra FRP than the Davis deal.
And Bucks get to send Giannis to a place he wants to go. A big city, big Greek population, east coast, Masai GM.

I’ve argued this on the Raptors board but I don’t understand why Barnes value is so high?

Consider this player:

-4 years of below league average efficiency scoring

-never averaged 20+ PPG

-1 all-star appearance

-has never made an all-defense team

-is about to make the 25% max

Does that guy sound like the centerpiece in a trade for an MVP? Doesn’t to me.

Most valuable archetype. Big wing who can shoot, pass and he’s a play maker. Can be elite defender

[TDGlenmanor]

Raptors should look at their roster as a blank canvas if we are netting the right players. Something unfortunately the bucks can't do. They are stuck with Dame and no picks, how will they build?

Trade for KAT, Bridges and one pick? I would rather keep him.

If in the Giannis sweepstakes, the raptors should look to offload all three of Barnes, Quickley, RJ, plus players who will need to be extended like Ochai, throw in Gradey and Mogbo as well. Maybe have cap space to sign someone like NAW, players who fit with Giannis.

Break off the Pelicans with what they want to free up the Bucks' pick, ideally RJ. Send the pick, plus our 9th and some futures with swaps with the rest of the Scottie, IQ package for Giannis.

With not many teams having cap space, there will be the opportunity to fill out the roster via free agency.

Better than wasting the next year in Milwaukee while waiting for an old Dame to come back

[tsherkin]

Barnes was an all star last season...

You're also getting pick #9 and 3 future FRPs


Let's look at what Davis got:
BI, Lonzo, Hart, #4, 2 FRP


Barnes, RJ, #9 = BI, Lonzo, Hart, #4
So Giannis getting an extra FRP than the Davis deal.
And Bucks get to send Giannis to a place he wants to go. A big city, big Greek population, east coast, Masai GM.

I’ve argued this on the Raptors board but I don’t understand why Barnes value is so high?

Consider this player:

-4 years of below league average efficiency scoring

-never averaged 20+ PPG

-1 all-star appearance

-has never made an all-defense team

-is about to make the 25% max

Does that guy sound like the centerpiece in a trade for an MVP? Doesn’t to me.

Most valuable archetype. Big wing who can shoot, pass and he’s a play maker. Can be elite defender

But he can't shoot. And sucks at scoring; badly.

He's a defensive forward who can rebound, and who passes well. We have been trying to get blood from a stone out of him in direct contravention of every scouting report since he was in college, and it has been fairly ridiculous. He doesn't have that in him. He's a good player, but dude has more Bruce Bowen Plus in him than anything else (though he's a below-average corner 3pt shooter and Bowen was not, and is a better passer).