Shams: New York Knicks Fire Head Coach Tom Thibodeau

[ArksNetsSince99]

Without that horrible ending the Knicks could be now preparing for the Finals.

Are you actually suggesting that other than those 5-6 minutes, the Knicks were the better team in the series?

What I'm suggesting is that going back to MSG for G7, everything would have been possible for the Knicks. But you are right, Thibs was outcoached most of the series and that's why he had to go.

That’s complete BS

Nembhard clamped Brunson so hard it made Brunson look and play like Trae light and that’s actually a compliment

[Johnny Bball]

The Knicks had the better team on paper and still lost. This one is on Thibs and that's why he is now fired.

Both teams are pretty even to be honest. Losing that OT game is what killed the Knicks. That loss was on the players.

It’s on Thibs as well. Why would you take out the lineup that gave you a 17 point lead and put in Brunson, who had 5 fouls at the time, at the 5 min mark in the 4th quarter? He was getting attacked the entire time.

whne someone doesn't understand their entire argument is based on the benefit of hindsight.

[Yoshun]

I don't really feel either way about this but I have to say, they knew who he was when they hired him. He's the same coach he's always been. To fire him because he has short rotations, etc... ; his flaws shouldn't have been a surprise.

Eh, the team was in a different place then. Coaches aren’t just fired for their flaws, they’re fired, and hired, cause they fit the timeline of where the franchise is at that moment.

Team is now past the building stage and full steam ahead on contending, which requires a reevaluation of what you need from the coach.

I guess, but they were trying to compete this year too; otherwise why go all out for Bridges and Towns?

It just seems like an odd move at this point.

I would add "meh" as a third poll option.

[JujitsuFlip]

i mean lets be real the drop off in talent from their top 7 players is insane, that's on leon rose.

they wouldn't have beaten detroit or boston playing 10 players regularly. i feel like there were thib's teams in the past where he shoudl have trusted the young talent more but this aint it. cam payne, landry shamet, delon wright, these guys should be garbage minute players at this point, not rotational.

i think thibs has his flaws but i don't think the pacers loss is on him and the knicks roster is what it is.

wings like hart, bridges, anunoby are young enough and athletic enough to play heavy minutes.

No one is saying go 10 deep vs the Pistons or Celtics... There are 82 other games.

If Wright, Shamet, and Precious are such butt cheeks then why for the final 2 or 3 games of Thibs Knicks coaching tenure is he giving them rotation minutes?

To me, he looked worse playing 10 guys at the end. If he didn't trust those dudes or care to develop their roles, why play them now? It was honestly a worse look than just sticking with his top 7.

Rest on your laurels, Thibs.

shamet averaged 15.7 mpg during hte regular season
precious averaged 20.7 mpg during the regular season (he only played a couple mpg in the playoffs)
payne averaged 15 mpg during the regular seasion... how many more minutes was he supposed to play them in hte regular season?

unless you have an insane bench everyones bench shortens in the playoffs because those looks that were open in the regular season are closed out on and they aren't open anymore and flawed players are exposed.

i just find it highly unlikely the knicks will improve and i don't think this was a case of him having better options but dolan is a trash owner and i know the knicks probably feel like their window is short and didn't have confidence but i woudl be shocked to see them make the finals before they break this team up. they clearly were a team that played together well and played like a team.

But Thibs extended his rotation in the ECF. Why? That's not his bread and butter. If he can go 10 deep in the most critical part of the season, he coulda did it for the whole season...

I'm not even going to look at Payne, since he was completely removed from the rotation in the most crucial final part of the season.

Shamet did play 15 MPG in the regular season he played 21.9 MPG in the 15 game stretch that Brunson missed. Then in the other 34 games, guy is at 12.75 MPG, so a bit deceptive. 4.8 mpg in round 1, 3.7 mpg in round 2, and 13.3 mpg in the ECF.

Wright played 20.4 mpg while Brunson was out in 9 games, in the other 4 games he got in, 4.3 MPG. Guy was an afterthought. Zero minutes in round 1, played 3 total minutes in round 2, and 11 MPG in the final 4 games of the ECF.

Precious played 20.5 mpg but he was the main back-up big before Robinson re-joined the team February 28th. Didn't play in the 1st round, 4.8 mpg in the 2nd round, and then 3.3 mpg in the final 3 games of the ECF as the 10th man, deepest rotation for Thibs all season.

Deuce pretty consistent, 24.9 mpg in the regular season, played every playoff game, 18 mpg in the ECF and playoffs as a whole.

Idk who ya wanna call a bench guy out of Hart and Robinson since they flip flopped mid ECF.

[Capn'O]

Its the circle of Thibodeau. He gets a mediocre team to overachieve. Fanbase and front office are convinced their mediocre players are really stars if they just had a more player friendly coach. Thibs gets fired. Team slides back to mediocrity or worse.

Fred Hoiberg is available. I wonder if the Knicks go that route.

It could be Hoiberg... or Phil after Collins. You've seen both sides of this.

The Knicks don’t have Michael Jeffrey Jordan. A good many coaches could’ve won titles with that guy, and potentially even Collins himself.

People are trying to draw these parallels (Jackson, Kerr), but I can’t squint and see the path for this significant remaining juice and untapped potential with this Knicks group.

There is some, don’t get me wrong…but I definitely get the feeling like some people’s hopes are way too high.

My guess is they'll hire Johnny Bryant if Phoenix doesn't. It's a big risk but I support it. Thibs took us as far as he could.

[Capn'O]

I don't really feel either way about this but I have to say, they knew who he was when they hired him. He's the same coach he's always been. To fire him because he has short rotations, etc... ; his flaws shouldn't have been a surprise.

Eh, the team was in a different place then. Coaches aren’t just fired for their flaws, they’re fired, and hired, cause they fit the timeline of where the franchise is at that moment.

Team is now past the building stage and full steam ahead on contending, which requires a reevaluation of what you need from the coach.

I guess, but they were trying to compete this year too; otherwise why go all out for Bridges and Towns?

It just seems like an odd move at this point.

I would add "meh" as a third poll option.

Right but their roster didn't resemble anything like this when they hired him. He nursed the team back to respectability. Then they brought in some guys that didn't really fit him and gave him a season to cook.

So we hired him for his strengths, which were desperately needed, years before firing him for his flaws. Nobody wanted to coach here then. Thanks to him, everyone will.

[JujitsuFlip]

You’re joking right?

Dolan makes the final decisions in NY and he's always wanted to hire Calipari.

John Calipari would he an interesting add for viewership. I would watch.

He's a terrible X and O coach though.

[knicksfan974]

Underachieved? Not a single thing person had them making it that far.

On paper the Knicks had a stronger roster than the Pacers. That ECF series loss is on Thibs, and obviously the Knicks FO agrees.

Pacers have a team , Knicks have a poo poo platter on paper

Still only two wins away from the NBA Finals, even when Thibs getting completely outcoached throughout the series. With better coaching there is no limit how far this team can go.

[Yoshun]

Eh, the team was in a different place then. Coaches aren’t just fired for their flaws, they’re fired, and hired, cause they fit the timeline of where the franchise is at that moment.

Team is now past the building stage and full steam ahead on contending, which requires a reevaluation of what you need from the coach.

I guess, but they were trying to compete this year too; otherwise why go all out for Bridges and Towns?

It just seems like an odd move at this point.

I would add "meh" as a third poll option.

Right but their roster didn't resemble anything like this when they hired him. He nursed the team back to respectability. Then they brought in some guys that didn't really fit him and gave him a season to cook.

So we hired him for his strengths, which were desperately needed, years before firing him for his flaws. Nobody wanted to coach here then. Thanks to him, everyone will.

Oh I agree with a good part of that, but why wait? Why not cut him loose after putting the roster together? I mean, they finally give the guy a roster he can actually win with, he helps them get to game 6 of the ECF, then they let him go? I'm not necessarily saying it's a bad move, just kinda "meh."

I guess in the end it doesn't really matter. The Knicks would have been looking for a better coach either way.

[ArksNetsSince99]

On paper the Knicks had a stronger roster than the Pacers. That ECF series loss is on Thibs, and obviously the Knicks FO agrees.

Pacers have a team , Knicks have a poo poo platter on paper

Still only two wins away from the NBA Finals, even when Thibs getting completely outcoached throughout the series. With better coaching there is no limit where this team can go.

The team overachieved like all Thibs teams did in the past

Without Thibs is downhill road now , there is no limits how far it’s gonna drop

[Ssj16]

Pretty sure Jokic got Malone fired. Dumb decision. They are now a treadmill team.

Knicks, especially Brunson, has been vocal how much they support Thibs. This is management being idiots. And now will be a treadmill team. Like the Nuggets.

This doesn't even make any sense. Malone lost the locker room which was clear as day.

This is like saying Lakers should have kept Darvin Ham because he got the Lakers to a conference finals.

People also forget about the firing of David Blatt after he got them to 1 finals and look how that worked out for Cleveland.

One thing that is true about Thibs until proven otherwise, his players get rundown or his teams flame out in the playoffs.

Definitely risky for NYC but if they do their due diligence, there are definitely upgrades out there.

Lakers didn't fire him weeks before the playoffs though. Moving on is one thing, but the timing was off with that firing. No way you can convince me he was not run out. Jokic definitely signed off on it.

I agree Jokic signed off but that doesn't make it a treadmill team. I think Malone has ran his course on that Denver team the way it ended and I think Malone is a solid coach but I by no means think he's an upper echelon coach, especially when I factor his inability to develop young players.

All this being said, time will tell if the Knicks made the right move or not but history shows that Thibs wasn't getting them to the promise land.

[garrick]

I don't know if there's a coach available that's an improvement over THibs to be honest.

There's Vogel, Mike Malone, Bud, Jenkins as proven coaches who are not necessarily an improvement over Thibs then there's a bunch of unproven coaches which you are going to take a huge risk on as unproven commodities.

[jkvonny]

Take notes from the Bucks - you can fire a good coach in hopes of something better, and it's totally possible it does get better. But it's also super possible it gets colossally **** worse. Thankfully for Knicks fans, unlike the Bucks organization I don't think the current Knicks organization is ran by dudes who sniff paint.

The Knicks FO have been sniffing paint for majority of the past 2 decades.


Today's event is just another feather in their cap.

[Flopper]

The guy is literally his own worst enemy. Overachieves with flawed roster and then gets fired by management that's high on its own supply.

[D.Brasco]

Knicks back to irrelevancy moving forward. It was fun lol

Day 1 of the next 25 year rebuild starts now.

[bronxknicksfan1]

Both teams are pretty even to be honest. Losing that OT game is what killed the Knicks. That loss was on the players.

It’s on Thibs as well. Why would you take out the lineup that gave you a 17 point lead and put in Brunson, who had 5 fouls at the time, at the 5 min mark in the 4th quarter? He was getting attacked the entire time.

whne someone doesn't understand their entire argument is based on the benefit of hindsight.

A lot of us were questioning the decision at the time. Thibs went back to his starting lineup that had been getting demolished earlier in the game. A lineup he refused to adjust from.

Read on Twitter

[jkvonny]

I wonder if the players were just tired of playing for him- not just physically, but mentally too. The guy seems incapable of smiling. It wears on you after a while to be around a person like that. They need a coach that brings some joy to the court.

Mike D'Antoni smiles a lot.

Maybe the Knicks should rehire Coach Pringles!

[Hello Brooklyn]

I'm not the biggest Thibs fan but are we really supposed to believe a different coach would do better?

The Knicks should not have beaten the Celtics. You could argue that they should have beaten the Pacers. But the Knicks choking away Game 1 was not Thibs fault at all. Thats on the players.

And if they win Game 1, there is a very good chance they get to a Game 7 in MSG.

The front office needs someone to blame. Bottom line: Bridges trade was an abject failure. You don't give up five first round picks for a role player which was obvious at the time.

Would have been better off keeping their flexibility for Giannis or whatever other high level star they could leverage picks for. Now they are stuck.

[Diop]

there was a public spat between players and Thibs regarding minutes played. thats always a bad sign and you can imagine the players calling out fatigue as a factor in their loss. i heard Blake Griffin on a podcast midway through the year saying Knicks wouldn't be able to make it to the finals as fatigue will catch up. thats Thibs, but helps make it a easier decision IMO.

for me, i thought Carlisle outcoached Thibs as well. Once Indiana started concentrating hard on Brunson, it felt like there wasn't much of a plan B for Knicks.
Knicks have committed a ton to this roster, if I don't want to blow it up, i try a different coach first.

[Capn'O]

I guess, but they were trying to compete this year too; otherwise why go all out for Bridges and Towns?

It just seems like an odd move at this point.

I would add "meh" as a third poll option.

Right but their roster didn't resemble anything like this when they hired him. He nursed the team back to respectability. Then they brought in some guys that didn't really fit him and gave him a season to cook.

So we hired him for his strengths, which were desperately needed, years before firing him for his flaws. Nobody wanted to coach here then. Thanks to him, everyone will.

Oh I agree with a good part of that, but why wait? Why not cut him loose after putting the roster together? I mean, they finally give the guy a roster he can actually win with, he helps them get to game 6 of the ECF, then they let him go? I'm not necessarily saying it's a bad move, just kinda "meh."

I guess in the end it doesn't really matter. The Knicks would have been looking for a better coach either way.

I think they wanted to give him a shot with it and a nice retirement package. Friendship only gets you so far though

I felt similarly at the beginning of the season. Like they should have cut him loose when they traded for KAT.