Atlanta - Charlotte - Toronto

[Godaddycurse]

Atlanta trade: Mann, Niang, 13
Atlanta receive: RJ, Okogie, 9

Charlotte trade: Okogie, 33
Charlotte receive: Mann

Toronto trade: RJ, 9
Toronto receive: Niang, 13, 33

Why for Atlanta: absorb RJ's contract to move up in the lottery
Why for Toronto: assuming KM or Fears is gone, move down to select a forward (Bryant/Fleming/Noa/CMB etc). free up MLE to address back up C and create a big TPE
Why for Charlotte: upgrade SG

add 2nd(s) as needed

[psman2]

Mann has trade value?

[Mavrelous]

Mann has trade value?

They paid to get him at the deadline, so they clearly value him...

[Texas Chuck]

Same issue last time Charlotte was used to take on MAnn because a poster didn't want him to their team -- Josh Green is still there. Mann is better, but not enough to justify paying both to be hustle guards and give up value to do that. Green has to go out I would think to get Charlotte to bite. But OP rightfully doesn't want Green either.

[ReggiesKnicks]

Mann has trade value?

They paid to get him at the deadline, so they clearly value him...

What did they pay?

[Mavrelous]

Green to LAL for Maxi and Vincent, CHO take Maxi into MLE, ATL take Vincent, 33 stays with CHO (or sent with Maxi for a salary dump)

[Mavrelous]

Mann has trade value?

They paid to get him at the deadline, so they clearly value him...

What did they pay?

Bogi + few 2nds...

[psman2]

Mann has trade value?

They paid to get him at the deadline, so they clearly value him...

But also got off of Bogi whose deal had turned sour. And all 3 of those 2nds are not equal in value to the 33. Plus Okogie is on a non-gtd so Charlotte is basically absorbing the whole deal.

IMO I have Mann as neutral at best on his new extension. Green/33 would be closer to what he was valued at.

[hugepatsfan]

These kinds of trades are really tough to judge without knowing what a team's draft board looks like. Atlanta could view this as a steal for them, them being ripped off, or fair all based on what their draft board is.

I think Mann's a good player, so I like CHA acquiring him if they're trying to make a play-in push. They have #33 and #34 whih should, in theory, increase their willingness to trade one for a player like this too.

On the TOR side not sure I'm a huge fan. I don't usually like downgrading lottery picks as a means of saving money. That said, they do need to shed some since I assume tax is out of the question and their roster is fairly top heavy in salaries. Can't imagine they want to move Barnes/Ingram/Quickley/Poeltl for salary saving since Masai always sticks with his win now guys and Dick/Aghbaji shouldn't be guys you dump for money obviously. No one else saves anything to move so it's kind of RJ by default.

Feels kind of like overkill though. You mention opening up the MLE for backup center... why not just try and work that into this deal? Go get you a decent but overpaid backup s that taking the money back means you don't have to move down in the lottery.

If TOR view the drop from 9 to 13 as no big deal while ATL simultaneously believes it's a serious upgrade, then this deal makes sense. But short of that contradictory viewpoint, feels like one of them would opt out. But I respect the TOR fan opinion of their own team too, just my 5000 foot view.

[Texas Chuck]

Mann has trade value?

They paid to get him at the deadline, so they clearly value him...

What did they pay?

Maybe he believes Bogdan had positive value at the time? This was absolutely not seen as the case at the time. It was reported Atlanta was highly motivated to just get him off the roster.

I don't think Mann has any real value and definitely not this much financial relief and a pick. And not from a bad team with his doppleganger on it.

[Mavrelous]

Mann has trade value?

They paid to get him at the deadline, so they clearly value him...

But also got off of Bogi whose deal had turned sour. And all 3 of those 2nds are not equal in value to the 33. Plus Okogie is on a non-gtd so Charlotte is basically absorbing the whole deal.

IMO I have Mann as neutral at best on his new extension.

No one pays 2nds to turns a player with a year left on his deal for a player with 3 year left if they didn't value the player incoming, it just doesn't make any sense.

[daoneandonly]

Too good for Tor, get out of RJ's deal and only move down 4 spots.

[Godaddycurse]

Maybe Atlanta takes back green instead of okogie? i dont think they should mind that since they are so far away from the tax.

[psman2]

They paid to get him at the deadline, so they clearly value him...

But also got off of Bogi whose deal had turned sour. And all 3 of those 2nds are not equal in value to the 33. Plus Okogie is on a non-gtd so Charlotte is basically absorbing the whole deal.

IMO I have Mann as neutral at best on his new extension.

No one pays 2nds to turns a player with a year left on his deal for a player with 3 year left if they didn't value the player incoming, it just doesn't make any sense.

I never implied they didn’t value Mann over Bogi. That fact doesn’t change my opinion that the trade treated Mann as a neutral in trade value. Now if Bogi was expiring or playing well then I would have evaluated the Hawks as thinking and treating Mann as having positive trade value.

[Godaddycurse]

These kinds of trades are really tough to judge without knowing what a team's draft board looks like. Atlanta could view this as a steal for them, them being ripped off, or fair all based on what their draft board is.

I think Mann's a good player, so I like CHA acquiring him if they're trying to make a play-in push. They have #33 and #34 whih should, in theory, increase their willingness to trade one for a player like this too.

On the TOR side not sure I'm a huge fan. I don't usually like downgrading lottery picks as a means of saving money. That said, they do need to shed some since I assume tax is out of the question and their roster is fairly top heavy in salaries. Can't imagine they want to move Barnes/Ingram/Quickley/Poeltl for salary saving since Masai always sticks with his win now guys and Dick/Aghbaji shouldn't be guys you dump for money obviously. No one else saves anything to move so it's kind of RJ by default.

Feels kind of like overkill though. You mention opening up the MLE for backup center... why not just try and work that into this deal? Go get you a decent but overpaid backup s that taking the money back means you don't have to move down in the lottery.

If TOR view the drop from 9 to 13 as no big deal while ATL simultaneously believes it's a serious upgrade, then this deal makes sense. But short of that contradictory viewpoint, feels like one of them would opt out. But I respect the TOR fan opinion of their own team too, just my 5000 foot view.

yea its very draft board dependent. I suspect Masai probably likes someone alot more at 9 than I would.

[Godaddycurse]

But also got off of Bogi whose deal had turned sour. And all 3 of those 2nds are not equal in value to the 33. Plus Okogie is on a non-gtd so Charlotte is basically absorbing the whole deal.

IMO I have Mann as neutral at best on his new extension.

No one pays 2nds to turns a player with a year left on his deal for a player with 3 year left if they didn't value the player incoming, it just doesn't make any sense.

I never implied they didn’t value Mann over Bogi. That fact doesn’t change my opinion that the trade treated Mann as a neutral in trade value. Now if Bogi was expiring or playing well then I would have evaluated the Hawks as thinking and treating Mann as having positive trade value.

Mann played much better post trade and should've improved his value a bit

[Mavrelous]

But also got off of Bogi whose deal had turned sour. And all 3 of those 2nds are not equal in value to the 33. Plus Okogie is on a non-gtd so Charlotte is basically absorbing the whole deal.

IMO I have Mann as neutral at best on his new extension.

No one pays 2nds to turns a player with a year left on his deal for a player with 3 year left if they didn't value the player incoming, it just doesn't make any sense.

I never implied they didn’t value Mann over Bogi. That fact doesn’t change my opinion that the trade treated Mann as a neutral in trade value. Now if Bogi was expiring or playing well then I would have evaluated the Hawks as thinking and treating Mann as having positive trade value.

They not only valilued Mann over Bogi, they valued Mann on 3 year deal over the MLE, than Bogi on a single year, this is important distinction, no one pays for such contract if it's just neutral.

[psman2]

No one pays 2nds to turns a player with a year left on his deal for a player with 3 year left if they didn't value the player incoming, it just doesn't make any sense.

I never implied they didn’t value Mann over Bogi. That fact doesn’t change my opinion that the trade treated Mann as a neutral in trade value. Now if Bogi was expiring or playing well then I would have evaluated the Hawks as thinking and treating Mann as having positive trade value.

Mann played much better post trade and should've improved his value a bit

And played subpar in the playins. I don’t think his valued increased.

[Texas Chuck]

I'm willing to accept the Hawks valued him. I do not see Charlotte valuing him to the same degree and the OP is asking them to pay more than the Hawks did.

[psman2]

No one pays 2nds to turns a player with a year left on his deal for a player with 3 year left if they didn't value the player incoming, it just doesn't make any sense.

I never implied they didn’t value Mann over Bogi. That fact doesn’t change my opinion that the trade treated Mann as a neutral in trade value. Now if Bogi was expiring or playing well then I would have evaluated the Hawks as thinking and treating Mann as having positive trade value.

They not only valilued Mann over Bogi, they valued Mann on 3 year deal over the MLE, than Bogi on a single year, this is important distinction, no one pays for such contract if it's just neutral.

What would you determine Bogi and those 3 2nds net value was at last deadline?