KD to Raps

[mademan]

Brandon Ingram, #9 and a future unprotected pick for KD and I would be OK with this trade.

That's a crazy valuation. Im not throwing an extra pick and im closer to asking for the late 1st PHX currently has to bridge the gap. 9>KD, imo

Yeah no doubt the unprotected first on top is way overshooting. Don't agree 9 is worth more than KD though. And of course you and I still have quite a difference of opinion on the value of the matching money.

But the simple fix there would be to take 9 out which I kinda think Toronto should do anyway. Then replace it with a future pick with minimal protections. (maybe at top 4, top 1, unp)

I'm still trying to work out a BI deal that either returns useful pieces to Phoenix and gets you the value rebate you believe you are due or trying to figure out godaddy's version of expiring money and a first. It's been tough though. I just don't see a big market for that player on that number with that many games missed.

But still efforting. You guys believe in it, so I'm going to see if I can work it out and get posters here to be on board with it.

I think we also differ on KD. I have Ingram as a slight positive and RJ as a slight negative (i think you have him as a much bigger negative than me), but the big difference for me here is KD. I dont think he's worth more than expiring and a mid 1st...with RJ's money, I still have Ingram/RJ/9>KD, but i can see how others see it differently

The big problem for me is KD's availability and him wanting whats gonna be a big legacy extension (probably 2-3 more years at his currently salary or more). You would have to really like KD in the short term knowing he's either gonna be a straight up bad contract years down the line or that his injuries will derail at least a season for you, as they have the Suns, and maybe more. I would actually take KD for the next 2 years if the price was Ingram/RJ/9 if we didnt have to extend him- just cause im not a fan of this core and think we might be forced to rebuild in 2 years anyway- but i think that's impossible.

[jredsaz]

Okay here is attempt 1(As part of Durant deal):

BI goes to Detroit. Harris goes to Phoenix, Fontecchio goes to a 4th team with the Raps/Suns/Pistons fighting over who helps pay. Detroit spends cash, each other team sends a future 2nd? Raptors get their own 2nd back this year (not a first but pick 37). Suns also can take back some additional salary from yet another team looking to get off money.

Stupid complicated and I'm not sold at all Detroit should/would do that, but maybe? Phoenix might just prefer BI, would depend what they could do with the difference in salary I guess. Or just take the money savings and figure Harris will play more games and they come out even?

Still efforting.

Think the Suns would be fine with BI and #9. It’s just getting the other salary to match. Abaji has to be in there as well as two other minimum deal.

[Texas Chuck]

Okay here is attempt 1(As part of Durant deal):

BI goes to Detroit. Harris goes to Phoenix, Fontecchio goes to a 4th team with the Raps/Suns/Pistons fighting over who helps pay. Detroit spends cash, each other team sends a future 2nd? Raptors get their own 2nd back this year (not a first but pick 37). Suns also can take back some additional salary from yet another team looking to get off money.

Stupid complicated and I'm not sold at all Detroit should/would do that, but maybe? Phoenix might just prefer BI, would depend what they could do with the difference in salary I guess. Or just take the money savings and figure Harris will play more games and they come out even?

Still efforting.

Think the Suns would be fine with BI and #9. It’s just getting the other salary to match. Abaji has to be in there as well as two other minimum deal.

I don't think Abaji can be in there. Raps would be committing to win now and they would absolutely need him. They would have to find another way to move salary if need be. And another way to replace his value if need be. But they would need him.

[jredsaz]

That's a crazy valuation. Im not throwing an extra pick and im closer to asking for the late 1st PHX currently has to bridge the gap. 9>KD, imo

Yeah no doubt the unprotected first on top is way overshooting. Don't agree 9 is worth more than KD though. And of course you and I still have quite a difference of opinion on the value of the matching money.

But the simple fix there would be to take 9 out which I kinda think Toronto should do anyway. Then replace it with a future pick with minimal protections. (maybe at top 4, top 1, unp)

I'm still trying to work out a BI deal that either returns useful pieces to Phoenix and gets you the value rebate you believe you are due or trying to figure out godaddy's version of expiring money and a first. It's been tough though. I just don't see a big market for that player on that number with that many games missed.

But still efforting. You guys believe in it, so I'm going to see if I can work it out and get posters here to be on board with it.

I think we also differ on KD. I have Ingram as a slight positive and RJ as a slight negative (i think you have him as a much bigger negative than me), but the big difference for me here is KD. I dont think he's worth more than expiring and a mid 1st...with RJ's money, I still have Ingram/RJ/9>KD, but i can see how others see it differently

The big problem for me is KD's availability and him wanting whats gonna be a big legacy extension (probably 2-3 more years at his currently salary or more). You would have to really like KD in the short term knowing he's either gonna be a straight up bad contract years down the line or that his injuries will derail at least a season for you, as they have the Suns, and maybe more. I would actually take KD for the next 2 years if the price was Ingram/RJ/9 if we didnt have to extend him- just cause im not a fan of this core and think we might be forced to rebuild in 2 years anyway- but i think that's impossible.

Why so concerned about KD injuries derailing the season?He did blow out his Achilles but hasn’t missed a playoff run due to injury since his recovery. I get he is 37 and he will play less regular season games but I don’t believe he has some outsized injury risk that seems to be prevalent everywhere on this board.

[mademan]

Yeah no doubt the unprotected first on top is way overshooting. Don't agree 9 is worth more than KD though. And of course you and I still have quite a difference of opinion on the value of the matching money.

But the simple fix there would be to take 9 out which I kinda think Toronto should do anyway. Then replace it with a future pick with minimal protections. (maybe at top 4, top 1, unp)

I'm still trying to work out a BI deal that either returns useful pieces to Phoenix and gets you the value rebate you believe you are due or trying to figure out godaddy's version of expiring money and a first. It's been tough though. I just don't see a big market for that player on that number with that many games missed.

But still efforting. You guys believe in it, so I'm going to see if I can work it out and get posters here to be on board with it.

I think we also differ on KD. I have Ingram as a slight positive and RJ as a slight negative (i think you have him as a much bigger negative than me), but the big difference for me here is KD. I dont think he's worth more than expiring and a mid 1st...with RJ's money, I still have Ingram/RJ/9>KD, but i can see how others see it differently

The big problem for me is KD's availability and him wanting whats gonna be a big legacy extension (probably 2-3 more years at his currently salary or more). You would have to really like KD in the short term knowing he's either gonna be a straight up bad contract years down the line or that his injuries will derail at least a season for you, as they have the Suns, and maybe more. I would actually take KD for the next 2 years if the price was Ingram/RJ/9 if we didnt have to extend him- just cause im not a fan of this core and think we might be forced to rebuild in 2 years anyway- but i think that's impossible.

Why so concerned about KD injuries derailing the season?He did blow out his Achilles but hasn’t missed a playoff run due to injury since his recovery. I get he is 37 and he will play less regular season games but I don’t believe he has some outsized injury risk that seems to be prevalent everywhere on this board.

He's played 35/55/47/75/62 games over the past 5 seasons. If that's not cause for concern for a 37 year old, i really dont know what is.

[Texas Chuck]

It's a concern. IF you weren't trading BI for him. Who is his own I only play half the season problem. And no him being younger doesn't make that any less of an issue. And him having gotten paid again likely makes it a bigger one. One thing we know for certain about KD is he';s an old-school hooper. Yes he wants his money, but he's going to play hard no matter what. BI? Love of the game has never been associated with him.

[mademan]

It's a concern. IF you weren't trading BI for him. Who is his own I only play half the season problem. And no him being younger doesn't make that any less of an issue. And him having gotten paid again likely makes it a bigger one. One thing we know for certain about KD is he';s an old-school hooper. Yes he wants his money, but he's going to play hard no matter what. BI? Love of the game has never been associated with him.

Ill take KD for the next 2 years over BI. I just dont want to be on the hook for his extension

[Texas Chuck]

It's a concern. IF you weren't trading BI for him. Who is his own I only play half the season problem. And no him being younger doesn't make that any less of an issue. And him having gotten paid again likely makes it a bigger one. One thing we know for certain about KD is he';s an old-school hooper. Yes he wants his money, but he's going to play hard no matter what. BI? Love of the game has never been associated with him.

Ill take KD for the next 2 years over BI. I just dont want to be on the hook for his extension

I'd take the 2 year upgrade and take my chances on year 3 every single time. Because let's say KD is washed by year 3. Fine he's an expiring so you could attach assets and just move him as salary matching. Not the end of the world.

[jredsaz]

I think we also differ on KD. I have Ingram as a slight positive and RJ as a slight negative (i think you have him as a much bigger negative than me), but the big difference for me here is KD. I dont think he's worth more than expiring and a mid 1st...with RJ's money, I still have Ingram/RJ/9>KD, but i can see how others see it differently

The big problem for me is KD's availability and him wanting whats gonna be a big legacy extension (probably 2-3 more years at his currently salary or more). You would have to really like KD in the short term knowing he's either gonna be a straight up bad contract years down the line or that his injuries will derail at least a season for you, as they have the Suns, and maybe more. I would actually take KD for the next 2 years if the price was Ingram/RJ/9 if we didnt have to extend him- just cause im not a fan of this core and think we might be forced to rebuild in 2 years anyway- but i think that's impossible.

Why so concerned about KD injuries derailing the season?He did blow out his Achilles but hasn’t missed a playoff run due to injury since his recovery. I get he is 37 and he will play less regular season games but I don’t believe he has some outsized injury risk that seems to be prevalent everywhere on this board.

He's played 35/55/47/75/62 games over the past 5 seasons. If that's not cause for concern for a 37 year old, i really dont know what is.

KD has been healthy for the playoffs and that what I care about.

[james vincent]

Raptors have made some questionable moves lately I.e. the Brandon Ingram and Jakob Poeltl trade. However, KD is extremely wrong timeline-wise. If they choose to pursue Giannis, then that’s a better gamble (although as great as he is, I don’t think his game will age well as he gets older).

[Texas Chuck]

Raptors have made some questionable moves lately I.e. the Brandon Ingram and Jakob Poeltl trade. However, KD is extremely wrong timeline-wise. If they choose to pursue Giannis, then that’s a better gamble (although as great as he is, I don’t think his game will age well as he gets older).

I think they are quite different. IF all KD costs you is 9 and some unwanted salary, it actually doesn't effect any time line at all. With Giannis it basically comes down to Barnes. I think even most Raps fans have come to realize this guy isn't ever going to be a franchise player so swap him with stuff for Giannis and you are basically in the same place once Giannis ages out because you aren't going to want to give a 3rd huge contract to Barnes unless you've lucked into a star, but having locked yourself into all these players, you are probably a play-in level team so unlikely to find him.

I just don't think Toronto has anything really to lose. They are currently nowhere and on a path to nowhere barring an unexpected hit with a non premium draft pick. Even if we give BI 65-70 games, give IQ something resembling a top 20 PG, where else does the improvement come from. Poeltl is who he is. Barrett is who he is, none of the kids on the roster project to any major growth.

I'd not be at all concerned about one of these moves going wrong. Nothing has been lost in the effort.

[jredsaz]

Raptors have made some questionable moves lately I.e. the Brandon Ingram and Jakob Poeltl trade. However, KD is extremely wrong timeline-wise. If they choose to pursue Giannis, then that’s a better gamble (although as great as he is, I don’t think his game will age well as he gets older).

What’s the Raptors timeline? They seem to not really have one right now - at least for a title.

[Diop]

i completely forgot Ingram was with the raptors

[Diop]

Raptors have made some questionable moves lately I.e. the Brandon Ingram and Jakob Poeltl trade. However, KD is extremely wrong timeline-wise. If they choose to pursue Giannis, then that’s a better gamble (although as great as he is, I don’t think his game will age well as he gets older).

What’s the Raptors timeline? They seem to not really have one right now - at least for a title.

wasn't there rumour they are after a "big fish" this offseason.

KD, poor previous season and old, is still a big fish