OKC Thunder Trades and Transaction Thread

[Devilanche]

In the draft I think we should try to draft a bigger two-way forward and a center that can develop to replace IHart once his contract is up in another season.

We don’t have 2 roster spot unless you move both Dillon and Dieng . But if you do move both you should be targeting one spot for an immediate rotation help given wiggins / joe haven’t been consistent in the playoffs

[Devilanche]

In a vacuum I would rather draft a more NBA ready player for a contender

I’m in favour of trading out of 15 and drafting at 24 this season. Consider topic our high upside projects for minutes and get a ready rookie at 24 .

[Devilanche]

No, but I'm going find it highly entertaining when everyone who was ripping on Presti for not adding a better bench option than Wiggins/Joe/Jaylin/Cason/etc. during the Denver series suddenly start calling Presti the greatest ever.

We can add Kenrich/topic/dieng/dillon to the list as either not proven contributor in the playoff or low minutes contributor in the playoff(kenrich)

Out of that 8 only Cason has proved enough but even then he probably need expand on his offence and be more consistent contributor on that side of the game.

[dlughie]

Topic was considered the best P&R PG prospect in a decade. If he does nothing else but come in and run P&R with IH and Chet the offense will put up big numbers with Topic on the floor. The only knock on his defense is that he can occasionally get run past by small, fast guards. He can improve his footwork to counter that, which working with Dort and Cason should be doable.

Yeah, he was considered so good that he was taken 11th in historically weak draft. Injury is not that important because teams will always risk for great talent. If Dylan Harper had same injury as Topic, he would still be drafted in top 5.

Topic is subpar athletically, his defense is not good, his shot is average. Very similar to Micic but Micic is better shooter.
Also his upright posture when dribbling and attacking the rim is concerning.

You will see that Mitchell will outplay him easily if both are on the roster. He's just more rounded player with fine fundamentals.

Topic will lose value if he sits most of the next year. So it's better to move him and get something for him. There are plenty of teams who need guards like him and can give them serious minutes.

We need guys like Coward, Boyles or Bryant. They would fit like glove on this roster.

MPJ was supposed to go 1st and fell to 14th because of injury. Injury makes or breaks a prospect.

[Xatticus]

No, but I'm going find it highly entertaining when everyone who was ripping on Presti for not adding a better bench option than Wiggins/Joe/Jaylin/Cason/etc. during the Denver series suddenly start calling Presti the greatest ever.

We can add Kenrich/topic/dieng/dillon to the list as either not proven contributor in the playoff or low minutes contributor in the playoff(kenrich)

Out of that 8 only Cason has proved enough but even then he probably need expand on his offence and be more consistent contributor on that side of the game.

I don’t expect a consolidation trade. I believe that would be the wrong way to go barring an exceptional opportunity like Caruso. Identifying and developing talent is what has gotten us here and I expect we will continue down that road. We have to be mindful of our finances if we are going to keep this train rolling. Being able to make moves isn’t justification for making them.

The thing is… if you look at how we acquired the players we have and the draft capital invested inititally, this roster isn’t exceptionally talented. I believe that we can continue to improve with the formula that has worked thus far, but we will need to possess a willingness to make way for new talent. I wouldn’t be trying to package these assets for a high-priced vet. I’d try to acquire future assets for our redundancies while developing the best talents we can find.

[Devilanche]

No, but I'm going find it highly entertaining when everyone who was ripping on Presti for not adding a better bench option than Wiggins/Joe/Jaylin/Cason/etc. during the Denver series suddenly start calling Presti the greatest ever.

We can add Kenrich/topic/dieng/dillon to the list as either not proven contributor in the playoff or low minutes contributor in the playoff(kenrich)

Out of that 8 only Cason has proved enough but even then he probably need expand on his offence and be more consistent contributor on that side of the game.

I don’t expect a consolidation trade. I believe that would be the wrong way to go barring an exceptional opportunity like Caruso. Identifying and developing talent is what has gotten us here and I expect we will continue down that road. We have to be mindful of our finances if we are going to keep this train rolling. Being able to make moves isn’t justification for making them.

The thing is… if you look at how we acquired the players we have and the draft capital invested inititally, this roster isn’t exceptionally talented. I believe that we can continue to improve with the formula that has worked thus far, but we will need to possess a willingness to make way for new talent. I wouldn’t be trying to package these assets for a high-priced vet. I’d try to acquire future assets for our redundancies while developing the best talents we can find.

I think there’s some room to move at least one one of Joe/wiggins for a more stable playoff contributor.

Continuing to acquire and develop talent doesn’t exclude us from tweaking our rotation.

[Zagor]

i'm hyped on topic not on his expected performance in 25-26. i'm high on his potential delivery from 2026-27 and 2027-28 on a rookie deal after big contracts are handed.

even if mitchell is a better player now (i doubt it, btw) the situation is not comparable at all when you factor everything together (age, long term projection, contract situation, timeline of thunder's payroll).

topic is a player you hope can put you some day in that situation james harden put the thunder in 2012 - do you max him? do you cash on him?

he's got that kind of upside.

Mitchell's age is a positive thing, it means he already has some experience. He had a solid rookie year with a lot of positive signs, if he's going to have a good summer, then I believe next season he'll be able to contribute for us even in playoffs. Young man has fundamentals.
Yes, next summer he'll be FA, but I think we'll be able to offer him Kenrich type of deal or even Wiggins.

When we spoke about Topic, he's from Balkan region, I'm also from there. Historically speaking young athletes from Balkan who had serious injury, typically don't develop into a good players. I know mentality, they need a lot of ball in their hands and they need a lot of minutes to feel comfortable.

When they can't do their thing, they struggle to adjust. And they typically are a bad defenders, so it's tough for coaches to give them more time.
Coming young from Europe and coming young from US colleges is very different thing. American( Canadian and Australian) athletes were taught from the beginning to rely on working hard in gym and develop their bodies. So they struggle a lot less with speed and physicality of the game.
It's important to say that most of good European NBA players are bigs or big forwards. Almost none of the guards.

We had Pokusevski and Dieng. I predict the same thing with this guy.

But I respect your opinion and others. I hope I'll be wrong, that means we would get a third creator.
Time will tell.

MPJ was supposed to go 1st and fell to 14th because of injury. Injury makes or breaks a prospect.

Yes, but that was pretty strong draft year and MPJ had back injury which is historically very risky injury.

[Mr Thunder Nick]

Trade Dieng (to get a roster spot) 15'pick and 24'pick to get a top 8'-10' pick

[bbms]

players the thunder brought in for a visit:

cedric coward
kobe sanders
danny wolf

[Xatticus]

We can add Kenrich/topic/dieng/dillon to the list as either not proven contributor in the playoff or low minutes contributor in the playoff(kenrich)

Out of that 8 only Cason has proved enough but even then he probably need expand on his offence and be more consistent contributor on that side of the game.

I don’t expect a consolidation trade. I believe that would be the wrong way to go barring an exceptional opportunity like Caruso. Identifying and developing talent is what has gotten us here and I expect we will continue down that road. We have to be mindful of our finances if we are going to keep this train rolling. Being able to make moves isn’t justification for making them.

The thing is… if you look at how we acquired the players we have and the draft capital invested inititally, this roster isn’t exceptionally talented. I believe that we can continue to improve with the formula that has worked thus far, but we will need to possess a willingness to make way for new talent. I wouldn’t be trying to package these assets for a high-priced vet. I’d try to acquire future assets for our redundancies while developing the best talents we can find.

I think there’s some room to move at least one one of Joe/wiggins for a more stable playoff contributor.

Continuing to acquire and develop talent doesn’t exclude us from tweaking our rotation.

The issue I have with this is that the potential cost could be heavy. The addition would have to be temporary or it will compromise our ability to retain what we already have in the near future. I already see the Caruso addition/extension as a replacement for Dort or Wallace when they come up for extensions. I don’t see how we keep Hartenstein beyond his current deal and it’s conceivable that we don’t even pick up his third-year option.

I think Joe is gone. He is a luxury piece that is always going to be a liability at the defensive end when the postseason comes around. I’d like to get a protected pick or a pick swap in return though. Regarding Wiggins, I very much disagree. He didn’t look great in these playoffs, but I trust him. At the least, he is tremendous value in the regular season that can alleviate the minutes burden for some of our key postseason players, but he has also shown a lot of improvement even up through this season. His rates keep climbing. He is getting better. I don’t see the names being floated as upgrades and they certainly won’t provide the same value relative to cost.

At some point in your rotation, you need to rely on cheap salaries to give you quality minutes or you are going to run into the issues facing Boston. You simply can’t afford to pay a full rotation of impact players at market rates. Beyond this, an analysis of our roster demonstrates our true advantage over other organizations. Wiggins, Joe, Hartenstein, Mitchell, and Jaylin were all second-round picks. Caruso, Dort, and Kenrich were all undrafted. People think we tanked to build this roster, but we developed it. We don’t have a roster full of high draft-capital players. I believe that continuing to identify talent and continuing to develop that talent can yield an even better roster than this one. We have the luxury of waiting out the development of prospects even if they aren’t immediately contributing, but that requires that we don’t tie up assets into players that have overinflated perceived values due to their outsized roles with lesser organizational systems. I don’t see Dieng as a bust. I don’t see Wallace as a role player. I still see prospects with upside.

[Kizz Fastfists]

The issue I have with this is that the potential cost could be heavy. The addition would have to be temporary or it will compromise our ability to retain what we already have in the near future. I already see the Caruso addition/extension as a replacement for Dort or Wallace when they come up for extensions. I don’t see how we keep Hartenstein beyond his current deal and it’s conceivable that we don’t even pick up his third-year option.

I see Caruso as a temporary player and the first one out the door if there is a cap crunch and they have to move someone. Caruso will be 32 going into the '26-'27 season, when a potential cap crunch would arrive, and you think they should keep him over the significantly younger Dort and Cason?

[bbms]

The issue I have with this is that the potential cost could be heavy. The addition would have to be temporary or it will compromise our ability to retain what we already have in the near future. I already see the Caruso addition/extension as a replacement for Dort or Wallace when they come up for extensions. I don’t see how we keep Hartenstein beyond his current deal and it’s conceivable that we don’t even pick up his third-year option.

I see Caruso as a temporary player and the first one out the door if there is a cap crunch and they have to move someone. Caruso will be 32 going into the '26-'27 season, when a potential cap crunch would arrive, and you think they should keep him over the significantly younger Dort and Cason?

caruso is here to stay imo, for good. top 5 in xrapm this guy deliver nba beating quality minutes and the fact he's on the tail end of his career just make it logical his contract is based on use-value.

nobody is paying to get caruso what caruso delivers to the thunder.

otoh, players like hartenstein, dort and isaiah joe have deals specifically designed to maximize flexibility and trade value (even team options).

[Kizz Fastfists]

caruso is here to stay imo, for good. top 5 in xrapm this guy deliver nba beating quality minutes and the fact he's on the tail end of his career just make it logical his contract is based on use-value.

nobody is paying to get caruso what caruso delivers to the thunder.

otoh, players like hartenstein, dort and isaiah joe have deals specifically designed to maximize flexibility and trade value (even team options).

You believe that 30 year old Caruso only being able to play in 54 games, which was above his career average games per season, doesn't point to potential serious problems for 32 year old Caruso in terms of health and maintaining performance?

[bbms]

caruso is here to stay imo, for good. top 5 in xrapm this guy deliver nba beating quality minutes and the fact he's on the tail end of his career just make it logical his contract is based on use-value.

nobody is paying to get caruso what caruso delivers to the thunder.

otoh, players like hartenstein, dort and isaiah joe have deals specifically designed to maximize flexibility and trade value (even team options).

You believe that 30 year old Caruso only being able to play in 54 games, which was above his career average games per season, doesn't point to potential serious problems for 32 year old Caruso in terms of health and maintaining performance?

i don't think that's relevant, the commitment is already made. and if thunder gets a ring this season is because caruso put it on that denver series.

what i know about modern physiology on the age thing is that different athletes age differently. some high level athletes are washed up at 33, others are still elite athletes close to their primes at 37. also, what i know from modern physiology is that the drop off is steep and sudden so yeah it's tough to establish long term plan.

but caruso is 31, still young, didn't get heavy mileage until 25 and still an elite athlete.

also i believe you forgot to add his g league games and dnps by coach decision in 17/18 and 18/19 to your calcs, or you could take those seasons out at all. since 19-20 he's averaged 60 games/regular season.

[Xatticus]

The issue I have with this is that the potential cost could be heavy. The addition would have to be temporary or it will compromise our ability to retain what we already have in the near future. I already see the Caruso addition/extension as a replacement for Dort or Wallace when they come up for extensions. I don’t see how we keep Hartenstein beyond his current deal and it’s conceivable that we don’t even pick up his third-year option.

I see Caruso as a temporary player and the first one out the door if there is a cap crunch and they have to move someone. Caruso will be 32 going into the '26-'27 season, when a potential cap crunch would arrive, and you think they should keep him over the significantly younger Dort and Cason?

I made no statement of preference. Caruso was signed to a 4-year extension that won’t even begin until this summer. That’s a long-term commitment that will impact future decisions.

[Devilanche]

caruso is here to stay imo, for good. top 5 in xrapm this guy deliver nba beating quality minutes and the fact he's on the tail end of his career just make it logical his contract is based on use-value.

nobody is paying to get caruso what caruso delivers to the thunder.

otoh, players like hartenstein, dort and isaiah joe have deals specifically designed to maximize flexibility and trade value (even team options).

You believe that 30 year old Caruso only being able to play in 54 games, which was above his career average games per season, doesn't point to potential serious problems for 32 year old Caruso in terms of health and maintaining performance?

i don't think that's relevant, the commitment is already made. and if thunder gets a ring this season is because caruso put it on that denver series.

what i know about modern physiology on the age thing is that different athletes age differently. some high level athletes are washed up at 33, others are still elite athletes close to their primes at 37. also, what i know from modern physiology is that the drop off is steep and sudden so yeah it's tough to establish long term plan.

but caruso is 31, still young, didn't get heavy mileage until 25 and still an elite athlete.

also i believe you forgot to add his g league games and dnps by coach decision in 17/18 and 18/19 to your calcs, or you could take those seasons out at all. since 19-20 he's averaged 60 games/regular season.

It’s relevant . Availability is an ability . Contract is signed but he can be traded away in future still.

[Devilanche]

The issue I have with this is that the potential cost could be heavy. The addition would have to be temporary or it will compromise our ability to retain what we already have in the near future. I already see the Caruso addition/extension as a replacement for Dort or Wallace when they come up for extensions. I don’t see how we keep Hartenstein beyond his current deal and it’s conceivable that we don’t even pick up his third-year option.

I see Caruso as a temporary player and the first one out the door if there is a cap crunch and they have to move someone. Caruso will be 32 going into the '26-'27 season, when a potential cap crunch would arrive, and you think they should keep him over the significantly younger Dort and Cason?

I made no statement of preference. Caruso was signed to a 4-year extension that won’t even begin until this summer. That’s a long-term commitment that will impact future decisions.

Is that a statement or a prediction of what will happen ?

[bbms]

You believe that 30 year old Caruso only being able to play in 54 games, which was above his career average games per season, doesn't point to potential serious problems for 32 year old Caruso in terms of health and maintaining performance?

i don't think that's relevant, the commitment is already made. and if thunder gets a ring this season is because caruso put it on that denver series.

what i know about modern physiology on the age thing is that different athletes age differently. some high level athletes are washed up at 33, others are still elite athletes close to their primes at 37. also, what i know from modern physiology is that the drop off is steep and sudden so yeah it's tough to establish long term plan.

but caruso is 31, still young, didn't get heavy mileage until 25 and still an elite athlete.

also i believe you forgot to add his g league games and dnps by coach decision in 17/18 and 18/19 to your calcs, or you could take those seasons out at all. since 19-20 he's averaged 60 games/regular season.

It’s relevant . Availability is an ability . Contract is signed but he can be traded away in future still.

return value is never going to match his delivery unless a team thinks really need a caruso and actively try to acquire him. different from players like dort and hartenstein that if you shop them on the market, there'll probably be a line of bidders

if the thunder ever need to dump him, that's another story.

the thunder commited to caruso, with all the ifs, honestly it has paid off and i trust their judgement with that extension.

they earned the trust, both fo and caruso.

[Clav]

i'm hyped on topic not on his expected performance in 25-26. i'm high on his potential delivery from 2026-27 and 2027-28 on a rookie deal after big contracts are handed.

even if mitchell is a better player now (i doubt it, btw) the situation is not comparable at all when you factor everything together (age, long term projection, contract situation, timeline of thunder's payroll).

topic is a player you hope can put you some day in that situation james harden put the thunder in 2012 - do you max him? do you cash on him?

he's got that kind of upside.

Me too! Can't wait to see him chop it up in SL. Personally I think he had a big career ahead. He's very deft with his initiation and has a decent looking shot.

[Xatticus]

I see Caruso as a temporary player and the first one out the door if there is a cap crunch and they have to move someone. Caruso will be 32 going into the '26-'27 season, when a potential cap crunch would arrive, and you think they should keep him over the significantly younger Dort and Cason?

I made no statement of preference. Caruso was signed to a 4-year extension that won’t even begin until this summer. That’s a long-term commitment that will impact future decisions.

Is that a statement or a prediction of what will happen ?

It's neither, because I don't know what will happen and because I doubt those decisions have been made yet, but I don't see any way that Caruso's contract can co-exist with both of those extensions. I'm not sure we can manage to keep more than one of them.

The extensions for Holmgren and Williams won't be cheap and they will begin a year from now, which will be the final (club option) year of Dort's current deal. Wallace gets his extension the year after that. We probably have one year before we are forced to make some tough decisions.

Our issues won't be about roster space. The luxury tax is going to be the issue. Consolidation trades alleviate the former, but they exacerbate the latter.