Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest"/KD too

[niQ]

Just once in my Raptors loving life please for the love of god happen..

Just once? We got that when we traded for Kawhi.

[Raps in 4]

Yep.

Ingram and Siakam are the same tier of player. Both are all-star caliber guys who might make an all-nba team if the stars align.
Quick and Turner are both guys who are 4th/5th starters. I like Turner, but he has just as many flaws as IQ does. He is a center who averaged 6.5rpg and is not some elite defender. Blocks shots but isn't a great defender by any means.

You add Giannis to this team and we are easily at Indiana's level.

I wonder if you had this same opinion back when Siakam was a Raptor and BI wasn't. I'm doubtful.

Siakam is a better player than Ingram. He's actually available to play for an entire season and playoffs, and he can actually play defence. And even on the offensive end, he's easier to plug into any system than Ingram (neither one is a first option, so that matters).

It's so funny reading this thread and seeing Raptor fans convince themselves Ingram is a top 15 player now and Quickley is better than Myles Turner and Giannis is better than Jokic.

Especially since it's the same posters who didn't have those opinions before these players became Raptors/were rumoured to be trade targets. It's just pure homerism.

[Raps in 4]

Wouldn’t the safer path to contention be acquiring KD? It’ll require less assets to get him and he’s not slowing down for atleast another couple of seasons. If some package with Barrett, a prospect, picks and filler can get it done, that’s something the team needs to make. Its a more seamless fit too.

Quickley
Ingram
KD
Barnes
Poeltl

Lots of balance, defense, shooting and playmaking here that can easily compete in a conference that’s weak at the moment.

Depends how you look at it...For Durant you are still giving up the #9th pick, Prolly another future pick and some good players to match salaries....For a smaller window to compete....Maybe 2 years max....With Giannis you have him for 5 years at least + if his game ages gracefully could be longer...

If the report is true and we are "Big Fish Hunting" you got to think that Giannis/KD are top 2 on Masai list though...

I'd bet money his game doesn't age gracefully. His effectiveness comes almost entirely from his strength and athleticism. I think he starts declining visibly in 2-3 years.

He'd also cost a lot more than KD.

If the cost is the same or similar, then yeah, of course, I'd rather go after Giannis.

[tsherkin]

I'd bet money his game doesn't age gracefully. His effectiveness comes almost entirely from his strength and athleticism. I think he starts declining visibly in 2-3 years.

Possible. Though to his credit, he was developing his middie quite successfully this season, so who knows...

[Clutch0z24]

Wouldn’t the safer path to contention be acquiring KD? It’ll require less assets to get him and he’s not slowing down for atleast another couple of seasons. If some package with Barrett, a prospect, picks and filler can get it done, that’s something the team needs to make. Its a more seamless fit too.

Quickley
Ingram
KD
Barnes
Poeltl

Lots of balance, defense, shooting and playmaking here that can easily compete in a conference that’s weak at the moment.

Depends how you look at it...For Durant you are still giving up the #9th pick, Prolly another future pick and some good players to match salaries....For a smaller window to compete....Maybe 2 years max....With Giannis you have him for 5 years at least + if his game ages gracefully could be longer...

If the report is true and we are "Big Fish Hunting" you got to think that Giannis/KD are top 2 on Masai list though...

I'd bet money his game doesn't age gracefully. His effectiveness comes almost entirely from his strength and athleticism. I think he starts declining visibly in 2-3 years.

He'd also cost a lot more than KD.

If the cost is the same or similar, then yeah, of course, I'd rather go after Giannis.

We won't get Durant for pennies either...He will cost us some things....Won't be as much as Giannis mind you...But the window with KD is very small....And you are also hoping Barnes can be an outstanding playoff performer...We have no idea about that yet...

As for Giannis he is obviously the big fish Windy was talking about in that pod....It all depends how Masai views Giannis in what he will be willing to give up for him....And we all know Masai has been foaming at the mouth for Giannis for a decade now...

[YogurtProducer]

Yep.

Ingram and Siakam are the same tier of player. Both are all-star caliber guys who might make an all-nba team if the stars align.
Quick and Turner are both guys who are 4th/5th starters. I like Turner, but he has just as many flaws as IQ does. He is a center who averaged 6.5rpg and is not some elite defender. Blocks shots but isn't a great defender by any means.

You add Giannis to this team and we are easily at Indiana's level.

I wonder if you had this same opinion back when Siakam was a Raptor and BI wasn't. I'm doubtful.

Siakam is a better player than Ingram. He's actually available to play for an entire season and playoffs, and he can actually play defence. And even on the offensive end, he's easier to plug into any system than Ingram (neither one is a first option, so that matters).

It's so funny reading this thread and seeing Raptor fans convince themselves Ingram is a top 15 player now and Quickley is better than Myles Turner and Giannis is better than Jokic.

Who said Ingram is a top 15 player?

Who said Giannis is better than Jokic?

Who said Quickley is better than Turner?

Oh, no one. You made all that up. Shocking.

[TravisScott55]

I wonder if you had this same opinion back when Siakam was a Raptor and BI wasn't. I'm doubtful.

Siakam is a better player than Ingram. He's actually available to play for an entire season and playoffs, and he can actually play defence. And even on the offensive end, he's easier to plug into any system than Ingram (neither one is a first option, so that matters).

It's so funny reading this thread and seeing Raptor fans convince themselves Ingram is a top 15 player now and Quickley is better than Myles Turner and Giannis is better than Jokic.

Who said Ingram is a top 15 player?

Who said Giannis is better than Jokic?

Who said Quickley is better than Turner?

Oh, no one. You made all that up. Shocking.

Read the thread bucko. Saying Giannis can bring Ingram and bums to the finals means he must be better than Jokic, A dude said Quickley is on the same level as Myles Turner, and Giannis and Ingram is the best team in the east, which mean Ingram must be a top 15 player.

[YogurtProducer]

Delusion is thinking the gap between Siakam and Ingram + Turner and Quickley is greater than the gap between Giannis and Haliburton. Giannis is a top 3-5 player — a true superstar in the league — whereas Haliburton is a borderline All-NBA player. Giannis is one of maybe 5 players that singlehandedly would elevate almost any team in the league to contender status. That is far more important than the extra defence that Siakam and Turner give the Pacers while Ingram and IQ are slightly better offensive players.

Haliburton being hella overrated on here. Before this playoff run I bet most people wouldn’t have even considered him a top 15 player in the league and now all of the sudden he’s basically as good as Giannis? Okay lol.

Yep.

Ingram and Siakam are the same tier of player. Both are all-star caliber guys who might make an all-nba team if the stars align.
Quick and Turner are both guys who are 4th/5th starters. I like Turner, but he has just as many flaws as IQ does. He is a center who averaged 6.5rpg and is not some elite defender. Blocks shots but isn't a great defender by any means.

You add Giannis to this team and we are easily at Indiana's level.

I wonder if you had this same opinion back when Siakam was a Raptor and BI wasn't. I'm doubtful.

Siakam is a better player than Ingram. He's actually available to play for an entire season and playoffs, and he can actually play defence. And even on the offensive end, he's easier to plug into any system than Ingram (neither one is a first option, so that matters).

Sure, tell me what I thought before

I was always of the opinion that Siakam and Ingram are similar tiered players. I would give the nod to Siakam simply based off health, but Ingram definitely has a higher ceiling (and lower floor due to health).

Siakam also isnt easier to plug into any system. Ingram is a superior shooter and is a shot taker/maker. Siakam needs a more specific space-y system for him to succeed. I

[YogurtProducer]

It's so funny reading this thread and seeing Raptor fans convince themselves Ingram is a top 15 player now and Quickley is better than Myles Turner and Giannis is better than Jokic.

Who said Ingram is a top 15 player?

Who said Giannis is better than Jokic?

Who said Quickley is better than Turner?

Oh, no one. You made all that up. Shocking.

Read the thread bucko. Saying Giannis can bring Ingram and bums to the finals means he must be better than Jokic, A dude said Quickley is on the same level as Myles Turner, and Giannis and Ingram is the best team in the east, which mean Ingram must be a top 15 player.

That is a lot of assumptions to make.

Saying Giannis can take our team to the finals =/= Ingram is a top 15 player. That is one hell of a leap with zero logic behind it.

Also, how does Jokic factor into any of this? Since Haliburton and Siakam went to the finals are they better than Jokic?

[TravisScott55]

Who said Ingram is a top 15 player?

Who said Giannis is better than Jokic?

Who said Quickley is better than Turner?

Oh, no one. You made all that up. Shocking.

Read the thread bucko. Saying Giannis can bring Ingram and bums to the finals means he must be better than Jokic, A dude said Quickley is on the same level as Myles Turner, and Giannis and Ingram is the best team in the east, which mean Ingram must be a top 15 player.

That is a lot of assumptions to make.

Saying Giannis can take our team to the finals =/= Ingram is a top 15 player. That is one hell of a leap with zero logic behind it.

Also, how does Jokic factor into any of this? Since Haliburton and Siakam went to the finals are they better than Jokic?

"I am not saying the Raptors are that good, but I think Giannis can take them to the finals. You thinking that means I am saying they are so good is you making assumptions."

[Clutch0z24]

Yep.

Ingram and Siakam are the same tier of player. Both are all-star caliber guys who might make an all-nba team if the stars align.
Quick and Turner are both guys who are 4th/5th starters. I like Turner, but he has just as many flaws as IQ does. He is a center who averaged 6.5rpg and is not some elite defender. Blocks shots but isn't a great defender by any means.

You add Giannis to this team and we are easily at Indiana's level.

I wonder if you had this same opinion back when Siakam was a Raptor and BI wasn't. I'm doubtful.

Siakam is a better player than Ingram. He's actually available to play for an entire season and playoffs, and he can actually play defence. And even on the offensive end, he's easier to plug into any system than Ingram (neither one is a first option, so that matters).

It's so funny reading this thread and seeing Raptor fans convince themselves Ingram is a top 15 player now and Quickley is better than Myles Turner and Giannis is better than Jokic.

Ingram is not close to top 15 but he would be an elite 2nd option if healthy beside Giannis....Fits Giannis game to a T....It would be like a upgraded Middleton....As for Quick...Hes no where near the impact of Turner but Quickley does also fit Giannis style of play....If we get Giannis we would be 1 stretch big away from doing damage....We also have no idea which vets would join our team and buy out options if we land Giannis...

Could get Lopez/Horford types on the low...Which could help shape the team more....But a start with Giannis/BI/Quickley/Yak/Dick or Barrett/Walter/Mogbo/Shead is a good start....What comes after will be Masai job and Masai has done a good job adding the right players to stars in the past....

[OakleyDokely]

Looney wasn't starting in almost half the games he played that postseason. He also barely averaged 20 mpg. At the very least we'd have to diminish Poeltl's role on the team, which is not ideal.

Poeltl isn't a 38-40 minute guy though. You'd use him as you need him based on matchups. There would be times when you need to play big with Poeltl/Giannis, and there would be times when you go small with Giannis at C or someone else.

When the Raps won the title, they'd play Gasol/Ibaka together, and they'd play them separately depending on matchups and score.

40 mpg? No. But he is currently a 30 mpg starter. That doesn't fit with Giannis. I don't think it's good asset management to reduce Poeltl's role to a bench big.

There will be some games when he needs to play 40 mins, some he'll need to play 18.

I don't think there's pressure to play a 20M player given how large the cap is currently. The cap is projected to be around 155m this coming season, Poeltl's salary is only 12% of the cap, which isn't much more than a MLE player which is going to be around 10% of the cap.

If you can get a talent like Giannis, you worry about how he fits with Poeltl later. If it really doesn't work, you trade Poeltl for a different big.

[YogurtProducer]

Read the thread bucko. Saying Giannis can bring Ingram and bums to the finals means he must be better than Jokic, A dude said Quickley is on the same level as Myles Turner, and Giannis and Ingram is the best team in the east, which mean Ingram must be a top 15 player.

That is a lot of assumptions to make.

Saying Giannis can take our team to the finals =/= Ingram is a top 15 player. That is one hell of a leap with zero logic behind it.

Also, how does Jokic factor into any of this? Since Haliburton and Siakam went to the finals are they better than Jokic?

"I am not saying the Raptors are that good, but I think Giannis can take them to the finals. You thinking that means I am saying they are so good is you making assumptions."

You can think the Raptors are a great team in a VERY WEAK east and not think Ingram is a top 15 player.

Do you think that Haliburton/Nembhard/Nesmith/Siakam/Turner is significantly better (or better at all) than Quickley/Agbaji/Ingram/Giannis/Poeltl? That looks like a matchup that could go eitehr way, and I would say that Raptors team has a higher ceiling overall.

Giannis a legit MVP player man. 30/12/7 on 62.5TS% and a force on defense to. That is legitimately in the conversation for the best player in the league.

He played against Indiana this playoffs and put up 33/15/7 on 61% shooting. Wanna know the top scorers after him? GTJ, Portis, KPJ, and AJ Green. You don't think that series is a different story if his 2-5 guys were Ingram/IQ/Poeltl/Agbaji?

come on man. Stop trolling.

[HangTime]

How about

Giannis, Kuzma, Connaughton
for
RJ, IQ, Ochai, Gradey, Lawson, Castleton and the assortment of picks.

[MiamiSPX]

Read on Twitter

I would do that in a heartbeat.

I think any version of Giannis + Ingram + shooters is going to win you a lot of games.

Same. I didn't even think the Bucks fan's counter was all that bad.

[MoneyBall]

Poeltl isn't a 38-40 minute guy though. You'd use him as you need him based on matchups. There would be times when you need to play big with Poeltl/Giannis, and there would be times when you go small with Giannis at C or someone else.

When the Raps won the title, they'd play Gasol/Ibaka together, and they'd play them separately depending on matchups and score.

40 mpg? No. But he is currently a 30 mpg starter. That doesn't fit with Giannis. I don't think it's good asset management to reduce Poeltl's role to a bench big.

There will be some games when he needs to play 40 mins, some he'll need to play 18.

I don't think there's pressure to play a 20M player given how large the cap is currently. The cap is projected to be around 155m this coming season, Poeltl's salary is only 12% of the cap, which isn't much more than a MLE player which is going to be around 10% of the cap.

If you can get a talent like Giannis, you worry about how he fits with Poeltl later. If it really doesn't work, you trade Poeltl for a different big.

Of course. I'm not arguing we need to trade him before getting Giannis. I'm saying they clearly aren't a good, much less ideal, match together.

It's not that we'd have pressure to have to play him minutes because of his salary, it's that his value would be better served as bait to fetch us a good replacement instead of him playing a reduced role off the bench.

[TravisScott55]

That is a lot of assumptions to make.

Saying Giannis can take our team to the finals =/= Ingram is a top 15 player. That is one hell of a leap with zero logic behind it.

Also, how does Jokic factor into any of this? Since Haliburton and Siakam went to the finals are they better than Jokic?

"I am not saying the Raptors are that good, but I think Giannis can take them to the finals. You thinking that means I am saying they are so good is you making assumptions."

You can think the Raptors are a great team in a VERY WEAK east and not think Ingram is a top 15 player.

Do you think that Haliburton/Nembhard/Nesmith/Siakam/Turner is significantly better (or better at all) than Quickley/Agbaji/Ingram/Giannis/Poeltl? That looks like a matchup that could go eitehr way, and I would say that Raptors team has a higher ceiling overall.

Giannis a legit MVP player man. 30/12/7 on 62.5TS% and a force on defense to. That is legitimately in the conversation for the best player in the league.

He played against Indiana this playoffs and put up 33/15/7 on 61% shooting. Wanna know the top scorers after him? GTJ, Portis, KPJ, and AJ Green. You don't think that series is a different story if his 2-5 guys were Ingram/IQ/Poeltl/Agbaji?

come on man. Stop trolling.

LMAO yes man, stop being a homer.

[ForeverTFC]

Yep.

Ingram and Siakam are the same tier of player. Both are all-star caliber guys who might make an all-nba team if the stars align.
Quick and Turner are both guys who are 4th/5th starters. I like Turner, but he has just as many flaws as IQ does. He is a center who averaged 6.5rpg and is not some elite defender. Blocks shots but isn't a great defender by any means.

You add Giannis to this team and we are easily at Indiana's level.

I wonder if you had this same opinion back when Siakam was a Raptor and BI wasn't. I'm doubtful.

Siakam is a better player than Ingram. He's actually available to play for an entire season and playoffs, and he can actually play defence. And even on the offensive end, he's easier to plug into any system than Ingram (neither one is a first option, so that matters).

It's so funny reading this thread and seeing Raptor fans convince themselves Ingram is a top 15 player now and Quickley is better than Myles Turner and Giannis is better than Jokic.

No one in this thread has said Giannis is better than Jokic, unless I completely missed it.

Siakam is a better player than Ingram, though it's never been a massive gap. Ingram is a better shot creator in the half court while Siakam is a better transition player, off-ball play finisher, and defender. With that said, Ingram is a fine fit with Giannis given the need for a secondary initiator and scorer beside him (see Middelton, Dame trade). Would I rather have Siakam beside him? I think so, but it's not that far off.

IQ vs Turner is almost impossible to compare. They both give you desirable traits in their position while also bringing a few critical shortcomings. Would I rather Turner beside Giannis? Probably. But it won't work against the big Cs and you'd have to figure something out there. IQ wouldn't really have that match up limitation even if Turner is better in the optimal matchup.

I do wonder why you are dodging the original debate though. Haliburton/Siakam/Turner are in the finals. Do you believe Giannis/Ingram/IQ are considerably worse?

[Don_Draper]

sooooo are we gonna get the Greek freak or what. I need to know. tnx.

[Scase]

Read on Twitter

I would do that in a heartbeat.

I think any version of Giannis + Ingram + shooters is going to win you a lot of games.

Making those all unprotected while relying on a duo that is heavily reliant on an unhealthy player staying healthy, and another increasingly injured player no longer being injured, is a horrible trade. Giannis has played 70 + games once in the last 6 years, and we all know BI's struggle with injuries.

The two of them probably barely play 50 games together, and lord only knows how the playoffs would work out.

Those picks absolutely need top 5-10 protections.