Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest"/KD too

[PushDaRock]

holy crap, he's even wearing Raptors gear in the off season. I don't want to get my hopes but I think it's happening!!!

[WuTang_CMB]

If the Raps go into the season with Giannis/Ingram/IQ/Poeltl, they might be the betting favorites in the east.

that team is finals bound if Ingram stays healthy and plays up to par

[Clutch0z24]

I know exactly how good he is. But I also know the Magic aren't trading Wagner + 4-5 unprotected picks for him. And HOU isn't trading Sengun + 4-5 unprotected picks for him. Teams aren't going to gut both their present and future for anyone.

Both the Spurs + The Rockets ....Even if they give up Sengun/Reed Shepp + Picks or Spurs give up #2/#14 future picks + Players both teams still have enough to compete after...Same with OKC if they decide to get involved....

If Giannis was on his walk year you would have a point...But Bucks can sit on Giannis if they don't like the offers and everyone is lowballing them....Like i said no player of Giannis level ever been traded in the recent NBA....Teams know if you get Giannis in the door you are one step closer to a title ....There will be steep offers made...

If these deals were actually on the table, Giannis would already be traded.

Giannis never officially requested a trade yet....The Bucks do not want to trade him... ...Only way they trade him is if he demands the trade...All of this is speculation right now....When he officially makes a trade request thats when teams are going to start giving their offers...Theres a reason Rockets/Spurs have been favs outside of Bucks to land him....

[bballsparkin]

Not many players on the level of Giannis have been traded before....LeBron always walked in Free agency and was never traded....Kobe was never traded, MJ was never traded.....I don't remember a time a top 3 player was ever traded....So this is not a player you can look at the history because it does not exist....

A 35 year old KD costed the Suns Mikal Bridges/Cam Johnson(Their best young players) + 4 First rounders...And thats a old KD...

Giannis value will in fact be a few of your best young players + Draft picks + A lotto pick in this upcoming draft....Like i said Giannis is also not on his walk year so this is not a Siakam/OG situation either...

What if he doesn't extend? What if the team has injuries and he bolts after two seasons? The Suns made the KD trade before the big CBA changes IIRC. Plus they are arrogant because they are a free agent market. Which unfortunately Toronto is not.

[OakleyDokely]

Both the Spurs + The Rockets ....Even if they give up Sengun/Reed Shepp + Picks or Spurs give up #2/#14 future picks + Players both teams still have enough to compete after...Same with OKC if they decide to get involved....

If Giannis was on his walk year you would have a point...But Bucks can sit on Giannis if they don't like the offers and everyone is lowballing them....Like i said no player of Giannis level ever been traded in the recent NBA....Teams know if you get Giannis in the door you are one step closer to a title ....There will be steep offers made...

If these deals were actually on the table, Giannis would already be traded.

Giannis never officially requested a trade yet....The Bucks do not want to trade him... ...Only way they trade him is if he demands the trade...All of this is speculation right now....When he officially makes a trade request thats when teams are going to start giving their offers...Theres a reason Rockets/Spurs have been favs outside of Bucks to land him....

He doesn't need to request a trade for the Bucks to trade him.

If you what you're saying is correct and teams are willing to offer their best young player, top 10 picks in this draft along with multiple unprotected future picks, they'd trade him regardless given their situation.

[Clutch0z24]

If these deals were actually on the table, Giannis would already be traded.

Giannis never officially requested a trade yet....The Bucks do not want to trade him... ...Only way they trade him is if he demands the trade...All of this is speculation right now....When he officially makes a trade request thats when teams are going to start giving their offers...Theres a reason Rockets/Spurs have been favs outside of Bucks to land him....

He doesn't need to request a trade for the Bucks to trade him.

If you what you're saying is correct and teams are willing to offer their best young player, top 10 picks in this draft along with multiple unprotested future picks, they'd trade him regardless given their situation.

But you are assuming they WANT to trade him....Like i said this is a top 3 MVP beloved franchise player the Bucks ever had...Giannis makes them so much money as a franchise....If Giannis says "I want to stay here forget trading me"....He will be on the Bucks next year...They are not just going to randomly trade him ....This will be a bidding war if he does request the trade....Why would Bucks just accept any offer thrown at them...If he does request a trade the bidding war begins and Bucks will wait to extract the best offer they can...

Which ill bet teams will come correct especially for a player on the level of Giannis...

[causal_fan]

If the Bucks move Giannis it needs to be a trade whereby the Bucks get back their future picks so that they can tank like Brooklyn

[Clutch0z24]

Not many players on the level of Giannis have been traded before....LeBron always walked in Free agency and was never traded....Kobe was never traded, MJ was never traded.....I don't remember a time a top 3 player was ever traded....So this is not a player you can look at the history because it does not exist....

A 35 year old KD costed the Suns Mikal Bridges/Cam Johnson(Their best young players) + 4 First rounders...And thats a old KD...

Giannis value will in fact be a few of your best young players + Draft picks + A lotto pick in this upcoming draft....Like i said Giannis is also not on his walk year so this is not a Siakam/OG situation either...

What if he doesn't extend? What if the team has injuries and he bolts after two seasons? The Suns made the KD trade before the big CBA changes IIRC. Plus they are arrogant because they are a free agent market. Which unfortunately Toronto is not.

Well thats the risk you take for one of the best players in the NBA...If you don't want to take the risk you just don't end up with Giannis and continue on the path your on....

[YogurtProducer]

If the Raps go into the season with Giannis/Ingram/IQ/Poeltl, they might be the betting favorites in the east.

TravisScott55 tells me they aren't better than Indiana even.

[bballsparkin]

Well thats the risk you take for one of the best players in the NBA...If you don't want to take the risk you just don't end up with Giannis and continue on the path your on....

Fine with me. I'm jaded and don't want to take that risk. Keep building and consolidate later. Sure the East is wide open. But the West is still the West.

[OakleyDokely]

Giannis never officially requested a trade yet....The Bucks do not want to trade him... ...Only way they trade him is if he demands the trade...All of this is speculation right now....When he officially makes a trade request thats when teams are going to start giving their offers...Theres a reason Rockets/Spurs have been favs outside of Bucks to land him....

He doesn't need to request a trade for the Bucks to trade him.

If you what you're saying is correct and teams are willing to offer their best young player, top 10 picks in this draft along with multiple unprotested future picks, they'd trade him regardless given their situation.

But you are assuming they WANT to trade him....Like i said this is a top 3 MVP beloved franchise player the Bucks ever had...Giannis makes them so much money as a franchise....If Giannis says "I want to stay here forget trading me"....He will be on the Bucks next year...They are not just going to randomly trade him ....This will be a bidding war if he does request the trade....Why would Bucks just accept any offer thrown at them...If he does request a trade the bidding war begins and Bucks will wait to extract the best offer they can...

Which ill bet teams will come correct especially for a player on the level of Giannis...

I'd bet there have already been discussions through back channels between Giannis and his agent and the team. And I'm sure MIL already has an idea on what teams are willing to offer.

If they actually get offered what you're suggesting, I'd pretty sure they'd go to Giannis and discuss a potential deal with him.

[Morris_Shatford]

Fair to say the starting point in any discussions on Giannis is likely around the value the Suns gave up to get Kevin Durant?

[WuTang_CMB]

Giannis never officially requested a trade yet....The Bucks do not want to trade him... ...Only way they trade him is if he demands the trade...All of this is speculation right now....When he officially makes a trade request thats when teams are going to start giving their offers...Theres a reason Rockets/Spurs have been favs outside of Bucks to land him....

He doesn't need to request a trade for the Bucks to trade him.

If you what you're saying is correct and teams are willing to offer their best young player, top 10 picks in this draft along with multiple unprotested future picks, they'd trade him regardless given their situation.

But you are assuming they WANT to trade him....Like i said this is a top 3 MVP beloved franchise player the Bucks ever had...Giannis makes them so much money as a franchise....If Giannis says "I want to stay here forget trading me"....He will be on the Bucks next year...They are not just going to randomly trade him ....This will be a bidding war if he does request the trade....Why would Bucks just accept any offer thrown at them...If he does request a trade the bidding war begins and Bucks will wait to extract the best offer they can...

Which ill bet teams will come correct especially for a player on the level of Giannis...

Bucks absolutely do not want to trade Giannis. They are only trading him if he asks out. This is a hall of fame, franchise icon that they will gladly keep until he retires...

[OakleyDokely]

If the Raps go into the season with Giannis/Ingram/IQ/Poeltl, they might be the betting favorites in the east.

TravisScott55 tells me they aren't better than Indiana even.

They might start behind NYK+IND initially but I think they'd pass them. Giannis gives them the best player in the east by a pretty sizeable margin.

[Scase]

If the Bucks want 3-4-5 picks out into the future without any protections than Barnes isn't going to be included.

Teams don't give up a top, established young player and multiple unprotected 1sts for anyone.

Even the Clippers only did it for PG because it would land them Kawhi as well.

Exactly, you don't bend over backwards and give up every asset you have for a single player, Giannis is great, but he aint prime MJ.

What I really struggle with is how we can put together enough salary in a "give up all the picks and swaps" trade that keeps Scottie out of the deal and on the roster. You want to keep IQ and Ingram. I'm not opposed to sending out Poeltl but we need a C coming back somehow. Let's assume it's Barrett + Poeltl + picks and swaps. The next logical move is Scottie for salaries and draft asset to be able to round out the roster, no?

If we can somehow get Giannis w/o including Scottie, I still think Scottie needs to be traded. Where can we get a package that makes sense? Maybe the Nets? What about Cavs for Garland? They get their big wing and we can then flip IQ somewhere. Would the Pistons be open to putting Cade and Scottie back together? How about the Sixers for the 3rd pick and salaries? Do the Mavs have enough to make us an offer?

The problem I run into, is that what we can send out that doesn't entirely gut the team, the Bucks likely dont take. Say RJ + salary and all those picks, them running Dame and RJ would be the laughing stock of the league for guard rotation defence, and since they don't have their own picks it makes no sense. You could always package RJ/IQ, but I think the Bucks would need to offload Dame somewhere which wont be easy, and then we lose our PG.

That said, moving Scottie afterwards would make sense and allow us to get a PG/Centre, I still think that no matter what, we don't have the assets to make this trade and still field a team that would really make any noise. Playoffs are a certainty, and I would say even 2nd round is almost certain, but while we've got him on contract, I can't see how it would result in anything substantial, all while blowing basically everything we have.

Just seems super short-sighted.

I would do that in a heartbeat.

I think any version of Giannis + Ingram + shooters is going to win you a lot of games.

Making those all unprotected while relying on a duo that is heavily reliant on an unhealthy player staying healthy, and another increasingly injured player no longer being injured, is a horrible trade. Giannis has played 70 + games once in the last 6 years, and we all know BI's struggle with injuries.

The two of them probably barely play 50 games together, and lord only knows how the playoffs would work out.

Those picks absolutely need top 5-10 protections.

Only two of the picks in that proposal are unprotected. We retain 2026, 2028, 2030 FRP. We're already building with Ingram. You either give him an MVP ceiling calibre player or an all-star calibre player to work with.

Yeah but in the event things go tits up, you don't want your picks every 2 years. Not only does it limit you if you have bad seasons, but you can't trade anything and locks you into attempting to compete no matter the roster. This is like a 10x riskier version of the Kawhi trade, cept without the potential return. Just seems like not a great idea, definitely makes sense for MLSE and ticket sales etc though.

[Asif16]

Would ya'll do RJ + Ochai for Jamal Murray?

[Clutch0z24]

He doesn't need to request a trade for the Bucks to trade him.

If you what you're saying is correct and teams are willing to offer their best young player, top 10 picks in this draft along with multiple unprotested future picks, they'd trade him regardless given their situation.

But you are assuming they WANT to trade him....Like i said this is a top 3 MVP beloved franchise player the Bucks ever had...Giannis makes them so much money as a franchise....If Giannis says "I want to stay here forget trading me"....He will be on the Bucks next year...They are not just going to randomly trade him ....This will be a bidding war if he does request the trade....Why would Bucks just accept any offer thrown at them...If he does request a trade the bidding war begins and Bucks will wait to extract the best offer they can...

Which ill bet teams will come correct especially for a player on the level of Giannis...

I'd bet there have already been discussions through back channels between Giannis and his agent and the team. And I'm sure MIL already has an idea on what teams are willing to offer.

If they actually get offered what you're suggesting, I'd pretty sure they'd go to Giannis and discuss a potential deal with him.

Its just funny to me that because we got away with that absurd Kawhi deal which came with many circumstances that are unrealistic to other deals this fan base thinks we can fleece every trade or get every player on the cheap

A 35 year old KD got Bridges/Cam 4 FRP....

Giannis not on his walk year and Bucks do not need to rush a trade....There will be a bidding war where they will get the best offers they can...They are not obligated to help the Raptors out by accepting Barnes, #9, Dick and no picks....They don't have future picks so you are basically telling them....Take these young players your team was a lottery team with for our best player....If the player package is what they are after they would try and get a player back they can try and compete with instead...

What Bucks want is a pick heavy package (Since they do not have future picks) As well as players they can try and win games with since they do not control their own picks to tank....

I will bet one of the Rockets/Spurs/Okc if a bidding war happens offer up ^ that because them 3 teams would still have talent after the trade to be a title contender for some years....And if Bucks don't like the offers they do not have to trade Giannis because hes not on his walk year...

[ciueli]

I don't think we should give up a lot in a Giannis trade, as I've said before, he's just going to end up in LA in 2027 as a free agent to play with Luka. No one is saying it right now, but it's obvious to me because it always happens, LeBron to LA, AD to LA, Luka to LA, next up is Giannis when they have max cap space to throw at him, he won't be a top 3 player then but he should still be a top 10 player and that will be enough with Luka still in his 20s and probably a top 3 player.

If we have to go after a "big fish" it should be one of the cheap ones. Sabonis makes sense because the Kings are a poorly run franchise, that's what we should be doing, taking advantage of the poorly run franchises in trades, they are clearly going the asset collection route after moving Fox. Could probably get Sabonis for as little as Jak + RJ + 9, Sabonis is a much better fit here than Jak, last three seasons he's even shooting the 3 well in limited attempts, he plays more minutes and more games per seasons than Jak does, also isn't as much of a liability at the FT line at the end of games.

[OakleyDokely]

But you are assuming they WANT to trade him....Like i said this is a top 3 MVP beloved franchise player the Bucks ever had...Giannis makes them so much money as a franchise....If Giannis says "I want to stay here forget trading me"....He will be on the Bucks next year...They are not just going to randomly trade him ....This will be a bidding war if he does request the trade....Why would Bucks just accept any offer thrown at them...If he does request a trade the bidding war begins and Bucks will wait to extract the best offer they can...

Which ill bet teams will come correct especially for a player on the level of Giannis...

I'd bet there have already been discussions through back channels between Giannis and his agent and the team. And I'm sure MIL already has an idea on what teams are willing to offer.

If they actually get offered what you're suggesting, I'd pretty sure they'd go to Giannis and discuss a potential deal with him.

Its just funny to me that because we got away with that absurd Kawhi deal which came with many circumstances that are unrealistic to other deals this fan base thinks we can fleece every trade or get every player on the cheap

A 35 year old KD got Bridges/Cam 4 FRP....

Giannis not on his walk year and Bucks do not need to rush a trade....There will be a bidding war where they will get the best offers they can...They are not obligated to help the Raptors out by accepting Barnes, #9, Dick and no picks....They don't have future picks so you are basically telling them....Take these young players your team was a lottery team with for our best player....If the player package is what they are after they would try and get a player back they can try and compete with instead...

What Bucks want is a pick heavy package (Since they do not have future picks) As well as players they can try and win games with since they do not control their own picks to tank....

I will bet one of the Rockets/Spurs/Okc if a bidding war happens offer up ^ that because them 3 teams would still have talent after the trade to be a title contender for some years....And if Bucks don't like the offers they do not have to trade Giannis because hes not on his walk year...

Who said anything about fleecing?

You're suggesting that a team will trade their best (or one of their best) young guys + a top 10 pick in this draft + 4-5 unprotected 1sts for Giannis and I disagree with that.

If that's the asking price, he won't be traded.

[MiamiSPX]

Would ya'll do RJ + Ochai for Jamal Murray?

Do you mean after hypothetically landing Giannis? Probably not. If ew miraculously land Giannis, we will need guys that outproduce their contract. Murray is not that.