Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest"/KD too

[pingpongrac]

Because Haliburton is much better than Quickley and Siakam is better than Ingram.

And Giannis is miles better than all 5.

Giannis > Hali
Ingram = Siakm
Turner = Quickley

Delusion

Delusion is thinking the gap between Siakam and Ingram + Turner and Quickley is greater than the gap between Giannis and Haliburton. Giannis is a top 3-5 player — a true superstar in the league — whereas Haliburton is a borderline All-NBA player. Giannis is one of maybe 5 players that singlehandedly would elevate almost any team in the league to contender status. That is far more important than the extra defence that Siakam and Turner give the Pacers while Ingram and IQ are slightly better offensive players.

Haliburton being hella overrated on here. Before this playoff run I bet most people wouldn’t have even considered him a top 15 player in the league and now all of the sudden he’s basically as good as Giannis? Okay lol.

[Raps in 4]

Ya, Poeltl is a horrific fit with Giannis. The spacing will still suck bigtime with Scottie or Giannis.

Giannis is the smokescreen. We are going all in on Booker.

NGL, I would prefer Book over Giannis. Not cause he's a better player at all, but we likely could keep Scottie and it definitely makes us a better shooting team.

He's also younger. With the way Giannis plays, he doesn't have many productive years left.

[Scase]

I think what you need to try to incorporate into your evaluations is context. For example, BI was an efficient scorer in the two years when he played next to a legit point-guard (Jrue, Ball). He became less efficient when their pgs became Alvarado and CJ Mcollum, which, I think is pretty logical.

So where do we get this "legit point-guard" from? Cause it sure as hell isn't IQ. I'm not against revamping the entire roster if we snag Giannis, but I imagine that would take at least a couple years + more time to have everyone mesh, and then now you've got Giannis on a new contract/UFA. Unless you're just talking BI efficiency in general when next to a proper pg?

That said I don't think that holds a lot of water either, he's managed roughly the same efficiency with Ball/Jrue, as he did with CJ (LOL) McCollum. Maybe he just is what he is after 9 years in the league?

Well, there'd be a huge playmaking jump from Aldorado and McCollum to IQ/Shead/Giannis. With respect to 9 years, that's a long time I'll grant you, but Lowry, for example didn't emerge as a star until his 10th year, when he got more opportunity.

I guess the question is, is it more likely that he peaked at 22, or that he just couldn't deliver his best due to injuries and the worst roster construction I think I've ever seen. Look at what happened to Dyson Daniels once he ecaped that diseaster.

BI was playing 30-35mpg for pretty much his entire career since day 1, Lowry didn't break 30mpg until his 5th year. He was also the 24th OA pick, so it's not like he was a major feature on any team for quite some time. BI's USG% in his second year wouldn't be matched by Lowry until his 7th year, they just had very different journeys in the NBA so it's really hard to have the same level of potential breakout.

While BI taking a leap isn't impossible, those 2 guys had VERY different career trajectories. BI had pretty much every single chance possible, so it's pretty likely what we've seen to date, is who he is. And while I agree there'd be a big jump from the guys on NOP in his later years, IQ/Shead/Giannis are all WAY worse options as playmakers than Jrue, and like I mentioned, the delta in efficiency from when he played with Ball/Jrue and CJ/Jose is pretty much less than a percentage point, so I don't think IQ et al. would make much of a difference.

Ultimately the horrific shooting on this team would continue to be the biggest issue, well biggest behind health at least.

[Raps in 4]

And Giannis is miles better than all 5.

Giannis > Hali
Ingram = Siakm
Turner = Quickley

Delusion

Delusion is thinking the gap between Siakam and Ingram + Turner and Quickley is greater than the gap between Giannis and Haliburton. Giannis is a top 3-5 player — a true superstar in the league — whereas Haliburton is a borderline All-NBA player. Giannis is one of maybe 5 players that singlehandedly would elevate almost any team in the league to contender status. That is far more important than the extra defence that Siakam and Turner give the Pacers while Ingram and IQ are slightly better offensive players.

Haliburton being hella overrated on here. Before this playoff run I bet most people wouldn’t have even considered him a top 15 player in the league and now all of the sudden he’s basically as good as Giannis? Okay lol.

A borderline All-NBA player doesn't take his team to the Finals by beating Giannis, the #1 seed Cavs, and a solid Knicks team. Hali is a top-10 player.

[mdenny]

Rj, iq and Ingram are all above average ball handlers and above average passers. I think they fit giannis better than an elite point guard like Trae or lamelo because they don't need to be as ball dominant.

Plus it's generally hilarious on this board when ppl start talking about "real point guards".

Honestly....the potential chemistry between these 4 is near to ideal. It's really poetl that could be the problem. But he has value around the league. Shouldn't be hard to convert him into a better shooting big if necessary after a few months of test driving.

[Saul Goodman]

If you somehow land on


MLE
Giannis
Ingram/ochai
Barrett/walter
Quickley/shead


You gotta do it. That team has a legit a chance as any in the east next season

[ForeverTFC]

Giannis is the smokescreen. We are going all in on Booker.

NGL, I would prefer Book over Giannis. Not cause he's a better player at all, but we likely could keep Scottie and it definitely makes us a better shooting team.

He's also younger. With the way Giannis plays, he doesn't have many productive years left.

I'm a big Booker fan and would be ecstatic if we got him. But Giannis is on a different level. 3 years of prime Giannis probably results in higher odds of a championship vs 5-7 years of prime Book. Especially if you consider that they likely come at a similar cost.

[TheRaptor!]

Delusion

Delusion is thinking the gap between Siakam and Ingram + Turner and Quickley is greater than the gap between Giannis and Haliburton. Giannis is a top 3-5 player — a true superstar in the league — whereas Haliburton is a borderline All-NBA player. Giannis is one of maybe 5 players that singlehandedly would elevate almost any team in the league to contender status. That is far more important than the extra defence that Siakam and Turner give the Pacers while Ingram and IQ are slightly better offensive players.

Haliburton being hella overrated on here. Before this playoff run I bet most people wouldn’t have even considered him a top 15 player in the league and now all of the sudden he’s basically as good as Giannis? Okay lol.

A borderline All-NBA player doesn't take his team to the Finals by beating Giannis, the #1 seed Cavs, and a solid Knicks team. Hali is a top-10 player.

LMMMMMAAAAOOOOO

I see OKC 4-1 gentleman's sweeping the Pacers with Haliburton completely exposed as the number 1 most overrated star in the NBA

[Raps in 4]

Delusion is thinking the gap between Siakam and Ingram + Turner and Quickley is greater than the gap between Giannis and Haliburton. Giannis is a top 3-5 player — a true superstar in the league — whereas Haliburton is a borderline All-NBA player. Giannis is one of maybe 5 players that singlehandedly would elevate almost any team in the league to contender status. That is far more important than the extra defence that Siakam and Turner give the Pacers while Ingram and IQ are slightly better offensive players.

Haliburton being hella overrated on here. Before this playoff run I bet most people wouldn’t have even considered him a top 15 player in the league and now all of the sudden he’s basically as good as Giannis? Okay lol.

A borderline All-NBA player doesn't take his team to the Finals by beating Giannis, the #1 seed Cavs, and a solid Knicks team. Hali is a top-10 player.

LMMMMMAAAAOOOOO

I see OKC 4-1 gentleman's sweeping the Pacers with Haliburton completely exposed as the number 1 most overrated star in the NBA

The stats say he's a top-10 player. The results say he's a top-10 player. But you go on ahead living in your delusion.

[OhCanada]

KD can be acquired. Its not a real big price. He can also make us a contender.

[TheRaptor!]

A borderline All-NBA player doesn't take his team to the Finals by beating Giannis, the #1 seed Cavs, and a solid Knicks team. Hali is a top-10 player.

LMMMMMAAAAOOOOO

I see OKC 4-1 gentleman's sweeping the Pacers with Haliburton completely exposed as the number 1 most overrated star in the NBA

The stats say he's a top-10 player. The results say he's a top-10 player. But you go on ahead living in your delusion.

Top 10 player but not even ECF MVP

Had 8 points one game in the playoffs, but yet im the one who is delusional

[PhilBlackson]

If you somehow land on


MLE
Giannis
Ingram/ochai
Barrett/walter
Quickley/shead


You gotta do it. That team has a legit a chance as any in the east next season

I don't think Poeltl has been included in most trade packages that have been floated but nonetheless, if healthy I'll take that team over the Pacers.

[Raps in 4]

LMMMMMAAAAOOOOO

I see OKC 4-1 gentleman's sweeping the Pacers with Haliburton completely exposed as the number 1 most overrated star in the NBA

The stats say he's a top-10 player. The results say he's a top-10 player. But you go on ahead living in your delusion.

Top 10 player but not even ECF MVP

Had 8 points one game in the playoffs, but yet im the one who is delusional

It's almost as if PPG isn't the best way to determine impact.

Also, Steph didn't win the FMVP in 2015 either. I suppose that meant he was a borderline All-NBA player as well? Or perhaps Tatum not winning the ECF or Finals MVP last season meant he too was only a borderline All-NBA player? Or perhaps Giannis losing in the first round means he's a borderline All-NBA player? See how stupid this is?

[nivisi9]

I think Giannis ends up a Raptor due to some key factors:

1)
The Team he's traded to must have enough remaining pieces to remain a percieved contender following trade.

2)
Giannis likely wants to remain in East which is much weaker / more likely route to championship ( possibly reported)

3)
Giannis will likely have some say in preferred destination.
a) relationship with Masai b) reportedly interested in Toronto

4)
MOST IMPORTANTLY: A Management team WILLING to trade 4-5 yrs WORTH of picks + assets for a 31 yr old star.

I think 4 is the most underrated/least discussed factor.
If we consider any of the first 3 to be true, this already heavily narrows destinations.
However even if we were to include teams like the Spurs etc. , are we 100% certain these teams want to trade all future picks + assets for Giannis? I'm not fully convinced these young teams loaded with assets + bright future are all in on trading for Giannis.

We also don't know if factors such as 3# could weigh even heavier for a guy like Giannis?

Is it even more important his relationship with Masai then we credit? wanting to be part of his organization? A competently managed franchise with good reputation? wouldn't surprise me.

Toronto seems to comfortably check all boxes #1-4 and is why I think is most likely destination.

What are your thoughts after aggregating those key factors, and if reports supporting them are true?

[metafisical]

Giannis and 3 unprotected firsts for Poeltl and maybe another garbage contract. That's the most I'm prepared to give up for a washed up Giannis.

But as soon as he gets traded here, I'm going to change my opinion and consider him a GOAT. Unless you are on the Raptors, you are worse than a scrub, even a prime MJ.

[pingpongrac]

Delusion

Delusion is thinking the gap between Siakam and Ingram + Turner and Quickley is greater than the gap between Giannis and Haliburton. Giannis is a top 3-5 player — a true superstar in the league — whereas Haliburton is a borderline All-NBA player. Giannis is one of maybe 5 players that singlehandedly would elevate almost any team in the league to contender status. That is far more important than the extra defence that Siakam and Turner give the Pacers while Ingram and IQ are slightly better offensive players.

Haliburton being hella overrated on here. Before this playoff run I bet most people wouldn’t have even considered him a top 15 player in the league and now all of the sudden he’s basically as good as Giannis? Okay lol.

A borderline All-NBA player doesn't take his team to the Finals by beating Giannis, the #1 seed Cavs, and a solid Knicks team. Hali is a top-10 player.

Haliburton
18/6/12 on 53 TS% against the Bucks
17/5/7 on 67 TS% against the Cavs
21/6/11 on 57 TS% against the Knicks
19/6/10 on 58 TS% overall

Siakam
20/6/2 on 63 TS% against the Bucks
18/6/4 on 60 TS% against the Cavs
25/5/4 on 60 TS% against the Knicks
21/6/3 on 61 TS% overall

Turner
17/5/2 on 65 TS% against the Bucks
16/7/1 on 64 TS% against the Cavs
13/3/2 on 66 TS% against the Knicks
15/5/1 on 65 TS% overall

Nembhard
15/3/5 on 61 TS% against the Bucks
14/3/7 on 65 TS% against the Cavs
10/3/4 on 50 TS% against the Knicks
13/3/5 on 58 TS% overall

Nesmith
15/6/2 on 69 TS% against the Bucks
14/7/2 on 66 TS% against the Cavs
13/4/1 on 67 TS% against the Knicks
14/6/1 on 67 TS% overall

Indiana has had one of the most balanced offences we've seen from a playoff team since the Spurs in the early 2010s while everyone has stepped up on the defensive end (even Haliburton himself) and the bench has been very productive (35 PPG, 14 REB, 7 AST on 61 TS% in ~80 MPG). Haliburton had a great ECF where both he and Siakam did the heavy lifting, but he has hardly "took his team to the Finals". It has been an entire team effort and everyone has had their moments in getting the Pacers to where they are now. Even just in the ECF, the Pacers took G1 in large part because of Nesmith's massive Q4 (20 PTS on 6/7 shooting which came entirely in the final 5 minutes) then Siakam dropped 39 PTS in G2 (with Turner chipping in 13 PTS in Q4 to seal the deal), 30 in G4 (but people just admittedly remember Haliburton's historic 32/12/15 night with 0 TOV) and 31 in G6 (with Nembhard chipping in 14/3/8 with 6 STL + Toppin and Bryant combining for 29 PTS on 10/16 shooting off the bench).

[NoBias]

BI would be the perfect complimentary player next to Giannis. If we were to pull it off, I think a lot of people would be surprised on how they’ll play off each other.

[niQ]

I think Giannis ends up a Raptor due to some key factors:

1)
The Team he's traded to must have enough remaining pieces to remain a percieved contender following trade.

2)
Giannis likely wants to remain in East which is much weaker / more likely route to championship ( possibly reported)

3)
Giannis will likely have some say in preferred destination.
a) relationship with Masai b) reportedly interested in Toronto

4)
MOST IMPORTANTLY: A Management team WILLING to trade 4-5 yrs WORTH of picks + assets for a 31 yr old star.

I think 4 is the most underrated/least discussed factor.
If we consider any of the first 3 to be true, this already heavily narrows destinations.
However even if we were to include teams like the Spurs etc. , are we 100% certain these teams want to trade all future picks + assets for Giannis? I'm not fully convinced these young teams loaded with assets + bright future are all in on trading for Giannis.

We also don't know if factors such as 3# could weigh even heavier for a guy like Giannis?

Is it even more important his relationship with Masai then we credit? wanting to be part of his organization? A competently managed franchise with good reputation? wouldn't surprise me.

Toronto seems to comfortably check all boxes #1-4 and is why I think is most likely destination.

What are your thoughts after aggregating those key factors, and if reports supporting them are true?

Merged with everything Giannis thread.

[TheRaptor!]

The stats say he's a top-10 player. The results say he's a top-10 player. But you go on ahead living in your delusion.

Top 10 player but not even ECF MVP

Had 8 points one game in the playoffs, but yet im the one who is delusional

It's almost as if PPG isn't the best way to determine impact.

Also, Steph didn't win the FMVP in 2015 either. I suppose that meant he was a borderline All-NBA player as well? Or perhaps Tatum not winning the ECF or Finals MVP last season meant he too was only a borderline All-NBA player? Or perhaps Giannis losing in the first round means he's a borderline All-NBA player? See how stupid this is?

LOL aight man, you do you

He's a top 5 player if u want.

[The Warrior]

He come, he stay.

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