2025 Draft Thread - Part 2

[WizarDynasty]

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I must say, this guy certainly seems to meet our draft criteria of positional length and multi-tool passer/ball-handler skillset.

Everything skill wise seems under developed if your considering him a wing.

The ball-handling appears raw... to me he looks like a 2 dribble-max guy which can still make him useful. The jumper needs alot of work. If he starts hitting 3s at 35% clip, then you can see him in a role a switchable defender.

Problem is he's less than 200 lbs with the skill of a C. The length is great and probably his saving grace but I don't see a ton of offensive upside in a guy labeled as a wing when the skills don't measure up.

Skill wise he reminds me alof of Jan Vesely when he came out. Vesely's skill seemed to regress once he got to DC (for probably a number of reasons including Vesely himself), but both are the long, athletic energy guy with good feel types who lack polished skill to standout at any one thing.

The biggest advantage for Noa is that he knows how to use his frame and handle contact which is pretty unique for his age. His body control and ability to contort is also special for his size. Not sure how this translates tho against bigger and quicker competition.

One thing I find very encouraging is his FTA rate. Dude averages 8.4 FTA's per 36 minutes on only 10.5 FGA's. I'm not sure I've ever seen a FTA Rate of .800. Also, the 2.1 steals per 36 is very nice for a big man. Numbers like that suggest he plays with a Chet Holmgren type of physicality that belies his slight stature.

On the skills front, he is a 73% FT shooter at age 18 so I think his 3-ball will come around. I don't know if he'll ever be a driver of an offense like Giannis, but I think he can easily develop the skillset to play power forward in a complementary role.

Vesely had horrible hands. Small and couldnt palm the ball from memory. Was soft defensively and poor half court offensive IQ. Does Essengue have these same traits?
Essengue reminds me alot of young Giannis before he was drafted.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

The other guy that people are just missing is Danny Wolf. Are people watching the same tape I am? KAT, Dirk, Divac, Jokic... not sure who else can create such a variety of shots and looks for teammates from the perimeter at his size (7'0 250lbs). There are some really good 10+ minute videos that are more in depth, but this just encapsulates what I see:
https://youtube.com/shorts/X_9VFWSsLV0?si=yM4NO_EXyiaNkUQT

https://youtube.com/shorts/Aj-a1qnm4tA?si=k0vo2myjkwAoDpO5

He's like some KAT/Turkey Glue/Olynyk hybrid and just turned 21 a few weeks ago. Sign me up

I'm really hoping we land Wolf at #18, particularly if we draft a non-center at #6. A good coach will find a way to utilize his unique skillset and high energy. And I think he will hold up defensively because he has good feet. He won't be a big time rim protector or anything, but he'll be in the right spot in position to cut off driving lanes, and he'll have the strength and base to contend with the behemoths that Sarr can't match up with.

Fleming in a trade down and Wolf would be a nice draft day pairing.

[80sballboy]

When I was a kid, I rooted Baltimore >> DC

O's, Colts, Bullets.

Jim, those were my teams as well.

My father was a Redskins fan. I liked the Colts. Bert Jones and Lydell Mitchell were great.

I was a Skins fan from Bowie, but liked those Colts' teams of Jones, Ehrman, Lydell, Joe Washington, Roger Carr, etc. Moved to B'more about 30 years ago and became a Ravens fan. Hated Snyder so I was done with the Skinsmanders. If Baltimore had a basketball team, I might have changed my allegiance but not going anywhere with Zards.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Still my guy (*):

His shooting form is very impressive for a big. Very good rotation and backspin on the release. And I was encouraged by his footwork demonstrated in those videos. I was worried that he was nothing more than a roll man on offense, but it really looks like he is capable of much more than what he showed at Duke. Then factor his age and lack of experience, and he has so much improvement ahead of him.

I'm very comfortable with Maluach at #6, and I'm starting to actually be a little excited. I wonder if he might be a better pick than Tre Johnson even if Johnson slides.

For a lot of these guys, there's a clear issue as has been said, and the most ardent boosters generally aren't addressing them:

Tre: Inside issues, lack of defense/effort on that end.
My guy Fears: Man was that 3 ugly, he's still pretty small, for a guy the scouts think can be a great playmaker, he sure didn't produce a lot of assists.
My guy Maluach: He wasn't played a lot, the projection is based on building him up from a real raw materials kind of prospect and we've seen countless guys like that, just not capable. Trump being president/South Sudan issue. Not quite as athletic as most of us had hoped based on the rumors.
Queen: Defense is ugly as hell, athleticism is even worse, tons of signs that he's motivated on offense and a slacker and largely incapable when not slacking on D.
Kon: He's a floor guy, highly unlikely he's ever anything more than a finishing touch to a starting lineup lacking a 3 point/shooter option, but having multiple studs otherwise.

On top of all that is the tried and true: We're talking ourselves into guys after getting our hearts broken.

I wish I knew if they were in a similar place to you, and just figuring out who to take in terms of upside, or if they are really really focused on trying to make a move up happen.

I don't know. I would think they'd want one of the French dudes, Maluach, Fears or Tre, that makes the most sense, but it's a difficult spot, and every single one of the options has a falling off the bridge monty python style issue.

Fleming and Sorber give me no worries at either end.

Cameron Murray-Broyles certainly provides rugged interior defense.

In round two, Broome is a no-brainer. Kam Jones on offense will initially be as good as Tre ones. Ryan Kalkbrenner is a no-brainer upgrade defensively.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

His shooting form is very impressive for a big. Very good rotation and backspin on the release. And I was encouraged by his footwork demonstrated in those videos. I was worried that he was nothing more than a roll man on offense, but it really looks like he is capable of much more than what he showed at Duke. Then factor his age and lack of experience, and he has so much improvement ahead of him.

I'm very comfortable with Maluach at #6, and I'm starting to actually be a little excited. I wonder if he might be a better pick than Tre Johnson even if Johnson slides.

For a lot of these guys, there's a clear issue as has been said, and the most ardent boosters generally aren't addressing them:

Tre: Inside issues, lack of defense/effort on that end.

People are missing it on Tre. Yes, he needs to improve at finishing inside and having a plan, but his on ball defense isnt bad.
I love the kid. Guy is pure Ball and works his ass off. Supposedly some of his teammates at Texas didnt take the game as seriously and Tre started tuning them out. Very Jimmy Butler-esque, and Im good with that. Get on board or get out of the way mentality.

Go watch him in FIBA and you can see how effortlessly he plays within the team and being much more of a playmaker. Sounds like his teammates at Texas couldnt prove to him that they were capable and he started chucking.
He is somewhere between Rip Hamilton and Devon Booker, and that is well worth it at 6

Cameron Thomas killed it at LSU as a freshman. I remember most people on this board didn't like his size. I liked his production.

I haven't bothered to look closely at Jones' numbers because I've compared his freshman year to Cam Thomas's. Tre Jones will be a bucket. But is he the best pick?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

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I must say, this guy certainly seems to meet our draft criteria of positional length and multi-tool passer/ball-handler skillset.

Everything skill wise seems under developed if your considering him a wing.

The ball-handling appears raw... to me he looks like a 2 dribble-max guy which can still make him useful. The jumper needs alot of work. If he starts hitting 3s at 35% clip, then you can see him in a role a switchable defender.

Problem is he's less than 200 lbs with the skill of a C. The length is great and probably his saving grace but I don't see a ton of offensive upside in a guy labeled as a wing when the skills don't measure up.

[Size=150]Skill wise he reminds me alof of Jan Vesely when he came out. [Size]Vesely's skill seemed to regress once he got to DC (for probably a number of reasons including Vesely himself), but both are the long, athletic energy guy with good feel types who lack polished skill to standout at any one thing.

The biggest advantage for Noa is that he knows how to use his frame and handle contact which is pretty unique for his age. His body control and ability to contort is also special for his size. Not sure how this translates tho against bigger and quicker competition.

Deal breaker.

[Dat2U]

Everything skill wise seems under developed if your considering him a wing.

The ball-handling appears raw... to me he looks like a 2 dribble-max guy which can still make him useful. The jumper needs alot of work. If he starts hitting 3s at 35% clip, then you can see him in a role a switchable defender.

Problem is he's less than 200 lbs with the skill of a C. The length is great and probably his saving grace but I don't see a ton of offensive upside in a guy labeled as a wing when the skills don't measure up.

Skill wise he reminds me alof of Jan Vesely when he came out. Vesely's skill seemed to regress once he got to DC (for probably a number of reasons including Vesely himself), but both are the long, athletic energy guy with good feel types who lack polished skill to standout at any one thing.

The biggest advantage for Noa is that he knows how to use his frame and handle contact which is pretty unique for his age. His body control and ability to contort is also special for his size. Not sure how this translates tho against bigger and quicker competition.

One thing I find very encouraging is his FTA rate. Dude averages 8.4 FTA's per 36 minutes on only 10.5 FGA's. I'm not sure I've ever seen a FTA Rate of .800. Also, the 2.1 steals per 36 is very nice for a big man. Numbers like that suggest he plays with a Chet Holmgren type of physicality that belies his slight stature.

On the skills front, he is a 73% FT shooter at age 18 so I think his 3-ball will come around. I don't know if he'll ever be a driver of an offense like Giannis, but I think he can easily develop the skillset to play power forward in a complementary role.

Vesely had horrible hands. Small and couldnt palm the ball from memory. Was soft defensively and poor half court offensive IQ. Does Essengue have these same traits?
Essengue reminds me alot of young Giannis before he was drafted.

Yes, Noa's hands appear to be questionable. Has trouble catching some passes cleanly. Maybe not quite Vesely level though.

And for ANYONE making the Giannis to Noa comparison, I urge you to go back and watch Giannis' pre NBA footage. Giannis was putting the ball on the deck and slashing relentlessly. That's what separates stars from role players.... your handle. Giannis legitimately had guard handle at 6-9 when coming out. Noa can barely take more than 2 dribbles and doesnt look real comfortable doing so. There is no comparison b/w the two.

That's what makes Derik Queen interesting. If he can tighten his handle, combined with his footwork & feel, you got a guy who can potentially be an 'engine' offensively. That's why I like Danny Wolf at 6-11, he doea things other 6-11 guys would never try.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

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I must say, this guy certainly seems to meet our draft criteria of positional length and multi-tool passer/ball-handler skillset.

Everything skill wise seems under developed if your considering him a wing.

The ball-handling appears raw... to me he looks like a 2 dribble-max guy which can still make him useful. The jumper needs alot of work. If he starts hitting 3s at 35% clip, then you can see him in a role a switchable defender.

Problem is he's less than 200 lbs with the skill of a C. The length is great and probably his saving grace but I don't see a ton of offensive upside in a guy labeled as a wing when the skills don't measure up.

Skill wise he reminds me alof of Jan Vesely when he came out. Vesely's skill seemed to regress once he got to DC (for probably a number of reasons including Vesely himself), but both are the long, athletic energy guy with good feel types who lack polished skill to standout at any one thing.

The biggest advantage for Noa is that he knows how to use his frame and handle contact which is pretty unique for his age. His body control and ability to contort is also special for his size. Not sure how this translates tho against bigger and quicker competition.

One thing I find very encouraging is his FTA rate. Dude averages 8.4 FTA's per 36 minutes on only 10.5 FGA's. I'm not sure I've ever seen a FTA Rate of .800. Also, the 2.1 steals per 36 is very nice for a big man. Numbers like that suggest he plays with a Chet Holmgren type of physicality that belies his slight stature.

On the skills front, he is a 73% FT shooter at age 18 so I think his 3-ball will come around. I don't know if he'll ever be a driver of an offense like Giannis, but I think he can easily develop the skillset to play power forward in a complementary role.

Oh, heck yes.

[nate33]

Everything skill wise seems under developed if your considering him a wing.

The ball-handling appears raw... to me he looks like a 2 dribble-max guy which can still make him useful. The jumper needs alot of work. If he starts hitting 3s at 35% clip, then you can see him in a role a switchable defender.

Problem is he's less than 200 lbs with the skill of a C. The length is great and probably his saving grace but I don't see a ton of offensive upside in a guy labeled as a wing when the skills don't measure up.

[Size=150]Skill wise he reminds me alof of Jan Vesely when he came out. [Size]Vesely's skill seemed to regress once he got to DC (for probably a number of reasons including Vesely himself), but both are the long, athletic energy guy with good feel types who lack polished skill to standout at any one thing.

The biggest advantage for Noa is that he knows how to use his frame and handle contact which is pretty unique for his age. His body control and ability to contort is also special for his size. Not sure how this translates tho against bigger and quicker competition.

Deal breaker.

I think Dat2U is being hyperbolic here.

Vesely at age 21:
44% FT
0.6 A/TO ratio
.560 TS%
13.5 points per 36

Essengue at age 18:
73% FT
1.1 A/TO ratio
.646 TS%
18.8 points per 36

There is no comparison

[AFM]

OK--question for the board: out of anyone in our projected range, who is your absolute DO NOT DRAFT?

[nate33]

OK--question for the board: out of anyone in our projected range, who is your absolute DO NOT DRAFT?

Queen.



Though I am serious.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

OK--question for the board: out of anyone in our projected range, who is your absolute DO NOT DRAFT?

Queen.



Though I am serious.

Agree about Queen. I’d add Tre Johnson. And I’m a Texas ex who grew up a few miles from UMD and loves the Terps.

[NatP4]

Maluach, Queen, and Newell

[9 and 20]

What are the chances Ace falls to 6? I could see it. Philly drafts Tre Johnson - more ready to contribute now and still has star potential. Charlotte drafts Edgecomb. Utah could draft Ace. They might also do something like draft Maluach and trade Walker Kessler.

What would we trade to move up one spot with Utah?

[9 and 20]

Everything skill wise seems under developed if your considering him a wing.

The ball-handling appears raw... to me he looks like a 2 dribble-max guy which can still make him useful. The jumper needs alot of work. If he starts hitting 3s at 35% clip, then you can see him in a role a switchable defender.

Problem is he's less than 200 lbs with the skill of a C. The length is great and probably his saving grace but I don't see a ton of offensive upside in a guy labeled as a wing when the skills don't measure up.

[Size=150]Skill wise he reminds me alof of Jan Vesely when he came out. [Size]Vesely's skill seemed to regress once he got to DC (for probably a number of reasons including Vesely himself), but both are the long, athletic energy guy with good feel types who lack polished skill to standout at any one thing.

The biggest advantage for Noa is that he knows how to use his frame and handle contact which is pretty unique for his age. His body control and ability to contort is also special for his size. Not sure how this translates tho against bigger and quicker competition.

Deal breaker.

I think Dat2U is being hyperbolic here.

Vesely at age 21:
44% FT
0.6 A/TO ratio
.560 TS%
13.5 points per 36

Essengue at age 18:
73% FT
1.1 A/TO ratio
.646 TS%
18.8 points per 36

There is no comparison

Essengue's tankathon profile is a bunch of green circles. Since I'm no draft expert, that's about the best I have to go on. His stats also hold up well when tankathon compares him to other top forwards in the draft.

https://www.tankathon.com/players/noa-essengue

He kind of fails the eye test for me but he is super young so maybe he develops more of a handle as he gets older.

[nate33]

Maluach, Queen, and Newell

Maluach? Really?

I can certainly understand thinking he isn't good enough to draft at #6, but I think he's a pretty sure bet to be useful starter in this league - at least as good as a guy like Poeltl or Clingan, with a good chance of being quite a bit better. I think that rock solid floor makes it hard to label him a "do not draft". He has very low bust potential.

[closg00]

Today’s workouts.
https://www.nba.com/wizards/news/prospect-profiles-wizards-bring-in-six-players-for-pre-draft-workouts-on-june-3

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[TGW]

Nate is right. Also, forgot that Vesely was 21 at the time he was drafted...he should have been solidly in the DO NOT DRAFT category considering how raw his game was.

[NatP4]

Maluach, Queen, and Newell

Maluach? Really?

I can certainly understand thinking he isn't good enough to draft at #6, but I think he's a pretty sure bet to be useful starter in this league - at least as good as a guy like Poeltl or Clingan, with a good chance of being quite a bit better. I think that rock solid floor makes it hard to label him a "do not draft". He has very low bust potential.

He's nowhere near the level of prospect that Clingan was. Clingan was an elite rim protector/all around defender, high level passer and screener, elite finisher(21 points per36). His feel for the game was elite.

Outside of being tall, I don't actually know what Maluach brings? He's one of the least impactful top prospects I have watched. Benefitted significantly from playing next to a couple of top 10 picks/on the best team in the country. His numbers are inflated from games against Army, Incarnate Word, a 15 win Notre Dame team, 17 win Georgia Tech team, and a 7 win Miami team. Poor hands, poor feel on both ends. Think he's more Bismack Biyombo than a Deandre Ayton type.

[NatP4]

-Keep in mind the Tankathon profile for Essengue only includes 18 games played. It's a much larger sample size, has actually played 53 games in the German league and put up fairly consistent numbers over the full season.

53 games per 36: 16.9 points 7.6 rebounds 1.8 assists 1.5 steals 0.9 blocks 1.7 turnovers on 51/26/72 shooting -62.3% TS