2025 Offseason Season Thread Vol. 1

[MettaWorldPanda]

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Just 5 months ago. CJ has a lot left in the tank. Heat twitter should be talking about him instead of old tired bum ass fit DeRozan.

What’s the thought here? Wiggins for CJ to clear the books further for 2026? I’ll take it

The simple deal right now is Rozier and JJJ cause we are going to have to pay an asset to get off Rozier and the money matches to the dollar. I mentioned previously that the Pels are a great reclamation spot for Rozier with his old Hornets coach James Borrego on that staff who seemed to get the most of anyone out of Rozier due to his system. I also wouldn’t mind a variation of Wiggins in this deal with Herb Jones coming back.

[oreon]

Siakam is being spoon fed by a top 5 if not top 3 playmaker in the league. 76% of his baskets are being assisted on right now, I can not reiterate enough how a high level playmaker would make this team and our players FAR better.

Our biggest needs are easily a high level playmaker and a true 1st option, in a perfect world we’d get that all in 1 player

He's not Gobert. He's not being spoon fed every basket. In their system they get a ton of easy baskets because of their pace and Haliburton. But also when their offense breaks down, he's their go to guy. They'll set an iso on the left wing and he'll post up to get a paint bucket or a fade away mid range jump. Siakam can consistently win one on one match ups. Siakam can consistently punish smaller guards. Siakam is a more skilled and better player than Bam
This is the value of a true 1 and 2 option. When offense dies, can we trust you to carry the offense for a 3-5 min stretch. Can you take over for a game. And for the no 1 guys, can you win 2 games in a series by yourself.
I am not looking at Bam, as someone I trust to carry the offense for a stretch when the team is in a funk. For the play in and the playoffs, Davion Mitchell has been more that guy than Bam has.

What’s funny is you all have seen bam do that several times in the playoffs lol and yes Siakam scores for them at times in iso situations but he has been an average at best isolation player these playoffs in the 33rd percentile so that statement doesn’t hold as much weight as your giving it.

Yes Siakam is skilled and he’s not Gobert but he is being assisted on 76% of his baskets; that is insanely high. That’s a literal fact.

What holds weight is results. He's won as a no 2. He's two time all nba guy. There's enough to show he can be that 2nd guy, cuz he has been. I am okay giving him 50 mil
But I can't give a dude 50 mil, then say we need 2 better players than him on the roster to win. Thats been the story of the Jimmy era. We can all go back through the reads. And pretty much everyone has said we need to get Jimmy a 2nd star so he can win. What has changed from then till now to make me believe Bam can step into that 2nd option role. Not much. Till he shows he can be an all nba guy and proven consistent go to guy on offense, I am not willing to pay him 50 mil a season.
3 max salaries in this league doesn't really work because now you need depth.

[HeatFanLifer]

Saying Bam is overpaid is whatever but it’s mainly based on a bad start to last season where he ended up getting back to his normal self the last 40 or 50 games, I’d expect him to be much better next year and bounce back. You absolutely pay $50M (28%-30% of the cap) a year to a guy who has proven he can be the 2nd best player on a team fighting for a championship not once, not twice, but 3 times now (shoutout to LeBrons introduction) who could potentially be a champion right now if not due to injuries to himself and Dragic in 2020 and Jimmy in 2022 and 2023 or just had a better supporting cast in 2023.

Call me a Bam homer/stan or whatever but he earned his payday and that’s just the simple truth. There’s more to basketball than scoring points and he does that at a respectable rate in addition to the countless other things he brings.

IMO, if Bam was on a team with a true top five guy you 100% pay Bam that 50 million. On a team like the Heat though, he is not a player to build around. He is a player you bring to an already built team. The Heat aren’t going to find a top 5 guy unless they draft him and with Bam they will be treadmilling that 8-10 seed indefinitely. Plus Bam is not a premier enough player to lure other talent.

Bam had Dame wanting to come to Miami, Donovan Mitchell as well who said he thought he was being traded to the Heat which was his reasoning for playing in all the Miami pro am games with Bam that summer. Bam is very well liked around the league, he can’t make the front office get it done though

Ok fair point on Mitchell. This would be a completely different team with Mitchell.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Harping on Bam and Herro all while 70 million of our cap space is being absolutely wasted is some real dirty work the front office has put those two guys under.

[greg4012]

He's not Gobert. He's not being spoon fed every basket. In their system they get a ton of easy baskets because of their pace and Haliburton. But also when their offense breaks down, he's their go to guy. They'll set an iso on the left wing and he'll post up to get a paint bucket or a fade away mid range jump. Siakam can consistently win one on one match ups. Siakam can consistently punish smaller guards. Siakam is a more skilled and better player than Bam
This is the value of a true 1 and 2 option. When offense dies, can we trust you to carry the offense for a 3-5 min stretch. Can you take over for a game. And for the no 1 guys, can you win 2 games in a series by yourself.
I am not looking at Bam, as someone I trust to carry the offense for a stretch when the team is in a funk. For the play in and the playoffs, Davion Mitchell has been more that guy than Bam has.

What’s funny is you all have seen bam do that several times in the playoffs lol and yes Siakam scores for them at times in iso situations but he has been an average at best isolation player these playoffs in the 33rd percentile so that statement doesn’t hold as much weight as your giving it.

Yes Siakam is skilled and he’s not Gobert but he is being assisted on 76% of his baskets; that is insanely high. That’s a literal fact.

What holds weight is results. He's won as a no 2. He's two time all nba guy. There's enough to show he can be that 2nd guy, cuz he has been. I am okay giving him 50 mil
But I can't give a dude 50 mil, then say we need 2 better players than him on the roster to win. Thats been the story of the Jimmy era. We can all go back through the reads. And pretty much everyone has said we need to get Jimmy a 2nd star so he can win. What has changed from then till now to make me believe Bam can step into that 2nd option role. Not much. Till he shows he can be an all nba guy and proven consistent go to guy on offense, I am not willing to pay him 50 mil a season.
3 max salaries in this league doesn't really work because now you need depth.

The good news is you aren't paying him a dime.

I agree 3 max salaries isn't usually the best approach, which is why the prospect of paying Herro a max is tenuous.

Regardless, let's normalize percentage of salary cap discussion rather than scary numbers that lack context. The max that different players can be paid in different circumstances varies greatly.

Broad strokes are good for casual discussion, but if people are getting into the details on here, then let's fully embrace the details and have nuanced discussion. If not, it'll just be recycling the same surface level narratives over and over again.

[MettaWorldPanda]

CJ McCollum and Kelly Olynyk. Takes care of two issues in the backcourt and front court all while both are expiring contracts. Those two vets would make huge contributions to this group. Would be great to have Kelly O back in this lockerroom as a backup Center.

[MettaWorldPanda]

What’s funny is you all have seen bam do that several times in the playoffs lol and yes Siakam scores for them at times in iso situations but he has been an average at best isolation player these playoffs in the 33rd percentile so that statement doesn’t hold as much weight as your giving it.

Yes Siakam is skilled and he’s not Gobert but he is being assisted on 76% of his baskets; that is insanely high. That’s a literal fact.

What holds weight is results. He's won as a no 2. He's two time all nba guy. There's enough to show he can be that 2nd guy, cuz he has been. I am okay giving him 50 mil
But I can't give a dude 50 mil, then say we need 2 better players than him on the roster to win. Thats been the story of the Jimmy era. We can all go back through the reads. And pretty much everyone has said we need to get Jimmy a 2nd star so he can win. What has changed from then till now to make me believe Bam can step into that 2nd option role. Not much. Till he shows he can be an all nba guy and proven consistent go to guy on offense, I am not willing to pay him 50 mil a season.
3 max salaries in this league doesn't really work because now you need depth.

The good news is you aren't paying him a dime.

I agree 3 max salaries isn't usually the best approach, which is why the prospect of paying Herro a max is tenuous.

Regardless, let's normalize percentage of salary cap discussion rather than scary numbers that lack context. The max that different players can be paid in different circumstances varies greatly.

Broad strokes are good for casual discussion, but if people are getting into the details on here, then let's fully embrace the details and have nuanced discussion. If not, it'll just be recycling the same surface level narratives over and over again.

I'm glad you brought this up. The Max might say max but Herro's max compared to some of the super max's around the league when his deal kicks in is going to be 25-30 million less lol. Basically his contract in terms of the cap percentage is only going to be about 5% more. Herro is certainly worth what he's getting paid today.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

He's not Gobert. He's not being spoon fed every basket. In their system they get a ton of easy baskets because of their pace and Haliburton. But also when their offense breaks down, he's their go to guy. They'll set an iso on the left wing and he'll post up to get a paint bucket or a fade away mid range jump. Siakam can consistently win one on one match ups. Siakam can consistently punish smaller guards. Siakam is a more skilled and better player than Bam
This is the value of a true 1 and 2 option. When offense dies, can we trust you to carry the offense for a 3-5 min stretch. Can you take over for a game. And for the no 1 guys, can you win 2 games in a series by yourself.
I am not looking at Bam, as someone I trust to carry the offense for a stretch when the team is in a funk. For the play in and the playoffs, Davion Mitchell has been more that guy than Bam has.

What’s funny is you all have seen bam do that several times in the playoffs lol and yes Siakam scores for them at times in iso situations but he has been an average at best isolation player these playoffs in the 33rd percentile so that statement doesn’t hold as much weight as your giving it.

Yes Siakam is skilled and he’s not Gobert but he is being assisted on 76% of his baskets; that is insanely high. That’s a literal fact.

What holds weight is results. He's won as a no 2. He's two time all nba guy. There's enough to show he can be that 2nd guy, cuz he has been. I am okay giving him 50 mil
But I can't give a dude 50 mil, then say we need 2 better players than him on the roster to win. Thats been the story of the Jimmy era. We can all go back through the reads. And pretty much everyone has said we need to get Jimmy a 2nd star so he can win. What has changed from then till now to make me believe Bam can step into that 2nd option role. Not much. Till he shows he can be an all nba guy and proven consistent go to guy on offense, I am not willing to pay him 50 mil a season.
3 max salaries in this league doesn't really work because now you need depth.

2nd best player and 2nd option are 2 different things but Bams gotten done almost in both roles on teams in which no one expected to get there. Yes Siakam got it done next to Kawhi due to KD tearing his Achilles, Klay tearing his ACL, and Cousins tearing his quad but hey, injuries are part of the game as we’re seeing again this postseason and as we saw last. Expect the unexpected. Lowry was better than Siakam by the way, Siakam was their 3rd best player.

I don’t hold too much weight in all nba selections determining if a guy can be a number 2 on a championship team. A lot of the times they’re popularity contest or who was the healthiest player for the year. Evan Mobley got 2nd team this year averaging 18-9-3, that’s a down year for Bam and Mobley doesn’t have near the postseason success Bam does. Same for Towns, he’s all nba multiple times but is a massive liability in the playoffs because of his defense. Jamal Murray has never been all nba but he’s won it all as the 2nd guy.

You all have seen Bam do these things. He has the massive playoff performances when we’ve needed them most. Then defensively he’s completely erased elite players from games when needed to help us secure big wins. You all have seen this stuff countless times, idk why we ignore it. None of these guys we give clout to because they won some end of season awards have done what he has done. They’re all apparently better than him though.

[greg4012]

Saying Bam is overpaid is whatever but it’s mainly based on a bad start to last season where he ended up getting back to his normal self the last 40 or 50 games, I’d expect him to be much better next year and bounce back. You absolutely pay $50M (28%-30% of the cap) a year to a guy who has proven he can be the 2nd best player on a team fighting for a championship not once, not twice, but 3 times now (shoutout to LeBrons introduction) who could potentially be a champion right now if not due to injuries to himself and Dragic in 2020 and Jimmy in 2022 and 2023 or just had a better supporting cast in 2023.

Call me a Bam homer/stan or whatever but he earned his payday and that’s just the simple truth. There’s more to basketball than scoring points and he does that at a respectable rate in addition to the countless other things he brings.

IMO, if Bam was on a team with a true top five guy you 100% pay Bam that 50 million. On a team like the Heat though, he is not a player to build around. He is a player you bring to an already built team. The Heat aren’t going to find a top 5 guy unless they draft him and with Bam they will be treadmilling that 8-10 seed indefinitely. Plus Bam is not a premier enough player to lure other talent.

Fair & reasonable perspective. I'm still in the camp that doesn't believe your second to last sentence is as absolute as you make it out to be and doesn't at all believe that your last sentence is accurate. Miami has lured plenty of talent, they just haven't had the draft capital and have been dragged down by bad contracts, so not able to close on opportunities for interested talent. Part of that is the new CBA killing free agency. But, it's the reality that Miami has to operate in.

I still have eyes set on 2026 offseason as the fork in the road. Given Miami's payroll moving forward, that's the natural point for a new roster construction one way or another. If Miami is not able to pull off a big trade or free agency signing by that offseason, then it really does seem to make the most sense to explore a complete roster overhaul and trade players for assets. My reasonable expectation is that both Bam and Herro can enhance their perceived value around the league over the next season. Trade high (if that's where the cards fall).

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[3ammy3uck3ts]

There seems to be confusion on what’s a 2nd option compared to a 2nd best player. Siakam was the Raptors 2nd option on the championship team sure, but Lowry was 100% their 2nd best and 2nd most important player. Higher PPG doesn’t = being the better player.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

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[greg4012]

There seems to be confusion on what’s a 2nd option compared to a 2nd best player. Siakam was the Raptors 2nd option on the championship team sure, but Lowry was 100% their 2nd best and 2nd most important player. Higher PPG doesn’t = being the better player.

They were basically on similar footing for that championship. Lowry controlled the floor and did all the little things to gain advantage throughout that playoff run. Lowry with 15 ppg and 6.6 apg thru the playoffs (at least 28.2 ppg created). Siakam with 19 ppg and 3 apg thru the playoffs (at least 25 ppg created). Lowry actually had a higher DBPM in the playoffs.

I'd give the slight nod to Lowry in overall impact considering the extent to which he controlled the floor on both ends.

[MartyCONLONNN]

Durant is not interested in Miami. this is from a “source” who’s a pro athlete trainer/coach down here that i grew up with & made connections with the Wades & LBJ from Gulliver Prep. let me know LBJ was leaving & that Wade was prepping for “Last Dance” when he still had not announced if he was coming back for 1 last szn. hes not very plugged in at all but he gets a couple interesting pieces from Heat guys every now and then. I’ve posted about him a couple times over the years but just grain of salt.. i think it’s interesting he told me over the weekend and this week it’s been nonstop momentum for other teams in reports.

Wouldn’t surprise me at all. Did he give any info on guys we may be interested in or just briefly mention the KD thing?

I wish lol he's barely shared anything in like the 14 years he's had connections with pro athletes. mostly just sh*t you hear while just chopping it up. He's in with all the proam runs too and that's where he hears cool things but nothing worth sharing. I will say hes mentioned Derozan wanting to play here LMAO but that was 5 years ago and is now annoyingly common knowledge lol.

With this KD stuff, 2 prominent Heat dudes present + the general idea of the conversation is KD loves Bam/Spo but wouldn't play his last years as being the only reliable playoff scorer on a team. Sounded like a shot at Tyler to me or at least that KD doesn't believe that Herro is at a contender's level to be a 2nd guy - That's just MY interpretation of it & maybe if they make another move for a scorer things could change.

I really like the San Antonio fit for KD tbh. Houston & NYC too volatile, Dallas doesnt work with Flagg. Minny is the other no drama basketball fit but not sure he wants to end his career in Minny. Feels like an obscure ending.

[MettaWorldPanda]

The more I look at it the more I see the Spurs just getting the Durant deal done. If they draft Harper they really don't have any use for Vassell anymore. Barnes is an expiring contract. They can also help out the Suns by eating the rest of the 9 million in salary helping them further get away from the tax. Suns also get the 14th pick in this draft which should help them get a Center or a PG. Popovich loves Kevin Durant from what I've been researching. Wemby also calls him his inspiration. Barnes, Vassell, and 14th pick and possibly another asset or two looks to be the leader on the clubhouse.

[oreon]

There seems to be confusion on what’s a 2nd option compared to a 2nd best player. Siakam was the Raptors 2nd option on the championship team sure, but Lowry was 100% their 2nd best and 2nd most important player. Higher PPG doesn’t = being the better player.

They were basically on similar footing for that championship. Lowry controlled the floor and did all the little things to gain advantage throughout that playoff run. Lowry with 15 ppg and 6.6 apg thru the playoffs (at least 28.2 ppg created). Siakam with 19 ppg and 3 apg thru the playoffs (at least 25 ppg created). Lowry actually had a higher DBPM in the playoffs.

I'd give the slight nod to Lowry in overall impact considering the extent to which he controlled the floor on both ends.

lol Listen to any neutral NBA analyst and they all had Siakam as the 2nd best player on that roster. You can't change stuff to fit narratives

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Durant is not interested in Miami. this is from a “source” who’s a pro athlete trainer/coach down here that i grew up with & made connections with the Wades & LBJ from Gulliver Prep. let me know LBJ was leaving & that Wade was prepping for “Last Dance” when he still had not announced if he was coming back for 1 last szn. hes not very plugged in at all but he gets a couple interesting pieces from Heat guys every now and then. I’ve posted about him a couple times over the years but just grain of salt.. i think it’s interesting he told me over the weekend and this week it’s been nonstop momentum for other teams in reports.

Wouldn’t surprise me at all. Did he give any info on guys we may be interested in or just briefly mention the KD thing?

I wish lol he's barely shared anything in like the 14 years he's had connections with pro athletes. mostly just sh*t you hear while just chopping it up. He's in with all the proam runs too and that's where he hears cool things but nothing worth sharing. I will say hes mentioned Derozan wanting to play here LMAO but that was 5 years ago and is now annoyingly common knowledge lol.

With this KD stuff, 2 prominent Heat dudes present + the general idea of the conversation is KD loves Bam/Spo but wouldn't play his last years as being the only reliable playoff scorer on a team. Sounded like a shot at Tyler to me or at least that KD doesn't believe that Herro is at a contender's level to be a 2nd guy - That's just MY interpretation of it & maybe if they make another move for a scorer things could change.

I really like the San Antonio fit for KD tbh. Houston & NYC too volatile, Dallas doesnt work with Flagg. Minny is the other no drama basketball fit but not sure he wants to end his career in Minny. Feels like an obscure ending.

Definitely looking forward to seeing how this offseason played out based on all the reports of it being potentially the wildest we’ve seen. That Tatum injury is going to have a massive ripple effect on teams views of their chances in the East

[oreon]

Wouldn’t surprise me at all. Did he give any info on guys we may be interested in or just briefly mention the KD thing?

I wish lol he's barely shared anything in like the 14 years he's had connections with pro athletes. mostly just sh*t you hear while just chopping it up. He's in with all the proam runs too and that's where he hears cool things but nothing worth sharing. I will say hes mentioned Derozan wanting to play here LMAO but that was 5 years ago and is now annoyingly common knowledge lol.

With this KD stuff, 2 prominent Heat dudes present + the general idea of the conversation is KD loves Bam/Spo but wouldn't play his last years as being the only reliable playoff scorer on a team. Sounded like a shot at Tyler to me or at least that KD doesn't believe that Herro is at a contender's level to be a 2nd guy - That's just MY interpretation of it & maybe if they make another move for a scorer things could change.

I really like the San Antonio fit for KD tbh. Houston & NYC too volatile, Dallas doesnt work with Flagg. Minny is the other no drama basketball fit but not sure he wants to end his career in Minny. Feels like an obscure ending.

Definitely looking forward to seeing how this offseason played out based on all the reports of it being potentially the wildest we’ve seen. That Tatum injury is going to have a massive ripple effect on teams views of their chances in the East

I've heard this before and that much doesn't happen. It all depends on Giannis. If he asks out then that could open the floodgates for other moves to happen. But weirdly the Giannis stuff has died down. He had his meeting with FO and we've heard nothing coming out of it. I was 65 % sure he'd ask out. But now I'm 50/50. Giannis could be like Dirk just super loyal. If nothing breaks once the finals are over, I think he stays

[greg4012]

There seems to be confusion on what’s a 2nd option compared to a 2nd best player. Siakam was the Raptors 2nd option on the championship team sure, but Lowry was 100% their 2nd best and 2nd most important player. Higher PPG doesn’t = being the better player.

They were basically on similar footing for that championship. Lowry controlled the floor and did all the little things to gain advantage throughout that playoff run. Lowry with 15 ppg and 6.6 apg thru the playoffs (at least 28.2 ppg created). Siakam with 19 ppg and 3 apg thru the playoffs (at least 25 ppg created). Lowry actually had a higher DBPM in the playoffs.

I'd give the slight nod to Lowry in overall impact considering the extent to which he controlled the floor on both ends.

lol Listen to any neutral NBA analyst and they all had Siakam as the 2nd best player on that roster. You can't change stuff to fit narratives

I promise I'm not changing any stuff. I just don't subordinate my NBA watching experience and analysis to talking heads trying to prop up narratives and get views and clicks. There is a reason that Toronto fans universally call Kyle Lowry their GROAT (Greatest Raptor Of All Time). Why don't you go ask them the pecking order of impact in that playoff run? Or should they be dismissed as well for the likes of Kendrick Perkins and Reggie Miller?

[oreon]

They were basically on similar footing for that championship. Lowry controlled the floor and did all the little things to gain advantage throughout that playoff run. Lowry with 15 ppg and 6.6 apg thru the playoffs (at least 28.2 ppg created). Siakam with 19 ppg and 3 apg thru the playoffs (at least 25 ppg created). Lowry actually had a higher DBPM in the playoffs.

I'd give the slight nod to Lowry in overall impact considering the extent to which he controlled the floor on both ends.

lol Listen to any neutral NBA analyst and they all had Siakam as the 2nd best player on that roster. You can't change stuff to fit narratives

I promise I'm not changing any stuff. I just don't subordinate my NBA watching experience and analysis to talking heads trying to prop up narratives and get views and clicks. There is a reason that Toronto fans universally call Kyle Lowry their GROAT (Greatest Raptor Of All Time). Why don't you go ask them the pecking order of impact in that playoff run? Or should they be dismissed as well for the likes of Kendrick Perkins and Reggie Miller?

I don't consider Perkins or Miller analysts. The guys on TV are entertainers. I am talking about the podcast guys like Zach Lowe.

[wade44]

The more I look at it the more I see the Spurs just getting the Durant deal done. If they draft Harper they really don't have any use for Vassell anymore. Barnes is an expiring contract. They can also help out the Suns by eating the rest of the 9 million in salary helping them further get away from the tax. Suns also get the 14th pick in this draft which should help them get a Center or a PG. Popovich loves Kevin Durant from what I've been researching. Wemby also calls him his inspiration. Barnes, Vassell, and 14th pick and possibly another asset or two looks to be the leader on the clubhouse.

Let’s get real any team that wants KD will have a way easier time than the Heat at acquiring him. It’s seems we as fans don’t see how bad of a situation we are asset wise. Other teams avoid adding Heat or former Heat players now more than ever seemingly