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Bears 12.0

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Re: Bears 12.0 

Post#161 » by nomorezorro » Wed Jun 4, 2025 7:34 pm

fleet wrote:IMO he has indicated that he can lead a team. That’s a big one that’s not even universal to “starters”


what on earth could you possibly be basing this on
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Re: Bears 12.0 

Post#162 » by nomorezorro » Wed Jun 4, 2025 7:36 pm

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these are tyson bagent's career passing stats.
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Re: Bears 12.0 

Post#163 » by Hold That » Wed Jun 4, 2025 7:44 pm

dougthonus wrote:
_txchilibowl_ wrote:
Dresden wrote:
Why should they play someone at the most important position who is worse than someone else they have on the team?



Because one is the #1 pick in the draft, franchise QB talent and the other is........Case Keenum.

You have to let Caleb grow in to the position and that's not happening from the bench.


If Caleb can't beat out Case Keenum and Tyson Bagent, then does it matter that he was the #1 pick in the draft?

It feels awfully contradictory to me to think that this guy can be a meaningful NFL player and at the same time you are also too scared to let him compete against another young QB that's never played meaningful time in the NFL, and a career backup QB that's way past his prime and near retirement.

If Bagent is the next Brock Purdy and Caleb is just Trey Lance then you are sure as hell better off finding that out then letting Bagent go and keeping Caleb around
nomorezorro wrote:Image

these are tyson bagent's career passing stats.
because you drafted him high. I'm not saying that is the case, but no one should be scared about letting these guys really compete.

Caleb should kick everyone's butt in this competition.


If Baegent was Brock Purdy he’s going to show that when he’s getting 2nd and 3rd team reps. When he’s not making any mistakes with that group is when coaches often take notice and toss him in there with the 1st unit for a snap or two and usually noise begins internally.

Baegent has been here for 3-4 years now. He’s not Purdy hell he’s not even a Kenny Pickett.
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Re: Bears 12.0 

Post#164 » by molepharmer » Wed Jun 4, 2025 7:55 pm

Bears media can be so terrible during the pressers. They've asked Brisker about 30 straight questions for ~10min regarding his concussion; P Finley is especially annoying.
TGibson (1/28/17); "..."a 4 or 5 on a scale of 1 to 10 for drama"...What's the worst? "...yelling matches with Thibs, everybody is just going crazy and I'm just sitting there...like, 'Don't call my name please..."
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Re: Bears 12.0 

Post#165 » by dougthonus » Wed Jun 4, 2025 8:02 pm

Hold That wrote:If Baegent was Brock Purdy he’s going to show that when he’s getting 2nd and 3rd team reps. When he’s not making any mistakes with that group is when coaches often take notice and toss him in there with the 1st unit for a snap or two and usually noise begins internally.

Baegent has been here for 3-4 years now. He’s not Purdy hell he’s not even a Kenny Pickett.


1: I also don't think he's Brock Purdy
2: He's been here two years, not 3-4, he's probably got less reps than Williams
3: Why should I be excited about Caleb if he can't beat out guys on merit that are barely hanging on in the league
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Re: Bears 12.0 

Post#166 » by nomorezorro » Wed Jun 4, 2025 8:14 pm

molepharmer wrote:Bears media can be so terrible during the pressers. They've asked Brisker about 30 straight questions for ~10min regarding his concussion; P Finley is especially annoying.


their job is to get information and quotes for the articles they're writing in the limited window they have access to the players, not to make the press conference a good entertainment product for people watching a livestream.
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Re: Bears 12.0 

Post#167 » by Hold That » Wed Jun 4, 2025 8:17 pm

dougthonus wrote:
Hold That wrote:If Baegent was Brock Purdy he’s going to show that when he’s getting 2nd and 3rd team reps. When he’s not making any mistakes with that group is when coaches often take notice and toss him in there with the 1st unit for a snap or two and usually noise begins internally.

Baegent has been here for 3-4 years now. He’s not Purdy hell he’s not even a Kenny Pickett.


1: I also don't think he's Brock Purdy
2: But he's been here two years, not 3-4, he's probably got less reps than Williams
3: Why should I be excited about Caleb if he beat out guys on merit that are barely hanging on in the league

Nobody is telling you to be excited. It’s ok to have a wait and see approach.

Even in Baegents two years he’s shown he’s nothing more than a back up at best. There’s absolutely nothing special about his game that tells you he should even be in a competition with Caleb for a starting spot.

Yes Caleb is entitled to start as the #1 pick(that comes with 30+mil guaranteed). And no they aren’t going to throw him in a QB competition with a career journey man in Keenum who’s never proven he can be a starter for 17 games in any season of his career. Not with Baegent who has a career 3 TDs and 6 INTs in the few reps he has gotten.

Honestly what sense would that make after Caleb just threw for 3500 20TDs and 6INTs despite a coaching carousel happening mid season?
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Re: Bears 12.0 

Post#168 » by dougthonus » Wed Jun 4, 2025 8:20 pm

Hold That wrote:Nobody is telling you to be excited. It’s ok to have a wait and see approach.

Even in Baegents two years he’s shown he’s nothing more than a back up at best. There’s absolutely nothing special about his game that tells you he should even be in a competition with Caleb for a starting spot.

Yes Caleb is entitled to start as the #1 pick. And no they aren’t going to throw him in a QB competition with a career journey man in Keenum who’s never proven he can be a starter for 17 games in any season of his career. Not with Baegent who has a career 3 TDs and 6 INTs in the few reps he has gotten.

Honestly what sense would that make after Caleb just threw for 3500 20TDs and 6INTs despite a coaching carousel happening mid season?


I agree with all of that.

Maybe it is just semantics, I wouldn't start camp going "Caleb, Case, and Tyson should all get 1st team reps", I think Caleb should go in as the starter. Just if for some reason, someone else is kicking his ass up and down the field, I don't care if we go with that guy.

Again, I think there is almost no chance that happens. I was really arguing against my perception of the stated belief that Caleb should start even if he can't outperform these guys rather than meaning they should all start out on equal footing in terms of the org or that we should try different QBs and see what happens in real games.
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Re: Bears 12.0 

Post#169 » by fleet » Wed Jun 4, 2025 8:26 pm

nomorezorro wrote:
fleet wrote:IMO he has indicated that he can lead a team. That’s a big one that’s not even universal to “starters”


what on earth could you possibly be basing this on

Things that teammates, coaches, guys like Case Keenam, NFL people say about him? Media talking about his demeanor around the team?
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Re: Bears 12.0 

Post#170 » by fleet » Wed Jun 4, 2025 8:30 pm

nomorezorro wrote:Image

these are tyson bagent's career passing stats.

He came out of jerkwater university ffs off the bench, middle of the year, his rookie season in the middle of a garbage team that was imploding year after year. What on earth are you basing your limited sample size conclusions on?

The deal is that Tyson Bagent has some ability. We still don’t know how much to what degree of development. That’s about it. Making definitive judgement on him is il-informed
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Re: Bears 12.0 

Post#171 » by TheJordanRule » Wed Jun 4, 2025 8:38 pm

fleet wrote:
nomorezorro wrote:Image

these are tyson bagent's career passing stats.

He came out of jerkwater university ffs off the bench, middle of the year, his rookie season in the middle of a garbage team that was imploding year after year. What on earth are you basing your limited sample size conclusions on?


Yes, this is Fleet's key point. The team was imploding, the OL was imploding, and Agent Bagent came thru that demonstrating the ability to make quick reads and get out of harm's way. Which neither starting QB was able to do. I don't think Fleet is saying he's anything more than a diamond in the rough. A good back up QB with potential. That is quite frankly how we all should look at him. We are all Bears fans, are we not, brothers?
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Re: Bears 12.0 

Post#172 » by nomorezorro » Wed Jun 4, 2025 8:50 pm

i haven't made any conclusions about bagent other than it's silly to assert that he can "lead a team" based on 4 emergency starts in which he played adequately for a rookie backup, or to suggest he should get consideration to get any playing time ahead of last year's no. 1 overall pick
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Re: Bears 12.0 

Post#173 » by fleet » Wed Jun 4, 2025 8:57 pm

nomorezorro wrote:i haven't made any conclusions about bagent other than it's silly to assert that he can "lead a team" based on 4 emergency starts in which he played adequately for a rookie backup, or to suggest he should get consideration to get any playing time ahead of last year's no. 1 overall pick

I never said anything other than NFL people indicated he can. You can call them silly if you like.
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Re: Bears 12.0 

Post#174 » by nomorezorro » Wed Jun 4, 2025 9:02 pm

you said that your opinion was that he can lead a team in a way that some starting quarterbacks cannot. maybe you have some direct quotes from "NFL people" saying something to that effect, but i do think it would be a silly thing for them to say about a guy with two years of experience who has started four NFL games and not played particularly well in them
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Re: Bears 12.0 

Post#175 » by Hold That » Wed Jun 4, 2025 9:24 pm

fleet wrote:
nomorezorro wrote:
fleet wrote:IMO he has indicated that he can lead a team. That’s a big one that’s not even universal to “starters”


what on earth could you possibly be basing this on

Things that teammates, coaches, guys like Case Keenam, NFL people say about him? Media talking about his demeanor around the team?

It’s no secret that Baegent is a likable guy and likely a hard worker.

With that said that’s not enough.
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Re: Bears 12.0 

Post#176 » by jnrjr79 » Wed Jun 4, 2025 9:24 pm

dougthonus wrote:
Hold That wrote:Nobody is telling you to be excited. It’s ok to have a wait and see approach.

Even in Baegents two years he’s shown he’s nothing more than a back up at best. There’s absolutely nothing special about his game that tells you he should even be in a competition with Caleb for a starting spot.

Yes Caleb is entitled to start as the #1 pick. And no they aren’t going to throw him in a QB competition with a career journey man in Keenum who’s never proven he can be a starter for 17 games in any season of his career. Not with Baegent who has a career 3 TDs and 6 INTs in the few reps he has gotten.

Honestly what sense would that make after Caleb just threw for 3500 20TDs and 6INTs despite a coaching carousel happening mid season?


I agree with all of that.

Maybe it is just semantics, I wouldn't start camp going "Caleb, Case, and Tyson should all get 1st team reps", I think Caleb should go in as the starter. Just if for some reason, someone else is kicking his ass up and down the field, I don't care if we go with that guy.

Again, I think there is almost no chance that happens. I was really arguing against my perception of the stated belief that Caleb should start even if he can't outperform these guys rather than meaning they should all start out on equal footing in terms of the org or that we should try different QBs and see what happens in real games.


IMO, the problem with this viewpoint is that Caleb turning into a long-term success is a more important goal for the franchise than wins and losses in 2025. So they are obviously going to give Caleb at least the entire season to show what he can do, barring some sort of injury or absolute disaster. If you can make a developmental argument that riding the pine is better for Caleb in the long-term, ok. But whether or not he starts should not be a function of how he performs in training camp or the first few games of the season or whatever.

I agree it's a discouraging sign if he isn't clearly the best QB on the roster, I just don't think you bench him if that's the case.
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Re: Bears 12.0 

Post#177 » by dougthonus » Wed Jun 4, 2025 9:58 pm

jnrjr79 wrote:IMO, the problem with this viewpoint is that Caleb turning into a long-term success is a more important goal for the franchise than wins and losses in 2025. So they are obviously going to give Caleb at least the entire season to show what he can do, barring some sort of injury or absolute disaster. If you can make a developmental argument that riding the pine is better for Caleb in the long-term, ok. But whether or not he starts should not be a function of how he performs in training camp or the first few games of the season or whatever.

I agree it's a discouraging sign if he isn't clearly the best QB on the roster, I just don't think you bench him if that's the case.


If he can't outplay better than Tyson Bagent or Case Keenum, then he's not going to be a success regardless of how much you hope to develop him.
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Re: Bears 12.0 

Post#178 » by jnrjr79 » Wed Jun 4, 2025 10:00 pm

dougthonus wrote:
jnrjr79 wrote:IMO, the problem with this viewpoint is that Caleb turning into a long-term success is a more important goal for the franchise than wins and losses in 2025. So they are obviously going to give Caleb at least the entire season to show what he can do, barring some sort of injury or absolute disaster. If you can make a developmental argument that riding the pine is better for Caleb in the long-term, ok. But whether or not he starts should not be a function of how he performs in training camp or the first few games of the season or whatever.

I agree it's a discouraging sign if he isn't clearly the best QB on the roster, I just don't think you bench him if that's the case.


If he can't outplay better than Tyson Bagent or Case Keenum, then he's not going to be a success regardless of how much you hope to develop him.


I think he can outplay them (and reportedly has been), but even just conceptually, I do not agree with this.
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Re: Bears 12.0 

Post#179 » by dougthonus » Wed Jun 4, 2025 10:06 pm

jnrjr79 wrote:I think he can outplay them (and reportedly has been), but even just conceptually, I do not agree with this.


If it was year 1 or either of the backups were high caliber backups, I would agree with you, so at a macro level, I don't think you are wrong, but in this specific case, I think if he can't outplay these two he is hopeless.

Again, I don't think that's a thing that will happen though (even if he is ultimately lousy, he'd have to be horrifically lousy for this to be true).
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Re: Bears 12.0 

Post#180 » by Dresden » Wed Jun 4, 2025 10:11 pm

I think a few strong points of Bagent: he threw a ton of TD passes in college- an NCAA record or something like that. Against weaker competition, true, but the fact is he's had a ton of experience and in his own words, has seen every defense there is and knows how to attack it. And he showed that when he did have a chance to play. He didn't take all the sacks Fields did, nor did he hold onto the ball forever. He was able to run the offense as it was intended to be run and was fairly good at hitting open receivers.

That's pretty much Brock Purdy's resume as well. Purdy doesn't have a strong arm either, but he gets the job done. Maybe Bagent could be that kind of a QB and have success in the NFL.

All I'm saying is that I hope he gets a shot at showing what he can do, and I"m sure he will in preseason. And if the offense clearly looks better when he's on the field, it wouldn't bother me if they started him in real games. If Caleb can't show he's better, then let him work on things in practice until he can be more effective than Bagent.

I think they've invested too much in the rest of the team to have a bad QB sabotage the whole season. We aren't tanking anymore- we're ready to compete for a playoff spot this year. They owe it to the other 52 guys to go with the best QB on the team.

But as Hold That pointed out, if Bagent really was outplaying Caleb, it would be noticed in practice, and he would start to get more first team reps (or at least I hope he would).

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