Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest"/KD too

[sidsid]

Why can't Scottie and Giannis work?

I'd say lack of shooting and operating in the same space, clogs up the paint a bunch especially with RJ/BI/Jak all operating in similar ranges.

I figured Poeltl is gone in this instance and Giannis operates at the 5. Stranger things have happened.

But yes, Scottie really has to improve his 3 and soon.

Yeah Jak is the hard out. Giannis can't function with a non-shooter C, which is different than a poor shooting Barnes who can still setup above the arc. Immediate double teams, forcing kick-outs that lead to around the arc swings which a defense can easily recover to when you don't have 4-out.

You still need a second functional defender/help defender to mirror the twin tower defense Giannis is used to and that's where Barnes mixes in well, and likely better than the Lopez role (a little too slow in his old age) in Milwaukee.

The offense is the clear issue, where the only current role for both is as off-ball screeners at the arc in the motion offense while the other operates as the playmaking high post distributor. Barnes and Siakam worked a lot better here with Siakam having some respect for his shot.

[Tha Cynic]

Read on Twitter

Yikes, Doung Smith is impacting betting sites.

But such a Toronto vs US thing to see Toronto have higher bet odds than New York and Brooklyn, but be placed lower on the list on the page in terms of position lol.

[EH15]

Read on Twitter

Yikes, Doung Smith is impacting betting sites.

But such a Toronto vs US thing to see Toronto have higher bet odds than New York and Brooklyn, but be placed lower on the list on the page in terms of position lol.

He's not impacting anything. It was sitting at +1500 as of mid May. Tweet is fake news.

[Tor_Raps]

Read on Twitter

Yikes, Doung Smith is impacting betting sites.

But such a Toronto vs US thing to see Toronto have higher bet odds than New York and Brooklyn, but be placed lower on the list on the page in terms of position lol.

We The Other!

I will never forget that poll loll

[Tha Cynic]

Why can't Scottie and Giannis work?

It can and will work. Barnes has shown he’s a great support player. People are overthinking it. Siakam and Scottie played well together and you have to assume Scottie and Giannis will be even better.

In fact Masai is most likely trying to center this around RJ and Dick with picks. He has always talked about having multiple stars and he has consistently said Scottie is one of them. But, if it comes down to it, he will make the deal if it leaves him enough to build a good team.

[LoveMyRaps]

We found Pensare's burner account!

Was a lil comprehension test.

It's pretty simple: everyone is on the table for Giannis, but Scottie is the last guy I'd want to trade.

I hope we can build a package that doesn't include Scottie.

Didn't say I wouldn't trade Scottie for Giannis

But why? What's the point of trading for Giannis if you insist on keeping the player who's least compatible with him on the floor?

Because he's still our best player and most valuable asset.
Same reason you draft BPA over fit.

You build around Giannis + Barnes - surround them with shooters.

Giannis and Barnes are terrific all around players and would be a nightmare defensive duo.

[earthtone]

Getting FRPs from a team that is going to end up being one of the top teams in the league because of Giannis, means those FRPs have less value. Combined with the fact that the Bucks don't control their own picks, they are better off with a package of Barnes (4th pick), Gradey (13th pick), Ochai (14th pick) and the 2025 9th pick, which can all help the Bucks get back into development mode much quicker, than waiting on FRPs way out into the future that will probably be nowhere near the lottery.

Masai values holding onto the teams own picks, because if a season goes off the rails, they can easily pivot to tanking to get a higher pick. Better to have the control over your own pick, then hoping for another team to fall apart if you have their pick (and they have no incentive to tank).

I mean it’s clear why Masai would want to hold on to future firsts, but the same reason he’d want to hold on to them the same reason the Bucks would want them. You never know where a team will be in 5-6 years from now, having their unprotected firsts is a good gamble to make.

They also give you way more tradable assets, which is valuable for a team like the Bucks with no picks and very little talent. If Scottie/Ochai/Dick is the base package, I don’t see a reason to settle for only one first when you could get unprotected picks/swaps for the next 5 years and still have it be a fair deal.

The Raps only have to beat the next best offer, and if they are offering up young talent like Barnes, Gradey and Ochai, plus the 9th pick, that right there can rebuild 4/5's of the Bucks starting lineup. I think Masai has proven in past deals, trading away all future control of their draft picks is not something he likes to do.

And it just might lineup nicely with the Bucks current situation, where they probably want young players over future draft picks, since they have no incentive to suck right now.

I think the calculation for trading future firsts changes if you're acquiring a multi-time MVP. If I'm the Bucks I want young players & future draft picks, and if you're dealing Giannis you're in position to demand everything.

I agree though, it is all about beating the next offer, but teams like San Antonio/Houston/Brooklyn also have a mix of young players + draft capital that could be very competitive.

If the difference between getting Giannis or not getting Giannis is 3 future firsts, I think you have to add those firsts. But I'm sure Masai is much more shrewd negotiator than me.

[Tofubeque]

How come no one talking about KD and Giannis talking about teaming up in TO? Or was that a fake report by Mark lol

Fake report, it was from NBACentel which is a parody account.

[WuTang_CMB]

They had RJ playing the right way when he first came to the Raps, focusing on open 3's and just slashing to the basket. That went out the window last year with sitting so many players. But I think that efficiency could come back in a lineup with Giannis, BI & IQ.

I think RJ is a player worth holding onto, because Giannis is going to need guys that can get a bucket in the crunch, and I would think that would be left to BI and RJ.

You need defense and 3's and good free throw shooting to compliment. The defense got better but still not at the level we need. If Giannis comes, I would gladly deal RJ - if not to Bucks if they dont want him then to someone else.

I would think they try it with RJ first, and then look to trade if it doesn't work.

But the deal I have been saying for awhile that I think makes sense is Barnes ($38.6M), Dick ($5M), Agbaji ($6.4M), 9th pick (~$6M), and another FRP (and maybe a swap or two) for Giannis ($54M). Bucks rebuild their starting lineup with youth (9th pick could be a PG or C with what is available in the draft at 9).

Raps lineup:
C) Poeltl (Mogbo)
PF) Giannis
SF) Ingram (Battle)
SG) RJ (JKW)
PG) IQ (Shead)

The cheap bench helps offset the expensive starting lineup, to stay close to the 1st apron. I could see them run that out for at least half a season to see if if works.

All of those players would be locked in for the next 2 seasons, so expiring contracts and salary demands won't get in the way.

Toronto was already looking to move RJ in a BI deal. If they get Giannis they are even more inclined to move him.

Best deal is

Barnes, JKW or Dick and RJ plus picks for Giannis and Connington

[Duffman100]

My hunch is the Bucks ask for too much and he starts the season with the Bucks.

And fair, they'd need a haul to restart their organization. Right now they're in BIG trouble.

No 2025 or 2029 picks
2026 and 2028 swapped with NOP
2030 swapped to POR

Like jesus. They literally cant tank so they might be a team who values players coming back more than picks.

As per Fanspo, their future picks they own are:
2025 #47
2026 lesser of MIL and NOP
2027 lesser of MIL NOP
2028 some confusing swaps
2030 lesser of MIL and POR
2031 1st
2031 2nd

GROSS. They legitimately might not get a lottery pick for 7 years. Their next lottery pick is like 11 years old right now.

This is why it's funny to read the GM and them being like

"Is Giannis even better off in Toronto than the Bucks?"

uh... yeah.

[Tha Cynic]

Why can't Scottie and Giannis work?

Spacing issues, but they can work imo as long as one of them can play the 5. Poetl-Giannis-Scottie imo not nearly enough spacing.

Just hard to imagine that you can get Giannis without giving up Barnes. Mind you, we all figured Pascal and/or OG would have to go in a Kawhi trade, and that didn't happen, so who knows.

Yeah we not getting Giannis without Barnes....Bucks will want Barnes to build around in that scenario along with the #9th pick and prolly RJ or Gradey along with all the picks we can offer...This is not the Kawhi situation where Kawhi was injured on his walk year....Bucks are going to get a bag for Giannis in this deal to who ever they trade him to...

Disagree. Bucks have no team left so they probably want to start from scratch. I don’t think they would want to take on a max salary with no semblance of a team next season and an injured, aging Lillard. I can see a three way though.

[earthtone]

I think the Bucks would prefer young talent they can plug into their lineup right away as opposed to unknown picks 3-5 years from now. Barnes+9 is a pretty strong core structure of a deal.

Yeah, and I see no need to give away a bunch of future draft picks AND Barnes. To build around Giannis, we need to keep the future picks as draft capital going forward.

Contract matching is the problem. Barnes will make $38.7 mill when July 1 ticks over. Giannis $54.1 mill. So Raps need to add 14 mill or so, plus whatever bad contract (not Dame! not Kuzma!) Bucks want to dump on us. P-Conn's 9.4 mill for one more season, maybe.

So Barnes and Barrett for Giannis and Connaughton? Do we need to add #9 into that? B&B+9 seems like a lot.

Barnes + Gradey + Ochai is ~$50 mil and would keep both teams under the first apron. If the Bucks want the #9 this year, Connaughton would have to be included in the deal, but the salaries would still match up well.

[LoveMyRaps]

Bucks might also think Giannis + Scottie aren't a good fit, which makes our picks even more appealing.

[RapsFanInOhio]

Why can't Scottie and Giannis work?

It can and will work. Barnes has shown he’s a great support player. People are overthinking it. Siakam and Scottie played well together and you have to assume Scottie and Giannis will be even better.

In fact Masai is most likely trying to center this around RJ and Dick with picks. He has always talked about having multiple stars and he has consistently said Scottie is one of them. But, if it comes down to it, he will make the deal if it leaves him enough to build a good team.

RJ and Dick is still $18mil short in terms of salaries. So it’s not just RJ and Dick, it’s them plus however you want to gut the roster. If you give up Poeltl, you’re just creating another hole that isn’t easily filled.

I mean IQ / Ingram / Scottie / Giannis / literally whoever is still good, but Giannis isn’t going want to guard bigger centers.

It’s going to be Scottie if it happens. Not sure why Milwaukee would ask for anything else, and Giannis isn’t going to force his way here.

[WuTang_CMB]

KOC

https://youtu.be/RXfU5vYhCdk?t=1410

[Tha Cynic]

https://torontosun.com/sports/basketball/nba/toronto-raptors/antetokounmpo-breaking-down-likelihood

WuTang is like AI with the news, before AI even became commercial

[RapsFanInOhio]

You need defense and 3's and good free throw shooting to compliment. The defense got better but still not at the level we need. If Giannis comes, I would gladly deal RJ - if not to Bucks if they dont want him then to someone else.

I would think they try it with RJ first, and then look to trade if it doesn't work.

But the deal I have been saying for awhile that I think makes sense is Barnes ($38.6M), Dick ($5M), Agbaji ($6.4M), 9th pick (~$6M), and another FRP (and maybe a swap or two) for Giannis ($54M). Bucks rebuild their starting lineup with youth (9th pick could be a PG or C with what is available in the draft at 9).

Raps lineup:
C) Poeltl (Mogbo)
PF) Giannis
SF) Ingram (Battle)
SG) RJ (JKW)
PG) IQ (Shead)

The cheap bench helps offset the expensive starting lineup, to stay close to the 1st apron. I could see them run that out for at least half a season to see if if works.

All of those players would be locked in for the next 2 seasons, so expiring contracts and salary demands won't get in the way.

Toronto was already looking to move RJ in a BI deal. If they get Giannis they are even more inclined to move him.

Best deal is

Barnes, JKW or Dick and RJ plus picks for Giannis and Connington

Why do we continue to act like RJ has no value? I simply do not get this.

[WuTang_CMB]

I would think they try it with RJ first, and then look to trade if it doesn't work.

But the deal I have been saying for awhile that I think makes sense is Barnes ($38.6M), Dick ($5M), Agbaji ($6.4M), 9th pick (~$6M), and another FRP (and maybe a swap or two) for Giannis ($54M). Bucks rebuild their starting lineup with youth (9th pick could be a PG or C with what is available in the draft at 9).

Raps lineup:
C) Poeltl (Mogbo)
PF) Giannis
SF) Ingram (Battle)
SG) RJ (JKW)
PG) IQ (Shead)

The cheap bench helps offset the expensive starting lineup, to stay close to the 1st apron. I could see them run that out for at least half a season to see if if works.

All of those players would be locked in for the next 2 seasons, so expiring contracts and salary demands won't get in the way.

Toronto was already looking to move RJ in a BI deal. If they get Giannis they are even more inclined to move him.

Best deal is

Barnes, JKW or Dick and RJ plus picks for Giannis and Connington

Why do we continue to act like RJ has no value? I simply do not get this.

Market dictates

NO could have paired him with his buddy Zion and said nah we good with Bruce and Kelly lol

[LoveMyRaps]

Let's sign Thanasis.

[Randle McMurphy]

I would think they try it with RJ first, and then look to trade if it doesn't work.

But the deal I have been saying for awhile that I think makes sense is Barnes ($38.6M), Dick ($5M), Agbaji ($6.4M), 9th pick (~$6M), and another FRP (and maybe a swap or two) for Giannis ($54M). Bucks rebuild their starting lineup with youth (9th pick could be a PG or C with what is available in the draft at 9).

Raps lineup:
C) Poeltl (Mogbo)
PF) Giannis
SF) Ingram (Battle)
SG) RJ (JKW)
PG) IQ (Shead)

The cheap bench helps offset the expensive starting lineup, to stay close to the 1st apron. I could see them run that out for at least half a season to see if if works.

All of those players would be locked in for the next 2 seasons, so expiring contracts and salary demands won't get in the way.

Toronto was already looking to move RJ in a BI deal. If they get Giannis they are even more inclined to move him.

Best deal is

Barnes, JKW or Dick and RJ plus picks for Giannis and Connington

Why do we continue to act like RJ has no value? I simply do not get this.

Because he's not even close to worth what he's getting paid. The guy plays absolutely no defense and is an inefficient volume scorer.

Whether they get Giannis or not, their first priority has to be getting rid of him this summer.