Post Mortem 2024-25

[Netaman]

Nets fan here checking in on Jerome (which jbk wisely noted a month ago on nets forum) - if they were to offer him something close to multi-year NTMLE (similar to okoro deal) it seems like Cleveland would probably not match that?

Nets are probably going to be active in the guard market from the draft through the end of the summer with a lot of draft picks and cap space as the primary resources to deploy, i doubt Jerome will be their plan A but if it's July 5th, he's hanging out on the RFA market after all their other moves and their MLE is available, I could see him possibly fitting into their picture. Especially if they've used a high draft pick on an on ball guard and are looking for a vet willing to compete for a starting job but come off bench if necessary. He sort of reminds me of their Tyler Johnson RFA pursuit from way back when.

[JujitsuFlip]

Nets fan here checking in on Jerome (which jbk wisely noted a month ago on nets forum) - if they were to offer him something close to multi-year NTMLE (similar to okoro deal) it seems like Cleveland would probably not match that?

Nets are probably going to be active in the guard market from the draft through the end of the summer with a lot of draft picks and cap space as the primary resources to deploy, i doubt Jerome will be their plan A but if it's July 5th, he's hanging out on the RFA market after all their other moves and their MLE is available, I could see him possibly fitting into their picture. Especially if they've used a high draft pick on an on ball guard and are looking for a vet willing to compete for a starting job but come off bench if necessary. He sort of reminds me of their Tyler Johnson RFA pursuit from way back when.

Jerome is not restricted.

Him and Sam Merrill are unrestricted free agents.

[cavs4872]

Pacers success 10-deep really has me wondering if we pushed Allen to the bench and rolled with

Garland/Jerome
Mitchell/Merrill
Strus/Okoro
Hunter/Wade
Mobley/Allen

Jerome and Merrill are probably gone this summer so would have to be CPJ and Tyson in those spots.

Plus, Hunter didn't seem comfortable with the starters.

But yes Carlisle ran 10 deep his championship season, i believe. Even with Butler and Beaubois out.

I worded that kinda poorly and was more so wondering if we had ran that lineup against Indy. Who knows ig

[JonFromVA]

Nets fan here checking in on Jerome (which jbk wisely noted a month ago on nets forum) - if they were to offer him something close to multi-year NTMLE (similar to okoro deal) it seems like Cleveland would probably not match that?

Nets are probably going to be active in the guard market from the draft through the end of the summer with a lot of draft picks and cap space as the primary resources to deploy, i doubt Jerome will be their plan A but if it's July 5th, he's hanging out on the RFA market after all their other moves and their MLE is available, I could see him possibly fitting into their picture. Especially if they've used a high draft pick on an on ball guard and are looking for a vet willing to compete for a starting job but come off bench if necessary. He sort of reminds me of their Tyler Johnson RFA pursuit from way back when.

Jerome is not restricted.

Him and Sam Merrill are unrestricted free agents.

In addition the Cavs can if they choose offer Jerome an early Bird package with raises that would slightly beat the Non-tax payer's MLE.

So you'd need to woo him away either with more money, an expanded role, moving closer to where he grew up, better friends than Hunter, Mitchell, and Altman , etc. Oh, well, probably not the last one.

[JujitsuFlip]

Pacers success 10-deep really has me wondering if we pushed Allen to the bench and rolled with

Garland/Jerome
Mitchell/Merrill
Strus/Okoro
Hunter/Wade
Mobley/Allen

Jerome and Merrill are probably gone this summer so would have to be CPJ and Tyson in those spots.

Plus, Hunter didn't seem comfortable with the starters.

But yes Carlisle ran 10 deep his championship season, i believe. Even with Butler and Beaubois out.

I worded that kinda poorly and was more so wondering if we had ran that lineup against Indy. Who knows ig

Eh, i don't think i woulda wanted a steady diet of Hunter on Siakam. That's not a matchup in favor of the Cavs.

Plus 3 of your proposed starting 5 missed game 2. Those same 3 didn't play in game 1 or couldn't finish it.

Outta half of game 4 a different player from your starting 5 didn't play.

Matchups and lineups were not our issue in the Pacers series, health was.

We were forced into giving TJ, Merrill, Wade, and Okoro too large of roles, that was always going to be a losing recipe. But we didn't have a choice, health forced Kenny's hand.

[JujitsuFlip]

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2025/5/27/24438308/gambo-suns-coaching-search-down-to-four-maybe-five-right-now?_gl=1*gb6530*_ga*MTMxNTk0NjM4My4xNzM2MjYwMDU1*_ga_2M5GYNY1YS*czE3NDg2Nzk2ODIkbzU2JGcwJHQxNzQ4Njc5NjgyJGo2MCRsMCRoMA..

Looks like the Cavs may be losing a top assistant one way or another.

[JujitsuFlip]

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2025/5/27/24438308/gambo-suns-coaching-search-down-to-four-maybe-five-right-now?_gl=1*gb6530*_ga*MTMxNTk0NjM4My4xNzM2MjYwMDU1*_ga_2M5GYNY1YS*czE3NDg2Nzk2ODIkbzU2JGcwJHQxNzQ4Njc5NjgyJGo2MCRsMCRoMA..

Looks like the Cavs may be losing a top assistant one way or another.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45435950/sources-cavaliers-bryant-ott-finalists-suns-coaching-job

They are the 2 finalists it looks like.

[JonFromVA]

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2025/5/27/24438308/gambo-suns-coaching-search-down-to-four-maybe-five-right-now?_gl=1*gb6530*_ga*MTMxNTk0NjM4My4xNzM2MjYwMDU1*_ga_2M5GYNY1YS*czE3NDg2Nzk2ODIkbzU2JGcwJHQxNzQ4Njc5NjgyJGo2MCRsMCRoMA..

Looks like the Cavs may be losing a top assistant one way or another.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45435950/sources-cavaliers-bryant-ott-finalists-suns-coaching-job

They are the 2 finalists it looks like.

Well if this didn't involve Ishiba and the potential he just sees this as a way to take something from Dan and hire an MSU guy: I'd say kudos to Kenny for picking assistants that other teams admire and aspire to become head coaches themselves.

Presumably the Suns are going to trade KD and not subject him to a rookie head coach know for player development?

Should be interesting ...

[JujitsuFlip]

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2025/5/27/24438308/gambo-suns-coaching-search-down-to-four-maybe-five-right-now?_gl=1*gb6530*_ga*MTMxNTk0NjM4My4xNzM2MjYwMDU1*_ga_2M5GYNY1YS*czE3NDg2Nzk2ODIkbzU2JGcwJHQxNzQ4Njc5NjgyJGo2MCRsMCRoMA..

Looks like the Cavs may be losing a top assistant one way or another.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45435950/sources-cavaliers-bryant-ott-finalists-suns-coaching-job

They are the 2 finalists it looks like.

Well if this didn't involve Ishiba and the potential he just sees this as a way to take something from Dan and hire an MSU guy: I'd say kudos to Kenny for picking assistants that other teams admire and aspire to become head coaches themselves.

Presumably the Suns are going to trade KD and not subject him to a rookie head coach know for player development?

Should be interesting ...

I almost wonder if this ends up like a Blatt/Lue or Beilein/jb situation where they both end up there in a head coach/associate head coach tandem hire.

[JonFromVA]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45435950/sources-cavaliers-bryant-ott-finalists-suns-coaching-job

They are the 2 finalists it looks like.

Well if this didn't involve Ishiba and the potential he just sees this as a way to take something from Dan and hire an MSU guy: I'd say kudos to Kenny for picking assistants that other teams admire and aspire to become head coaches themselves.

Presumably the Suns are going to trade KD and not subject him to a rookie head coach know for player development?

Should be interesting ...

I almost wonder if this ends up like a Blatt/Lue or Beilein/jb situation where they both end up there in a head coach/associate head coach tandem hire.

Well the Knicks job is open now, so could be Ott to Phoenix and Bryant to the Knicks - if they can't catch a bigger fish.

*edit* just noticed you had the same thought in the Around the NBA thread

[JujitsuFlip]

Well if this didn't involve Ishiba and the potential he just sees this as a way to take something from Dan and hire an MSU guy: I'd say kudos to Kenny for picking assistants that other teams admire and aspire to become head coaches themselves.

Presumably the Suns are going to trade KD and not subject him to a rookie head coach know for player development?

Should be interesting ...

I almost wonder if this ends up like a Blatt/Lue or Beilein/jb situation where they both end up there in a head coach/associate head coach tandem hire.

Well the Knicks job is open now, so could be Ott to Phoenix and Bryant to the Knicks - if they can't catch a bigger fish.

*edit* just noticed you had the same thought in the Around the NBA thread

Yup, i assume timing wise that is why Knicks moved when they did. They at least want a convo with Bryant.

If we lose both, kudos to them. Winning 64 games gets your staff looked at. Hopefully Kenny can find 2 good guys to fill the void, in the hypothetical.

[JujitsuFlip]

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/breaking-news/article/phoenix-suns-hire-jordan-ott-as-head-coach-reports-164533301.html

Cavs lose Ott, kudos to him.

[jbk1234]

I find it a little curious that our assistants were thought this highly of after the Pacers series.

[JujitsuFlip]

I find it a little curious that our assistants were thought this highly of after the Pacers series.

5 injured games does not erase the other 86. We will probably see our UFA similarly sought after next month.

But to be fair, a lot of people are saying because Ott went to MSU, that is why he landed the gig. I find that disingenuous but who knows.

[JujitsuFlip]

https://sports.yahoo.com/article/cavs-brought-6-10-wing-214849082.html

6'10" wing who shoots 3s and plays D, yes please, sign me up.

https://www.si.com/nba/cavaliers/news/cleveland-cavaliers-workout-kansas-state-guard-coleman-hawkins

Another 6'10" wing, not as good in the shooting department but he can steal and blocks shots. Article gets our picks wrong but that's okay.

https://kingjamesgospel.com/hidden-nba-draft-prospect-perfect-answer-cleveland-cavaliers-problem

Lastly a 5, probably more headed towards a 2way spot or a domestic Charge stash.

[toooskies]

Settle is tall but doesn't have the stats to show that he knows how to use it. One very good shooting year, one okay-ish shooting year, three bad shooting years on his resume.

Hawkins is an all-around player but with a low TS% and high TOs, he probably has a big decision-making problem.

Omoruyi had some pretty decent big man stats. Absurd block rates when at Rutgers (still good at a Alabama), high efficiency on his shots. Fouls a ton. Could be a 10 min/game backup in a few years.

Fedor mentioned Alijah Martin on his podcast, a national champion short guard who statistically looks like an average shooter and a reluctant passer. Didn't watch enough Florida to know much otherwise. I probably prefer the Mark Sears stat profile.

Also mentioned Tyrese Proctor, who until late in his junior year kind of under-delivered as a tall PG who can shoot his first two years, but worked out a little better as a SG who could be a secondary ballhandler this year.

[JujitsuFlip]

Settle is tall but doesn't have the stats to show that he knows how to use it. One very good shooting year, one okay-ish shooting year, three bad shooting years on his resume.

Hawkins is an all-around player but with a low TS% and high TOs, he probably has a big decision-making problem.

Omoruyi had some pretty decent big man stats. Absurd block rates when at Rutgers (still good at a Alabama), high efficiency on his shots. Fouls a ton. Could be a 10 min/game backup in a few years.

Fedor mentioned Alijah Martin on his podcast, a national champion short guard who statistically looks like an average shooter and a reluctant passer. Didn't watch enough Florida to know much otherwise. I probably prefer the Mark Sears stat profile.

Also mentioned Tyrese Proctor, who until late in his junior year kind of under-delivered as a tall PG who can shoot his first two years, but worked out a little better as a SG who could be a secondary ballhandler this year.

Did not like what i saw of Proctor in the NCAA tournament one bit, he played scared. But a 6'6" PG does sound good, on paper.

I am out on Martin, a 6'2" SG is the last thing this team needs.

No thanks on Sears too, tired of 6'1" PG we already have that in Garland and CPJ, let's switch it up.

[toooskies]

Settle is tall but doesn't have the stats to show that he knows how to use it. One very good shooting year, one okay-ish shooting year, three bad shooting years on his resume.

Hawkins is an all-around player but with a low TS% and high TOs, he probably has a big decision-making problem.

Omoruyi had some pretty decent big man stats. Absurd block rates when at Rutgers (still good at a Alabama), high efficiency on his shots. Fouls a ton. Could be a 10 min/game backup in a few years.

Fedor mentioned Alijah Martin on his podcast, a national champion short guard who statistically looks like an average shooter and a reluctant passer. Didn't watch enough Florida to know much otherwise. I probably prefer the Mark Sears stat profile.

Also mentioned Tyrese Proctor, who until late in his junior year kind of under-delivered as a tall PG who can shoot his first two years, but worked out a little better as a SG who could be a secondary ballhandler this year.

Did not like what i saw of Proctor in the NCAA tournament one bit, he played scared. But a 6'6" PG does sound good, on paper.

I am out on Martin, a 6'2" SG is the last thing this team needs.

No thanks on Sears too, tired of 6'1" PG we already have that in Garland and CPJ, let's switch it up.

You're not getting a guy who can dribble, shoot, pass, defend, contribute right away, 100% reliable, has room to develop into an NBA player, and has ideal PG size at the end of the 2nd round. You're going to have to have to pick a thing or two that are flaws that keep most guys like that from developing into NBA players and hope they're an exception. You go looking for the Fred VanVleets.

I find PG as a reasonable place to start stocking up if only because we're pretty thin there if we lose Jerome and especially if we decide to move Garland. Finding another guy who can beat full-court pressure by himself feels like a priority given how much trouble Jerome had with it against Indiana and how much CPJ has had trouble with it historically.

[JujitsuFlip]

Settle is tall but doesn't have the stats to show that he knows how to use it. One very good shooting year, one okay-ish shooting year, three bad shooting years on his resume.

Hawkins is an all-around player but with a low TS% and high TOs, he probably has a big decision-making problem.

Omoruyi had some pretty decent big man stats. Absurd block rates when at Rutgers (still good at a Alabama), high efficiency on his shots. Fouls a ton. Could be a 10 min/game backup in a few years.

Fedor mentioned Alijah Martin on his podcast, a national champion short guard who statistically looks like an average shooter and a reluctant passer. Didn't watch enough Florida to know much otherwise. I probably prefer the Mark Sears stat profile.

Also mentioned Tyrese Proctor, who until late in his junior year kind of under-delivered as a tall PG who can shoot his first two years, but worked out a little better as a SG who could be a secondary ballhandler this year.

Did not like what i saw of Proctor in the NCAA tournament one bit, he played scared. But a 6'6" PG does sound good, on paper.

I am out on Martin, a 6'2" SG is the last thing this team needs.

No thanks on Sears too, tired of 6'1" PG we already have that in Garland and CPJ, let's switch it up.

You're not getting a guy who can dribble, shoot, pass, defend, contribute right away, 100% reliable, has room to develop into an NBA player, and has ideal PG size at the end of the 2nd round. You're going to have to have to pick a thing or two that are flaws that keep most guys like that from developing into NBA players and hope they're an exception. You go looking for the Fred VanVleets.

I find PG as a reasonable place to start stocking up if only because we're pretty thin there if we lose Jerome and especially if we decide to move Garland. Finding another guy who can beat full-court pressure by himself feels like a priority given how much trouble Jerome had with it against Indiana and how much CPJ has had trouble with it historically.

I'm still out on 6'1" PG lol we get killed by size every playoffs. I'll take a chance on Proctor, since he's 6'6".

They need old college dudes with high floors, regardless of what the flaws are.

No more projects, we have a cat we drafted top 39 in 2022 and he's 2 years away from being 2 years away.

As a 2nd apron team, we must hit on these 2 picks.

[toooskies]

Did not like what i saw of Proctor in the NCAA tournament one bit, he played scared. But a 6'6" PG does sound good, on paper.

I am out on Martin, a 6'2" SG is the last thing this team needs.

No thanks on Sears too, tired of 6'1" PG we already have that in Garland and CPJ, let's switch it up.

You're not getting a guy who can dribble, shoot, pass, defend, contribute right away, 100% reliable, has room to develop into an NBA player, and has ideal PG size at the end of the 2nd round. You're going to have to have to pick a thing or two that are flaws that keep most guys like that from developing into NBA players and hope they're an exception. You go looking for the Fred VanVleets.

I find PG as a reasonable place to start stocking up if only because we're pretty thin there if we lose Jerome and especially if we decide to move Garland. Finding another guy who can beat full-court pressure by himself feels like a priority given how much trouble Jerome had with it against Indiana and how much CPJ has had trouble with it historically.

I'm still out on 6'1" PG lol we get killed by size every playoffs. I'll take a chance on Proctor, since he's 6'6".

They need old college dudes with high floors, regardless of what the flaws are.

No more projects, we have a cat we drafted top 39 in 2022 and he's 2 years away from being 2 years away.

As a 2nd apron team, we must hit on these 2 picks.

That's an absurd outlook. There's no such thing as knowing you're drafting an NBA-worthy player in the late 2nd. Heck, there's no such thing as knowing you're drafting an NBA-worthy player in the late 1st.

Two guys from last year's late 2nd (46+) played 500 minutes, Quinton Post and Antonio Reeves. Only 26 players from 2019-2024 (6 drafts) have played 500+ minutes in the NBA, that's 4.5 per 14 picks, roughly one chance in three. Maybe one in two over a longer term as the recent picks get a chance for more run. But 500 minutes is an extremely low bar! That's CPJ's minutes from last year!

This isn't even the threshold of contributing at an NBA level, this is just getting a chance-- with some of those players only getting small chances on injury-ravaged teams. Most of the guys who are late draftees here didn't even make it on their first team-- seven of the guys from 2021, for instance, hit the 500 minute threshold, but only one-- Aaron Wiggins-- didn't change teams. Only one from 2020-- Isaiah Joe. None from 2019 stayed on their original team, although Terance Mann stuck around the Clippers until last year.

This isn't a "must hit" area of the draft.