BOS: 4 trades, save $56M with DAL, ATL, SAC, LAL, CHI, DET

[djFan71]

Taking $ savings and number of trades to the extreme... Boston total after all 4 trades.

In: Lonzo, Marshall, 27, SAC 26 2nd, CHA 27 2nd, 2029 2nd (worse of MIL, NYK) from DET, $56.5M in saving
Out: Jrue, KP, Hauser, Tillman, 28

This is getting 2 young-ish players (both 27) I really like, adding some future 2nd round picks, and moving up 1 spot in this draft.
Plenty of space to resign Horford and Kornet while still being under the tax.

Lonzo has the knee risk, but he's a great defender / passer / 3pt shooter when healthy.
Marshall is a buy low now. Hope this year's shooting was the anomaly, not last year's.

I'm not sure I'd do it from BOS end, but if both guys pan out, it's a coup. And I did all the work, so... here it is.
Bulls and Hawks parts are the ones I'm least sure the other teams would do.

Trade 1
------------
BOS in: Gafford, Marshall, Mann, Niang
BOS out: Jrue, KP, Tillman

DAL in: Jrue, Tillman
DAL out: Gafford, Marshall, Martin

ATL in: KP, Martin
ATL out: Mann, Niang

Saves $18.5M

Trade 2
-----------
Hauser to SAC for SAC 26 2nd, CHA 27 2nd
Saves $10 M

Trade 3
--------
BOS in: Lonzo, 2029 2nd (worse of MIL, NYK)
BOS out: Mann, Niang, 28

CHI in: Mann, Fontecchio, 28
CHI out: Lonzo

DET in: Niang
DET out: Fontecchio, 2029 2nd (worse of MIL, NYK)
Saves $13.7M

Bulls sell on Lonzo and get a pick for taking on some $. Does the 2nd from DET go to CHI instead of BOS???
Pistons get a tough vet for playoffs for $0.1M less.

Trade 4
-------
BKN in: Knecht, Vanderbilt
BKN out: 27

LAL in: Gafford
LAL out: Knecht, Vanderbilt

BOS in: 27
BOS out: Gafford
Saves $14.3M

Lakers get Luka's lob threat / off Vanderbilt contract.
BKN gets Knecht and eats salary that doesn't matter for one of their extraneous late 1st picks

[SlimShady83]

Yes to Lakers for getting Gafford esp if it's only the cost of Knecht/Vando, I just didn't think any team would want Vando's contract?

[ChettheJet]

Bulls are going to pass. They have even less room on the roster getting two players back for one then you hand them another draft pick/guaranteed contract and #28 has no chance of getting on the floor. Besides that they have a younger Dosunmu who they could resign instead of taking on 2 years of Mann. Lonzo is signed to a very team friendly deal and he's happy in CHI so there's no incentive to trade him unless it's for some much better player or a whole lot of potential and that's not Fontecchio.

[BeiBeau]

Dallas passes immediately. Jrue is not very positive on that contract and Marshall/Gafford is extremely positive. That’s damn near a Derrick white package. Additionally, Dallas should not be trading Marshall. Dallas needs to improve their financials giving up Marshall who is one of the best value contracts in the league would be dumb for them.

Marshall may have shot bad from 3 last year, but for 9 million his finishing, defense, and on ball creation are all fantastic. He’s not a buy low candidate because his value isn’t low.

[hugepatsfan]

I feel like BRK is going to want more than Knecht for giving up a pick AND taking on Vandy's 3 years.

I don't see CHI trading Ball for Mann even with a late pick coming back. They've invested a lot in Lonzo and I think they're very happy with his game and fit there.

Even if BOS has to keep Mann over Lonzo and stuck with Vandy, you still have them in range to duck the tax. Mann might be dump-able with the 2nds you have them getting here too, which gets you back to the same salary place with Vandy in place of Ball, which obviously you like way less I'm sure but might be necessary and isn't really the end of the world.

I love the creative ideas though. BOS's salary situation is pretty ugly right now with the Tatum injury, but I think many have overstated how tough it would be to resolve because they focus on smaller deals where they just dump huge sums of money on BRK and pay through the nose. I think the BOS salary cut will be much more multi faceted in scenarios like this with succession of deals. End of the day, whether it's Jrue, Porzingis, Hauser or the way less likely options of Brown/White/Pritchard, BOS is going to look to shed money by moving guys who are good to very good players still, so they'll have options to wind the money down like this vs. just dumping them on rebuilding teams who won't place any value on them on the players.

[hugepatsfan]

Dallas passes immediately. Jrue is not very positive on that contract and Marshall/Gafford is extremely positive. That’s damn near a Derrick white package. Additionally, Dallas should not be trading Marshall. Dallas needs to improve their financials giving up Marshall who is one of the best value contracts in the league would be dumb for them.

Believing Jrue is negative value and Gafford/Marshall is positive value is fine depending on how you weigh on court performance vs. financials. Jrue is still a very high level player - top 3 on a good team level - whereas Marshall/Gafford are 5th starters on a top heavy roster or good bench player level caliber on a good team. Jrue's contract is high salary and long term though, so obviously a factor to weigh and might drag that negative.

Gafford/Marshall doesn't come close to White though. White is that same level player as Jrue except the long term contract isn't at all negative because it's mostly prime years. That's a big value gap to bridge there.

[BeiBeau]

Dallas passes immediately. Jrue is not very positive on that contract and Marshall/Gafford is extremely positive. That’s damn near a Derrick white package. Additionally, Dallas should not be trading Marshall. Dallas needs to improve their financials giving up Marshall who is one of the best value contracts in the league would be dumb for them.

Believing Jrue is negative value and Gafford/Marshall is positive value is fine depending on how you weigh on court performance vs. financials. Jrue is still a very high level player - top 3 on a good team level - whereas Marshall/Gafford are 5th starters on a top heavy roster or good bench player level caliber on a good team. Jrue's contract is high salary and long term though, so obviously a factor to weigh and might drag that negative.

Gafford/Marshall doesn't come close to White though. White is that same level player as Jrue except the long term contract isn't at all negative because it's mostly prime years. That's a big value gap to bridge there.

Everyone always overvalues their own players. A high end starting center plus a top 5 6 man in the league is only a solid pick or 2 away from a 3rd best player. Especially if Boston would be saving tons of future and current money.

[hugepatsfan]

Dallas passes immediately. Jrue is not very positive on that contract and Marshall/Gafford is extremely positive. That’s damn near a Derrick white package. Additionally, Dallas should not be trading Marshall. Dallas needs to improve their financials giving up Marshall who is one of the best value contracts in the league would be dumb for them.

Believing Jrue is negative value and Gafford/Marshall is positive value is fine depending on how you weigh on court performance vs. financials. Jrue is still a very high level player - top 3 on a good team level - whereas Marshall/Gafford are 5th starters on a top heavy roster or good bench player level caliber on a good team. Jrue's contract is high salary and long term though, so obviously a factor to weigh and might drag that negative.

Gafford/Marshall doesn't come close to White though. White is that same level player as Jrue except the long term contract isn't at all negative because it's mostly prime years. That's a big value gap to bridge there.

Everyone always overvalues their own players. A high end starting center plus a top 5 6 man in the league is only a solid pick or 2 away from a 3rd best player. Especially if Boston would be saving tons of future and current money.

High end starting center is a pretty high end evaluation of Gafford, speaking of overvaluing own players. If that is your assessment of Gafford though, then I do agree that it's a fair deal. Although, if that truly is his value, then you can't really pitch long term salary savings as part of the deal because he's an expiring deal and a "high end starting center" would be paid handsomely on an extension so BOS would either be forgoing the high end starting center by letting him walk or the long term salary savings if they keep him. So you can't pitch both as part of the value proposition.

[Texas Chuck]

Dallas passes immediately. Jrue is not very positive on that contract and Marshall/Gafford is extremely positive. That’s damn near a Derrick white package. Additionally, Dallas should not be trading Marshall. Dallas needs to improve their financials giving up Marshall who is one of the best value contracts in the league would be dumb for them.

Believing Jrue is negative value and Gafford/Marshall is positive value is fine depending on how you weigh on court performance vs. financials. Jrue is still a very high level player - top 3 on a good team level - whereas Marshall/Gafford are 5th starters on a top heavy roster or good bench player level caliber on a good team. Jrue's contract is high salary and long term though, so obviously a factor to weigh and might drag that negative.

Gafford/Marshall doesn't come close to White though. White is that same level player as Jrue except the long term contract isn't at all negative because it's mostly prime years. That's a big value gap to bridge there.

Everyone always overvalues their own players. A high end starting center plus a top 5 6 man in the league is only a solid pick or 2 away from a 3rd best player. Especially if Boston would be saving tons of future and current money.

Everyone does overvalue their own players if you believe Gafford to be a high end starting center. He is a high end backup, or low end starter. Marshall probably isn't a top 5 bench player either.

And Gafford/Knife don't come close to White. Not close.

[hugepatsfan]

Believing Jrue is negative value and Gafford/Marshall is positive value is fine depending on how you weigh on court performance vs. financials. Jrue is still a very high level player - top 3 on a good team level - whereas Marshall/Gafford are 5th starters on a top heavy roster or good bench player level caliber on a good team. Jrue's contract is high salary and long term though, so obviously a factor to weigh and might drag that negative.

Gafford/Marshall doesn't come close to White though. White is that same level player as Jrue except the long term contract isn't at all negative because it's mostly prime years. That's a big value gap to bridge there.

Everyone always overvalues their own players. A high end starting center plus a top 5 6 man in the league is only a solid pick or 2 away from a 3rd best player. Especially if Boston would be saving tons of future and current money.

Everyone does overvalue their own players if you believe Gafford to be a high end starting center. He is a high end backup, or low end starter. Marshall probably isn't a top 5 bench player either.

And Gafford/Knife don't come close to White. Not close.

I think he meant top 5 -6in a team's rotation as opposed to top 5 in bench in the league. But yeah, agree it's not close to White as a package. Honestly, it's only close to Jrue because of the contract/age situation with him heavily dragging value down.

[Texas Chuck]

Everyone always overvalues their own players. A high end starting center plus a top 5 6 man in the league is only a solid pick or 2 away from a 3rd best player. Especially if Boston would be saving tons of future and current money.

Everyone does overvalue their own players if you believe Gafford to be a high end starting center. He is a high end backup, or low end starter. Marshall probably isn't a top 5 bench player either.

And Gafford/Knife don't come close to White. Not close.

I think he meant top 5 -6in a team's rotation as opposed to top 5 in bench in the league. But yeah, agree it's not close to White as a package. Honestly, it's only close to Jrue because of the contract/age situation with him heavily dragging value down.

No I think he meant Marshall is one of the top 5 6th men in the league. Because that fits his thought that Gafford is a high end starting center.

But either way I don't believe that package to be some high value package for Dallas. Its multiple 2nds type return if they parted them out imo.

[daoneandonly]

So the consensus amongst experts is Boston would likely have to include picks to unload Jrue, but Dallas gives up two valuable pieces in Gaff and Marshall for him

[Texas Chuck]

So the consensus amongst experts is Boston would likely have to include picks to unload Jrue, but Dallas gives up two valuable pieces in Gaff and Marshall for him

Links?

I have Jrue as the best basketball player of the three. So in order to get the on court upgrade Dallas would be giving financial value to Boston. Seems like a pretty logical way for a team with no assets to provide value.

Now I think the bigger issue is a lot of Mavs fans have collectively decided Jrue is washed. Which makes me wonder which Dallas media person has started this narrative. Because it really doesn't make sense for everyone to have independently decided a good player is no longer very good.

[daoneandonly]

So the consensus amongst experts is Boston would likely have to include picks to unload Jrue, but Dallas gives up two valuable pieces in Gaff and Marshall for him

Links?

I have Jrue as the best basketball player of the three. So in order to get the on court upgrade Dallas would be giving financial value to Boston. Seems like a pretty logical way for a team with no assets to provide value.

Now I think the bigger issue is a lot of Mavs fans have collectively decided Jrue is washed. Which makes me wonder which Dallas media person has started this narrative. Because it really doesn't make sense for everyone to have independently decided a good player is no longer very good.

https://www.celticslife.com/2025/05/celtics-reportedly-may-have-to-attach.html
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/25198181-nba-execs-think-celtics-would-have-attach-incentive-any-jrue-holiday-trade

I think its the fact that he si what he is offensively, but defense was his calling card. It was nowhere to be found against New York in the playoffs

[Texas Chuck]

Thanks for links. Looks like its just Jake Fischer's take. Not saying he's wrong as he's clearly improved or Stein wouldn't work so closely with him, but I've seen other guys I'd say have similar credibility to him say it wouldn't be.

As far as his defense in that series, not sure what that's based on exactly? But the Knicks offense was worse against Boston than they were in the RS and they were against the Pacers. And none of the Knicks perimeter players went off in that series showing that Jrue specifically was getting torched.

Is he peak Jrue Holiday? No. But you can't get that guy for Thompson/Gafford/Marshall lol.

[djFan71]

I feel like BRK is going to want more than Knecht for giving up a pick AND taking on Vandy's 3 years.

I don't see CHI trading Ball for Mann even with a late pick coming back. They've invested a lot in Lonzo and I think they're very happy with his game and fit there.

Even if BOS has to keep Mann over Lonzo and stuck with Vandy, you still have them in range to duck the tax. Mann might be dump-able with the 2nds you have them getting here too, which gets you back to the same salary place with Vandy in place of Ball, which obviously you like way less I'm sure but might be necessary and isn't really the end of the world.

I love the creative ideas though. BOS's salary situation is pretty ugly right now with the Tatum injury, but I think many have overstated how tough it would be to resolve because they focus on smaller deals where they just dump huge sums of money on BRK and pay through the nose. I think the BOS salary cut will be much more multi faceted in scenarios like this with succession of deals. End of the day, whether it's Jrue, Porzingis, Hauser or the way less likely options of Brown/White/Pritchard, BOS is going to look to shed money by moving guys who are good to very good players still, so they'll have options to wind the money down like this vs. just dumping them on rebuilding teams who won't place any value on them on the players.

Yeah, those were my 2 sketchiest deals for sure. I'm OK keeping Mann and have it be Vincent or Maxi instead of Vanderbilt (or even Vandy, tbh). You can finagle from there, like you said. But, I went full bore, lol.

My goal was to try to target young(ish) guys I actually want rather than just guys I'd accept as dumps. And I think that's possible. Brad isn't going to go this far, most likely, but If you end up with Marshall, Mann and an expiring that fits in the MLE and are very near the tax range, you have stuff to work with in future trades.

It'd be annoying to be so close to the tax and not fully duck it, but at the same time if that's your plan for the rest of Tatum's career, even with the repeater on say $10-15M over in salary, it's not the end of the world if the new owners are willing to pay.

[daoneandonly]

Thanks for links. Looks like its just Jake Fischer's take. Not saying he's wrong as he's clearly improved or Stein wouldn't work so closely with him, but I've seen other guys I'd say have similar credibility to him say it wouldn't be.

As far as his defense in that series, not sure what that's based on exactly? But the Knicks offense was worse against Boston than they were in the RS and they were against the Pacers. And none of the Knicks perimeter players went off in that series showing that Jrue specifically was getting torched.

Is he peak Jrue Holiday? No. But you can't get that guy for Thompson/Gafford/Marshall lol.

That's part of the issue, OP doesnt even have Thompson in the proposal unless there's a counter I missed. Thompson should be in any Jrue trade with Marshall or Gaff staying put

[BeiBeau]

Believing Jrue is negative value and Gafford/Marshall is positive value is fine depending on how you weigh on court performance vs. financials. Jrue is still a very high level player - top 3 on a good team level - whereas Marshall/Gafford are 5th starters on a top heavy roster or good bench player level caliber on a good team. Jrue's contract is high salary and long term though, so obviously a factor to weigh and might drag that negative.

Gafford/Marshall doesn't come close to White though. White is that same level player as Jrue except the long term contract isn't at all negative because it's mostly prime years. That's a big value gap to bridge there.

Everyone always overvalues their own players. A high end starting center plus a top 5 6 man in the league is only a solid pick or 2 away from a 3rd best player. Especially if Boston would be saving tons of future and current money.

Everyone does overvalue their own players if you believe Gafford to be a high end starting center. He is a high end backup, or low end starter. Marshall probably isn't a top 5 bench player either.

And Gafford/Knife don't come close to White. Not close.

Backup is a crazy take. There are not 20 centers in the league better than Gafford right now.

[Apz]

Everyone always overvalues their own players. A high end starting center plus a top 5 6 man in the league is only a solid pick or 2 away from a 3rd best player. Especially if Boston would be saving tons of future and current money.

Everyone does overvalue their own players if you believe Gafford to be a high end starting center. He is a high end backup, or low end starter. Marshall probably isn't a top 5 bench player either.

And Gafford/Knife don't come close to White. Not close.

Backup is a crazy take. There are not 20 centers in the league better than Gafford right now.

Hard to say. But he was Livelys backup/rotation, and mavs were mainly negative with him on the floor when they went to the finals. So I dont see him as a starter, even if he lands in lakers they need 1 more if they want things to work

[theBigLip]

Why is Niang good for Detroit? And worth us attaching a second to Fontecchio to get him? He can shoot but a crappy defender. Seems like a lateral move at best.