Pacers will be the Biggest Underdogs to win the NBA Finals if they win over the Thunder

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

Same were said of the Nuggets and Bucks when they won their first recently. Granted, this year it could be a guaranteed title, but the dynasty talks is way too premature— and frankly, arrogant since even a back to back title is improbable.

Anyway, congrats on winning the title, the Pacers have zero chance of beating the Thunder.


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I don't remember that being said about those teams. I'm sure some said it, whether it be for click bait or serious, but those teams were never as young or as stacked as this Thunders deep from top to bottom.

Perhaps not dynasty, but surely winning back to back or 2 of 3. You are acting like you have a Steph Curry and all those great Warriors teams already.


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My dude, I'm a Pacers fan.

No, he's not a Curry level talent, but he just won MVP, with many years to go in his prime, and he has an amazing team, full of other young talent, to build with. This team is already amazing, and outside of injuries, they aren't going to get worse.

[durden_tyler]

Ouch, that’s sad to hear then. OKC is a great team, just not a dynasty team for me. That’s okay too, in the age of parity, 1 title is enough.

As for the Pacers, smart money says just to bet OKC -2.5 but where is the fun in that? Time to waste money and bet Pacers to win the series and pray hard to the basketball gods!


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[cgf]

Yeah, people under-rate the Pacers like crazy.

No they don't. You can argue this pacer team made the finals without a top 10 player in the league, that's basically unheard of.

…this has the cadence of someone who thinks they made a great point, but feels like a non sequitur. We’ve seen a team win the title without an MVp-caliber guy every 10 years or so…Detroit & San Antonio being the last two…and Haliburton is playing like a top 10 guy right now, even if he started the season slowly due to his injury and needing to mature a little more into the killer he’s become.

And even if you’re adamant that Hali still isn’t a top 10 guy, who cares? That team is playing great ball and has been one of the top 6 teams in the NBa ever since getting healthy & getting their season on track. The defense is very solid and exhausts you with fullcourt pressure for 48 minutes, while the offense might be the best in the NBA…and is similarly exhausting with how hard they push.

Folks got suckered in by their 10-15 start, but when healthy, like they are now, that teams is a problem. There’s a reason I said the Cavs series would be a toss up before it started and Cleveland started to get hurt, and why I said they’d be our toughest test, even after beating Boston.

They have a great coach, a great closer, a lot of very good players, and a style that leverages their strengths extremely well. OKC could well be too much for them…but I also won’t be surprised if they punk the Thunder in 5 or 6.

[cgf]

I don't remember that being said about those teams. I'm sure some said it, whether it be for click bait or serious, but those teams were never as young or as stacked as this Thunders deep from top to bottom.

Perhaps not dynasty, but surely winning back to back or 2 of 3. You are acting like you have a Steph Curry and all those great Warriors teams already.


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My dude, I'm a Pacers fan.

No, he's not a Curry level talent, but he just won MVP, with many years to go in his prime, and he has an amazing team, full of other young talent, to build with. This team is already amazing, and outside of injuries, they aren't going to get worse.

Ego’s, hunger, and the cap will never stop existing. Especially with kids being deified by the whole town because there’s nothing else going on in OKC. I think you’ll beat them, but even if not there’s a lot that could get in their way moving forward even without injuries.

Plus I think Presti may not be aggressive enough to maximize his window. Teams always get burned when they try to act like their window is endless instead of going hard to strike while the iron is hot. And I think presti has been to patient at the start of this window. Like Joe Sakic I think that over abundance of patience will leave titles on the table.

[cgf]

Yeah, people under-rate the Pacers like crazy.

I think because there's a number of factors going into this:
- People don't understand how good their offense is. They were only 9th ranked during the regular season and they struggled to start the year (the time when people are paying the most attention and the Pacers went 10-15 over the first 25). The possibility that this is maybe the best offense in the league is confusing.
- The Pacers were perceived as not having a top 20 player. Haliburton was injured last year, over the summer, and to start the year. He looked bad (again when everyone was paying more attention to the Pacers). Siakam, despite being 2x All-NBA, often gets written off by fans since he's always been more about versatility than raw scoring power.
- Their defense isn't that good. This should be a bigger problem, but the Pacers have simply found ways to compete with the right amount of turnover creation, rim protection, the brilliance of Nembhard, and just being pretty deep with helpful defenders (Siakam, Nesmith, Turner, Walker).

I rooted for the Pacers a fair amount this year, but I didn't have them beating the Cavs. I predicted a perfect playoff bracket in the West, and might have had that in the East if not for these pesky Pacers. I even picked the Knicks in 7 before the series started. I've picked against them in every round after the 1st.

Their defense isn’t even bad. This isn’t a Denver situation where unreal offense is compensating for a poor defense, they’ve genuinely been good defensively since getting their wing defenders back…as well as being unreal offensively.

[cgf]

I think Nesmith might be playing through injury now which is a big factor for the Pacers

On that note, is there any news on Walker?

Not what you meant, but I’m trying to start a rumor that Jarace met with Leon briefly after the series and expressed interest in coming to New York this offseason to fill that 8th man hole we have.

[Capn'O]

I think Nesmith might be playing through injury now which is a big factor for the Pacers

On that note, is there any news on Walker?

Not what you meant, but I’m trying to start a rumor that Jarace met with Leon briefly after the series and expressed interest in coming to New York this offseason to fill that 8th man hole we have.

I feel you. That guy can play.

[cgf]

theres been no parity like this since the 70s

this is why the indy team structure worked this year

I mean sure it worked to get to the finals?? Does it work for actually winning a championship though? Plenty of teams make it to the finals and don't win and then nobody really remembers them. 5,10,15 years later.

several years ago in the teens, BOTH finals teams would need their stars. since then the bucks had giannis+great support, denver had jokic+ great support, and the celts...it's not like lebron hunting for stars @heat and @cavs, or gsw grabbing kd.

this year, indy has none and okc has ONE+ a deep good supporting cast. essentially both team are operating in the same environment. it's been parity gradually creeping up and all the old superstars getting old

GSW was able to walk the west for years with just 1 and briefly 2 stars

[cgf]

On that note, is there any news on Walker?

Not what you meant, but I’m trying to start a rumor that Jarace met with Leon briefly after the series and expressed interest in coming to New York this offseason to fill that 8th man hole we have.

I feel you. That guy can play.

Yeah. I’ve been wanting to snag him & Nembhard from the Pacers all season Kid just has such interesting tools...on both ends...and he doesn't seem like a dummie, so I'd trust him to become a Thibs kinda guy with a little time to settle in.

Hopefully they decide that Obi is just too good a fit for how they play to be sacrificed to the cap gods, and they move McConnell + Walker to make room for turner’s new deal, instead. Something like Dadiet + some of our SRPs would be awesome.

[jkvonny]

Most lopsided odds in NBA Finals history

1. 2001 Lakers vs Sixers: -2000
2. 2018 Warriors vs Cavs: -1075
3. 1996 Bulls vs Sonics: -950
4. 1999 Spurs vs Knicks: -900
5. 2000 Lakers vs Pacers: -800
6. 2002 Lakers vs Nets: -750
7T. 2025 Thunder vs Pacers: -700
7T. 2004 Lakers vs Pistons: -700
7T. 1986 Celtics vs Rockets: -700

Can the Pacers pull off what the '04 Pistons did?

Also surprised the 2000 Lakers were that big of favorites vs Indiana. I know they were coming off a 67 win season, but they were just coming out of a brutal 7 game series vs Portland and were going up against a battle tested 56 win Indiana team.

Same here, surprised. Maybe because of HCA?
I don't know, can't remember.

Pacers and Jazz were favorites (or at least near the very top) to win it all in the 1999 preseason and 2000 preseason . This was right after their nemesis (MJ , Bulls) retired and declined after the 1998 season.
Pacers screwed up in 1999, upset by 8 seed NY Knicks in ECF. But, they broke through in 2000, revenge again Knicks in ECF.
Utah kept getting upset in the 2nd round by young up and coming Portland team in both 1999 and 2000 seasons. Back to back seasons.

Lakers were on the upswing after some down years during the '90s, but still pretty young, the Lakers hadn't won a championship since the Showtime Lakers of the '80s.
Portland was beating them in game 7 on the trade but collapsed in the final minutes.

Lakers were contenders, but I don't remember them being heavy favorites. Maybe also because they hired Phil Jackson after they gave up on Del Harris and former player/coach Kurt Rambis.
Jackson had just finished coaching the decade long dynasty '90s Bulls. Temporarily "retired " but signed with the Lakers a couple of years later.

[GiannisAnte34]

I mean sure it worked to get to the finals?? Does it work for actually winning a championship though? Plenty of teams make it to the finals and don't win and then nobody really remembers them. 5,10,15 years later.

several years ago in the teens, BOTH finals teams would need their stars. since then the bucks had giannis+great support, denver had jokic+ great support, and the celts...it's not like lebron hunting for stars @heat and @cavs, or gsw grabbing kd.

this year, indy has none and okc has ONE+ a deep good supporting cast. essentially both team are operating in the same environment. it's been parity gradually creeping up and all the old superstars getting old

GSW was able to walk the west for years with just 1 and briefly 2 stars

In my view Klay at his peak was a star

They had 3 stars when it was Curry KD and Klay

[Lalouie]

I mean sure it worked to get to the finals?? Does it work for actually winning a championship though? Plenty of teams make it to the finals and don't win and then nobody really remembers them. 5,10,15 years later.

several years ago in the teens, BOTH finals teams would need their stars. since then the bucks had giannis+great support, denver had jokic+ great support, and the celts...it's not like lebron hunting for stars @heat and @cavs, or gsw grabbing kd.

this year, indy has none and okc has ONE+ a deep good supporting cast. essentially both team are operating in the same environment. it's been parity gradually creeping up and all the old superstars getting old

GSW was able to walk the west for years with just 1 and briefly 2 stars

gsw had 3 hofer's, maybe 4 with iggy, maybe, and 5 with kd.....but at least built on three.

but for context, could anyone even name one player on indy before the playoffs and even he is struggling for recognition. how many pacers would even start on most of the ring teams of the millenium. would any pacer start on okc even???

[cgf]

several years ago in the teens, BOTH finals teams would need their stars. since then the bucks had giannis+great support, denver had jokic+ great support, and the celts...it's not like lebron hunting for stars @heat and @cavs, or gsw grabbing kd.

this year, indy has none and okc has ONE+ a deep good supporting cast. essentially both team are operating in the same environment. it's been parity gradually creeping up and all the old superstars getting old

GSW was able to walk the west for years with just 1 and briefly 2 stars

In my view Klay at his peak was a star

They had 3 stars when it was Curry KD and Klay

If Klay counts then Hali & Siakam count, at least to my eye

[cgf]

several years ago in the teens, BOTH finals teams would need their stars. since then the bucks had giannis+great support, denver had jokic+ great support, and the celts...it's not like lebron hunting for stars @heat and @cavs, or gsw grabbing kd.

this year, indy has none and okc has ONE+ a deep good supporting cast. essentially both team are operating in the same environment. it's been parity gradually creeping up and all the old superstars getting old

GSW was able to walk the west for years with just 1 and briefly 2 stars

gsw had 3 hofer's, maybe 4 with iggy, maybe, and 5 with kd.....but at least built on three.

but for context, could anyone even name one player on indy before the playoffs and even he is struggling for recognition. how many pacers would even start on most of the ring teams of the millenium. would any pacer start on okc even???

You shouldn't assume everyone else was as ignorant about the Pacers as you were before the playoffs. Some of us have spent all season saying they were a top 6 team in the league when healthy and used their quality as an argument for how strong the east's top 4 was this season. Predicting them to sweep or gentleman's sweep Giannis before giving the Cavs all they could handle.

...and have spent that entire year wishing they could snag Nembhard & Walker for their own team's rotation. You didn't see this coming, but that's not because this came out of nowhere. If you watched them since the holidays with any regularity, you could've seen it too


2 of GSW's HOFer are only HOFers because of the 3rd one. Stick Klay & Draymond on a team where they are the best players and nobody even thinks to argue they are stars...at least if Haliburton and Siakam aren't considered stars...

[GiannisAnte34]

GSW was able to walk the west for years with just 1 and briefly 2 stars

In my view Klay at his peak was a star

They had 3 stars when it was Curry KD and Klay

If Klay counts then Hali & Siakam count, at least to my eye

Hali probably but Pascal no

Klay is #5 all time made 3s, in his prime he was a 3 level scorer, 50/40/90 shooter, and could lock down your best perimeter player

[cgf]

In my view Klay at his peak was a star

They had 3 stars when it was Curry KD and Klay

If Klay counts then Hali & Siakam count, at least to my eye

Hali probably but Pascal no

Klay is #5 all time made 3s, in his prime he was a 3 level scorer, 50/40/90 shooter, and could lock down your best perimeter player

Klay has a great resume in our timeline. But does Klay have a HOF resume if he doesn't spend his career with an all-time great giving defenses panic attacks? If you put Klay through Allen Houston's career, where he has to be the best scorer on his team, does he still have a HOF career?

Conversely if Siakam gets to spend his career playing next to Steph, isn't he a HOFer?

[GiannisAnte34]

If Klay counts then Hali & Siakam count, at least to my eye

Hali probably but Pascal no

Klay is #5 all time made 3s, in his prime he was a 3 level scorer, 50/40/90 shooter, and could lock down your best perimeter player

Klay has a great resume in our timeline. But does Klay have a HOF resume if he doesn't spend his career with an all-time great giving defenses panic attacks? If you put Klay through Allen Houston's career, where he has to be the best scorer on his team, does he still have a HOF career?

Conversely if Siakam gets to spend his career playing next to Steph, isn't he a HOFer?

Siakam did play on a loaded Raptors team and now a super deep Indy team. He has had way better teams than most players dream of

[durden_tyler]

^ Here’s hoping SGA don’t get as many questionable calls as in previous rounds/regular season.

Hoping the NBA hires the FIBA refs that called the France-Canada quarterfinals in the last Olympics when those refs did not fall for SGA’s antics.

So yeah, about 10% chance i win this bet, but i really believe then Pacers’ miracle postseason run will continue!


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[cgf]

Hali probably but Pascal no

Klay is #5 all time made 3s, in his prime he was a 3 level scorer, 50/40/90 shooter, and could lock down your best perimeter player

Klay has a great resume in our timeline. But does Klay have a HOF resume if he doesn't spend his career with an all-time great giving defenses panic attacks? If you put Klay through Allen Houston's career, where he has to be the best scorer on his team, does he still have a HOF career?

Conversely if Siakam gets to spend his career playing next to Steph, isn't he a HOFer?

Siakam did play on a loaded Raptors team and now a super deep Indy team. He has had way better teams than most players dream of

Toronto was loaded for a year. Klay spent his whole career next to Steph.

[durden_tyler]

For anyone betting the Pacers to win the series, go series score than just straight up win since that’s going to happen in 6 or 7


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