Breaking: Tom Fired

[TheGreenArrow]

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[Jeff Van Gully]

And Kolek has to be in the mix. Him and Deuce could be a second unit backcourt.

Not sure what they plan for Dadiet, but the one I wouldn't sleep on is McCullar. If his body is sound the guy could be a monster defensively and maybe capable offensively.

if the next coach expands the rotation to 10, kolek is probably in there like swimwear.

i watched him through his college career and i'm ASHAMED of how much video i watched leading up to the draft. i lost my **** when we picked him. also really liked the defensive improvement i saw when he got back in. we'll need facilitation in the second unit and he could absolutely bring that.

Kolek stepping into the Payne minutes seems like an easy decision. You save $3mm in veteran minimum salary and hopefully keep Delon Wright as your third string. Payne's salary slot can go to Shamet on a full season deal. With those moves, the roster would be:

C: Mitch / Hukporti
PF: KAT / Hart
SF: OG / Shamet / Dadiet
SG: Bridges / Deuce
PG: Brunson / Kolek / Wright

That's $202mm give or take, and roughly $6mm under the second apron.

yeah. i believe part of the reason payne was there was to let him see what a backup looks like, which i imagine is important.

and trying to keep it back on track to the thibs firing and not derail into a kolek lovefest, next coach should probably feel confident enough to play him there now. as big a kolek fan as i am, i thought he had a ways to go after those first couple spurts he had. there's a difference between adjusting to pro speed and a continuation of the concerns i had about him at marquette. so watching him get embarrassed a few times i was kinda hoping they'd pull him in, take him back to the lab, and bring him back out when ready. i think thibs did that with hukporti and he also came back looking a lot better. i think if he didn't get hurt, he was on-track for backup C minutes. but thibs kinda had to keep KAT and mitch covering those.

[aq_ua]

Offer Erik Spoelstra $50 million per year to coach.

He was just signed to an 8 year deal last year. It's not up to him.

[BKlutch]

I think 100% Hukporti is going to be a rotation player next season.

Then you've decided we won't have Malone.

i know he won a title, but he got canned BEFORE the playoffs because he's pretty much a **** thibs.

having a title is an accomplishment i'd never minimize or take away from a coach. even doc rivers. but at least they let thibs get a crack at the postseason. denver was like, "yo. we can't do this." Jenkins getting the same treatment gives me pause too. but i was never a big fan of his.

i loved thibs and would have serious concerns about malone, if that makes sense.

(because i admit i don't have that sentiment all the way fleshed out. still processing.)

This may be a bit tangential, but I'm really enjoying how folks are willing to look at this from both sides, with honest discussion and analysis of an issue nobody could possibly predict the outcome of. There is a distinct lack of "teams" that used to cause folks here to take sides, retrenching and arguing their point to the death (or near death) of other posters.

I like coaches who've won it all, but I also know that having the right team that peaked at the right time can make a good coach seem great. And some great coaches have never won it all.

We've all put Thibs under a microscope for so long we know every wart and pimple on his coaching body, but we really couldn't possibly have the same closeup view of any of the candidates. The most encouraging factor in this is that Leon made a move at the time he did and (apparently) for the reasons we've all kind of assumed. This means his mindset is in the right place to choose someone who brings the qualifications to lead the team in a way Thibs couldn't. Maybe that's why all the Jokes about Malone.

For anyone who wants to know more about Johnnie Bryant, and hasn't watched the videos of him posted earlier in this thread, the first one is a great look at some very advanced offensive concepts while at the same time showing how he gets what a good defense is. Kenny's job will be harder if he leaves Cleveland.

[HEZI]

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Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I thought they had a plan but if they really have no idea who the next coach will be and are still searching then that’s not a good sign

This makes me feel less good about the situation, but maybe that's how it always is. I don't know.

I thought this FO operated with a solid plan and they already had someone lined up.

Maybe they do, and the above is eyewash for the media, in that they ALREADY conducted the search, but don't want to make it seem like they were investigating the next coach while Thibs was still coach.

Or, they started looking some, but in fact DON'T have a coach lined up, but fired Thibs with expediency to be able to have more choices. They have a list of candidates they would be happy with, say narrowed down to 5, and now they get to see if any of those are willing to coach the Knicks.

I would guess the last sentence I typed out is how it generally goes for teams.

Based on rumors, Udoka and Kidd are the under contract coaches who are probably the unlikely but home run picks to this FO, Jay Wright and Hurley MAYBE on the wish list, Johnny Bryant and a couple of other assistant coaches.

Spoelestra would be awesome, if we are talking about coaches on another team.

I just hope they get who they want and aren’t left just settling for someone

[The KnicksFix]

Still celebrating.

Same bro, same

[Fury]

Jay would be fun

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That’s crazy. Dunno how we’d be able to get Udoka, but if that’s possible, he’s gotta be #1 by a huge margin

He would be my first choice too. He does have some Thibs in him but like a more modern version.

[The KnicksFix]

Thibs just called another iso Brunson followed by drop coverage on d, we just gave up another 3

[Knicksfan1992]

I love Udoka but that's because I liked Thibs

The people here who disliked Thibs but want Udoka will be in for a wild surprise IMO.

Maybe he's a little bit more modern and less resistant to change but, he's cut from a very similar cloth to Thibs and his offensive coaching abilities are just as much in question.

I think my official Top 5 from the names i've seen so far are:

1. Jay Wright
2. Ime Udoka
3. Dan Hurley
4. Johnnie Bryant
5. Mike Malone

just curious. why isn't bryant higher for you? do you think he'd be more anti-thibs?

as for the bold, man. i like thibs and thought some of udoka's minutes distributions last season were war crimes. he had actual injured guys doing 42, 43 at times. the averages were better than thibs, for sure. but he had the same kind of games he tried to win at all costs.

not trying to be controversial. jalen green might have needed it. he was going in the wrong direction and has seemed to turn a corner.

but yeah, if you want minutes balance, bryant might be your guy coming from what we saw in cleveland.

So judging by what they've put out so far either through the media or Leon Rose's statement, the standard for the coach needs to be "championship pedigree".

Based on what they've told me they are looking for, I can't possibly have Johnnie Bryant higher on my list logically. Even if I think he could be a good head coach and he gets rave reviews around the league. It's not a risk I think the Knicks should be taking at this stage of roster building. If they had fired Thibs two years ago, he may have been higher on my list for instance.

Point being, me and everyone else here have no idea how Johnnie Bryant is going to handle anything as a HC. We don't know what adjustments he would have made in a series against Indiana. We have a vague idea of his philosophy towards hoops and it seems great! That doesn't tell me how he's going to handle press conferences, minutes distributions, players complaining in the media or behind closed doors, mid series playoff adjustments, etc.

Also, the minutes distribution doesn't bother me nearly as much as other people. I think how you play those minutes would be more of my concern... Are you constantly spamming the same lineups? Are you experimenting at least a little bit more in the regular season? That's where Udoka separates himself a bit from Thibs. Even though he has Thibs tendencies with his minutes, he made a lot of rotation changes throughout the season to find the right combos. I think his offensive talent level let him down a bit more in the playoffs than anything he did coaching wise IMO but I think it's fair to criticize him for that Warriors series. They should have won that IMO.

Jay Wright, to me, has the personality, the X's and O's, relationship building abilities and resume to thrive in NY. Yes, we don't know how he'll handle the grind of an NBA regular season or dealing with real adults. A fair criticism in a job where you aren't the dictator anymore like you are in college. But he's worked with Olympic teams in the past. He obviously has relationships with guys in the building and I don't think he'd take the job if he wasn't ready for the grind...

[Phish Tank]

Heard some Nets fans and national media lovers whining about the Knicks hiring another coach.... 7 coaches in 10 years.... all that blah blah blah blah.

Well guess what:

Nets Coaches since 2010-11:

Avery Johnson
PJ Carlesimo (Interim)
Jason Kidd
Lionel Hollins
Tony Brown (Interim)
Kenny Atkinson
Jacque Vaughn (Interim)
Steve Nash
Jacque Vaughn
Kevin Ollie (Interim)
Jordi Fernandez

Knicks Coaches since 2010-11

Mike D'Antoni
MIke Woodson
Derek Fisher
Kurt Rambis (Interim)
Jeff Hornacek
David Fizdale
Mike Miller (Interim)
Tom Thibodeau

GFY Nets Fans

[KnicksGadfly]

So we keep running it back with the same coach where we know we won’t win a ring?
The goal is to win a ring man. Come on.

That was literally one of the worst playoff runs I've ever seen. We played terribly all postseason. It was a miracle we even got out of the first round. Thibs is garbage.

Brother, outside of Thibs the Knicks have ONE PLAYOFF SERIES VICTORY SINCE 2000. My Bulls have just as many.

You literally haven't seen a playoff run since 1999/2000, what the hell are you guys talking about? There's been NO PLAYOFF RUNS in either of our franchise's history since the **** 1990s. The Bulls fanbase were just as excited as you are and they deserve their decade of bull basketball.

Hmm I feel like this is probably going past your logical argument of "you could always hire someone worse than Thibs" and now going into a more emotional argument where you're hoping teams fail because they let Thibs go.

I think there are a few things to debate here:
1. Is Thibs a championship coach? I'd say no.

2. Did Thibs play a role in the Bulls and Wolves' next coaches' inability to do well? I'd argue yes. In Chicago, he got DRose hurt and burned out his other players. In Minnesota, he couldn't handle the player relationships and he allowed Jimmy Butler to basically destroy his culture. Ironically, in New York, he got DRose hurt again later down the road. Just saying that, because we can't just make an argument that "Oh the Bulls and Wolves fired Thibs and went to shyt..." They were partially on their way to shyt because of Thibs back then, just as Thibs was responsible for the successes.

3. Did he do that here? I don't think so. He's leaving behind a good legacy. We still have to hire the right guy, though. However, I do think there is also risk in keeping Thibs, just as there is risk in letting Thibs go. Another season of Mikal losing value is unacceptable, especially with the investment made and a possible extension. Another season of KAT and Brunson not being able to play together is unacceptable. A postseason where the team gives up several games because they didn't try hard, and the players hold multiple meetings and still can't fix it...red flags. But yea, on the whole, right now, these are small problems that have the potential to become really big ones if they continue. The FO needs to be aware of it and make sure the next coach they hire can address these things. But it goes back to question 1 in the end.

4. I see a lot of parallels to some other moves the Knicks made recently. We've moved some good players over the years and there's always been a risk those moves could backfire. But similarly to this, the Knicks have had to move on and make a tough decision, to pursue a championship-level core.

[TheGreenArrow]

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[Knicksfan1992]

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And this is why Mike Malone is not really being considered

[stuporman]

I was told that Rose would already have someone ready to step in if he was going to fire Thibs but now there is a long list of candidates and an extensive search going to happen?

Once again the media is as clueless as the people who believe them... I'd say you people should be ashamed of yourselves but I've seen what you post...you have no shame.

[aq_ua]

if the next coach expands the rotation to 10, kolek is probably in there like swimwear.

i watched him through his college career and i'm ASHAMED of how much video i watched leading up to the draft. i lost my **** when we picked him. also really liked the defensive improvement i saw when he got back in. we'll need facilitation in the second unit and he could absolutely bring that.

Kolek stepping into the Payne minutes seems like an easy decision. You save $3mm in veteran minimum salary and hopefully keep Delon Wright as your third string. Payne's salary slot can go to Shamet on a full season deal. With those moves, the roster would be:

C: Mitch / Hukporti
PF: KAT / Hart
SF: OG / Shamet / Dadiet
SG: Bridges / Deuce
PG: Brunson / Kolek / Wright

That's $202mm give or take, and roughly $6mm under the second apron.

yeah. i believe part of the reason payne was there was to let him see what a backup looks like, which i imagine is important.

and trying to keep it back on track to the thibs firing and not derail into a kolek lovefest, next coach should probably feel confident enough to play him there now. as big a kolek fan as i am, i thought he had a ways to go after those first couple spurts he had. there's a difference between adjusting to pro speed and a continuation of the concerns i had about him at marquette. so watching him get embarrassed a few times i was kinda hoping they'd pull him in, take him back to the lab, and bring him back out when ready. i think thibs did that with hukporti and he also came back looking a lot better. i think if he didn't get hurt, he was on-track for backup C minutes. but thibs kinda had to keep KAT and mitch covering those.

I agree - from a Thibs perspective, the rookies/sophomores were probably inevitably headed to salary filler in a trade land. I raised this in the trade thread, but in this NBA CBA environment, it's so critical that players on cheap (i.e. rookie) contracts contribute significantly in the rotation. It's now financially impossible to build a team entirely with veteran contracts, at least have decent quality 1 through 12. If there was one major question for me going into next year with Thibs, it would be how we were going to cure the bench depth issue without Thibs trusting a couple of young players to step up.

[Knicksfan1992]

Heard some Nets fans and national media lovers whining about the Knicks hiring another coach.... 7 coaches in 10 years.... all that blah blah blah blah.

Well guess what:

Nets Coaches since 2010-11:

Avery Johnson
PJ Carlesimo (Interim)
Jason Kidd
Lionel Hollins
Tony Brown (Interim)
Kenny Atkinson
Jacque Vaughn (Interim)
Steve Nash
Jacque Vaughn
Kevin Ollie (Interim)
Jordi Fernandez

Knicks Coaches since 2010-11

Mike D'Antoni
MIke Woodson
Derek Fisher
Kurt Rambis (Interim)
Jeff Hornacek
David Fizdale
Mike Miller (Interim)
Tom Thibodeau

GFY Nets Fans

Thibs was like the 4th longest tenured HC at the time of his firing. Anybody arguing or insinuating that he didn't get a fair shot at this or have enough time is not arguing in good faith.

[TheGreenArrow]

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[DOT]

If you want to go for the true anti-Thibs, that'd be Taylor Jenkins.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Then you've decided we won't have Malone.

i know he won a title, but he got canned BEFORE the playoffs because he's pretty much a **** thibs.

having a title is an accomplishment i'd never minimize or take away from a coach. even doc rivers. but at least they let thibs get a crack at the postseason. denver was like, "yo. we can't do this." Jenkins getting the same treatment gives me pause too. but i was never a big fan of his.

i loved thibs and would have serious concerns about malone, if that makes sense.

(because i admit i don't have that sentiment all the way fleshed out. still processing.)

This may be a bit tangential, but I'm really enjoying how folks are willing to look at this from both sides, with honest discussion and analysis of an issue nobody could possibly predict the outcome of. There is a distinct lack of "teams" that used to cause folks here to take sides, retrenching and arguing their point to the death (or near death) of other posters.

I like coaches who've won it all, but I also know that having the right team that peaked at the right time can make a good coach seem great. And some great coaches have never won it all.

We've all put Thibs under a microscope for so long we know every wart and pimple on his coaching body, but we really couldn't possibly have the same closeup view of any of the candidates. The most encouraging factor in this is that Leon made a move at the time he did and (apparently) for the reasons we've all kind of assumed. This means his mindset is in the right place to choose someone who brings the qualifications to lead the team in a way Thibs couldn't. Maybe that's why all the Jokes about Malone.

For anyone who wants to know more about Johnnie Bryant, and hasn't watched the videos of him posted earlier in this thread, the first one is a great look at some very advanced offensive concepts while at the same time showing how he gets what a good defense is. Kenny's job will be harder if he leaves Cleveland.

about the bold. thank you. that means a lot. the mod team wants the forum to look and feel more like that. and it's just how i'm cut personally. i don't look at many things in life in absolutes. and i genuinely try to understand differing points of view. i think polarization is harmful to communities. and for me, it's easier to talk ball knowing folks are going to be measured and not completely agenda driven. nation of thibslam was a tongue-in-cheek joke for me that i never wanted anyone to feel like was trolling or confrontational. just kind of owning my unpopular support in a peaceful/respectful way. i think posting like that is why i was scouted to join the mod team, so i try to kind of model the behavior i want to see.

(we're all human and fallible. i know i've fallen short and taken bait at times. but i also feel confident that i come to this place every day trying to respect the whole. so, again, that means a lot and i think the rest of the mod team appreciates it too.)

i grieve thibs, but i'm a knicks fan. i'm just hoping the next coach is good and good for the team so we can keep moving forward and get this ring before too many more of us die. bryant excites me now that thibs is gone because i assume he would bring an ideal balance.

[Jeff Van Gully]

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that's real talk, GA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

we put damn near 100% of that on thibs the whole time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

he had to speak to the game AND state of the union!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

wasn't the fairest spot to be in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i respected how he handled the hot seat night in and night out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

he wasn't an orge or orc or whatever behind the mic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

how did i do, GA?