Off-Season Fun: When Vince Was Awesome

[StopitLeo]

I remember feeling like Vince was going to do something amazing every game and he basically did.

[brownbobcat]

Look at 15:25 when it's a packed paint in a half-court set and he just sneaks in and dunks it somehow.

He was so effortlessly good. Shame he thought that meant he could be effort-less forever.

[TheGeneral99]

Look at 15:25 when it's a packed paint in a half-court set and he just sneaks in and dunks it somehow.

He was so effortlessly good. Shame he thought that meant he could be effort-less forever.

Yep, one of the most athletically gifted players of all time next to guys like Jordan, Lebron, Dr. J, Dominique, Westbrook etc.

He also had unusually long arms, and is the only person other than MJ standing at 6'5 or so with such massive hands that they could palm the ball like that. People forget that Vince had Kawhi and MJ like hands.

[Westside Gunn]

Look at 15:25 when it's a packed paint in a half-court set and he just sneaks in and dunks it somehow.

He was so effortlessly good. Shame he thought that meant he could be effort-less forever.

I think the players can do this today too - they are athletic af but they choose the safer 40 footer, easier on the legs

[brownbobcat]

Look at 15:25 when it's a packed paint in a half-court set and he just sneaks in and dunks it somehow.

He was so effortlessly good. Shame he thought that meant he could be effort-less forever.

I think the players can do this today too - they are athletic af but they choose the safer 40 footer, easier on the legs

Seal your guy with one arm while catching the ball with the other, then one-dribble baseline well behind the backboard and do a short-loading jump at a perpendicular angle to dunk it? I'm sure there are guys that could do that, but not a lot.

[Kingsway_fan]

Had seasons tickets then... like 15 rows up... it was pure electricity to see him perform. Everyone in the NBA wanted to see Vince.... generational superstar.

[TDGlenmanor]

I remember having to go to work at Pearson food court, T3 back when we were in the 2nd round against Philly. I was a dishwasher and would offer to do the garbage dump to the compressor just so I could walk by the sports store and watch the afternoon playoffs game on the TV they had in a display. Games would be shown on The Score.

The golden era man, GTA in the early 2000's

[CPT]

It seems insane, but I kinda think the VC dunk contest was the best moment to be a Raptor fan outside of the championship season.

[tsherkin]

It seems insane, but I kinda think the VC dunk contest was the best moment to be a Raptor fan outside of the championship season.

It was certainly a highlight. That was Vince at his most aggressive. That Olympics in Sydney, the 2000 season, and then in 2001 when he really started to get nice on that jumper... It was electric stuff. I don't remember another season (let alone two) after that where it was as exciting, until the title year. 07 was nice when we matched that win total, but not as exciting, though I loved watching Anthony Parker go to work. 14-18 were great regular seasons, lots of fun, but not quite as fun because we didn't have anyone like Vince and we knew how the playoffs would go with Demar. 2020 was pretty decent even without Kawhi and 2022 was pretty good.

But yeah, outside of the title season, I think 2000 and 2001 were kind of the apex.

He was an absolute blast to watch back then.

[Basketball_Jones]

Vince’s TS percentage being so low has perplexed me since that stat has been around. Watching him it always felt like the shot was going in. But yeah, fun times and he had an assortment of moves and creativity that I had never seen before. Similar to when Jordan hit the scene early in his career. Which only helped fuel the comparisons at the time.

[tsherkin]

Vince’s TS percentage being so low has perplexed me since that stat has been around. Watching him it always felt like the shot was going in. But yeah, fun times and he had an assortment of moves and creativity that I had never seen before. Similar to when Jordan hit the scene early in his career. Which only helped fuel the comparisons at the time.

Vince posted a 101 TS+ as a rookie, then 104 and 106 over his next two seasons. He was actually quite efficient during those years and was shooting over 40% from 3 as well.

Then he started to have health issues, and his draw rate dipped for a couple seasons as he struggled to get to the rim quite as much. Had some finishing issues inside (dunking less certainly contributing), some consistency issues from 3 while increasing his 3pt volume... and then he was into his 30s and declining, in part because he didn't have a lot else going on any longer.

But for a minute, he was really good. And right after the Nets trade, he popped back up for a little while, too. It's worth remembering he was already 28 by the time we traded him. He ended up having a pretty good career, but he got pretty scared of going to the rim once he started up with the jumper's knee, and he didn't generally have a staggering midrange game. In 07-08, he put together a nice mix of short and mid-range game and a decent (read: average FG%) long 2, but he was still finishing under 60% at the rim. Made him around a +1% rTS guy, especially because that was a down year from 3. We all know the narrative of him falling in love with his jumper, but it was a mix of his knee and age, and it's also worth mentioning that his last couple years with us were some of the slowest, grindiest years in the league.

Would have been really interesting to see him play the bulk of his career from 05 and later, instead of most of his healthiest, most aggressive seasons.

[Basketball_Jones]

One thing to note about Carters lack of finishing later on was that the euro step wasn’t as widely used or at all outside of Ginobili. I kind of feel that was a maneuver he could have used very well to avoid trying to out hop everyone. I mean, lots of things have changed since. Ant Edward’s is probably the best way we can kind of glimpse what Carter could be in this era imo.

[tsherkin]

One thing to note about Carters lack of finishing later on was that the euro step wasn’t as widely used or at all outside of Ginobili. I kind of feel that was a maneuver he could have used very well to avoid trying to out hop everyone. I mean, lots of things have changed since. Ant Edward’s is probably the best way we can kind of glimpse what Carter could be in this era imo.

Yeah, and I mean the game was never slower, so he had less transition opportunities than would appear earlier or later in league history, right?

I don't think the Eurostep was a big thing for him, I think it was just, can you get to the rim? And it was pretty tight in there. And we certainly had awful spacing. In his last two full seasons with us (03 and 04), we didn't have a great time with the 3. Voshon Lenard for 63 games and Rafer Alston for half a season in 03? That was our spacing. Otherwise, it was a mediocre year from Mo Pete and Alvin Williams. And then it was the KO Mistake year. Somehow, we were actually like top 10 in 3P% that year (Vince himself, Donyell Marshall, good year from Mo Pete, the only thing Lamond Murray did well, etc), but it was a year where we played under 87 possessions per game.

Ugly, and not super conducive to flashy 0-3' FG% numbers. At 65.5% the year before (albeit in 43 games), he shot 58.3% in 03-04.

For some context, Kobe shot 60.9%, McGrady shot 58.0%, Ray Allen shot 70.1% (but on 18.1% of 18.2 FGA/g), Pierce shot 56.4%, Baron shot 54.6%, Michael Redd was at 60.2%, rookie Melo managed 54.1% and rookie Lebron managed 60.4%.

So Vince was doing reasonably well when he got close. Not amazing, but certainly not bad. Overall league average was 59.2%, but of course that includes bigs and the like.

More the big deal was that it was the second season of him taking over 32% of his shots as long twos, and getting to the rim under 20% of the time, and we saw his FTr had been dropping off since his third season as he fell more and more in love with that long two (not even the 3, just the long two).