Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest"/KD too

[nivisi9]

Is any team really beating..

- a young star who's a facilitating, 2-way, 6'8 wing, with further star development (Barnes).
Basically most valuable archetype in the league and still 23 yrs old.

- a top 10 pick, 6'8 pedigree as elite shooter (most valuable trait in league), has star potential and only 22 (Dick)

- Additional future 1st round picks on top of this.

I don't see any team beating this.

No one's going to offer a franchise corner stone like Barnes plus all those other additional assets.

Or can even afford to and still have elite team remaining. Or even wants to for a 31 yr old Giannis (very limited list if any)

Also we try and include a combination of future picks and keep 9# for one last top prospect with this new core. (Draft Coward replace Barnes archetype + elite shooting).

I would actually even be willing to include Shead as well, he has atleast some value after promising rookie season as future PG.

FINAL DEAL:
-Barnes
-Dick
-Shead
- 2026 1st
- 2028 1st
- 2030 1st

STARTERS
-Poeltl
-Giannis
- Ingram
- RJ
- IQ

BENCH:
C- 2025 2nd round pick/ Boucher/signing etc./Chomche
PF - Mogbo
SF - Coward (9th overall) /Battle
SG- Obaji
PG- Walter

Damn thats a deep and lethal young contender, teams will struggle to score on that lockdown D bench unit.

Team would be stacked now Giannis/Quickley/RJ/Poeltl/Ingram

have some combination of young studs remaining with some ceiling for the future:

Obaji, shead, Coward, one of Mogbo/Walter, Chomche

THATS THE DEAL

FAIR ON BOTH ENDS, BUCKS GET LEGIT LOADED PACKAGE

KEEPS US ELITE NOW, WITH A TON OF DEPTH, AND PROSPECTS FOR THE FUTURE.

SOMEONE SEND THIS TO MASAI

[TheRaptor!]

Yep.

Ingram and Siakam are the same tier of player. Both are all-star caliber guys who might make an all-nba team if the stars align.
Quick and Turner are both guys who are 4th/5th starters. I like Turner, but he has just as many flaws as IQ does. He is a center who averaged 6.5rpg and is not some elite defender. Blocks shots but isn't a great defender by any means.

You add Giannis to this team and we are easily at Indiana's level.

You going to add something to the conversation or no?

The kid thinks the 4th seeded pacers are some kind of super team lol

The stars just aligned for that mid ass team

[Psubs]

Doubt it.

No point to go after KD if you dont have Giannis. Isn't feasible to acquire both.

KD and cash for IQ and Agbaji (would save Phx $10 million plus taxes)

Giannis for Poeltl, Dick, RJ, #9, 2027 1st pick and 2029 1st pick

PG Shead - JaKobe - UDFA
SG Ingram - JaKobe - Lawson
SF Durant - Battle
PF Scottie - Mogbo
C Giannis - #39 / Chomche

UDFA PG - Proctor, Sears, Nembhard, Small

UDFA Big - maybe Goldin goes undrafted.

Did you miss the part where it was the suns that were demanding a center?

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

So send Poeltl to Phoenix and Agbaji and Richards to Milwaukee.

[TheRaptor!]

I wonder if you had this same opinion back when Siakam was a Raptor and BI wasn't. I'm doubtful.

Siakam is a better player than Ingram. He's actually available to play for an entire season and playoffs, and he can actually play defence. And even on the offensive end, he's easier to plug into any system than Ingram (neither one is a first option, so that matters).

It's so funny reading this thread and seeing Raptor fans convince themselves Ingram is a top 15 player now and Quickley is better than Myles Turner and Giannis is better than Jokic.

Especially since it's the same posters who didn't have those opinions before these players became Raptors/were rumoured to be trade targets. It's just pure homerism.

Give it a damn rest

The Pacers are a 4th seeded 50 win team in the weak ass East.

Siakam > Ingram but not by much
Turner = Poeltl
Haliburton<<<<< Giannis
RJ and Quickly > Nembhard and Nesmith (did anyone even know who tf they were before round 2?)

I'm talkin bout talent level right now, fits can be fixed after, veterans ring chasing can be acquired later.

Have some damn vision

[earthtone]

The only modern team that has been able to win a title with zero front court shooting is the Warriors and they got away with it because they have 2 of the top 5 shooters of all time on their team.

We’ve seen the Bucks offense struggle in the playoffs WITH shooting. So we’re going to try and make a worse version of that?

I don't understand why people are even arguing against this. It's a terrible idea to have Poeltl clog the paint with Giannis on the court. I'd literally rather have Olynyk lol.

It’s pretty much just Shakril. If you know their history you know they’re going down with the Poeltl ship no matter how much replacing him might benefit the team.

I actually don’t think Giannis/Poeltl is a horrible fit, but I know I’m in the minority on this.

I think people really simplify what spacing is to exclusively 3 pointers. I wish I had synergy to verify this, but I’d guess Poeltl is in the top half of centres for touches past the free-throw line extended, if not Top 10.

Having a centre who can be a ball-handler and decision maker from any point on the court counts as spacing. And when you add in how elite he is as a screener on the perimeter and using Gortat screens in the paint, he’s not a guy who clogs the lane.

Obviously having a three-point marksmen as your starting C is the ideal fit for Giannis, but I don’t think that makes him unplayable with Poeltl. I could see Giannis/Poeltl pick & rolls being a very effective play, especially if Giannis keeps up his improvement in the midrange.

[Sandman88]

Would ya'll do RJ + Ochai for Jamal Murray?

No, Jamal is cooked

[earthtone]

In what world do you think Giannis won't have that kinda value? This is not an over the hill KD or a Bridges/Donovan Mitchell level player here...This is an all time great top 3 player in the world type player....Giannis is not on his walk year they don't have to trade him even if he demands a trade....Bucks will get a haul for Giannis regardless of which team trades for him....Just like the GM already came out and said....Your not going to get Giannis on a discount and if you think you are ....Good luck...

I'm going based on history. Name another deal where any player landed a top, established young player like Barnes + 4-5 unprotected 1sts

Not many players on the level of Giannis have been traded before....LeBron always walked in Free agency and was never traded....Kobe was never traded, MJ was never traded.....I don't remember a time a top 3 player was ever traded....So this is not a player you can look at the history because it does not exist....

A 35 year old KD costed the Suns Mikal Bridges/Cam Johnson(Their best young players) + 4 First rounders...And thats a old KD...

Giannis value will in fact be a few of your best young players + Draft picks + A lotto pick in this upcoming draft....Like i said Giannis is also not on his walk year so this is not a Siakam/OG situation either...

^I think this is the most I’ve ever agreed with one of your posts

Its wild that people are trying to say Giannis won’t command a top-tier package. The man has been 1st team All-NBA for the last seven seasons straight.

Anything less than Barnes + a treasure trove of picks + matching salaries doesn’t get it done imo. The Bucks have no reason to take anything less

[bballsparkin]

But when you look at the team they've put around him the man basically has to ask out.

Dames Achilles tear is the main reason this is being talked about tbh

Middleton was nice with Giannis. They fumbled the Jrue trade and likely other stuff. It was a good run. Some of the faults Giannis himself and his requests.

[WuTang_CMB]

????? Lol

Read on Twitter

[ArthurVandelay]

I'm going based on history. Name another deal where any player landed a top, established young player like Barnes + 4-5 unprotected 1sts

Not many players on the level of Giannis have been traded before....LeBron always walked in Free agency and was never traded....Kobe was never traded, MJ was never traded.....I don't remember a time a top 3 player was ever traded....So this is not a player you can look at the history because it does not exist....

A 35 year old KD costed the Suns Mikal Bridges/Cam Johnson(Their best young players) + 4 First rounders...And thats a old KD...

Giannis value will in fact be a few of your best young players + Draft picks + A lotto pick in this upcoming draft....Like i said Giannis is also not on his walk year so this is not a Siakam/OG situation either...

^I think this is the most I’ve ever agreed with one of your posts

Its wild that people are trying to say Giannis won’t command a top-tier package. The man has been 1st team All-NBA for the last seven seasons straight.

Anything less than Barnes + a treasure trove of picks + matching salaries doesn’t get it done imo. The Bucks have no reason to take anything less

You’re not wrong, but Luka?

A lot of hand wringing in this thread but Giannis signs off on where he goes.

[Duffman100]

????? Lol

Read on Twitter

Oh Pensare...

[Clutch0z24]

Not many players on the level of Giannis have been traded before....LeBron always walked in Free agency and was never traded....Kobe was never traded, MJ was never traded.....I don't remember a time a top 3 player was ever traded....So this is not a player you can look at the history because it does not exist....

A 35 year old KD costed the Suns Mikal Bridges/Cam Johnson(Their best young players) + 4 First rounders...And thats a old KD...

Giannis value will in fact be a few of your best young players + Draft picks + A lotto pick in this upcoming draft....Like i said Giannis is also not on his walk year so this is not a Siakam/OG situation either...

^I think this is the most I’ve ever agreed with one of your posts

Its wild that people are trying to say Giannis won’t command a top-tier package. The man has been 1st team All-NBA for the last seven seasons straight.

Anything less than Barnes + a treasure trove of picks + matching salaries doesn’t get it done imo. The Bucks have no reason to take anything less

You’re not wrong, but Luka?

A lot of hand wringing in this thread but Giannis signs off on where he goes.

Can't look at the Luka trade...That one sniffed a trade in bad faith....Two buddy Gms trade with each other....When the rest of the Gms around the league were pissed off because if Luka was listed as available for trade the whole league comes in to offer up their best packages...

That deal was made by a GM who made a bone headed move...Not a bidding war....Bucks Gm already said "If we trade Giannis we are getting the best package for him" If teams low ball him then they do exactly what Nico did and just get a better player than Barnes like a Mitchell/Brown-White/KAT-OG type of package since they have no draft picks to rebuild with...

[ConSarnit]

I don't understand why people are even arguing against this. It's a terrible idea to have Poeltl clog the paint with Giannis on the court. I'd literally rather have Olynyk lol.

It’s pretty much just Shakril. If you know their history you know they’re going down with the Poeltl ship no matter how much replacing him might benefit the team.

I actually don’t think Giannis/Poeltl is a horrible fit, but I know I’m in the minority on this.

I think people really simplify what spacing is to exclusively 3 pointers. I wish I had synergy to verify this, but I’d guess Poeltl is in the top half of centres for touches past the free-throw line extended, if not Top 10.

Having a centre who can be a ball-handler and decision maker from any point on the court counts as spacing. And when you add in how elite he is as a screener on the perimeter and using Gortat screens in the paint, he’s not a guy who clogs the lane.

Obviously having a three-point marksmen as your starting C is the ideal fit for Giannis, but I don’t think that makes him unplayable with Poeltl. I could see Giannis/Poeltl pick & rolls being a very effective play, especially if Giannis keeps up his improvement in the midrange.

I agree that Poeltl can provide value with his screening but definitely do not agree that Poeltl is any type of threat as a ball handler. There is almost no reason to guard Poeltl past the free throw line because you don’t have to respect him as a shooter and he can’t beat people off the dribble. His drive game is almost non-existent. Even the threat of him backing someone down in a post up isn’t there. He’s not a Sabonis or Sengun type who are real threats in the hand off/hub game because they can drive and post up more effectively. I am also highly dubious that Giannis midrange game (which was ok this year) is sustainable. His free throw and 3pt shooting remains quite bad and it is likely his midrange game was an anomaly.

MIL spent Giannis entire prime surrounding him with shooting bigs and their offense was never that good. Lopez is good screener and he provided spacing. Removing that spacing for Giannis and his job gets harder.

[YogurtProducer]

????? Lol

Read on Twitter

So really Giannis is only negative becuase his FT% is only 62% and he really is not bad otherwise? And isnt a 62% FT still a positive offensive possession?

Pretty wild GIannis is by far the worst FT but best long 2 shooter on the list lol

[earthtone]

Not many players on the level of Giannis have been traded before....LeBron always walked in Free agency and was never traded....Kobe was never traded, MJ was never traded.....I don't remember a time a top 3 player was ever traded....So this is not a player you can look at the history because it does not exist....

A 35 year old KD costed the Suns Mikal Bridges/Cam Johnson(Their best young players) + 4 First rounders...And thats a old KD...

Giannis value will in fact be a few of your best young players + Draft picks + A lotto pick in this upcoming draft....Like i said Giannis is also not on his walk year so this is not a Siakam/OG situation either...

^I think this is the most I’ve ever agreed with one of your posts

Its wild that people are trying to say Giannis won’t command a top-tier package. The man has been 1st team All-NBA for the last seven seasons straight.

Anything less than Barnes + a treasure trove of picks + matching salaries doesn’t get it done imo. The Bucks have no reason to take anything less

You’re not wrong, but Luka?

A lot of hand wringing in this thread but Giannis signs off on where he goes.

I mean the Luka deal was one of the most shocking trades in NBA history, at least in my lifetime. The outlier of all outliers, not sure it has use as a metric for any future trades

KD chose Brooklyn too, doesn’t mean the Suns didn’t get assets.

[Clutch0z24]

????? Lol

Read on Twitter

Yeah that guy is Bias and is a Barnes lover so he does not want Barnes to be in any trade....Giannis doesn't have to be Curry from 3 to still be a top 3 player right now...You add shooters around Giannis which is why Barnes would be the main player in any deal because he doesn't fit a lick with Giannis.

[WuTang_CMB]

But everyone knows Giannis isn’t a shooter.

He’s the modern day Shaq

at a certain point ya we love barnes and he’s a really good player and we all hope hengets to that next level

But this is giannis. Hall of famer. Top 3 guy for prob another 3-5 years lol

Tf we talking about

[MiamiSPX]

But everyone knows Giannis isn’t a shooter.

He’s the modern day Shaq

at a certain point ya we love barnes and he’s a really good player and we all hope hengets to that next level

But this is giannis. Hall of famer. Top 3 guy for prob another 3-5 years lol

Tf we talking about

There is nothing to talk about. West Palm Beach is about a 1hr 15min drive from my place. Say the word and I will go drive Scottie to the airport myself.

[Duffman100]

But everyone knows Giannis isn’t a shooter.

He’s the modern day Shaq

at a certain point ya we love barnes and he’s a really good player and we all hope hengets to that next level

But this is giannis. Hall of famer. Top 3 guy for prob another 3-5 years lol

Tf we talking about

If a generational player wants to be here. Asks to be there. And you have a good okay team alongside him, you do it.

Maybe you attest another start.

[Shakril]

He shot .359 from three that postseason. Your example doesn't qualify.

I can't think of any good examples in the modern NBA. The last one I can think of is OKC way back in 2011 (Ibaka and Perkins).

The overwhelming majority of teams that make the Finals don't have *both* lead frontcourt players unable to make long range shots.

The only modern team that has been able to win a title with zero front court shooting is the Warriors and they got away with it because they have 2 of the top 5 shooters of all time on their team.

We’ve seen the Bucks offense struggle in the playoffs WITH shooting. So we’re going to try and make a worse version of that?

I don't understand why people are even arguing against this. It's a terrible idea to have Poeltl clog the paint with Giannis on the court. I'd literally rather have Olynyk lol.

No, you are resitent to facts and cling stubbornly to your opinion. And the myth the Poeltl cloggs the paint is entirely based on his lack of shooting. But what gets ignored is, that he very often is in the high post as a faciitlator which opens up the lane. Poeltl makes on the regular passes to a cutting teammate, which would not be possible if he were clogging the lane. Poeltl is setting a lot of screens outside the three point line, how is he clogging the lane in that situation? Poeltl isnt standing in the lane and waiting for the ball, he is a very active player on offense.